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08/22/2004 01:15 PM ID: 42298 Permalink   

16-Year-Old Iranian Girl Hanged For Being A Rape Victim

 

A young girl who was accused of "moral corruption" (premarital sex) as a result of being raped was executed by hanging in Iran on Sunday the 16th.

When the girl told the judge that he should "punish the perpetrators of moral corruption, not the victims", the judge used his power to push (beyond normal procedures) for the 16-year-old's execution.

When asked, judge Haji Rezaii, a fundamentalist Muslim, said that he executed the girl for her "sharp tongue".

 
  Source: www.iranfocus.com  
    WebReporter: Yare Show Calling Card      
  Recommendation:  
ASSESS this news: BLOCK this news. Reason:
   
  150 Comments
  
  Ban Religeon  
 
Not needed. All it does is cause prejudice and war. Maybe people can stop believing in a comforting lie, and work towards 'immortality' through science.
 
  by: EeekiE   08/22/2004 03:00 PM     
  this  
 
judge Haji Rezaii should be hanged for the murder of this girl,imagine the buzz he got the evil b@astard.
 
  by: sholoto   08/22/2004 03:11 PM     
  makes you wanna barf doesn't it  
 
makes you wanna barf doesn't it ..this sort of injustice. However before we all start droppin more bombs on muslims (this sort of news story makes them easier to kill ...don't you think ) Remember that George W Bush also fries mental retards , women and minors ...I understand that these are usually not the victims of the crimes and no way would I ever try to defend this sort of action it's just that the wording in this article seems very anti muslim and "arent they just a bunch of savages" sort of vibe ...you know what I mean . All in all these are fundamentalist muslims and do not represent the muslim world ...I'm sure they read about child abuse in the catholic church or whatever and think the same .

To sum up this is wrong and we still have a lot of house cleaning to do before we are in any position to throwing stones ...sort of strange timing now that Iran seems to have nukes and is on the USA's axis of evil list ........
 
  by: rory182     08/22/2004 04:38 PM     
  I'm with EeekiE  
 
Religion should be banned. Not only does it cause war and all of the previously mentioned... But we're far too intelligent to be believing in these rediculous myths. It's time to get less religious and more realistic and look to the things that really matter here and now.

As for Haji Rezaii... It's the kind of crap I've come to expect from Arab Nations. I'm surprised that the rapist wasn't rewarded in some way or another (other than getting off scott free).

We 'all' know the way they treat and how their system views women... And no amount of denial by Arab groups looking for tolerance will change the fact that this kind of thing happens.
 
  by: madmagickdotnet   08/22/2004 04:41 PM     
  rory182  
 
>> To sum up this is wrong and we still have a lot of house cleaning to do before we are in any position to throwing stones ...sort of strange timing now that Iran seems to have nukes and is on the USA's axis of evil list ........ <<

I can throw stones all I wish on this one. I take no responsibility for what the USA has done (and would have done with/out my consent), and I sure as * haven't raped anyone. In fact... I'd be a little sickened if someone didn't 'verbally' or at least in thought 'throw stones' about this kind of thing...

And really... In Iran and other countries in that region -- It's not fundie Muslims doing this. The widespread abuse of Muslim women has long been documented and reported on. Denial is like turning your head while the rape is happening, not giving a damn or what not.
 
  by: madmagickdotnet   08/22/2004 04:46 PM     
  religion.....  
 
the biggest obstacle of human civilisation, and yet so many dumb asses are willing to keep this lie alive..........
 
  by: BC     08/22/2004 05:29 PM     
  ok...  
 
[deleted by cc for saying all members of a particular religion should be dead]
 
  by: Venomi   08/22/2004 06:11 PM     
  It's not religion  
 
It's the people that use religion as a way to take power. That's what it all comes down to. It's seen time and time again, people distorting religion and twisting it to suit their own needs and egos. Even this so-called-judge admits to executing this girl for her sharp tongue. She back-talked him and he killed her for it. This is why there must always be a separation of church and state, to keep nut cases like the ones running Iran's government from using religion suit their political needs. Don't blame religion because of the bastards that are distorting it and the half-wits blindly following.
 
  by: RomJeremy   08/22/2004 06:14 PM     
  agree with Rom  
 
Not all religions condone this type of thing and you don't see this happening in all Muslim countries either.
I'll take what Rom said a little further-people use religion to enforce their prejudices. Things have been done in the names of various religions that were unjust and despicable. But its the people who are at fault, not the religions. I'm an agnostic BTW but I see people using religion to feed starving people too besides executing people. And how the hell would a free society ban it?
 
  by: JFURY     08/22/2004 06:21 PM     
  .....  
 
"Muslim law states that a rape victim must have 4 male Muslim witnesses to verify her story -otherwise it is considered adultery"

actually it must have 4 witnesses to verify adultery
 
  by: DX   08/22/2004 06:32 PM     
  women as humans  
 
not in Muslim countryes. Always been so but why the hell it continues? Honor is a reason to kill a girl/woman. Being a rape victim is a reason to kill a girl/woman. "must have 4 male Muslim witnesses to verify her story" Is that fair? Even the law is not fair. And worst is the Sharia law. It makes my blood boil to read how innocent victims are treated like this!!! Rape victim IS the victim. No question in that. And death sentence because of that? Hanged in public? God Damn! Too much... This world has too much wrong things... This Is Not The Middle Ages? You don't hang people in public!!! GRAAAHH!!!
 
  by: Venomi   08/22/2004 06:47 PM     
  Hanging in public  
 
Is a good deterrent for crimes. Unfortunately this girl did not commit a crime, she was a victim of crime and a victim of religious law. It's hard for me to judge a religion since I'm not of one, but religion certainly judges us. We (the western world) aren't in the middle ages, but the mid-east most certainly is. This goes to show just how different our think is from our Mid-east brothers. I just don't see any way to help the gross human rights violations without turning the whole muslim world against us. [personal comment deleted] =p
 
  by: Magnus   08/22/2004 07:21 PM     
  Errors? and sources past West Palm Beach, FL??  
 
The big problem with religion is that a lot of people blindly follow it.

This causes a problem because some people use religion to backup their unethical decisions in the same way legal 'loopholes' are used. (Both can be attributed as typical governmental behaviour in a lot of countries)

Of course, killing someone because they verbally defend their innocence is totally unacceptable and the judge himself deserves to be killed.

Now.. here's my big issue, firstly the source site is hosted in West Palm Beach, FL. - It doesn't mention any sources for the story. I'm not sure whether to interpret it as raw facts, misrepresentation of the facts or just propaganda due to the iran-axis-of-evil news and reports.

Also, if it's true that four witnesses are required to charge on adultery.. then why would the poster post it the wrong way around? - Where did this misrepresentation of their law come from.. was it the article-poster or was it a source he referred to?
 
  by: method_uk   08/22/2004 08:32 PM     
  I am correct.  
 
As always.

"The rape victim then has to prove that she really was raped. In case the man - which is very likely - denies that he has raped the woman, the woman has to name four male witnesses to prove the rape. In case the woman does not find these four male witnesses - which again is very likely - she will be charged with slander.

For the crime of slander, shari'ah prescribes a punishment of 80 lashes. On top of that, the woman will be charged with adultery, and is thus threatened with the death penalty, if she is married. In case, she is unmarried, the "adultery" counts as immoral behaviour and is punished with 100 lashes."

http://www.steinigung.org/...
 
  by: Yare     08/22/2004 09:23 PM     
  This is a people thing  
 
The country is not like america, people can die for talking against a priest or spilling milk on the floor,

The country is not a free one like america

I think both man and woman are effected by there evil, as this makes me sick

The girl was hang for her touge and not being rape, but My god ; it must be frustating not to tell the truth.

But the report did state this is beyond normal procedures,(I wonder whats normal)

True in america you could go to jail for missuse of your touge, but you will never be hanged.

I think this is a crime against the whole human race and not just woman
 
  by: opcode   08/22/2004 11:43 PM     
  hm  
 
doesn't it take 4 witnesses to charge a woman with adultery?
 
  by: karnoir   08/22/2004 11:47 PM     
  EDITED and about Florida...  
 
I deleted the stuff about Islamic law because the source article makes no mention of it. As far as the source being in Florida, its run by Iranian exiles so who knows how accurate the facts are in this story.
 
  by: JFURY     08/22/2004 11:56 PM     
  Any Islamic scholars here?  
 
Is it true that for her ultimate protection in court, a raped girl should be careful to have the experience in public? She must be careful to get raped, not by a gang, but by one rapist and four 'uninvolved spectators'?
Can any Islamic scholar point to ANY HINT of grace, justice, mercy, or anything that edifies which is connected to Islam?
 
  by: Luhker     08/23/2004 12:45 AM     
  well..  
 
the hanging of a rape victim is truly sickening and i dont think that islam condones the judges actions but . im no where close to an islamic scholar but i know a site where u can ask some scholars questions.

i did a search ( http://www.islam.tc/... ) (btw the site is http://www.askimam.com) and heres the result.
The question is (i fixed some spelling errors):
'If a young girl is raped before she is baligh 1) is she held responsible? 2) has she lost her virginity? 3)what is the best she can do to ask forgiveness from allah?'

and the answer:
'We do not know the circumstances surrounding the unfortunate incident of the girl being raped and therefore our response is based on a general situation.

If the girl is raped, she has become a victim and is not responsible. However, every person should seek the forgiveness of Allah as much as possible.

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Mufti Ebrahim Desai'
 
  by: ddrz2k3   08/23/2004 03:45 AM     
  suuuuure  
 
they did, how convenient that when the US and UK are pumping the world with propaganda about Iran's so-called WMD and "links" to terrorism, that this bit of "news" comes out demonising them in the essense of "look how evil these people are, lets invade." All these news stories about such things is for western consumption, and the sad thing is people still haven't learnt to be skeptical of the news conveniently demonizing ones enemies. If such a story is about the US in other countries circuilated around (like AlJazeera articles and news pieces), would you be happy about it?? if you were an American. No need to answer that, its been said that Al Jazeera is an Arab propaganda machine, which makes my point. Why trust a source like this one, if the US wishes to start a war with Iran same way they did in Iraq. Its just like false flag operations, do something and leave a trail of evidence pointing to another party. This is possibly a group of puppets and people (a minority i supose) working to tarnish Iran's image and make them appear barbaric and justify Invasion er, i meant "Liberation".

Besides religion has nothing to do with it, its human nature that is flawed. If you are not a religious type person, and you say things like "Religion should be banned" or "Religion is the root of the problem", then you don't know squat about human nature. Human nature is flawed, humanity is capable of great deeds or great evils. Religion doesn't condone such things, only people twist things around to get their way.

So its simple to me, this is just propaganda to justify yet another war, and for the most part, it seems more likely as the people are pacified yet again by the propaganda machine.
 
  by: DuncanHole   08/23/2004 05:23 AM     
  [deleted by cc]  
 
[deleted by cc-personal comments against those who make personal comments will not be tolerated either]
 
  by: Whipd+Kreem     08/23/2004 09:05 AM     
  [deleted by cc for personal comments]  
 
[deleted by cc for personal comments]
 
  by: Yare     08/23/2004 09:35 AM     
  Bad Mix  
 
Religion & Law does not work together
It causes oppression amongst the citizens of that country and when people are depressed their is a rise in crime(rape-murder-theft-etc.)
The girl was a victim of not only physical rape but a rape of that countries civil rights.
She was put to death for exercising her civil rights.
but a rape
 
  by: cavador   08/23/2004 12:05 PM     
  Who are we  
 
To go around deciding how other countries are run and who runs them?

How many people have been executed under Bush' orders, that were innocent but had thier executions rushed/brought forward? Hmm.
 
  by: Whipd+Kreem     08/23/2004 12:28 PM     
  Islam worships a ruthless god, not God  
 
I remember the opening of Kor'an:
beheadings
hearts cut open
smitings
slaughter.
God, on the contrary, always teaches compassion and kindness.
 
  by: kremens     08/23/2004 12:39 PM     
  Er  
 
Actually, Christianity, Islam, and Judaism all believe in the same god, just in differen ways. The Jews still believe the messiah hasnt come, while we Christians are waiting for the second coming.

Each religion is as bad as each other, and all three are used and twisted in so many ways, that some people use religion to justify killing people.
 
  by: Whipd+Kreem     08/23/2004 12:51 PM     
  @kremens  
 
I don’t pretend to be a bible expert or anything but I thought it was full of violence.

- God drowning everyone and everything on earth. <noahs ark>
- God annihilating Sodom and Gomorrah
- The plagues that Moses bought down
- Jesus kicking the money lenders asses

???
 
  by: koultunami     08/23/2004 01:55 PM     
  Reality Check  
 
There is no God, no true religion. These were just explanations that satisfied older generations, that were blind to the obvious truth. This is it. This is truth, there's nothing more. The sooner people realise this, and ditch the old ways, the sooner we can advance. Why throw your life away, counting on an afterlife. Why not try and stop death.

Being religious is comforting, I was brought up religious. It's a nice thought 'knowing' your not going to cease to exist. It gets you nowhere. I'd sooner get into science, look into DNA and find out why we die of old age, and perfect myself in this life.
 
  by: EeekiE   08/23/2004 02:03 PM     
  Atheists, Muslims...  
 
We're commenting on religions, and not whether God exists. However, there must be God the Merciful, the Kind Being, for without him, the DNA, or the asteroid theory do not provide for the morals and good will. The atheistic realm -- the universities, the academia, the enlightened are hardly the authority on morality. The history has proven that whenever a cause is to be fought, the atheists resort to the same tactics that the murderous religions have used. Hence, no good to humanity from Godlessness.
"God drowning everyone and everything on earth. <noahs ark>,God annihilating Sodom and Gomorrah, The plagues that Moses bought down," --God did these, not a man or a Muslim beheader in the name of God. God does whatever he wants (Remember "God is dead,--Nietzsche" and :Nietzsche is dead, God." --?)

"Jesus kicking the money lenders asses"-- Jesus is not God but someone who succumbed to the Jerusalem syndrome ;-)

 
  by: kremens     08/23/2004 02:40 PM     
  re: kremlin - Ever read the Bible?  
 
It's every bit as bad. The only difference between our society/religion and theirs, is that they follow Islamic law (which is reprehensible). There are two factions, Sunni and Shite. The Shite only believe what Mohammad wrote, which was actual logical and generally compassionate, hence they are moderates and support the West (generally). However, the Sunni's also believe some three other "caliphs", and the stuff they wrote. These guys were basically evil, women-hating hardline pieces of human sh*t. Thus they are hard-liners who generally despise the west, such as Usama.

So next time, before start slagging off at other religions, you may want to know a little more than just the first 3 pages. Oh and using an example that is every bit as bad doesn't help either, the bible is simply horrid in its treatment of women and others.
 
  by: jonnienewbee   08/23/2004 02:50 PM     
  Um..no  
 
"Why throw your life away, counting on an afterlife."

Those who believe in God, live thier lives to the fullest, they dont throw it away.
 
  by: Whipd+Kreem     08/23/2004 02:55 PM     
  Um... [edited]  
 
[benign personal comment deleted] Regardless of what you may produce, I have lived in the middle-east and have YET to see anything of that sort. These are fundamentalist-extremist muslims and this story was reported in a way to make them all look bad so that [personal comment deleted]

America is a bunch of barbarians, America is a natural warrior nation that cares about number #1(themselves). Face the truth, America is not th be-all-end-all of this world.

Whipd Cream, im with you and everything you say, u speak truth.
 
  by: dj_unforgetable   08/23/2004 02:55 PM     
  @Whipd+Kreem  
 
No, i'm not American. Yes, i dispice USA too, they too have a twisted law system. But it's based just on law. And could you explain me why in most of the islamic countryes the womens position is so bad and they're value as humans are near animals? Have you ever heard a man being stoned to death because of adultery? I never heard a honor killing in here Finland, and i never heard someone was hanged in the streets for any crime and no, we do not even have death penalty. Can you show me one islam country were women would have as much rights as they have in here? And now, explain why they have so little human rights in Muslim world. If it's not the religion, then what is it? I see a big connection between Islam and abuse of women. :P
 
  by: Venomi   08/23/2004 03:03 PM     
  Religion is population control...  
 
....without people having a belief structure, how many people do you think we would have in this world? Probably 3 times as many as we do now. The worlds oil would be gone, our ozone would be gone, our trees would be gone, etc. If it wasn't for religion single-handedly causing millions upon millions of deaths, we would be living like china, billions of people cramed into a box.

I myself am not religios in the slightest, after all, If God did exist, why would he allow his/her churches to burn down? That should be enough proof itself.
 
  by: groulix   08/23/2004 03:16 PM     
  @jonnienewbee  
 
"These guys were basically evil, women-hating hardline pieces of human sh*t. Thus they are hard-liners who generally despise the west, such as Usama."

HAHA what a load of crap... Osama was not a hard-line sunni... he was barely even following any islamic principles at all. he drank alchol and spent excessively on useless things and kill thousands of innocent people (all 3 are not allowed in islam) also his sons were known to rape women as they please which is also not allowed. To say that they are hard line sunnis is bs.
As for a sunni being a women-hater.. some of the laws there arent as bad for them as you think... such as them not being able to drive. instead they get driven around so they dont have to drive in crowded cities (notice how celebrities do this too.. i wonder why its being called opressing the women)
Also, they have seperation of some facilites such as banks and as a result the line for the mens one causes an hour or two wait to get to the teller while the womens one is very short so the women dont even have to wait to go up to a bank teller
 
  by: ddrz2k3   08/23/2004 04:05 PM     
  Go figure  
 
They still act like animals and wonder why the rest of the world wants to eliminate them! Not me of course, just bring them to their knees:)
 
  by: Truth Hurts   08/23/2004 04:28 PM     
  is this really true...how sick is that  
 
they should hang that judge for having no common sense. Is this really the kind of stuff that goes on in Muslim countries? Thank GOD for the USA and that I am an American.
 
  by: TOBYKIETH     08/23/2004 05:38 PM     
  throw in envy  
 
the biggest crime of the USA is having fed the rest of the world after the WWII, having glossy pop culture, being frivolous, having juicy hamburgers, being rich.
The biggest crime of the Europeans-forget that-the Isalmic world-- is Green Envy, the snake-like biting of the one who feeds the snake, the envy of money, of semi-dressed women, of freedom.
The biggest crime, still, is the covetous criminals taking upon themselves to commit murders out of this envy and hate. Snake-like, again.
 
  by: kremens     08/23/2004 06:06 PM     
  I agree with TOBY  
 
Thank God that I am an American. I would never leave this country as I love it wholeheartedly. I'm proud to be Christian as well as Christianity does not teach or believe in such evil. From the other comments that I've read about you who hate the U.S., etc... all I see is jealousy and/or a whole bunch of crap that you have no clue unto what your talking about. How about leaving politics to the adults?
 
  by: chud247   08/23/2004 07:23 PM     
  @kremens  
 
Jesus [Yeshua in Hebrew/Aramaic, or Jesu in Spanish] certainly is God incarnate. He was crucified for saying He is God! He never refused to be worshipped as God. He never rebuked anyone for worshipping Him as God. He said to a crowd of Jews: "Before Abraham I am." They knew that was a declaration of diety, so they wanted to stone him for blasphemy. Jesus, being a Jew Himself, knew false claims of diety were forbidden, yet He, being God incarnate, was not inhibited from declaring the truth!
[personal comment deleted] Same for many of you others as well!
Scripture holds up to the most severe critical reading and triumphs over all who attack it, and it undergirds all who embrace it! Not so with the Qu'ran, as this Iranian girl of 16 attests.
 
  by: Luhker     08/23/2004 07:33 PM     
  Just because its written in the bible...  
 
....does not mean its true. The fact remains that jesus was a real person, and just because he was the first "nut" to say "I'm God", does not prove that he was actually God's son, or whatever he said he was. If you believe that Jesus was the son of God, why is it when you hear about someone of today claiming to be God incarnate, or Jesus incarnate, you immediately denouce him/her, and call them crazy. If there was a book written about that person, would you believe it?


Don't believe everything you read.
 
  by: groulix   08/23/2004 07:56 PM     
  no religion, no problem  
 
Without any religion, things like honor killings and these kinda murders of victims loose the justification. If there is no justification, then it's plain murder. Simple as that. Abuse, honor killings, rapes, virginity tests to women while men can go around doing what they're lower part says. "that seems to be the main purpose in Islam after reading the Sharia law and Islam fates rules generally. men are the rulers and women are the farm animals." Same rules to both men and women. We are same species anyway. Islam law, trash it, Sharia law, burn it, Qu'ran, pee over it, bible, stick it somewhere sun don't "usually" shine. :P Without Islam laws, without any religion justification, this girls hanging would be plain murder in the eyes of world. "It still is a plain cold blooded murder to me!"
 
  by: Venomi   08/23/2004 08:20 PM     
  erase religion, usher in a fake religion  
 
we've seen (SS)ocialist-nationalist Germany, Commie SSR, China, Korea, eradicate religion and install REALLy bloody screwed up religions that ourperformed classic religions in killing by millions, etc etc. --while worshipping a criminal upstart!
 
  by: kremens     08/23/2004 08:27 PM     
  [deleted by cc]  
 
[deleted by cc for personal insults]
 
  by: Yare     08/23/2004 10:06 PM     
  I am Muslim  
 
You don't need four male witnesses to prove the rape. You need 3 male or females to see if they went in a room together or anything like that.
And She didn't get hanged because she was raped, she got hanged beacause of her "sharp tongue", which has nothing to do with islam. The Judge should be hanged. This is why we tell women to cover up, go outside with a male relative and don't go out at night,so they won't gat raped. I bet she didn't follow one of them. This whole news has nothing to do with islam. The stupid Judge was using his power for injustice.
 
  by: fat fag boy   08/23/2004 10:34 PM     
  [deleted by cc]  
 
[like i said-responses to insults get deleted too]
 
  by: dj_unforgetable   08/23/2004 11:00 PM     
  [deleted by cc]  
 
[deleted by cc]
 
  by: Yare     08/24/2004 12:04 AM     
  "fat fag boy" (nice handle)  
 
"This is why we tell women to cover up, go outside with a male relative and don't go out at night,so they won't gat raped. I bet she didn't follow one of them"
By that statement you are saying it probably was the girl's fault she got raped sice she "didn't follow" the stupid Muslim rules. She could have gone out naked and if she got raped it wouldn't be her fault. Your archaic thinking needs to change about women. They are not property. They are humans and they have rights. They should be able to do anything they wish without fear of being raped or hanged!!
 
  by: lurker     08/24/2004 01:30 AM     
  @lurker  
 
Do you know how many women get raped in US?Compare that with Iran or Saudi Arabia
 
  by: fat fag boy   08/24/2004 04:23 AM     
  It's not their fault --it's the rapists fault n/t  
 
n/t
 
  by: lurker     08/24/2004 04:25 AM     
  Also,  
 
the Muslim girls are afraid to report it. They don't want to end up like this poor 16 year old that was hung.
 
  by: lurker     08/24/2004 04:27 AM     
  LISTEN UP!!!!!!  
 
I deleted every single comment in this thread which had a personal insult. Continue and I will suggest blocks. The ones that had direct name-calling were deleted. Others have been edited.
 
  by: JFURY     08/24/2004 04:53 AM     
  @fat fag boy  
 
You comment: "Do you know how many women get raped in US?Compare that with Iran or Saudi Arabia" I suspect far more rapes in those countryes. As lurker sayd: "the Muslim girls are afraid to report it. They don't want to end up like this poor 16 year old that was hung." It's more then common there. At least in USA and other civilized countryes they don't blame rape victims, they don't stone them to death and families don't abandon the victims. In civilized world, they punich the rapist and don't hand the victims. :P Islam worlds in the other hand, it's always the womens fault to get raped. I've readed Sharia law, and it's based on the religion, and it is as far as i know, most unfair law to women. So please don't try to avert topic. Could you explain why these kinda things only in Islam countryes? I never heard that in USA/Finnish/German/Swedish would any christian families killed own daughters because they were raped. Why is it that honor killing happens only in Islam world? Why is women treated like animals/quilty if something happens? Do you have an answer to these questions?
 
  by: Venomi   08/24/2004 05:12 AM     
  Hey  
 
You do realise, that just like Christianity, Islam too has many different versions? Theres thousands of Christian religions.

Its a pitty that the media is focusing on the extremist version only. Islam is a peavefull religion. But it doesnt matter even if someone showed you a Quran which stated it, because alot of you are racist, arrogant, and very intolerable towards Arabs anyway, and have made up your minds about every single follower of the Muslim faith.

Some of you are acting as if our countries are better then theres. Well, have you thought about how many paedofiles we have living amongst us, how many children are sexually abused every day, how many people are shot every day, how much sex and drugs has taken over alot of peoples lives. You wont see 1/4 of the shit that happens in our supposedly 'civilised' countries, happen over there ever.

Those countries may have thier faults, and arent perfect, but think about it like this, niether are our countries. Instead of bombing them into the stone ages further, and killing thier civilians, and alienating them even more, how about we instead try and help these people come into the 21st century?
Wait, what am I thinking, that way there wont be massive profits for those who stand to get even richer from war and suffering. Oh well, was a good thought.
 
  by: Whipd+Kreem     08/24/2004 06:39 AM     
  Because...  
 
***"how about we instead try and help these people come into the 21st century?"***

John Kerry syndrome! Criticize the current methods but provide NO workable alternatives!

I like it.

*thumbs up*
 
  by: Yare     08/24/2004 07:01 AM     
  YOU MUST BE JOKING  
 
A totally innocent girl is killed because she had the guts to ask for justice that any FOOL can see is obvious. Yes there is violence everywhere but what makes this act particularly evil is that a judge was allowed to get away with murder because he felt intimidated. This is INJUSTICE AT ITS WORST. Just think yourself lucky if you live in a democratic and not perfect society. It could be worse.
 
  by: lukesteele   08/24/2004 07:54 AM     
  I agree  
 
The judge should be punished somehow, according to Iranian law, not ours.

But, what has the judges decision, got to do with Islam? I dont see the connection between a judge who ordered someones execution because they pissed him off, and Islam.

Anyone is welcome to try and show a link between a corrupt judge and Islam.
 
  by: Whipd+Kreem     08/24/2004 08:15 AM     
  Arab Judges, Bakshish and Female Circumcision  
 
The word is Bakshish, for it is the standard form of corruption in the Middle East. You could reationalize that Western legal system is corrupt--it depends on how expensive the lawyer is -- however this is dwarfed by the primitive practices in the Middle East. Witnesses lie as a lip service, when it's obvious the crowd wants a lashing or a beheading show.

Kicking a dead horse--what else can Islam say about offering a woman quality life if girls are still expected to be circumcized?
Here is a page defending it:
http://www.rjgeib.com/...
 
  by: kremens     08/24/2004 08:44 AM     
  @Venomi  
 
"I've readed Sharia law, and it's based on the religion, and it is as far as i know, most unfair law to women."

What the hell are you talking about?
You must have gotten that Sharia by a non-muslim. That version of Sharia is wrong. I have lived in the Middle East for 9 years, so I know how it is in the Middle East. Sharia Laws is very just. The same rules apply for men and women the same. Sharia Laws maybe strict but
they are fair. Think, Sharia Law was created 1400 years ago, back then, these "strict punishment" were like any other punishment. Just like as we think about gladiator and the whole colosseum thing. Now we think that those are just plain cruel, but back in those days, we would be thinking how fun they are.

As for this statement:
"the Muslim girls are afraid to report it. They don't want to end up like this poor 16 year old that was hung."
Like I said before, she wasn't hanged because she got raped, she got hanged because that idiot judge said she used her "sharp tongue", so DO NOT be blaming Islam for this.

Now answering these questions:
1. Could you explain why these kind of things happen only in Islamic countries?
Almost all Islamic countries are in monarchy and/or not developed like the westerns countries. And a lot people believe in different versions of islam; like this idiot judge. He think it is right in islam to kill people for their "sharp tongue."

2.Why is it that honor killing happens only in Islamic world?
These are idiot Indian and Pakistani people, nothing to do with islam.

3.Why is women treated like animals if something happens?
Animals don't get killed for their "sharp tongue" by judges.
 
  by: fat fag boy   08/24/2004 08:52 AM     
  I think its fair to say...  
 
That this girl's death was the indirect result of her having been raped.

1) She was on trial for "moral corruption" (a religious law).

2) She spoke out against the social order.

3) She was executed for being a woman speaking that way to a male judge, and for questioning the religious law.

This is not indicative of the religion by any means, but it was caused by it, much the same way that Catholics have the occasional priest who gets off on young kids. Those kids are molested as a result of a person in religious power abusing that power over them.
 
  by: Yare     08/24/2004 09:06 AM     
  @fat fag boy  
 
Is Istanbul in india? It is sayd to be most modern islamic city. There were honor killing little time a go. Is Sweden too? Muslim father murdered his daughter there because she dated christian guy. Don't try to fool me. I have learned a lot from Turkish/muslim friends. Do you follow islam? How do you treat women, are they equal to you? By religion they are not. Did you know about evolution? Civilized countryes have developed to better direction since barbaric times. Have islam worlds developed too? Is it fun for you to go see a hanging of a young innosent girl? You mayby enjoy going to see a stoning to death wich still widely happens example in Turkey? Would you kill your daughter/sister because of family honor or faith if she is raped? I know many many cases where muslims have done it but no such cases in christian families... So if islam is not the reason why women are treated so low, then what is? In sharia law, men and women can't even travel in same buss. You are male, of course islam is good for you. It let's you do barbaric things. :P you could even rape a woman and in court, you would win since womans word alone is not good enough even there would be medical evidence. Please, just stop defending islam or find another reason for mistreatment in islamic countryes. You just make yourself look bad... It's 21th century man.
 
  by: venomi   08/24/2004 09:28 AM     
  Why it is so...  
 
It seems to me that some of those who follow the religions of past milleniums faithfully have failed to realize that we as a species of animal have evolved socially from the once-accepted philosophies of murder, revenge, violence and sexual inequality to women in most free-thinking countries. Every one of us has this sense of justice inside them which can be summed up as "do to others as you want them to do to you"..if you knew you would be given the same as you give out, Im sure we would all be a lot more careful with our actions. Now how about we all take a pledge to abide by just THIS ONE RULE...think about it...its a very powerful statement which everyone can agree to in their conscience...and maybe we will see this world can be heaven as our creator intended it to be.
 
  by: lukesteele   08/24/2004 09:30 AM     
  The way I see it..  
 
Is that the system these Muslim countries have, is working for them. And we, as the western world, have no right to interfere in the running of those countries, or thier laws. Unless of course someone like Saddam or Mugabe is in charge and is killing thousands every day. Or if they are a threat, but that is a different discussion.
We shouldnt be saying they are unfair on women, that they are brutall and vicious people, and what not, because our society is far from perfect. We lock up robbers longer then we do paedofiles, which is just backwards and wrong imo.

It might be a religious law, but its the LAW. People who speak out here, in our supposed civilised society, are thrown in jail anyhow. Our system(s) are just as corrupt and backwards.
 
  by: Whipd+Kreem     08/24/2004 11:37 AM     
  thumbs up to @Luhrker  
 
Luhker, God bless you for your response (@kremens).

I might note that for all the condescending remarks on this thread considering how women are treated in the US; this is a story about a specific Iranian fundamentalist judge; not all Muslims.

As to why God allows his churches to burn down? Why do you throw away socks with holes in them? Because they were well used. You still want/need socks, so you get new ones from a new location.
:)
 
  by: Moojoo     08/24/2004 11:41 AM     
  My God is about Faith  
 
not about material buildings and laws...he represents love. Have you ever felt love ? If so then you have felt God. To truly experience God in all of his glory you must journey throuh trials and tribulation...having faith will bring you to one of the highest levels of love and joy you will ever know. Faith my friends.
Got Faith?
 
  by: TOBYKIETH     08/24/2004 05:15 PM     
  Stomach churning  
 
I felt so angry reading this article, I would want the judge to be hanged in the same way - who does he think he is? Those Islamic countries that really follow these sort of laws are an example of just how different life is depennding on where you live in the globe. But the depths of human depravity are visible everywhere - really pathetic examples of just what levels of evil and ignorance we are capable of. 2004 - my faith is God is hardly wavered but one wonders what He must contemplate on his just how much of a scum race his children became.
 
  by: Vswift   08/24/2004 05:28 PM     
  @venomi  
 
"Is Istanbul in india? It is sayd to be most modern islamic city. There were honor killing little time a go. Is Sweden too? Muslim father murdered his daughter there because she dated christian guy."
That is wrong. He shouldn't have done that, but if she would have gotten married to him, she is suppose to be killed. I know you would be saying that this is stupid and unfair but this is our rules.

You are an ignorant fool,Venomi. Of course women are equal to me. Why wouldn't they be?

I am not going to respond to the other questions because they are just dumb questions. In my 9 years of living in middle east, I never saw any hanging nor any other killing.

As for this statement:
"you could even rape a woman and in court, you would win since womans word alone is not good enough even there would be medical evidence"
How many times do I have to say this? The judge is an idiot. DO NOT be blaming Islam for this. And are you saying that judges in Islamic countries don't look at evidence? We may be less developed but not stupid.

Answer me these questions:
Why are more women than men are converting to Islam? Why is Islam the fastest growing religion in the world?

P.S
I won't try to put you down because that would be sinking to your pathetic level.
 
  by: fat fag boy   08/24/2004 08:32 PM     
  @fat fag boy  
 
Dont make fun of indians son, all religions stem from hinduism, and all languages stem from sanscript (created by indians)

I just hope your name has no relation to your religion.
 
  by: dj_unforgetable   08/24/2004 08:36 PM     
  @dj_unforgetable  
 
I didn't make fun of Indians. I said that Indians and Pakistani do the honour killing thing. Pakistani are muslim too.
 
  by: fat fag boy   08/24/2004 11:01 PM     
  @fat fag boy  
 
""There were honor killing little time a go. Is Sweden too? Muslim father murdered his daughter there because she dated christian guy."
That is wrong. He shouldn't have done that, but if she would have gotten married to him, she is suppose to be killed. I know you would be saying that this is stupid and unfair but this is our rules.

You are an ignorant fool,Venomi. Of course women are equal to me. Why wouldn't they be? "

Don't call Venomi an ignorant fool when it's obvious it's you who are one. First you say it's your rules and the woman in Sweden was supposed to be killed for dating the non muslim. Then two sentences down you claim that you think that women are equal to you. Talk about being a hypocrite!
The father got life in prison. An unfair punishment imo, he shouldn't be allowed to live. It's great to live in secular societies so we can have laws that protect our population from religious zealots. To bad that you didn't live in Sweden and told the father what you posted here. Then you would also be in prison now and fewer women would have to fear for their life.

I usually avoid to personal flames but when someone suggests that a woman should be executed for seeing someone her father doesn't approve of, then I think that person might have half a point. The execution didn't sound that bad but I was thinking of someone else as the recipient
 
  by: aljo4025   08/25/2004 12:31 AM     
  it's about religion, see link/story  
 
Another link to a new story about the way many muslim countries view women. From BBC today (if I wasn't to lazy I would have made a story but if someone else wants to then feel free)

"Malaysia's official human rights commission had asked parliament to make marital rape a crime.

However, the chief cleric or mufti of the state of Perak said that such a move is against Islam. "
http://news.bbc.co.uk/...
 
  by: aljo4025   08/25/2004 12:36 AM     
  Heh heh.  
 
Fat Boy to someone else:
"I won't try to put you down because that would be sinking to your pathetic level."

Contradiction++ !
 
  by: Yare     08/25/2004 12:44 AM     
  @dj unforgeTTable  
 
Check your dictionary, please?
Check also your religious history sources.
Hinduism CERTAINLY IS NOT the stem that produced Judaism and Christianity! Any source merely hinting at this is bogus. A Hindu would regard such a suggestion as an insult, I have no doubt.
 
  by: Luhker     08/25/2004 01:17 AM     
  Nice to see the Kahane Chai on this board  
 
Staying on subject, the lynching of this girl seems to be more to do with the judge's decision rather than a religious one.

Islam treats both men and women equally and a woman victim of rape cannot be blamed for the crime that happened to her. There is no where in the Quran any indication to blame the rape victim instead of blaming the rapist. When and if this happens, it does not represent Islam but represents cultural understanding and man made laws, not God's commands in the Quran.

In addition since a lot of you bigots cry foul play when a Muslim father would not let his daughter marry a Christian. What do you make of Princess Diana's murder by the secret service under orders from the Queen and with the approval of her OWN mother to be killed because she was about to marry a Muslim.

Don't bother with the conspiracy theorist come backs, I think we're all old enough to know what happened that night.
 
  by: The_Slayer   08/25/2004 01:19 AM     
  @The Slayer  
 
'Staying on subject' is exemplified by offering a paragraph with the uncharged, unproven hypothetical crime of murdering someone totally unrelated to the episode under discussion???
Same rules of evidence that the IRANIAN [presumedly ISLAMIC] judges used? Hang them all!
 
  by: Luhker     08/25/2004 01:33 AM     
  reasons like this  
 
its reasons like this that the us will eventually liberate Iran too.
 
  by: jeff66   08/25/2004 02:02 AM     
  @jeff66  
 
"its reasons like this that the us will eventually liberate Iran too".
---------------------------------------

The good thing is Israel will also be 'liberated' by Iran, when that happens and everyone will live happily ever after that.....until a sudden bright light appears over the horizon in Washington DC followed by a massive fireball that rips through the USA, leaving it a bit to late to "Duck! and cov-er" (quite a memorable tune that):)

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/...
 
  by: The_Slayer   08/25/2004 02:15 AM     
  @aljo4025  
 
My statement:
"That is wrong. He shouldn't have done that, but if she would have gotten married to him, she is suppose to be killed."

Aljo4025 statement:
"First you say it's your rules and the woman in Sweden was supposed to be killed for dating the non muslim. Then two sentences down you claim that you think that women are equal to you. Talk about being a hypocrite!"

Please read carefully before posting. I said it was wrong to kill a women for dating a christian man. I said if she would have gotten married to a christian man, the women is supposed to be killed. It is also wrong for a man to marry a christian women. Women and men are treated equally in Islam. But some people allow the man to marry a christian women because people believe that men can easily convert women to Islam. Again, this has nothing to do with Islam.
Now, can you all please stop trying to show how bad Islam is?
 
  by: fat fag boy   08/25/2004 05:39 AM     
  yo fat man  
 
keep up tha spirti now
these peeps here think islam all dis n dat but in real ISLAMS THE TRUTH
 
  by: 111disco   08/25/2004 06:04 AM     
  fat man  
 
keep up tha spirti now
these peeps here think islam all dis n dat but in real ISLAMS THE TRUTH
 
  by: 111disco   08/25/2004 06:04 AM     
  Slayer  
 
Who is going to nuke America? None of our enemies have missiles that can deliver the warheads this far.

Plus, between the missile shield, our nuclear submarines, and aircraft that can shoot down a missile if necessary, I'm going to have to give your comment a hearty laugh, and then a /ignore.
 
  by: Yare     08/25/2004 08:03 AM     
  Also  
 
What's with giving me the "Very Bad" rating for the story being "Incomplete", Slayer?

Please tell me what my summarization is missing that would fit into the 750 letter limit, so I can try and do better next time.
 
  by: Yare     08/25/2004 08:06 AM     
  To see  
 
All the talk of fools in this thread, then to read this.."all religions stem from hinduism,", made me think, who is real fool here?
Ill settle this for the lot of you, your all a bunch of fools. Happy now?
 
  by: Whipd+Kreem     08/25/2004 10:29 AM     
  Haji Rezaii and those alikes  
 
I would like to see this retarded f|_|cKhead "judge" raped by a horde of pigs and hanged publicly because he was raped
 
  by: xadas   08/25/2004 10:55 AM     
  Wow.  
 
"Dont make fun of indians son, all religions stem from hinduism, and all languages stem from sanscript (created by indians)"

Wow, I've read a lot of stupid comments on this page but this one is by far the most stupid.
 
  by: chud247   08/25/2004 02:34 PM     
  Wow...  
 
Im guessing no one got my sarcasm? Jeez, I didn't mean it literally people!!!!! I am indian, but im not stupid!
 
  by: dj_unforgetable   08/25/2004 02:54 PM     
  @yare  
 
"Who is going to nuke America? None of our enemies have missiles that can deliver the warheads this far".
---------------------------------------

Hahaha! You would be surprised how many enemies have that capability and the defence shield is obsolete now, Russia has already developed a weapon that can bypass and even overwhelm any missile defence sheild making it useless. :*(


btw I can hardly read any of your comments without cracking up, you seem to be living in a twilight zone, while frothing in the mouth like you have a point.

 
  by: The_Slayer   08/25/2004 03:14 PM     
  @fat fag boy  
 
Then i quess you wanna kill my girlfriend too... Since she is a Muslim and i am a christian. And we ar engaged and going to get married. But before you try kill her, it's me your going to face in front of you. And belieme, i'll defend my love with all my life and power i have. At least she saw the unfareness in Islam. And stepped to the 21st century from the barbaric Islam world. :)
 
  by: Venomi   08/25/2004 03:20 PM     
  @yare  
 
"Who is going to nuke America? None of our enemies have missiles that can deliver the warheads this far".
---------------------------------------

Hahaha! You would be surprised how many enemies have that capability and the defence shield is obsolete now, Russia has already developed a weapon that can bypass and even overwhelm any missile defence sheild making it useless. :*(


btw I can hardly read any of your comments without cracking up, you seem to be living in a twilight zone, while frothing in the mouth like you have a point.

 
  by: The_Slayer   08/25/2004 03:24 PM     
  @kremens  
 
"Islam worships a ruthless god, not God
I remember the opening of Kor'an:
beheadings
hearts cut open
smitings
slaughter.
God, on the contrary, always teaches compassion and kindness."

actually in the bible it explictly states that a drunk, a homosexual, a rapist, a rape victim, a stuborn children, people who commit beastiality are all to be stone to death at the town gates.

and "god" even commited mass genocide of nearly all life (according to the bible in the story of noahs ark).

so much for compassion and kindness
 
  by: HAVOC666     08/25/2004 03:43 PM     
  @kremens  
 
"The history has proven that whenever a cause is to be fought, the atheists resort to the same tactics that the murderous religions have used. Hence, no good to humanity from Godlessness."

how many time have you heard of athiest killing in the name of "god", never, because if they did they aren't atheists. and religion btw, isn't a good source of moral with the possible exception of half of the commandments and "do unto other as you would have them do unto you", i live more by a variation to that which goes "do unto other as they HAVE done unto you", i personally don't kind the first on feasible as 99% of people will treat you differently than you would want.
 
  by: HAVOC666     08/25/2004 03:49 PM     
  lol @ venomi, living in a fantasy world  
 
"Then i quess you wanna kill my girlfriend too... Since she is a Muslim and i am a christian. And we ar engaged and going to get married".
 
  by: The_Slayer   08/25/2004 03:53 PM     
  @venomi _II  
 
Yes and I'm married to a jewish girl and she has a fetish of making love through a hole in the bedsheet. LMAO!

No, seriously I don't think a Muslim girl will touch with a barge pole, due to the amount of venom you spit from your mouth. Judaism is satanic, which feeds on hate, death and destruction and you my friend belong to this sadistic cult that is a sad excuse for a religion.
 
  by: The_Slayer   08/25/2004 03:58 PM     
  @Slayer  
 
"satanic, which feeds on hate, death and destruction and you my friend belong to this sadistic cult that is a sad excuse for a religion."
That seems to descrbe you very well, meister.
 
  by: lurker     08/25/2004 04:02 PM     
  @moojoo  
 
"As to why God allows his churches to burn down? Why do you throw away socks with holes in them? Because they were well used. You still want/need socks, so you get new ones from a new location."

ok, new question, why do churches have lightning rods...lol

you nor anyone isn't actually expected to answer this, but it would be entertianing to me to read the answer.
 
  by: HAVOC666     08/25/2004 04:17 PM     
  @TK  
 
"Have you ever felt love ? If so then you have felt God. To truly experience God in all of his glory you must journey throuh trials and tribulation...having faith will bring you to one of the highest levels of love and joy you will ever know. Faith my friends.
Got Faith?"

ah TK, i do feel love, and i accept it for what it is, a chemical reaction in ones brain. this certianly doesn't make it meaningless infact if anything it gives love more meaning. why do atheists love people, atheists don't have faith in "god", i'm an atheist and i love people too.
 
  by: HAVOC666     08/25/2004 04:23 PM     
  @The_Slayer  
 
Mayby it just makes you feel unadequate as a man if a Turkish Muslim chooses a Finnish christian man to marry and not a Muslim... She hates Turkish men. I wonder why... Btw, do you have to wait untill marriage to do anything under sheets like Islam says? We don't. :D
 
  by: Venomi   08/25/2004 04:44 PM     
  @vemomi  
 
"Btw, do you have to wait untill marriage to do anything under sheets like Islam says? We don't. :D"

actually christian have to wait too, however, christians like religious people of all religion pick and choose what they practice and teach. no sex before marriage has been discarded by most christians.
 
  by: HAVOC666     08/25/2004 04:57 PM     
  @HAVOC666  
 
You are right. But it's not that strict religion and it does not punish from premarital sex. It does not make women look like animals and does not tell to kill those women who have premarital sex. At least no christian is told/pressed to kill own daughter because she dates another religion person or is raped. Pretty lean religion. Still i think i would prefer ateism better... Well, in love, there is no boundaries like religion. And thanks to technology, many Muslim women are seeking men from western countryes in internet. You can quess why it is so, but the answer is simple. No women wants to be just a property to a man. Like it is in Islam. Better be free then a wife, or 3rd wife, to a guy that knows absolutely nothing of how to treat women right and only thinks of her as his property. Or have i heard wrong from other Muslims and read wrong from the Islam law? :P
 
  by: Venomi   08/25/2004 05:13 PM     
  Venomi, HAVOC666  
 
My wife and I abstained till we said I do, and it was well worth it. But we did that because Christianity is based upon the bible, and the bible says to abstain. Did you miss that Venomi?

A practicing Christian does not pick and choose what they want to follow. Either you take the Bible as a whole and accept all it says, or you deny every part of it. That's how Jesus put it in Revelations with how we live. Either you serve him whole-heartedly, or you have nothing to do with him, not in the middle. HAVOC made his choice, and I made mine, we did not choose a middle ground.
 
  by: Urmac     08/25/2004 05:22 PM     
  @venomi  
 
"At least no christian is told/pressed to kill own daughter because she dates another religion person or is raped."

deuteronomy
22:23 If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her;

22:24
Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you.
 
  by: HAVOC666     08/25/2004 05:58 PM     
  shame on them :(  
 
But doesn't it tell you something about them?

It's the fundamentalist Muslims who have the real power & if they ever get their way of spreading the Muslim faith to the entire world we're all in deep sh!t.

No Alcohol on pain of death, no sex on pain of death, death if you don't worship every day, death if you don't join the religion, death if you want to leave the religion.

These people see it as their mission to kill themselves & anyone who doesn't agree with them.
 
  by: Lucifer_The_Dark   08/25/2004 06:24 PM     
  @HAVOC666  
 
"22:24
Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you."
Why not give me a news example if there really has happened this? I can give you lotsa links and examples how this is happened in Islam world. You can't give even one example that it has happened in christian world. Since christians have come to 21th century and the bible rules have chainged somewhat. Christianity has evolvew with the times and needs. Islam is still in barbaric age.
 
  by: Venomi   08/25/2004 06:27 PM     
  Haha nice one Havoc!  
 
Poor Venomi is left with egg on his face yet again.

@venomi

"It does not make women look like animals and does not tell to kill those women who have premarital sex."
---------------------------------------
Personally I have not seen any women who look like dogs, but that's something related to how you were brought up and taught to view women. If you are angry because you don't like how other women cover up because you can't perv over them, that is your own problem, visit a lap dancing club, or rent a girlfriend. : )

On the subject of "no christian is told/pressed to kill own daughter because she dates another religion person".
--------------------------------------

I simply say find out why Princess Diana died and who killed her. Don't bother with the "she died after being pursued by photographers" because it's lame and doesn't work anymore.

Try:

http://www.prisonplanet.com/...
 
  by: The_Slayer   08/25/2004 06:29 PM     
  @SH4D0W_BOSS  
 
Diana died because her driver was a drunken alcoholic who should not have been driving. Your conspiracy theory is BS!!
 
  by: lurker     08/25/2004 06:34 PM     
  @venomi  
 
"Why not give me a news example if there really has happened this? I can give you lotsa links and examples how this is happened in Islam world. You can't give even one example that it has happened in christian world. Since christians have come to 21th century and the bible rules have chainged somewhat. Christianity has evolvew with the times and needs. Islam is still in barbaric age."

you do me more just than you realize in stating this. that was the whole point of me saying that most-all christian DO NOT adhere to christianity, why, because in modern society its unacceptable. however Islam isn't a modern society. if christian actually followed the bible verse for verse they would be so confused they wouldn't know what to do... i believe they are already too confused, thus the reason that there are 10,000+ (i've heard more than 60,000 from people from time to time) sects/versions of christianity (if you include catholics and all there sects too.

if all christians followed the bible there wouldn't be a population anywhere close to 6-6.2 billion. remember many things are punishible by death.

and i missed one earlier being accused of being a witch was often grounds for horrible death penalties, but they are muders lets face it.

and the bible even says slavery is acceptable and also the sale of daughters.

to me the main difference between a muslim and a christian is that the christian believes jesus was the fulfillment of the prophecies whereas muslims beleive it was mahommad.

and both are pretty much the same both basically say to kill infedials (basically a person of a religion that your not). hell if i killed people that weren't modern satanists, atheists or agnostics, i'd have more life sentences than the entire population of the US could serve...lol
 
  by: HAVOC666     08/25/2004 06:53 PM     
  @HAVOC666  
 
So welcome to the 21th century! Where there are no barbaric rules to opress women and kill humans for fun. Welcome to the time of evolution where religion evols with the humans too. Welcome to the time where men and women are much closer to equality. No.. I forgot, barbaric Islam world is better. In there, men have the control and they can, as in topic, kill/hang girls/women if they are shamed/violated/raped, because of Islam law. That is barbaric. As it is to kill your own daughter if she dates a christian man. Do you kill a son if he dates christian woman? Noooo. And in the court, if women and men are equal in Islam, then why women need more witnesses to prove the crime? Is that equal?

"In cases of adultery, shari'ah resorts to particularly drastic measures. Rape creates an especially difficult burden of proof for the victim. Shari'ah law only provides for punishment in cases of adultery, if both parties admit to have committed the "crime". If this is not the case, four independent witnesses have to be found; however, the witnesses must be male. In cases of rape, shari'ah rules that a rapist is to be punished with 100 lashes, if unmarried, or with death by stoning, if married, since this would then constitute adultery."

This is equality in Islam world? Hah!!!

To continue little.

"Interesting here is the fact that by convicting a Christian this case stands in direct contrast to statements by Islamists that shari'ah is not applicable to non-Muslims."

So you can't even hold your own law and religion in court? And you still say Islam is a religion of peace and justice? Excuse me, i think i go laugh my head off with my Muslim fiance. :D :D :D
 
  by: Venomi   08/25/2004 07:23 PM     
  @venomi  
 
i certiantly didn't say Islam was peaceful, nor did i say that of any religion.
 
  by: HAVOC666     08/25/2004 07:34 PM     
  HAVOC666, Slayer, Venomi  
 
John 8:7
"So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."

HAVOC: Christians do not live soley by OT books, only Jews. I learned something a long time ago: if you want to hold one part of the Bible to account, then you have to look at it as a whole. There was a purpose to these laws, why they were follow them in the past, and why Jesus once and for all became the ultimate sacrifice, so that our sins can be forgiven, not punished on the spot.

This is way off topic of the article, so we can debate this elsewhere.
 
  by: Urmac     08/25/2004 07:34 PM     
  One more thing  
 
The scripture you referred to was the same exact scripture referrence the Pharisees were confronting Jesus with. And his reply was what I posted before this.

The problem was that they only brought the woman, and no man, so that gives light that they were trying to set him up and the lady probably did not commit adultery as they claimed, hence the absense of the man who was supposedly caught in the act.
 
  by: Urmac     08/25/2004 07:38 PM     
  @Lucifer_The_Dark  
 
"No Alcohol on pain of death, no sex on pain of death, death if you don't worship every day, death if you don't join the religion, death if you want to leave the religion."I am sorry to say that the things you said are on the Sharia Law but they aren't exactly what you said, let me correct those things;
1.No Alcohol on pain of death- True
2.No sex on pain of death;
-If the man or woman was already married= Death
-If the man or woman was wasn't already married= 100 Lashes
3.Death if you don't worship every day- Totally Wrong
4.Death if you don't join the religion- Somewhat true
5.Death if you want to leave the religion- True

"These people see it as their mission to kill themselves & anyone who doesn't agree with them." This statement is not true.
 
  by: fat fag boy   08/25/2004 09:21 PM     
  I forgot this  
 
What is the record on ShortNews of having the most comments in one news?
 
  by: fat fag boy   08/25/2004 09:23 PM     
  the record...  
 
i dunno but this one is probably getting close...lol
 
  by: HAVOC666     08/25/2004 09:27 PM     
  The record  
 
Stands at well over 200+ posts in one thread. That was reached sometime last year, I believe.

"Since christians have come to 21th century and the bible rules have chainged somewhat. Christianity has evolvew with the times and needs."

Yea, for sure. Catholic and ANglican priests sexually abuse alter boys, to suit thier needs for the 21st century eh?
The closest you will get to a true following of the bible, is an eastern Orthodox religion. And not even that is to the letter. The fact remains, nt oen Christian religion actually follows the scriptures down to the last word. And the 'rules'(as you put it)should NEVER change, not even if this was the 41st century.

Speaking of which, I think there is a few new age Christian religions which originated in the US, which strongly believe we are in like the year 3000 something, not 2004. So I guess, some Christians have come into the 31st century eh?
 
  by: Whipd+Kreem     08/26/2004 07:44 AM     
  To clarify.  
 
While the Koran certainly does say to "kill the infidels", it also makes it plainly clear that Christians and Jews are not considered infidels, because they all believe in the same God.

The extremists have twisted the original words and are committing grave crimes against their own religion.

On another note, American soldiers are falling in love with and marrying women in Iraq. they don't all hate us, apparently:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/...

http://msnbc.msn.com/...

I know nobody here reports stories like this because they're not anti-us enough, and I'm getting tired of being the only voice of reason and good here constantly being accused of posting for propagandist reasons. So meh. I may or may not post these on the site later.
 
  by: Yare     08/26/2004 08:48 AM     
  Yare..you make me laugh.  
 
"I'm getting tired of being the only voice of reason and good here constantly being accused of posting for propagandist reasons"

Ok. Sure.

Oh and, I have seen the story about a marine marrying an Iraqi lady. I was going to report it, but thought, nah it wont get that many hits, people wouldnt be interested in reading it. Besides, I usually submit war articles.
 
  by: Whipd+Kreem     08/26/2004 01:15 PM     
  In short  
 
Can any other Muslim share some light to this then my gf? If these things, like this hanging, are not from Islam religion, then where? What i have learned, basic Islam is not that cruel. The Muslims still use it as an excuse for things like this. As written, men and women are NOT equal. But how deep the gap is, depends on who reads the religion. And what honor is there to kill own daughter if she is raped? Restoring family honor by that? Isn't it more honorful to find the rapist, kill him and treat your daughter with family love and support? That is more honorable IMO. I never turn a back to someone asking help. But Muslims do it daily to those women who have been the victims of the worst crime women can suffer! RAPE! I have a better suggestion to Islam law since it is so barbaric. IF the man is find quilty, no death sentence, just cut the tool, used in rape, off. Isn't that fair? IF a man is fould quilty to premarital sex, by a child and blood test, same punishment. It's not that hard test anyway to do. Little blood. Equal rights to both. Same crime, same punishment. Or does that sound unfair to Muslim men???
 
  by: Venomi   08/26/2004 06:47 PM     
  @yare  
 
"On another note, American soldiers are falling in love with and marrying women in Iraq. they don't all hate us, apparently:

http://www.guardian.co.uk,
http://msnbc.msn.com/...
I know nobody here reports stories like this because they're not anti-us enough, and I'm getting tired of being the only voice of reason and good here constantly being accused of posting for propagandist reasons. So meh. I may or may not post these on the site later."

i know that not all iraqis hate the US but alot of them do and many of them rightfully so, even if for the invasion, i know if someone invaded my house i would not only hate him, i would defend my house and myself with violence, i really don't see my reasoning with and intruder.
 
  by: HAVOC666     08/26/2004 07:13 PM     
  @venomi  
 
"If these things, like this hanging, are not from Islam religion, then where?"

i won't go that far back in history a few hundred years (1000 tops). if you stole a mans horse (horse being the same as a car in comparison of the times). when you were found there was no trial and you were hung from the nearest tree.
 
  by: HAVOC666     08/26/2004 07:20 PM     
  @HAVOC666  
 
right... That was near middle age. How about a fair triel now? and how about commenting to the whole thread i did? Or is it so that silence is the mark of acceptance? Nothing to say to defend those questions i raised or just trying to steer away from them?
 
  by: Venomi   08/26/2004 07:33 PM     
  steering away from question... no  
 
i admittedly don't know much about Islam. but i do know certian things about it. i don't think i should be feilding those questions in particular.
 
  by: HAVOC666     08/26/2004 07:44 PM     
  @HAVOC666 and all of In short  
 
How about comments to that thread "all of In short"? Since it is part of subject, topic and thread even it goes a bit further. Or has silence answered to it already?
 
  by: Venomi   08/26/2004 08:12 PM     
  @venomi  
 
"How about comments to that thread "all of In short"? Since it is part of subject, topic and thread even it goes a bit further. Or has silence answered to it already?"

i'm not sure i'm getting whatever point your trying to convey. can you indulge me and explain?
 
  by: HAVOC666     08/26/2004 08:56 PM     
  @HAVOC666  
 
Ignore venomi, he doesn't even know his own religion and then he starts talking about other religions.
 
  by: fat fag boy   08/26/2004 11:43 PM     
  To understand equality in islam, told by a scholar  
 
http://63.175.194.25/...
Go there

for more questions about islam, check this site out. http://www.islamqa.com
 
  by: fat fag boy   08/26/2004 11:51 PM     
  nah  
 
i'd rather listen to whats said by venomi, doesn't mean i'll like/hate it nor does it mean i'll believe it. i expect a certian amount of maturity and i carry myself with a certian amount of maturity.

ps. i have offically talked two the worlds 3 dumbest people. and in the process got 3 death threats from them for: wearing black, being a satanist, supporting gay marriage, being a rocker, liking wrestling and hating guns...lol

i hope they never reproduce...lol
 
  by: HAVOC666     08/27/2004 12:32 AM     
  I just  
 
have to add a comment to this huge amount of comments that I will never read.
 
  by: biohazard   08/27/2004 02:31 AM     
  lol @ biohazard  
 
alot of them have been deleted or modded by a CC.
 
  by: HAVOC666     08/27/2004 02:54 AM     
  @everyone  
 
spam
 
  by: fat fag boy   08/27/2004 04:48 AM     
  Family-friendly islam  
 
islam, family friendly. The more I learn about islamic attitudes (and policies) about women, the more I feel that it should be outlawed. And that goes for christianity to; anybody that uses their religion to kill, torture, abuse and destroy is not, in my eyes, a human being.
 
  by: stoneymouse   08/28/2004 06:00 PM     
  @HAVOC666  
 
Satan worhipped the true and living God.
Why do you refuse to do so?
 
  by: Luhker     08/28/2004 07:45 PM     
  @luhker  
 
"Satan worhipped the true and living God.
Why do you refuse to do so?"

i'm a modern satanist not a devil worshipper theres a grave difference i don't even so much as even believe there ever was a "god" left alone a "living god". if your looking for a being with the capability of creating and destroying life, you need look no further than your own reflection. i wrote a poem that conveyed this meaning called "the devil in the mirror is me". i think the title make the poem pretty self explanitory even without reading it.

i'll acknowledge the existance of a "god" when a "god" has been proven to exist... theres millions to choose from, i ask for only one to be proven and i won't even specify which one.

pan, nike, athena, zues, thor, jehova, asheria, allah (though many consider allah the same as jehova), throth, ares, vishnu...ect.

i acknowldge none as the possibility of it to me is beyond belief... i guess that makes me beyond belief.

i guess it can be put this way to be put in its simplist terms.
i cannot worship something that doesn't exist (my opinion of course).

but i can honestly say i can't remember any point in my life in which in had such beliefs.
 
  by: HAVOC666     08/28/2004 08:59 PM     
  interesting thought  
 
in the mean time with all the noncense and mouth flapping and all, i wonder how many innocent girls have died in Islam countryes like that girl in the topic wayyy up there. :P And how many times it is/was based on Islam law/religion/honor...
 
  by: Venomi   08/28/2004 10:25 PM     
  @venomi re:interesting thought  
 
I'd bet a years salary that this is an isolated case, not the murder of the girl of course, I mean it's an isolated case in that it came to the media attention & the case actually ended up in court.

Most of the so-called honour killings happen outside the public view & are very well covered up.
 
  by: Lucifer_The_Dark   08/29/2004 12:10 PM     
  @Lucifer_The_Dark  
 
And that should make it feel better or worse?.. "See no evil, speak no evil, hear no evil" No problem. Hopefully as media and technology developes more, we see more of these cases in news and mayby some people finally get too conserned of it and try to chainge it. "Hanging that judge from a murder would be a good start"
 
  by: Venomi   08/29/2004 02:14 PM     
  @kremens re:god  
 
You wrote:

"However, there must be God the Merciful, the Kind Being, for without him, the DNA, or the asteroid theory do not provide for the morals and good will."

I love the way people try to justify the existance of something based on the lack of evidence to contradict it.

I know it's unlikely you'll believe in cavemen or the process of evolution (i'm sure you prefer creationism or 'divine' intervention/influence - which is just a ridiculous theory created by religious people to try to reason God's existance in the face of contradiction caused by science and facts!).. so you won't understand how we started off as savages and evolved in such a way that we could survive easier.

We are amiable with each other (or 'civilized') because it makes our lives easier and increases our chances of survival and prosperity. This has continued through inherited genes and been enforced by knowledge taught from parents/elders (social/environmental factors when at an impressionable age)

The 'family unit' is partly a consequence of survival instincts too.. going back to times when a lot of people lived in tribes.

I could probably break this down further to exemplify how our emotions are just electrical responses to various factors within our environment and biological systems.

If you believe in fate.. you already believe we are pre-programmed.

I believe I can make conscious decisions, these decisions are controlled by the parameters of my knowledge and experience... My decisions are based on calculations of the data I have stored in my brain throughout my life.

So... sure.. argue that god exists... BUT.. if you're talking about a 'someone' who can see us all, judge us all, etc. then there's probably little hope for logic, science, facts and evidence to sway you from something you were TAUGHT TO BELIEVE!!

Peace!!
 
  by: method_uk   09/03/2004 02:53 AM     
  method_uk  
 
To your comment I say:

Evolution is just a way for people who do not want to accept God as a way to explain how we came into being so that they can't be held responsible for their foolish and immoral actions.

I could also say:

Evolution is way to say we do not need the existance of any type of "God" in our lives and that everything around us came through a certain set of circumstances that can only occur when someone has won the lotery about a hundred thousand times.

I could also say:

Evolution is just a way to say that there can't be a "God" who made us from clay, and that there is no good or evil, that there is no right or wrong, that we all are in control of our lives, we are the product of a proper set of organisms that accumilated over the periods of billions of years, even if the chances of it are 1 and 10 to the 23rd power.

Evolution is proving that it is itself showing to be more and more inaccurate. The creator of the theory of evolution, even denounced his own creation and said it was not true.

I have tested the existance of God, and something happened in my life that people like you can never take away, and it sure wasn't an electrical response in my brain that stimulated biological systems in my body. It was real, and you can't change that.

In fact, it has been documented in a paper in my state's capital: A man came out and said, "If there is a "god" then he can strike me dead!" And wouldn't you know, he was struck dead right there and those around him were freaked. Not try and explain to me how his electrical impulses causes negative and positive particles to meet right there at that single location and only his biological timeclock was affected and the others were not.
 
  by: Urmac     09/03/2004 03:30 AM     
  @method_uk and @Urmac  
 
Simple. If there is God, then why innosent people who believe on God, suffer sometimes so cruel ways? I don't think God wants you to kill your own daughters because of honor... So answer. There is no God, there is no evidence of Him. Only some books written by some loonies.
 
  by: Venomi   09/03/2004 05:08 AM     
  Venomi  
 
The answer is quite simple: We have free will. If God simply interfered in all occurrances, he wouldn't be letting us live our own lives. We would merely be puppets. God didn't create man to be His puppet, but to worship Him. He gave us a choice to decide to do that or not.

The biggest piece of evidence that all evolutionists dismiss and many say is from evolution is everything around us; people and the universe and all that is in it. Without God, all these things are nothing. I cannot convince you otherwise. It takes an open mind to test and see if it is true or not. If you refuse to let any hint of possibility in, then you are being narrow-minded and biased. You say there is no evidence, but I say there is. You say by evolution we have people and the universe and all in them, I say it was created by the commanding voice of God. You say that that is not proof of God, I say it is proof of god. I haven't always been a Christian and was quite skeptical, but opened up to possiblities and have made my final decision, and have not regretted it over the past 5 years of my life.

God does not want, nor have I implied that, you should kill your daughter for honor. To honor God is to be obedient to God. Not doing something in the name of God, but being obedient to what God wants. If you don't believe in God, then you will never know.
 
  by: Urmac     09/03/2004 05:42 AM     
  @Venomi  
 
Abolute rubbish, sorry but you're typing absolute rubbish & the worst part of it is you actually believe what you're typing, it just proves that there are still people who haven't evolved past the primitive instinct to worship everything they don't understand as a god.
 
  by: Lucifer_The_Dark   09/03/2004 10:26 AM     
  @Lucifer_The_Dark  
 
I'm realist. I believe in science, i believe in evolution theory. Aging of the planet and history of humans have been proven by science. Bible and sciense have a great conflict on how old earth and humans are. How they evolved. Remember Darwin? He was accused of heretics because the evolution theory. Witch has now been proven by scientific facts. No God there. Unless he mayby pissed in the pool when life begane to evolve. :) Take science magazines and compare them to the bible or koran. See the difference? I believe what i see and is proven. God? pfff... just a drunken persons imagination when he wrote bible or kuran while intoxicated and people followed it. :P As they say, im mass, stupidy is multiplied. As in religion, we see the same. :D Hitler, Stalin, God, Jesus... Well.. I'm individual. I choose how i live and act. Not by religion. By normal law, ethics, consiousness and feelings. Show me a proof of God, i show you 10 proofs against it. We all die, but no-one goes to heaven or hell. Life simply ends.
 
  by: Venomi   09/03/2004 01:46 PM     
  Life simply ends?  
 
Okay, how did life get here? Oh, we evolved. How did the earth get here? Oh, it evolved also. How did the universe get here? It evolved too. Then where did all those molecules or whatever come from? They couldn't have just "been" there all that time, that doesn't make sense.

In order for someone to create something, there has to be something that exists, and that something has to be created. Can't make a car unless the parts to a car are made. So then where did the molecules come from that you say accumulated and formed what we know as evolutionary products? It had to be made at some point, don't you agree?

Since evolution says we formed over billions of years from something that existed long ago, it had to have taken someone to create those things that existed. Bah. I'm glad to know that all it took was a higher being to create something out of nothing.

Once again, I say look all around see. See the ground, the tress, the skies, the moon, the stars, the sun, and the people living around you; that is my proof that there is a God. When a baby is born, take a look at its beauty. A parent is happy when they have a child and marvel at what has been created. A precious thing like that, I can't accept it came from billions of years of 'evolving,' but from a Creator who took his time to create us, his most beautiful creation.

It's also interesting how you overlook that Darwin denounced evolution on his death bed, but you'll probably dismiss that as he was a delusional old man not knowing what he was doing, right?
 
  by: Urmac     09/03/2004 04:37 PM     
  @Venomi  
 
IraQ
Is the only Muslim controled country where women are a mans equal.
 
  by: firemedicntx   09/24/2004 09:43 PM     
  @urmac  
 
If that is true then who/what created your god?
 
  by: t_strimp   09/24/2004 10:38 PM     
  @firemedicntx  
 
There is NO country yet where women are equal to men. And Iran is no way near it if you look the human rights reports. Don't give me this bs. In Iran, you can still rape a girl and demand her to marry you for not to loose honor in front of family. "that would kill her if they knew she is no longer virgin"
 
  by: Venomi   09/24/2004 10:58 PM     
  @Urmac  
 
"I'm glad to know that all it took was a higher being to create something out of nothing."

and alas we come to a crucial point, nothing can come of nothing, therefore something has always been here if there is something here, and there is.

science says energy can neither be created nor destroyed, it can only change form.

engery can change from energy to matter and vice versa.


oh and this one just too funny to let slide.

"In fact, it has been documented in a paper in my state's capital: A man came out and said, "If there is a "god" then he can strike me dead!" And wouldn't you know, he was struck dead right there and those around him were freaked. Not try and explain to me how his electrical impulses causes negative and positive particles to meet right there at that single location and only his biological timeclock was affected and the others were not."

its funny because i have on tape george carlin saying "if there is a god let him strike me dead" then later saying "if there is a god let him strike this audience dead"... guess what neither happened.
 
  by: HAVOC666     09/24/2004 11:10 PM     
  Venomi  
 
I wasnt saying that at all. I agree with you on this subject. Any type of theocracy is purely BS. Especially if it uses the Sharia law. Jordan for example is a very moderate Muslim nation, Its ruler was educated in the US, but still lets family members kill their daughters to save the families honor.

Under the new government established in Iraq, which will be a democracy when we rid it of the terrorists, women will be, and already are equal.
 
  by: firemedicntx   09/25/2004 12:39 AM     
  @firemedicntx  
 
i guess we will see about that, might take alot long than mr. bush has though, war can last till passed 2008 at the rate bush is going, assuming he is re-elected.
 
  by: HAVOC666     09/25/2004 01:55 AM     
  da judge better not complain when CNN rolls around  
 
Heaven and Hell is not witnessed in the afterlife but in the present. Love have given us a way out of Hell and Sin has given us a way out of Heaven. We shall never blame the spiritual realms for our good luck or misfortunes for they do not control us, they only guide us through our journey in life. Those laws and jugdements will make it difficult to produce good human resources in his community. Making life for those that follow them very harsh until time takes it course and his actions destroy his environment thats what corrupt laws and govt's do. The guidance of negative spirits does not yield positive results. The light side will watch and prosper from those that leave themselves vulnerable. Her spirit has resided in us all that beared witness to her life's story. Pray for our brothers and sisters in Haiti, Kush, Ancient Babylon, and the Descendants of Ham.
 
  by: dalab   09/25/2004 06:38 AM     
  Typical  
 
And they wonder why we hate muslims...
 
  by: catbytes     12/03/2004 02:16 PM     
 
 
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