Post Election Poll: Over Half the World Thinks Bush is a Danger
The results of a poll of 21 countries suggests that over half the world believes the re-election of President Bush makes the world a more dangerous place. Only 3 countries - India, Poland and the Philippines - thought that it had been made safer.
No country supported their troops being in Iraq and 47% of the 21,953 people questioned see the US as having a negative influence in the world. They also view Americans in a similar way.
The greatest negativity came from Western European, Latin American and Muslim countries. Traditional allies such as Germany, France, Britain, Italy, Canada and Mexico were included in that group.
The Pm of Malaysia (very pro American Government) made a statement that wasn't reported in the Us (mainstream media) when all this started . He said that the current Us admin poses a greater threat to world peace that the Nazis.
Percentage of ppl who think the Bush re-election makes the world a more dangerous place:
Britain (64 percent), France (75 percent), and Germany (77 percent), Italy (54 percent) and Australia (61 percent), Turkey (82 percent), Mexico (58 percent).
Analysts said the poll had far-reaching implications, suggesting a serious rise in anti-U.S. feeling in general, with 42 percent saying it had made them feel worse about Americans compared to 25 percent who made it think more of them.
"Fully one in four British citizens say the Bush re-election has made them more opposed to sending troops to Iraq, resulting in a total of 63 per cent now opposed," said Doug Miller, president of GlobeScan which carried out the poll.
The survey was conducted between November 15, 2004 and January 5, 2005.
Now I expect that some will see this as just more of the same old passe US-bashing, but I really do not believe it is. The suprising part is that so many ppl appear to resent the US ppl, not just their government. Presumably thats simply because of the fact that they re-elected the missing link, not hing more. I dunno.
It's because they are so difficult to separate. US Gov elected by US People shows they agree with the policys. (Not necessarily the case. Although Bush makes the link) US People so gung ho (?) and prepared to f*ck everyone to look after themselves. (Yet at the same time we get massive aid donations from the public) You see we only see foreign policies that impact the world and have no interest in internal policies (except to laugh at of course) and you see the same for us.
I look at it the same way for the aussies. God knows what I will be thinking if Auntie Blair gets re-elected. The world will think the same of all of us.
indians only believe the bush admin is good because of his outsourcing policies and such. Its good for business and the indian economy. The poll most likely was conducted only in sections of the croud that have benifited from this outsourcing. But i can assure you that India or i should say Indians drfinatly do not support the bush admin
a random sampling, of 21 countries, equals over 1/2 the world... interesting... I can't imagine that over 1/2 of China's 1 billion people, many of whom have no knowledge of what's going on outside of their farming community, think that Bush is a danger... what selection process was used to identify people to poll? How many people were polled in each country? Less than 22,000 people were polled and these results were then applied to the other 5,999,978,000 people in the world.. interesting indeed...
watch the idiot Bill O'Reilly, but I saw him commenting on this story and he blaimed it all on the foreign media. Heaven forbid that his precious King George and the neo-cons have anything to do with it.
The UK is an ally out of duty - the white anglo-saxon connection, WWII, etc. Oh, and economics - we love them dollars (although I'm a euro person myself).
@sjava - China has 1.3 billion ppl (the official count as of last week) and I think that you're about 10 years out of touch if you think half those are in the paddy fields. I'm going there in March and visiting a huge city which was purpose-built to make what the west traditionally made, except faster and cheaper. The Chinese aren't some dumb underclass - you wouldn't happen to be from the US would you?? ;)
I don't think he was trying to imply that Chinese are stupid. But it is a fact that a majority of Chinese citizens are still farmers. While they do have very modern technology, it's everywhere. There are still villages afterall.
As for the PM of Mylasia saying what they said. It's not a matter of the media censoring it. It's just nobody cares. Can you honostly comapre the war in Iraq (which is definetly not pretty) with systematic killing of Jews and other minorities? Come on thats stupid. You don't need to like the war in Iraq, but just yelling "nazi" means little.
OK then, lets cut through the crap - what do you honestly think would have been the outcome had the Chinese had the opportunity to take part in the poll? Maybe because there are over a billion of them the US stood a good chance of clawing back some positive votes? Sjavaq's comment "I can't imagine that over 1/2 of China's 1 billion people, many of whom have no knowledge of what's going on outside of their farming community, think that Bush is a danger" makes little sense - the majority of Chinese would theoretically vote 'dont know' (the rural population), leaving the 40 million urban (educated) citizens to vote. You think they would vote pro-US?
The point of a poll is that you take a cross-section of the population and by doing so should theoretically get a result that is broadly representative of the world overall. This isn't an election where all votes count or a cencus - its a projected opinion poll.
As far as how the poll was carried out: PIPA interviewed randomly between 500 and 1,800 people in each of the 21 countries surveyed, plus 1,000 Americans, in face-to-face or telephone interviews.
The interviews took place between 15 November 2004 and 5 January 2005.
The margin of error is between 2.5 and 4 points, depending on the country.
I didn’t just yell Nazi ...I pointed out what the PM of Malaysia said. You say it wasn’t reported because nobody in the USA is concerned about the perception the rest of the world has of the US (now who’s being stupid) . Here’s something that you probably didn't pick it up at school either .Do you know How the Nazis justified all the atrocities in occupied territory during WW2 ??? Yep you guessed it, it was counter terrorism to protect its citizens or military from the terrorist acts (and some of them were) of the resistance …. sound familiar?????? So there is a comparison. Oh ! with the US it’s different because of the arms we are dealing with nowadays, world peace is the only issue but the survival of life on this planet itself, lets face it we’ve only in the last 2 years found out how the close the world came to nuclear war over the Cuban Missile crisis, next time we may not all be so lucky.(Basically the world was saved from nuclear destruction because a Russian submarine commander refused to follow orders , bet ya didn’t know that little gem ?? oh and Kennedy was addicted to speed while he was negotiating with the Soviet Union at the time, and the USSR didn't back down they cut a deal with R.F.K , not reported I suppose because nobody cares about the details .)
“Can you honestly compare the war in Iraq (which is definitely not pretty) with systematic killing of Jews and other minorities”
Yeah , how do you see it , 10 years of starvation caused by a blockade and sanctions , during the ten year period prior to the actual war 5,000 people died every month in Iraq due to lack of clean drinking water , medical supplies , food etc (which of course had the opposite effect the US expected and pushed the population closer to Saddam). The US was flying over 30,000 sorties a year over the country in “peace time” (also not widely reported over there) and why all the bombs … I mean if you believe what you see on Fox it’s all laser guided bombs dropped on military targets right ….wrong again its good old fashioned bombs dropped on civilian areas (fragmentation bombs at that despite the ban on their use ) oh and aren’t they considered a WMD ? (Obviously not when Uncle Sam has em) .
Things don't get reported in the US a lot like the fact that it is the only country not to join the UN's International condemnation of International Terrorismor or that the world court ( they don't come any higher :-) has condemed the US for state sponsored terrorism ... did you know that ......... do you care that the rest of the world is pointing at you and saying "terrorist" and not at Iraq ????
in China voted, all 1.3 billion of them, the majority of the vote would be 'I could care less'. China could give a damn about what's going on in Iraq and the U.S. Up until the kidnapping of eight Chinese yesterday, you couldn't find China's opinion on the war. A Chinese news site I frequent http://www.xinhuanet.com/ has articles on Iraq and how the progress over there is going, but no opinions. That's all it is over there, just news, nothing of any more interest. That is of course until yesterday, so maybe now the vote will be more skewed towards anti-Bush, but my guess is they would blame it more on the kidnappers than the U.S.
You misunderstand - they didnt poll half of the world. They polled 21 countries and on the results theoretically half the world think Bush is a danger. To actually poll half the world would have taken forever, by which time we'd be talking about other things (eg. "remember back in the old days when Iran had mountains and cities? those nukes certainly had an effect. Oooooo a poll from 2005 - wow, but its 2010 now!").
I know China intimately, I spent almost all of 1998 and the first 6 months of 1999 living there while I was working for my company. You say you're going to be in a big city, wonderful for you. The people living in the cities make up a fraction of the total population of the country. Sure, China has advanced technologically, etc. but that does not mean that the tech is affordable to the common citizen. Depending on what city you go, try and get out of the commercialized area that you'll most likely be staying in, try and see how the vast majority of the Chinese live. Remember, the cheaper products that they make translate into much lower wages, and the costs of the technology aren't any lower. Most importantly, have fun and enjoy yourself while you're there, it was an experience I'll never forget. What city are you going to be in btw?
Wow! Not a little jaded there, are we? Hmmm...seems to me those santions weren't from the U.S., but the U.N. And there is the funny little scandle going on that other nations on the security council, with the exception of the U.S, had a decided financial interest (a la Oil-for-food) in keeping those sanctions around for as long as possible. So basically, those sanctions were held in place by those that opposed the war to get money at the direct suffering of the Iraqi people.
And those 50,000 sorties...yeah, there were folwn to help keep Saddam from killing these people know as the Kurds (you may have hear of them.) It was called the "no-fly" zone and was going to be in place until the Iraqis complied with the terms of the cease-fire (which they never did and would never do as long as the Oil-for-Food kickbacks kept flowing.)
And who paid for those sorties? The U.N? The French? The Germans? The Russians?
Nope, the U.S. and the U.K. We tried to enforce the policy, while the rest of the world stood there doing nothing (as usual, and all the while lining their pockets with ill-gotten money that was suppose to help the Iraqis.
So get off your soapbox, cause nobodys buying what your selling.
It must be nice to live in a world where reality is so fully substituted with precooked propaganda designed to make you feel like a good little patriot.
http://www.elitestv.com/ When the US acts, it does so to serve US interests. Helping the kurds? Gimme a break. Where is the US in Darfur? We have a lot more people there who need help. It's a real shame they don't have oil in Darfur.
Personally I'm one of those guys who have been completely and utterly disillutioned by the reckless, selfserving policy of the US.
You can choose not to care about this, or you can also choose to think about why a guy like me, a guy who loved and admired the US when Clinton was in, now despises the US and has real fears about what the US might do to the world next. And I'm not some islamic terrorist guy, I'm just a regular joe with a 9-5 job who lives in scandinavia.
i must confess, for awhile during these post, i was getting mighty flustered at all the U.S. are a bunch of nazis crap, but after reading how many ppl in here actually admired/loved/respected clinton, i sure do feel better. That right there just goes to show how either biased or fruity you guys really are. Forget Chinagate where he betrayed his country. Forget the Arkansasides where ppl were murdered that were gonna testify against him. And MOST importantly forget that HE had the same chance to deal with Saddam, but instead was too busy chasing 25 year old interns.
A case of convient memory perhaps or are all your role models so shady? Has anyone here e-mailed or (gasp) actually written a letter to their representatives to recomend a differant course of action? Maybe pick up a phone, so your voice can be heard? Nah, you might get a differant reaction then by posting at www.ihateus.sn How brave of you!
You may now return to your regularly scheduled whining.
F*ck statistics, I never care for them cause the'yre not accurate to any means.
We should just go back into being almost isolated from the rest of the world, like we were back before world war. f*ck the rest of the world, you help them they bitch, you dont help, they bitch the only people we should even consider talking to is our allies and we should disband from the united nations and go our own way.
Since when does the US give a flying f about the Kurds . Is that what they are telling you back there .
1 The US under Clinton supported Turkey in a massive slaughter of Kurds during the 90's by selling them huge amounts of military hardware and training .
2 The Us supported Saddam al the way through his slauhter of the Kurds as well
...reading all these posts, is that the majority of those poor americans still don't understand a damn thing about the wolrd outside their fenced borders. The question to ask yourselves is not "why does this fu@§#ng world hate us", but "what did we do to make the rest of the world hate us"... If you all tried to get news from other sources than your national ones, you might get another view of the world, and of your own nation. Being so arrogant, selfish, bloodthirsty for money and oil, egocentric and violent does help being feared, but not being beloved. It's funny to see that some countries deserve more help than others. We did not see that much of those famous "GI" heroes getting their butt kicked for yougoslavian democracies (serbia, bosnia, kosovo,...). Oh, i forgot... there's no oil in kosovo... But there's plenty of it in the Gulf. I suggest to those young patriotic 'ricans they should watch some documentaries about the foreign politics of their country, like "Secret wars of the CIA", "Wars of the Bush", and even ones about their own internal politics, like the ones of Michael Moore "Roger and Me", "Bowling for Columbine", just to see how you really look like on TV, just to see what your big companies really think of yourselves (just like other big companies of the rest of the world, btw). Don't just receive the information, go and look for it...
Do you really believe that America has a better life for Iraqi people at the top of their objective list? Take a look at what the Us state department said in 1945 about the resources in the region. Oh and take a look at Americas role in the UN sanctions.... it's quite interesting the more you dig into it.
How does dropping fragmentation bombs on civilian targets enforce policy, is that your understanding of international politics , do what we say or else ???
And why when you say anything about the so pathetically transparent Us policy in the region the only defense you get thrown in your face is the oil for food scam . I don't support that either.... .it's interesting how Media like fox trains people to use these tactics , need proof just take a look at any time someone points out a fact about US actions (usually someone jumps in to defend their Nation , right or wrong ,and all they can come up with is oil for food , I bet that's getting a load of air time in the US it must be cause it pops up constantly on SN . And what soapbox are you on about you’re in an internet forum (you just joined so you may not be aware (and from your posts you are unaware of quite a few things) that an internet forum is a soapbox , or at least a modern version of one )
Myth: "Sanctions are not intended to harm the people of Iraq." (U.S. State Department, March 2000)
Fact: Several United States Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) documents prove, in the words of one author, "beyond a doubt that, contrary to the Geneva Convention, the U.S. government intentionally used sanctions against Iraq to degrade the country's water supply after the Gulf War. The United States knew the cost that civilian Iraqis, mostly children, would pay, and it went ahead anyway." (The Progressive, August 2001)
One document entitled "Iraq Water Treatment Vulnerabilities," dated January 22, 1991, is quite straightforward in how sanctions will prevent Iraq from supplying clean water to its citizens. Failing to secure equipment and chemicals, these items (which is nearly impossible to do under the sanctions), the documents adds, will result in a shortage of drinking water and could "lead to increased incidences, if not epidemics, of disease." (U.S. Department of Defense, January 1991)
The U.S. government was not only aware of the devastation of the sanctions, but was monitoring their progress. The first in a lengthy series of documents entitled "Disease Information" is a document whose heading reads "Subject: Effects of Bombing on Disease Occurrence in Baghdad." Another document cites a UNICEF/ WHO report that "the quantity of potable water is less than five percent of the original supply," that "there are no operational water and sewage treatment plants," and that diarrhea and respiratory infections are on the rise. Almost as a sidenote, it adds, "Children particularly have been affected by these diseases." (US Dept. of Defense, March 1991).
Good info, rory. You can't beat hard facts over rhetoric to convincingly win an argument. Ppl retort with soundbites and popularist statements (trying to belittle the UN by gragging it thru the oil-for-food muck for instance) but seldom come up with these sorts of hard facts and figures.
Two words initially: air mask Guangzhou is not only a big city, but it's also a very pretty city - once the winds blow the pollution out of the air so you can see... That's one of the things you'll notice about many of the big cities in China, is that the air quality from late Saturday through mid-Monday is usually pretty good, then it gets progressively worse until the weekend when the factories are shut down, coal burning furnaces and boilers tend to do that though.. many of the cities are getting better, so it's not quite as bad as it was even ten years ago...
Hong Kong is a great city, I highly recommend getting out of the touristy areas, walk around and explore.. if you're there for a weekend and have free time, there's some really cool city tours you can take, they'll take you to some of the old ruins, a Buddhist temple, etc. Depending on if you're staying on Victoria Island or the mainland, there's a bunch of stuff to do, clubs to go to, etc. Most hotels with a restaurant have a house band that performs at night, usually a Filipino band generally doing pop music covers, but you can occasionally find a Chinese singer doing songs in Cantonese or Mandarin.
I had a lot of free time on weekends, and spent probably 3 months total in Hong Kong, there's all sorts of neat little restaurants and whatnot off the main streets, good food at incredibly low prices, unfortunately most of the people in these places speak no english so it's best if you know how to say what you want in Chinese ;) or you could do like I've done in the past and just pick random food items.. all depends on how well your stomach will handle the food..
Victoria Island is where the majority of the British colonials lived when Britain ruled Hong Kong, there's some really nice houses and architecture there. There's a few beaches on the ocean side of the island, with some hotels built into the side of the cliffs/mountains, very neat to see.
I'm assuming this is a trip for work? If so, most likely your company will have someone from your office there assigned as a kind of tour guide while you're there, you can always ask them about the best markets in the area to go to. Be prepared to bargain with all vendors, you can get some great deals. Don't buy suits from anyone on the streets who come up to you. If you're interested in very good quality suits, shirts, etc. There's a tailor at the Holiday Inn Golden Mile in Tsim Tsa Shui/Kowloon that I use, Ramesh at Harilela's. I got 4 suits, 8 shirts and 2 extra pairs of pants for US$1000, shipped back to my house in the States in two separate boxes to avoid customs. Everything still fits and looks great 5 years later.
Make sure you're current on your vaccinations and have some pills for stomach ailments and other nasties. Hong Kong and Guangzhou are both in the more tropical areas, as such there's all those lovely diseases to catch.
I spent all of two weeks in Taiwan only, so I don't really have much to offer there.
whew... I think that's about it unless you've got specific questions..
Thanks for the info. I've been to HK twice now (my folks used to live there) but that was before the handover and I've heard its even better since the Chinese took control. I vaguely remember going to Pussycats, a nightclub frequented by various women of ill-repute, although I never 'tested the water'.
China should be interesting, but its going to be all work and little play, although I've heard that they like doing business over meals so I'm hoping to get stuck into plenty of decent food - mmmm Chinese is one of my favorites :)
I've never been to Taiwan but the two colleagues that are comming with me have been there twice before in the last few years so they're fairly familiar with the place.
