Wilson County child-court judge Barry Tatum insisted that an immigrant Mexican woman take classes in English, an order that has prompted calls of unconstitutional action.
Tatum said: "I'm concerned about the civil rights of the child and what will happen to her" and that was worried for the woman’s two-year-old daughter who might miss opportunities due to her mothers inability to speak the English language.
Civil rights attorney Jerry Gonzalez said this incident was familiar an earlier order handed down by Tatum in which a woman was ordered to learn basic English in six months or have her rights as a parent terminated.
I wouldn't Go to another country and not learn ...
the language. But being forced to is different. Not heard that before. I understand how some people think that they would lose their identity of their people if the primary language they used shifted. Culturally of course.
Is there a right to remain ignorant. We can do it with sexual education but I don't think this has the moral objections that sex ed does for some people. Just the loss of culture.
But I don't think that learning travellers phrases will bleach your heritage roots. Doesn't have to writes sonnets or anything but enough to move about in a country. Communication can be important. I don't think she would pass a driving test if she can't read the signs. Just a little more english that that though. But I don't agree with taking kids because you do not speak english. "rights as a parent terminated" who does this judge think he is? Why don't you also sterilize her so she can't have more kids like a Mentally handy-capped person USED to have happen to them in the '20s.
Judge Tatums mind apperently believes that no knowledge of english is far worst than any mental imperaty. Moron.
that was a different case, but i di agree about that case. however here no such condition was put on the judgement, and i agree with the ruling. when you emmigrate to a country the first thing to do if you havent yet is learn the language. the government has no obligations to pay extra for manpower for the people too lazy to learn the language. now for when people first emmigrate i understand the lack of knowalage of the language, in this case english, but as a citizen it is your duty to learn the language spoken. the only problem with the cinstitution is that it lays out guidelines for what the government can and cant do as well as the avradge joe, but not what HAS to be done by the citizens, and i do believe that some things should be compulsitory
The judge only stated, the woman have to learn english. He sifd nothing about payment. I dont know, if parents could be forced to leave the us when a child is born there. Maybe such rule could be etablished.
the payment is comming from the tax payers thats why. and i did not mean that the people should be deported, although that is an interesting idea, although there should be a min. of like 3-5 years before ant test is administered. having immigrated to israel at the age of 13 1/2, over 10 years ago, so i do understand the immigrents side here
if you plan on living and using our money than use OUR language. I am very frustrated with the mexicans that come into my store and im trying to help them and i can NOT understand them hardly at all. One couple i remember had to have their 12 year old son translate everything they said to me.... i basically turned them away and told the kid that he needs to have his parents learn english. If i were to go live in mexico, i would need to learn spanish, or any language that was the dominate language. It just gets on my nerves how many mexicans (mexicans because that is the dominate culture here where im from) can not speak hardly ANY english. or JUST enough to get a few very choppy questions out, than he turns to his friend and speaks spanish and has me stand there not understanding a word hes saying. Than ask me in hardly understandable english. I just think people that come to OUR country should learn the language of our culture, and not have us try to understand and burn our brains out understanding them.
I am an immigrant from England. But there are some significant language differences. For example in England I could say:
"First I'm going to suck a fag then put a faggot in my mouth and chew."
Clearly in America that would cause offense, but in England a fag is a cigarette and a faggot is a large soft meatball.
In America I could threaten to slap my child's fanny. In England the fanny is slang for female private parts. Slapping it would clearly be inappropriate for discipline.
There are countless more examples of words and phrases that are different. Americans also shall we say 'modify' accepted English grammatical constraints in their language.
As a legal permanent alien I feel that it is my duty to fully understand the American use of the language and use the appropriate expressions when conversing with them. It would be disgusting for me to expect America to change to suit my British sensibilities.
Although learning American English is not a huge leap from speaking English if I were to go and live in France I would learn to speak French. I find it offensive and arrogant to move to another country and refuse to learn to fit in (which includes, but it not limited to learning the language).
On my various visits to the INS to collect my Green Card I found that of all the races there from all the different countries, Mexicans seemed to be the least willing to fit in and cooperate, and expected everyone to know Spanish (or at least their corrupted version of Spanish). I'm not trying to be racist here, but if they are going to come here to seek a better life, then they should do so by embracing what it is to be American and not isolate themselves.
I like your attitude on this subject. You are right. And I believe the judge is right in this case as well. Of all the different races of people I have come into contact with in my line of work. The only people Ive had trouble with as far as language, are Mexican. The United States bends over backwards for Mexicans here, even illegals, so they can get on welfare. Providing them with translators at our expense. Forcing the rest of the populous to deal with their laziness. On top of all this, I have witnessed these people and their apparent disregard for others while they converse insultingly about non-mexican speaking people in their own pseudo-latino made up dialect that sometimes only their own family can understand. A person speaking "mexican" in California is speaking a different language than the "mexican" here in Texas. As some of you have already stated, were I to move, or even travel abroad to another country, I would do my best to learn the language and fit in as much as possible. To do otherwise would be very ignorant and irresponsible on my part. Dont worry zct, most of us wouldnt mind if you were to suck on a fag, we would probably call you a meatball cause its bad for you. lol
I would be ashamed of myself if I failed to even try to learn the language. I moved from the US to a country in the Baltics and am now studying an ancient and difficult language. If I want to live here indefinetly I have to prove to the government that I can speak at least a 'level 1' version of the language. I am married and we plan on having children. I do not want to rely on my kids to have to translate for me.
But, face facts... classes cost money and poor immigrants, legal or otherwise, can't afford them.
The judge mentioned in the article is out-of-bounds because he has no authority to make someone learn a language, however, I believe other branches of government have the right to test someone for their language skills for the countries working-language.
So, is this judge going to revoke the parental rights of every person who speaks inproper english? Redneckese, Ebonics, hooked-on-phonics, and basic dumbass english? There are thousands of people in Tennessee, the state where this Judge rules, who can't speak coherently and be understood outside of their own region.
i dont know how it woks in the US when you emmigrate, but in israel the government not only pays for the classes to learn hebrew, they pay you fo going to them for the first 6 months in the country after emmigration. i am supprised to hear the US is different in that respect. if the government were to give a small subsidy to those who attend classes and learn at least a basic knowalage of the language then it might not be in the same prediciment.
a land where you can learn whatever the hell language you want. since when can the state force you to learn a different language? Or how about we look at it from a different point of view... Let's say you live in a spanish speaking neighborhood, but you don't know spanish. You get into quarrels with the neighbors constantly over things because you don't understand each other. Finally someone takes you to court, where the judge tell you that if you're gonna live there, you have to learn spanish?
the difference is that english is the official language if the US. you are free to learn and speak any language that you want, but english is the official language, and all official transactions should (99% are) be conducted in english. and as for your example if i were to move into a neighborhood where people spoke predominitly spannish, i would make an effort to learn spannish in order to get along with my neighbors. maybe i just consider myself a responsible human bieng, or maybe i am just weird, but who cares
Come on folks, even I as a foreign immigrant accept this! Heck, Spanish is offician in Mexico! And you dont see people arguing about how English is not respected as a language! ITs about how things need to run!
I think the judge is actually making this lady a favor, and if she disregards it, she and her daughter will be the ones suffering.
If you're going to live in a country that uses a different language to your own it's your responsibility to learn the language or go back home, it's not as if the facilities for learning aren't there because they are easily accessible by anyone who wants to.
Sweden was short on employers and the industrie want foreign ppl to work. The swedish governement hast laid out one rule: If you will have foreig ppl you have to pay a 240 h schoo to lean the language and you have to pay. It works just fine.
English is not america's offical language. please tell me were in the constitution does it say that? America is a "melting pot" of culture. Not an one race one language country. Melting pot, many races, and many many languages.
If he told her in English then she couldn't understand! Hahahaha.
This mother needs to at least learn basic grammar so she can function long-term in her adopted country, otherwise she is doing a disservice to herself and her family. Even if she learns enough to speak like Tarzan, that's a good thing.
I've been studying the language of my new adopted country for over a year, and I basically sound like a stoned Tarzan, which is still great as far as everyone else is concerned. They really appreciate it when I try speak in the local language and I enjoy life here much more.
Most importantly, I have less problems with interacting in society--- if a judge (or a cop...yikes) talks to me I can understand them and reply.
I can ask for help in an emergency situation.
I recently was told, by a friend working in a New Mexico sherrif's office, about a Russian truck-driver who was jailed and fined because he hadn't done proper paperwork regarding his cargo. He just didn't understand the procedure and failed to meet safety protocols.
(you would be suprised about the numbers of non-American truckdrivers there are in the US)
What's the language the US Declaration of Independence is written in? How about the Constitution? How about every single bit of currency? English is the official language whether you like it or not.
Yes, America is a melting pot. This is one reason why American English has evolved so much, by absorbing other languages words into it. But it is still basically English.
If he told her in English then she couldn't understand! Hahahaha.
This mother needs to at least learn basic grammar so she can function long-term in her adopted country, otherwise she is doing a disservice to herself and her family. Even if she learns enough to speak like Tarzan, that's a good thing.
I've been studying the language of my new adopted country for over a year, and I basically sound like a stoned Tarzan, which is still great as far as everyone else is concerned. They really appreciate it when I try speak in the local language and I enjoy life here much more.
Most importantly, I have less problems with interacting in society--- if a judge (or a cop...yikes) talks to me I can understand them and reply.
I can ask for help in an emergency situation.
I recently was told, by a friend working in a New Mexico sherrif's office, about a Russian truck-driver who was jailed and fined because he hadn't done proper paperwork regarding his cargo. He just didn't understand the procedure and failed to meet safety protocols.
(you would be suprised about the numbers of non-American truckdrivers there are in the US)
are they not treating immigrants like every other country does?? Why should every official document in the US be translated into 253 languages? Where do you draw the line at which languages need to be translated? English is the predominant language in the US, as countless others have said, if I go to another country it would be ludicrous of me to expect them to change everything into english, why should the US? The UK is getting to be just as big a "melting pot" as the US is, and yet there's no outcry about them not translating everything into all sorts of languages. It's a vocal, lazy, whiny minority who want to be catered to that's causing the uproar.
Erected by immigrants,it is what it is today by capitalizing on hard-work that immigrants bring, am dominican living in massachusetts so i know how it goes down.
ilegal immigrants who just want to make a living here to send money to their families back in their poor countrys will work for much-lower-then the minimum wage in order to support themselfs and families,i come from the Dominican Republic, my mother came here thru marriage with an american man to get her papers and bring me and my other 2 brothers here, she supports us and her family back in D.R so i kind of know what this lady is going thru......Sorry for the bad english.
@MmmMan the difference is that tourists are only visiting, and not expected to learn the language, and residents are. think about it, how many times have you visited a different country and gotten gouged when paying for something.
@rampulstinski
having emmigrated to israel, i understand the problem, more over if o sense that a person is really trying to learn the language, i will go above and beyond the call of duty to help them when i can, as i understand their position. when i first moved here my hebrew was almost non existant, and i broke me teeth speaking to israelis for about two years untill i could speak fluently, and i have respect for those who try, those who don't try on the other hand, i am courtious to, but that is about as far as i go
But that doesnt mean you are required to learn it to live here. You can't be deported for not knowing english, and as long as you're a legal citizen here, you can't be ordered to learn it either. you guys who support this must be the same idiots who said that the 1st amendment is not important, on the other SN thread. Freedom of speech, no matter what language!!!
America has no official language, and I can't believe that people keep saying it does! America is a country of immigrants, just keep that in mind. If it weren't for immigrants, none of us would be here (sans any Native Americans that may be on this forum, although, they are also in a sense, immigrants, since they came from Asia).
Q:What is the national language of the United States? A:English. So why is it not required that in order to retain residency (green card, visa, work permit, etc.) in the United States that you actually speak the national language? Somebody else needs to answer that one, because I still can't figure it out...
Official or not, I for one find it extremely rude and aggravating for anyone to come to this country (which I gave up 22 years of my life to defend) and think we owe them ANYTHING whatsoever, much less refuse to learn our language and simply expect us to accomodate their lazy butt. If living in a country where you native language is spoken is so important to you, GO BACK WHERE YOU CAME FROM!!! We will even send you there...it would be a heck of a lot cheaper than supporting you for the rest of your life on welfare. In the United States of America, we do things in ENGLISH just like we have done for over 200 years. Whether you (or anyone) likes it or not, that is fact supported by history and it is a little late to try to rewrite it now. To the best of my knowledge, every Federal law on the books is drafted, debated, and voted on in the English language. The Declaration of Independence was written in English. The Constitution of the United States is in English (though sometimes liberal judges are trying to change that too!!!). Sorry, but that is plenty official for me.
While we are at it, I might as well throw out one other little tidbit. I personally think we should close our borders to ALL immigrants (especially the ones who are too lazy to speak English). If they want what we have fought over 200 years to achieve, let them change their own country...we will gladly give them the plans to follow. The way it stands today, in my opinion, a lot of people in the world would rather just step right in at the top rather than fight their way up. IT JUST DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY! Trying to bring everyone into the way of life we have achieved without living through any of the pain simply hurts OUR way of life. How you ask? It is actually very simple, to really appreciate what you have at the top, you need to understand and embrace it. You can't just walk in off the street and appreciate the finer points of life...and with that lack of understanding and appreciation comes ill will toward the very system you are trying to come to. If you don't like the way WE run OUR country, then GO BACK TO YOUR OWN!!!
Then the first time her kid gets sick & she can't make the doctors understand what's wrong & the kid dies then you'll be all over her saying she should have learnt to speak English.
Anyway, no-one so far has actually said she shouldn't try to learn the language of her adopted country. It's the fact that a judge has ordered her to do so that has people up in arms. Could a judge order me to learn to drive a car? "Then the first time her kid gets sick & she can't take it to the doctor quick enough & the kid dies then you'll be all over her saying she should have learnt to drive."
if someone is acting with extreme negligence, then yes the court does have the right to do thath. can a judge commit a person to a mental institution? yes. the principleis the same. i do not think most people should be ordered to do things, however in some cases it is needed, and who is to say that here is not one of those cases. i did not see the transcripts of the trial, nor any real information (other then the articles, but those dont count, third hand info isnt reliable) so i do not presume to say one way or the other here, but i say give the judge the benifit of the doubt, he was there, we weren't (or at least i wasnt ;-) )
Personally, mine is American-Swedish. My mother was naturalized in 1984, at Monticello, the home of Thomas Jefferson.
What we fought for and 'defended' over the past two hundred years is written on the tablet held by Lady Liberty which welcomes the world to join our great nation, if they want to.
It's really anti-American to hate immigrants and close our borders to the rest of the world. You should move to Cuba or North Korea, buddy. They think along your line.
What I am saying is I don't like the idea of people coming here to get away from some other country and then act as though we as American's owe them something. We speak English...if you want to be part of US then fit in. If you want to hang on to your old heritage, including language, then go back where it is the norm. Don't come here and just expect everyone here to change to make you feel more comfortable.
Amen! I agree with you. If the non-english speaking, Lazy, illegal aliens dont like that. Then they can kiss my mixed breed American Butt, in whatever language they choose. HAHAHAHA!
I agree with most people here, that people need to learn the language of their host country if they expect to function in society (and in this case, raise a family).
Quoting you: 'While we are at it, I might as well throw out one other little tidbit. I personally think we should close our borders to ALL immigrants (especially the ones who are too lazy to speak English).'
This is for those of you who think that English is NOT the official language of the country and is NOT required to be learned. I shall refrain from calling certain people on this forum bad names... *cough*
Eligibility Requirements for U.S. Citizenship (Naturalization)
The immigrant is age 18 or older. (Children can apply using a different form. Use the free INS Experts Eligibility Quiz to decide which INS form to use.)
The immigrant is a permanent resident (has a Green Card) now and during all of the past 5 years. There are exceptions exceptions to this requirement.
Continuous residence requirement: An alien must reside in the United States for a continuous period prior to the filing of the naturalization application. If an alien is not married to an American citizen, he must reside in the U.S. for a continuous period of five years after lawful admission to the U.S. as a permanent resident. If an alien is married to a U.S. citizen, he must reside in the U.S. for a continuous period of three years following lawful admission to the U.S. as a permanent resident.
A prolonged absence from the U.S. will break the continuity of the alien's residence in the U.S. for naturalization purposes, although it may not affect the alien's ability to return to the U.S. as a permanent resident. An absence from the U.S. of less than six months does not break the alien's continuity of residence in the U.S. for naturalization purposes. However, an alien's absence from the U.S. of six months or more breaks an alien's continuity of residence. If the break is from six months to one year, the break can be excused if a reasonable explanation can be given for the alien's absence (e.g. overseas employment). If the break is over a year, an alien's continuity of residence can be preserved, and the break can be excused, if steps are taken prior to the expiration of a year abroad to preserve the residence and certain qualifications are met. There are exceptions to this requirement.
Physical Residence Requirement: An alien applying for naturalization must physically reside in the U.S. for one half the period of continuous residence required within the period required for continuous residence. For aliens who are married to a U.S. citizen, the alien must have been physically present in the United States accumulatively for eighteen months within three years prior to the date of filing the application. For aliens not married to a U.S. citizen, the alien must have been physically present in the United States accumulatively for thirty months within five years prior to the date of filing the naturalization application. This requirement is cumulative but not continuous. An alien can leave and come back to the United States within the three or five years as much as he wants as long as he does not break continuity of residence, and as long as his total time spent in the United States adds up to eighteen or thirty months. There are exceptions to this requirement.
The immigrant has resided in his or her current state for at least 3 months. The immigrant's current state is the state where he or she is submitting the application for naturalization There are exceptions to this requirement.
The immigrant has not broken any immigration law. The immigrant has not been ordered to leave the US.
The immigrant has not been a member of the Communist Party at any time during the past 10 years. There are exceptions to this requirement.
The immigrant can show at least 5 years of good moral character. The immigrant believes in the principles of the US constitution. More details about this requirement are available.
The immigrant can speak, understand, read, and write simple English during an INS interview. There are exceptions to this requirement.
The immigrant can pass the INS test on US history and government. There are exceptions to this requirement.
The immigrant can take an oath of allegiance to the United States.
