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10/03/2005 06:09 AM ID: 50482 Permalink   

"Life" May Actually Mean Just That


It is increasingly more frequent to see people convicted to "Life in Prison" actually dying there.

The New York Times has looked into the issue, and says that a few decades ago Judges handing out like sentances expected the criminal to stay behind bars for 10 to 20 years, now life is beginning to mean just that.

The New York Times found that 132,000 inmates (1 in 10) are currently serving a "life" sentence, with 28% of those having no chance for parole.

    WebReporter: the_vor Show Calling Card    
ASSESS this news: BLOCK this news. Reason:
  This kind of thing....  
...should not fall under the catagory of, "Boy...I know that's what I said, but I really didn't mean it.

Does anyone else find it odd that judges were senticing people to jail "For Life" and expecting them to get out early? I remember not too terribly long ago (say 10-15 years) there being all kinds of people upset about people who were sentenced "For Life" being let out early for misc reasons. And they had the right to be. Someone who is committed to prison "for life" should probably be expected to stay there. True, maybe there may be some extenuating circumstances, but that is what we have parole boards for. Maybe it's just me but it does seem odd...
  by: the_vor   10/03/2005 06:58 AM     
"...Someone who is committed to prison 'for life' should probably be expected to stay there..."

No other first world (I dare not say "civilized" of those who advocate locking up without trial and torture of humans) country than the US that I can think of, and I have studied the laws of quite a few, has a "life sentence" more than 25 years - And they also do not combine punishments - A murderer will get 25 years for killing one, or ten people.

Of course, many are deemed unfit to return to society by several seperate psychiatric examinations, and are kept in, more free and open for scrutiny, mental asylums - but certainly not in a prison system, and certainly not one as disgusting as the US's Prison 'Jungle' - one of abuse and torture without law or rights, that many countries no longer even extradite to...
  by: Beryl   10/03/2005 11:11 AM     
Maybe you should try to restudy. Your ideas are hugely flawed and incorrect. The U.S. prison system doesn't lock anyone up without trial and they certainly don’t combine sentences. Each crime carries its own sentence.

"of those who advocate locking up without trial and torture of humans) country than the US that I can think of"

I can only guess you are referring to Abu Gharaib prison. That isn't the U.S. prison system and is run the military. You also need to study much more if you couldn't find any other country that’s military confines those it deems military threats. Look at Russia, China, and most others.
  by: YourKiddingRight   10/03/2005 11:50 AM     
Tell me about American CITIZEN Joseph Padilla. What are the CHARGES against him? What EVIDENCE was presented during his TRIAL? What was he CONVICTED of? How many years is he SENTENCED to? What are his VISITING hours? When you get done with that please get on your knees and bow towards Washington DC and King George. Your KING now has the power to lock up any US citizen without charges, without evidence, without a trial, without a hearing, just by his word alone, and yes, that does include you. Welcome to fascist Amerika.
  by: Valkyrie123     10/03/2005 02:58 PM     
"The U.S. prison system doesn't lock anyone up without trial"

Yeah they do. Haven't you ever heard of Kevin Mitnick? He was imprisoned w/o charge or access to counsel for four years. Have you heard of Jose Padilla? He has been imprisoned for three years w/o being charged or having any access to counsel. There are and will be many more now that there is the 'Patriot' Act. It basically allows anyone, anywhere to be arrested and imprisoned w/o trial, with a lawyer, without being able to contact their family, etc. for as long as the government wants even if there is no evidence that they did anything wrong.
  by: treyjazz   10/03/2005 03:10 PM     
As your most stupid lies have been replied to already, I'll try to only reply to those that haven't yet.

"they certainly don’t combine sentences. Each crime carries its own sentence."+
I could easily point out 20 US prisoners with over 100Years combined sentences, that's combining sentences, and other countries don't do that. In the US if you shoot one person you get a set amount, if you shoot two, it doubles, and so on. That doesn't exist elsewhere.

"I can only guess you are referring to Abu Gharaib prison. That isn't the U.S. prison system and is run the military."
No, I meant normal citizens, thankfully other have pointed out a few landmark cases already where normal US citizens have been locked up, without charge, for months, without question and without compensation. As for torture, I could point out US cases, cases where they deport to outer countries for torture, US torture camps and practices (even point out a nice BBC documentary on the subject, as they're all well known and proven facts)... But thankfully others seem to be doing this, so I won't waste my breath on such an ignorant mind.

"Look at Russia, China, and most others."
Russia and China are the only large countries similar to the US in that the citizens don't even have the right to not have their phone calls recorded, and who actively openly perform attrocities against their own people; I also don't consider them civilized, and quite rightly so.

Now, just so you realise; You have no rights. You have no freedoms. Every phone call you make, every thing you purchase, every internet site you visit every place you travel to, and every event you participate in can be recorded and indexes without your permission or knowledge and stored indefinately due to the lack of personal privacy or protection laws, and in part the Patroit Act.

You can be arrested and held without trial for an indefinate amount of time, even denied visitors and a lawyer at any time on secret evidence that does not need to ever be released (I can think of several cases of this right off the top of my head from the past few years).

Cowboy policemen who do not need to record all of their actions can simply beat you to confess to a crime and later simply say they didn't - Same as in the prison system, where corruption and torture are so common, even inmates against inmates, that many countries no longer extradite to the US and instead will hold the prisoner in their own country due to the incredible mistreatments.

Hopefully you're not too ignorant to just look some of what I said up; it's all easily available from multiple respectible sources a few clicks away.
  by: Beryl   10/03/2005 03:37 PM     
Do you mean the same Joseph Padilla that stole the Boeing 727 that he illegally modified to be a fuel tanker with intent to use as another terrorist flying bomb?... You will have to do better than that.

The questions you asked have been answered in more than a few places but I am more than sick of spoon feeding people with facts that are easily available. One thing is for sure, this particular person should stay behind bars. The theft of the aircraft is plenty of reason. The fact of what he intended to use it for is 1000 times more than enough. Maybe if this man had burned one of your family members to death in a building somewhere first with this flying bomb your tune would be a little bit different.

Show me someone that isn’t up their neck in criminal or terrorist activities and then feel free to prove it to me with some facts and I will hear you. Until then you are wasting my time.
  by: YourKiddingRight   10/03/2005 08:38 PM     
Kevin Mitnick a self professed guilty man that hacked and stole more than a few corporate secrets and code for this own gain. Cry for me please. HE CONFESSED and is currently under investigation again for the same crap he did the first time around. Yet another guilty man that got what he deserved. Show me one person, just one, that is innocent. So far I see criminals that did the crime and did the time. It’s hard to feel sorry for someone that broke the law, got caught then confesses. These are pathetic examples. Please do better or stop wasting my time.

If you don’t want your ass in jail then don’t break laws…its pretty simple.
  by: YourKiddingRight   10/03/2005 08:56 PM     
  open up..  
  by: YourKiddingRight   10/03/2005 08:56 PM     
  Padilla ...spoon feeding again...arrg  
  by: YourKiddingRight   10/03/2005 09:03 PM     
The insulting overtones of your asinine comments are enough to warrant non response to your lack of proof and propaganda style rhetoric.

Now say this to yourself a few times... Concurrent is not combined, concurrent is not combined, concurrent is not combined, concurrent is not combined, and concurrent is not combined.
  by: YourKiddingRight   10/03/2005 09:09 PM     
the_vor and yourkidding are the only ones that didn't seem to be spitting out the same rhetoric that is fed to the rest of the world on a spoon from the one news channel that most get. Its funny that everyone else in the world is so enlightened but live under dictators and horrible governements that imprison people for what they believe! America is far from perfect, but this country affords people what they make out of it. The world will continue to look on in skepticism until a situation like WWII comes along and then all of a sudden we are the good guys again. Not only have I read every book written by Kevin Mitnick, I also have met the guy. Don't spread lies about his situation. He is guilty and he confessed to it. Everyone thinks they can rally around his cause just because 2600 or some other L337 source told them what to think. This world is blind to their own hypocricy and somehow America is to blame for it.. if anything we have much more access to the truth (if we choose to look it up) than the majority of the world. By the way, for MOST of the world your governments filter what you are able to access on the internet. Hmm, sounds like bias to me, but what do I know.. I am just an American
  by: Liam09   10/03/2005 10:24 PM     
I must say that I am not familiar with the particular case of Joseph Padilla. However, I read the article that you recommended and, while it made some amazing claims (so of which could be true), there didn't seem to be any specific examples or evidence to support those claims within the article. Do you have a link that has specific details about what evidence was or was not brought into his trial or what the specific rights violations there were? I am interested in hearing about this case since if what the article you posted said is true I think we should definitely be aware of it. However the article mostly seemed to be emotionally charged accusations that didn't state any specific examples and didn't offer any links to outside sources that back them up. If you could help with this I would appreciate it...
  by: the_vor   10/03/2005 11:25 PM     
This has nothing to do with the innocence or guilt of the people being imprisoned. The point is that they were held for years without being charged for a crime and without access to lawyers and sometimes without being able to talk to their families. Whether they are guilty or not is for a jury of their peers to decide.
  by: treyjazz   10/03/2005 11:34 PM     
I don’t doubt that he was held for an extremely long time but the FBI knew they had him on all counts. He wasn’t going anywhere regardless if he had a trial the day they picked him up. Do I think the system was too slow? Yes I do but this case is the exception to the rule and not the rule of law that governs the U.S.

This exception was due mainly to mitigating circumstances and the amount of time it took to fully understand what this guy had done to the systems and financial outlooks of the companies he had hacked into. While I certainly do not believe in allowing someone to rot in a cell without extreme cause this case seems to prove out it was justified. I am sure we don’t have the complete story here from any and all the sources I was able to find.

I am confident that we surely will never know all the details in this case but apparently the court system believed it was not an abuse in this circumstance. I know Americans well enough to know that if it had been an exploitation of this mans rights an anyway there would have been more lawyers than you could count just itching to file suit on this mans behalf.

The U.S. justice system is not perfect but it does work and is not the chambers of tortures you have been lead to believe. Hell some of these inmates have everything from cable TV to hot tubs and fully loaded word out rooms.
  by: YourKiddingRight   10/04/2005 01:19 AM     
fully loaded WORK OUT rooms
  by: YourKiddingRight   10/04/2005 01:21 AM     
America isnt fascist, just derranged.
  by: know_your_rights   10/04/2005 03:17 AM     
"The U.S. ... certainly don’t combine sentences. Each crime carries its own sentence."

Pick one, they don't combine or does each crime carries its own sentence?
  by: kmazzawi     10/04/2005 07:28 AM     
  @YourKiddingRight #2  
"the FBI knew they had him on all counts."
The FBI in charge is a person, who has a job, who has ambition, who has faults, who sometimes (often) needs to take care of his own ass first. How dare you give him that much power over me?
  by: kmazzawi     10/04/2005 07:31 AM     
  @YourKiddingRight #3  
It is hard to defend this one YKR, 1% of the american population is in jail. It is becoming harder and harder to control that population and prevent abuse. Think about it. 1% of the population, that's half a state! Then you need 2%-5% of the population to arrest/ detain/ move/ prosecute/ guard/ feed them. That's like 1 to 3 more states.
  by: kmazzawi     10/04/2005 07:36 AM     
Are your post questions or statements? Please redefine exactly what your points are and I will be happy to address you.

  by: YourKiddingRight   10/04/2005 08:43 AM     
On the 1st post: I caught you throwing a contradictory statement. IMO there is a good chance you made the error on purpose to belittle Beryl.

On the 2nd post: You are right it is not a question, should have ended with an exclamation mark not a question mark.

On the 3rd post: That was just for your edification on the staggering numbers.
  by: kmazzawi     10/04/2005 08:58 AM     
"On the 1st post: I caught you throwing a contradictory statement. IMO there is a good chance youmade the error on purpose to belittle Beryl."

There is not a contradiction in the slightest and wasn’t intended to belittle anyone.

“Pick one, they don't combine or does each crime carries its own sentence?”

These two sentences do not conflict in the slightest. Each crime does carry its own sentence and are not combined. The sentence for the crimes may be carried out concurrently but are not rolled into one. Each is a separate issue with a separate and distinct payment for each crime. To clarify for you: If a murderer kills 12 people he would be tried for 12 separate counts, one for each murder. Now that is not saying 12 separate trials but rather one trial in which all counts are addressed. When the sentencing phase of the trail occurs the judge may give a total of the time the person is to serve but each crime carries its own punishment.

The judge, at his discretion, may address each murder in a separate sentencing phase but that is simply not practical or logical to do so unless the murders are vastly different. For example: One murder is considered man slaughter and one is considered 1st degree. Those types of murder carry vastly different punishments and usually vastly different sentencing guidelines so these may be addressed in a separate trial as to not taint one case with another in some circumstances.

One murder is not the same as twelve in regards to punishment and that was what was being suggested by Beryl.

The U.S. legal system has many forks in the road to justice in order to tackle each crime as unique so that the same type of crime can be addressed in vastly different ways by taking into account the circumstances of each.

  by: YourKiddingRight   10/04/2005 10:58 AM     
In your own words, “Show me one person, just one, that is innocent.” I though you said in this country you are innocent UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY IN A COURT OF LAW. You still haven’t answered any of my questions about Joseph Padilla. What are the CHARGES against him? What EVIDENCE was presented during his TRIAL? What was he CONVICTED of? How many years is he SENTENCED to? What are his VISITING hours? I ask for simple answers to simple questions. Questions that should be easy to answer for anyone convicted of a crime in a court of law. But you can’t answer any of them. WHY??? Because there never was a trial, that’s the fact jack, the only fact that counts. I don’t care what he did, we have a legal system for a reason. If he is guilty, prove it in a court of law and sentence him. I would have absolutely no problem with that. I don’t know Joseph Padilla and I don’t like terrorists. I don’t know all the facts behind this injustice. Unfortunately no one seems to know the facts and those facts are what need to be presented in A COURT OF LAW to convict this man. Until then he is INNOCENT. That’s the law, period. Until then, I consider Joseph Padilla’s imprisonment a criminal act by our government and high treason by the administration. This flies in the face of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. This isn’t about Joseph Padilla. When Joseph Padilla lost his right to fair trial we all lost our right to fair trial. That includes YOU, ME, every CITIZEN in the United States! Wake up and smell the fascists! The Nazification of Amerika is in full swing. Every American that died protecting the freedom of the citizens of this country died in vain.

do a search on Joseph Padilla on google and you will find more than you can digest. That way you can see everything that has been published on this atrocity and form your own opinions. Just remember, once legal precedent is set it applies to everyone. The slippery slope starts with just one step.

  by: Valkyrie123     10/04/2005 03:07 PM     
I spoon fed you the fracking link. Do you want me to read it for you too? You have been answered and the proof is there in printed facts from the U.S. Department of Justice. If you are going to rant like a fool do try and read the responses given to you.
  by: YourKiddingRight   10/04/2005 03:41 PM     
Still haven’t answered my questions, I wonder why? Prehaps, because, you can’t?
Nice link, apparently you haven’t read it or didn’t understand it. Check out page 46-59. It confirms what I have said, he is being Denied the right of Habeas Corpus, Denied a Court hearing, Denied a trial, Denied his rights as an American Citizen. All they had to do was call him an “enemy combatant” and poof all his rights as an American Citizen were gone. Who’s next? Me, you, who? On page 60 they make accusations but offer no proof.

I have never denied he might be a terrorist, all I ask is give him the same consideration every citizen in the county is entitled to. Give him a trial, where in the Constitution is that too much to ask? If he is guilty, lock him up and throw away the key, but first the TRIAL in a COURT of LAW.

Locking an American Citizen up and denying him a trial completes the jump from a Constitutional Republic to a Dictatorship. Is that what you want? Do you want King George to be our Dictator? Nice little Busheep. Baaaaa BAAAAA!

You don’t seem to get what this is about. You are still stuck on whether Padilla is a terrorist or not. Who cares. This is about Constitutional Rights. The right to a trial by a jury of your peers. The right to cross examine your accusers. The right to see and refute evidence presented against you. The list is endless. He and we will now be denied all of these rights by the mere say so of just one man, King George. No thank you. I choose not to live under tyranny ruled by a fascist dictator. Wake up and smell the Nazis. The trial I would like to see now is the one concerning our Administration being charged with High Treason. Long live the Republic. May freedom ring.
  by: Valkyrie123     10/04/2005 05:53 PM     
Well it took you long enough to read the information.

With “enemy combatant” finally you might see the light. He lost his rights when he became a terrorist. End of discussion. He had his hearing and was found to be a terrorist under the Patriot act. If you do not wish to be jailed as an “enemy combatant” don’t commit acts of terrorism or plan them. It is all pretty simple but I guess for a simple mind it is still quite complicated.

Do try and rant less and insult more since your foolish rhetoric is quiet hypnotic. Now excuse me while I have better things to do than debate with halfwits that scream propaganda and can't see the forest for the trees.

  by: YourKiddingRight   10/04/2005 09:12 PM     
You are starting to see the light but you’re not quite there yet. Three tries and you still have not answered any of my questions. If I were a judge I’d find you in contempt now but since the court system is now defunct I guess it makes no difference.

Who is to decide the government can label you an “Enemy Combatant”? King George? When did the Constitution or the Bill or Rights get suspended? Why do we even have a Constitution and a Bill of Rights if they are not to be followed? What are the “certain inalienable rights” guaranteed under the Constitution? Why did our forefathers fight and die for freedom from “King George”? Are you English and just want the ‘New World’ across the pond back? Open your brain and actually take in some of what is out there. Contrary to popular belief, the government is not your friend. The “Patriot Act” is actually the “Nazi Act”. There is NOTHING patriotic about it.
  by: Valkyrie123     10/04/2005 10:19 PM     
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