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12/10/2005 05:18 AM ID: 51682 Permalink   

Kansas Student Suspended for Speaking Spanish

 

16-year-old Zach Rubio, a bilingual student at Endeavor Alternative School in Kansas City, was suspended for speaking Spanish to another student in the hall during a restroom break.

The trouble occurred when a student asked Zach, in Spanish, if he could borrow a dollar. Zach naturally replied with "no problema". A teacher overheard the conversation and sent Zach to principal Jennifer Watts' office. He was suspended for 2 days.

Zach's father confronted the principal, asking to see the written policy prohibiting Spanish. He later called the superintendant of the school district which rescinded the suspension. Legal action will be taken against the violation of Zach's rights.

 
  Source: www.washingtonpost.com  
    WebReporter: manilaryce Show Calling Card      
  Recommendation:  
ASSESS this news: BLOCK this news. Reason:
   
  56 Comments
  
  ...ohhh man  
 
There always has to be some people in the world that act so stupid it really defeats the theory of evolution. People suing for hot coffee, people suing for warning labels saying driver shouldn't leave the wheel and assume it's cruise control...just beyond me.
 
  by: Mr-Anderson   12/10/2005 06:04 AM     
  Lawsuits all around.  
 
And I think that would be totally justified. This is complete nonsense, and the people involved need to be smacked down hard. Firing their -sses would be a good start. I don't think I even need to make a wise-ss, disparaging remark about Kansas...the actions of these idiots speak louder than my words.
 
  by: momentofclarity     12/10/2005 06:16 AM     
  More to it  
 
I gather this is more of a tinderbox situation, between hispanics and non-hispanics, particularly illegal immigrants.

If you read the article in full, you get a better idea of what is going on.

In addition:

Said Rubio: "I'm mainly doing this for other Mexican families, where the legal status is kind of shaky and they are afraid to speak up."

I know that I do find it upsetting when I pass by a series of shops that haven't got a word of english on their signs. I tend to feel like a stranger in my own country.
 
  by: lauriesman     12/10/2005 07:24 AM     
  ridiculous  
 
Whatever this is really about, it doesn't change the
fact that the school acted in a disgusting fashion. I
guess these 'educators' are now actively promoting
ignorance.

Know a foreign language? I better not catch you
trying to use your skill!

When I first immigrated, the principal at my school
told my parents to make sure I keep using my
native tongue and that they, the teachers, would
get my english up to par. It's unfortunate that the
individuals in this little story represented educators
so poorly.
 
  by: Bane39   12/10/2005 07:47 AM     
  @bane  
 
I don't really blame the school - they did over react, but it IS a situation that needs to be addressed. As it stands, noone is doing anything and both sides are getting progressively more hostile. Thats what I mean by a tinderbox situation - it just needs a spark. Hopefully it wont become a powderkeg situation and end in violence and rioting and tragedy.
 
  by: lauriesman     12/10/2005 08:05 AM     
  @lauriesman  
 
"I know that I do find it upsetting when I pass by a series of shops that haven't got a word of english on their signs. I tend to feel like a stranger in my own country"

i disagree. first off, this isn't YOUR country. the father in this article is a legal citizen which means it's just as much his country as it is yours. and to say that non-english signs annoy you is a personal problem, not a social one. i'd imagine a native american could walk past signs in english in HIS country and find it upsetting. like it or not, there is no official language in america. this is more about racism and the superiority these "educators" think they have above latinos than anything else.

"I don't really blame the school - they did over react, but it IS a situation that needs to be addressed. As it stands, noone is doing anything and both sides are getting progressively more hostile."

you don't blame the school? who's to blame then? the reason this issue gets larger and larger is because of people in power pulling bullsh!t like this. cultural diversity is not a problem unless you think america should remain a white nation for white people. what's so scary about latinos increasing in america?

these administrators imposed their own narrow outlook upon others. the boy's rights were violated. if he were white and said "no problema" to his friend there would be no action taken against him. these administrators are scared of minorities, and punishing innocent students that represent their fear. it's that simple.
 
  by: manilaryce     12/10/2005 10:32 AM     
  ~  
 
I took this one CS class where a student from China asked our professor from China a question in Chinese and the professor was like SPEAK ENGLISH JERK. It was great.

So in summary when people speak in a language you don't speak concerning information that may relate to you in some way it is annoying and causes me to suplex people through plate glass windows. Otherwise it is fine. Maybe teachers should learn Spanish so they can tell when kids are trying to use it to badmouth people without getting caught. Or something. :P
 
  by: Fratley   12/10/2005 10:54 AM     
  no est justo  
 
Ya es hora que America cambie. Yo amo este pais y hablo tanto ingles como español. Y tengo el derecho de hablar el idioma que quiera!
 
  by: migmontest   12/10/2005 10:55 AM     
  one more thing  
 
i think i should also post a disclaimer since there are many people here who will claim i'm "pulling the race card". i'm commenting on race because it is relevant to the article. anyone who'd like to claim i'm bringing race into an article which has nothing to do with it should argue with evidence rather than simply claiming i'm a racist myself for drawing attention to it.
 
  by: manilaryce     12/10/2005 10:56 AM     
  People are juse xenophobic  
 
But xonophobia usually comes with the lack of education (about other cultures). I think it is a great addition to any country to have immigrants, as it adds to cultural diversity, which is a great thing to enrich a society.

Lauriesman ; Dont come to Monteal then, you'll be scared to hell ;D
Most of the "immigrant" shops dont have french on their signs, excepts product listing in their window when they do. They still serve in french. The fact that they use their language is somewhat iconographic and representative of what you'll get inside that shop.

Beside, everything is Ok, we do have law that could be enforce about the signs on shops, that's why when you put an english sign you are forced to put a french sign of equal size. And places like FuturShop who have a english name had actually a problem with this law as it was requested to then that they use a french name HAHA (f*ck them :D ). But sadly got away with keep their name. Other businesses show more respect to that anyway, and actually the americans DO show more respect on that topic, but probably because theres more money to be made that way, which is perfectly fine. For those who do not know ; FuturShop is a canadian business who's hellbent on pissing everyone off. But they are so easy to screw up =)
 
  by: Calamité   12/10/2005 02:12 PM     
  @Bane39  
 
I have to agree with Bane39 to some extent. If someone is bilingual we are supposed to shun them, or punish them for possessing this skill? What happens if they taught French in the same school and during a break two students were practicing it, is that illegal too? How about using English words that were derived from other languages?

How about if two students learn science and start to... Oh wait this is Kansas, that's never going to happen.

What concerns me the most about this situation is this is yet another case of so called educators making really stupid decisions. The fact they would allow this to happen without realizing that there would be serious ramifications, a back lash, and national media attention, shows a level of stupidity that one would think should preclude someone from being an educator in the first place.
 
  by: ZCT     12/10/2005 03:29 PM     
  I was born  
 
and raised in Australia, all my life I have learned, relied on and used the English language. As this is an english speaking country, it works quite well. However, there is a disorienting and distrubing effect when you cannot read the names and products of the shops in your own suburb. This is what I mean by feeling like a stranger in my own country. I don't understand the culture or the language, it's like I'm not even in Australia.
 
  by: lauriesman     12/10/2005 03:32 PM     
  @lauriesman  
 
I know what you are saying. In England there are parts of some cities where almost everything is written in different Indian or Middle Eastern languages including public school signs.

Sorry but the official language of England is English. If you want to go live there learn the damn language and don't expect tax payers to produce everything in primitive languages for you.

The British immigration policy is astonishing, they let far too many people in, give them a free house, free money, free education, free healthcare, and then change their entire culture to suit them.

I'm a firm believer that if you move to a foreign country you should learn to fit in, not try and change the country to make it more like home.

Of course America is a little different because the entire country is founded on immigration and is therefore more of a melting pot than places like Australia or Britain. This seems to give Spanish speaking people more of an entitlement issue for some reason. What they don’t seem to realize is that being stubborn and not learning English they are disadvantaging themselves in a considerable number of social and economic ways.
 
  by: ZCT     12/10/2005 03:50 PM     
  The official language of  
 
The USA, is English AND Spanish. Yes both, what's the problem here?
 
  by: TheBackwardsman   12/10/2005 04:27 PM     
  sorry  
 
That was meant to be for certain states.
 
  by: TheBackwardsman   12/10/2005 04:30 PM     
  @TheBackwardsman  
 
I was under the impression that most states had not made that law. Do you know which states have made an official language?
 
  by: ZCT     12/10/2005 04:59 PM     
  Back in primary school...  
 
I attended a french as second language program... all of our instruction was in french. If you were heard speaking english, you'd get in trouble. Maybe not suspended, but kept in at recess, detention, etc. Although I suffered now and then for speaking my first language, the first language of my classmates, and the official language of my province, I can't really say it was a bad thing. It was a good way to learn the language. I imagine they're trying the same thing at this school, except with english. Probably took it a little too far though.
 
  by: acg   12/10/2005 05:05 PM     
  to me...  
 
it goes both ways...if they have to learn english, we
should at least try to learn spanish...

I'm telling you, when this happens, we're going to
have a new form of language. There's already
different forms of english..."hood", "southern" "new
york" "midwestern"...why not create a spanglish? or
a engish
 
  by: hotrock11     12/10/2005 05:42 PM     
  @hotrock  
 
'I'm telling you, when this happens, we're going to
have a new form of language. There's already
different forms of english..."hood", "southern" "new
york" "midwestern"...why not create a spanglish?'

Reading that made me laugh... I live in Gibraltar, a British colony on the southern tip of Spain, and here most people speak a dialect of english and spanish...they call it 'llanito' but 'spanglish' describes it well...
 
  by: LAP_40K   12/10/2005 05:56 PM     
  Learn an other language  
 
It wont hurt you and will only make you better.

So now, I have french, spanish and english, next is russian! For mother Russia! Then German and cantoneese and finaly, arabic! Lots of fun ahead for little me =)
 
  by: Calamité   12/10/2005 08:32 PM     
  English  
 
Is quite clearly the superior language. All others should be outlawed. Ban all language that gives a gender to inanimate objects!
 
  by: ZCT     12/10/2005 10:11 PM     
  I don't think...  
 
the US has an offical language. I do think the school over reacted.

What do they do if a student says "No."

Do they get suspended?

What about German or French??? Do they expel the student???

@lauriesman - If you are suggesting that we all learn a common language, how 'bout Chinese? It's the #1 speaking language in the world.

"I was born and raised in Australia, all my life I have learned, relied on and used the English language. As this is an english speaking country, it works quite well."

DUH! Do you think speaking Portugeuse would work well in Russia??? Do Laurie have to explain that one to you???
 
  by: slave_boy_imp   12/10/2005 10:19 PM     
  This is bad  
 
For me being latino I feel angry!
How could they suspend a person for speaking his native tone. I am a 14 year old student in Washington state and this is so vulgar. At my Jr. High school sure there would be trouble because teachers wouldn't understand what the heck you are saying if your speaking in a language that they where never taught! In my school I've been told to please talk in English because the teacher did not understand but to suspend a person for this I hate it
 
  by: Loco_Fellow   12/10/2005 11:06 PM     
  @Loco_Fellow  
 
Get used to it. The reality is unless you speak good English you will be significantly marginalized in the US. If you want to good income, a good job, in other words if you want to make it in the US you'd better be good at English.

Understand I am not condoning this, nor stating that I support it. But I am telling you what reality is.
 
  by: ZCT     12/10/2005 11:17 PM     
  @Lauriesman, and the rest of you idiots  
 
We call America the land of the free for a reason - so people can dcome here, and do what they like, without f*cktards like you shooting them or beathing them up. If you can't stand anything but english, and you don't want to see any part of any other culture then yours, then live in an underground bunker... or move to a country that supports nazi-ist thinking, and xenophobia. you people who think like Lauriesman does are ruining this country. if our forefathers had thought the way you do, we wouldnt be here, because the country would have never worked. So stop acting like imbeciles and start accepting the fact that there are other types of people in the world besides you.

And for the record, I'm white, and all i speak is english.
 
  by: fredfredrickson   12/11/2005 03:14 AM     
  true  
 
i agree with fredfredrickson. everyone likes the idea of diversity and freedom, but only in theory. these same people don't give a f@ck about anyone but themselves. to these jackasses it's worth deporting non-whites just so they don't feel stupid when they can't read a sign that isn't in english. diversity is only a threat to those who are too scared to accept reality. grow up. you people are not superior to anyone.
 
  by: manilaryce     12/11/2005 04:42 AM     
  @fredfredrickson  
 
“We call America the land of the free for a reason - so people can dcome here, and do what they like, without f*cktards like you shooting them or beathing them up.”

- Land of the free is merely a slogan to encourage patriotic thinking. America is in no material way freer than any other civilized country. Social and political freedoms compare with Canada, Australasia, parts of Asia, and Europe. That’s a crapload of countries that are very much free. It might also shock you to know that unless you want to crawl across the border or come to America on an inner tube America is not that easy to emigrate to, and it certainly isn’t called ‘land of the free’ as an open invitation to travelers from all over the world, if it were there would be no border with Mexico or Canada. You’re just being naive.

“If you can't stand anything but english, and you don't want to see any part of any other culture then yours, then live in an underground bunker... or move to a country that supports nazi-ist thinking, and xenophobia. you people who think like Lauriesman does are ruining this country.”

- Well far be it from me to defend the man, but seriously. For one he is Australian, and lives there. Their national language is English and English only. There is nothing ‘nazi-ist’ about being that way, just because it is not the same as America does not make it part of the Nazi agenda. And really your assertion that Australian Born Again Christians who speak English are ruining America is just patently absurd.

A moment ago you were extolling the virtues of a free country and now you are demanding that those who don’t think like you need to move out of the country or live in an underground bunker. Do you not have any form of irony detector in your head at all?
“if our forefathers had thought the way you do, we wouldnt be here, because the country would have never worked.”

- Oh blah blah blah. Are you really so brainwashed? The forefathers liked slavery and suppression of women, let’s put the rose tinted glasses away and not invoke their names to badly make a point.

“So stop acting like imbeciles and start accepting the fact that there are other types of people in the world besides you.”

- I am in a bit of a quandary. I’m not sure if you are stupid or have no concept of what you are talking about. On the one hand you are lecturing people for not accepting others, and then in the next breath you are attacking others who have a different outlook on the world. It’s quite bizarre to read actually.

”And for the record, I'm white, and all i speak is english.”

- Wow, and you probably have some black friends too. For someone whose only language is English, you might want to work on it some more. You write and spell like someone for whom it is a second language (7 errors in one short post).
 
  by: ZCT     12/11/2005 05:12 AM     
  if this is a case of...  
 
"we should speak the language of the country you're in" than i say we start a movement to ban english from all the former english colonies around the world!

after all, it was the english immigrants that imposed their culture and language in foreign lands, right?
 
  by: sheniferous   12/11/2005 05:14 AM     
  @manilaryce  
 
Some interesting assertions. But you are wrong. Not everyone welcomes diversity; try visiting the south with some black, atheist or gay friends and see how well Americans like diversity.

I think the issue that many Americans have is that some people come illegally into the United States, refuse to make an effort to fit in or learn English, yet we are expected to bend over backwards to accommodate these criminals and change our culture to accommodate them.

Sorry but I don't see it that way. I am all for people moving to America legally, but it is their duty to fit in not expect America to change to suit them. I am an immigrant myself and I think it is outrageous for immigrants and illegal immigrants to expect America to change just for their benefit.

Diversity is about accepting other people from other cultures. That’s great. But it is a two way street. There is an onus on immigrants to learn to fit in, and that includes learning English.
 
  by: ZCT     12/11/2005 05:21 AM     
  @sheniferous  
 
Maybe after they learned English they realized it was much better than their native language. How else would you explain it still being used?

Kidding aside, you are actually suggesting that the way to reverse some of the damage of colonialism is to enforce a ban on speaking a language they have come to use and enjoy using? Your post really doesn’t make sense if you read it.
 
  by: ZCT     12/11/2005 05:25 AM     
  @ZCT  
 
of course it doesn't make sense.

i don't understand english!

:)
 
  by: sheniferous   12/11/2005 05:26 AM     
  @Lauriesman, etc  
 
There may be a problem with illegal immigration in America, but the school IS still to blame here. We also have a problem with black crime here, but I'd still blame a school for telling a black kid he cannot be around money because he might steal something. Stupid things like this ARE the reason that the problem gets worse. The kid was legal, his father was legal, and most of the time, he spoke english. Yes, I did read the whole article, and it does say he had previous reprimands...for speaking a foreign language! Just let that sink in. This is the kind of xenophobic nonsense that only serves to escalate the situation. Had the school seen his registration materials, saw he was illegal, and reported him, THEN I would not blame them. That is a valid solution to the problem. This, on the other hand, is just middle-American fear and prejudice at it's finest, and it needs to stop. Fixing a problem is about fixing BOTH sides, not just focusing on one and ignoring the faults of the other; so the problem of mounting hostility between Whites and Latinos is not just solved by stopping illegal immigration, but also reactionary racist crap like this.
 
  by: momentofclarity     12/11/2005 05:51 AM     
  @moc  
 
My point exactly - noone is fixing anything. Both sides are drawing back and becomming more and more antagonistic to each other to the point that ridiculous things like this are happening.

There has to be a root cause, a event history that leads up to these kinds of policies and actions - even in Kansas it would be unlikely for a school to spontaneously decide that they are going to ban speaking in spanish.

The problem here is neither side is addressing that core issue. It is only going to get worse.
 
  by: lauriesman     12/11/2005 06:09 AM     
  @ZCT  
 
You know, pointing out the spelling and grammatical errors in my post only further proves your ignorance of the subject at hand. I write quick posts on here sometimes, and don't check those things. Unlike most forums, you cannot go back and edit, so what you are left with is my raw post.

I am not really sure what to make of your post. For starters, I obviously am not commanding anyone to go live in a bunker if they don't like other culture - I was being sarcastic, to prove a point. The point being, that this country was founded on the principle that people are different. Of course many of the country's forefathers were slavedrivers, and did not grant women the same rights as men. But they did found the country on the principle of freedom of thought, religion, etc, an idea that was the groundwork for women's rights, the end of slavery, etc. We obviously can't hold all people since the beginning of time to the moral and legal standards that we do now... Take your lame arguements somewhere else.

To the contrary of what you said, I am not patriotic, and I don't have flags everywhere, I'm not a Christian, and I hate war. I don't just go around spewing out the slogans of the country all the time - I use them when theya re necessary. Despite our bumbling idiot of a president, and our recent terrible war policy, this country is still one of the best out there to live in, because we have so many freedoms here. Liberal as I am, I can't deny that.

If you don't think Born Again Christians are ruining the country, then you must be living under a rock... Look at the asshole we have as president. In a matter of 6 years he has ruined our name in the world. He has taken war from the last resort to the first. The economy is terrible. I cannot name one good thing the man has done. Not one. Yeah, Born Again Christians are doing a helluva lot for the US. Hahaha!

The pointof all this is that this country is still free, and peope are free to speak what language they want. People like lauriesman will try to reason with the school. they will try to tell you, "well, it's wrong, but the school has a point..." when there is NO excuse for this crap. That is the kind of thinking that is ruining this country, and I hope they throw the book at the people in charge of this school.
 
  by: fredfredrickson   12/11/2005 07:52 AM     
  @ZCT  
 
Couldn't find details on specific states, but what I know for sure that in New Mexico it is officially both.

On a fedral level there is NO official language - Which completely blows the argument of "This is the USA and we speak English here".
 
  by: TheBackwardsman   12/11/2005 11:42 AM     
  @TheBackwardsman  
 
“Couldn't find details on specific states, but what I know for sure that in New Mexico it is officially both.”

- Well you implied in your post that the USA was like that all over. It’s really not.

”On a fedral level there is NO official language - Which completely blows the argument of "This is the USA and we speak English here".”

- Well I refer you to the comments I made to Loco_Fellow in which I said:

The reality is unless you speak good English you will be significantly marginalized in the US. If you want to good income, a good job, in other words if you want to make it in the US you'd better be good at English.

Understand I am not condoning this, nor stating that I support it. But I am telling you what reality is.
 
  by: ZCT     12/11/2005 01:46 PM     
  @fredfredrickson  
 
“You know, pointing out the spelling and grammatical errors in my post only further proves your ignorance of the subject at hand...”

- Hardly, it was just a little dig because of the way you wrote about how you only speak one language. When someone writes ‘all i speak is english’ I find it a little amusing. Pedantic, sure, but amusing nonetheless.

“I obviously am not commanding anyone to go live in a bunker if they don't like other culture - I was being sarcastic, to prove a point.”

- Well I didn’t really get the point. It certainly didn’t come across as sarcastic. You basically said that people who didn’t think like you needed to go and live in another country or live in some bunker. I’ve heard that argument before and it runs contrary to the entire thrust of your argument which was essentially the acceptance of others. If you are to accept others then you must accept even the bigots, otherwise you are only accepting the people you want to accept, which is really no different from them.

“The point being, that this country was founded on the principle that people are different.”

- But wasn’t the idea that these people lived in peaceful harmony as Americans, as opposed to separating themselves into racial factions within the country?

“Of course many of the country's forefathers were slavedrivers, and did not grant women the same rights as men. But they did found the country on the principle of freedom of thought, religion, etc, an idea that was the groundwork for women's rights, the end of slavery, etc. We obviously can't hold all people since the beginning of time to the moral and legal standards that we do now... Take your lame arguements somewhere else.”

- I’m not sure it is such a lame argument. You are holding these people in such high esteem, but they thought it was okay to own a person as personal property. They thought that a prerequisite for intelligent thought was owning a penis. All I am saying is that maybe these people were not all knowing demi-gods. I just think that bringing up the principles of these men has little bearing on today. They could not have envisioned the world as it is today, and that’s what we are talking about.

”To the contrary of what you said, I am not patriotic, and I don't have flags everywhere, I'm not a Christian, and I hate war. I don't just go around spewing out the slogans of the country all the time - I use them when theya re necessary. Despite our bumbling idiot of a president, and our recent terrible war policy, this country is still one of the best out there to live in, because we have so many freedoms here. Liberal as I am, I can't deny that.”

- I think you can make good arguments without the need to trot out patriotic slogans. Yes America is a great country to live in, I chose to make it my home. It just irritates me a little bit when Americans who have never even left the country start banging on about how it is the freest and best country in the world when they have never even seen anything else.

”If you don't think Born Again Christians are ruining the country, then you must be living under a rock...”

- Oh I never said that. Reread what I wrote. I wholeheartedly agree with you on this one. Extremist fundamentalist right wing Christians are ruining this country. Thanks to Bush they have felt empowered in the last few years and believe they need to impose their will on everyone else.

“Look at the asshole we have as president. In a matter of 6 years he has ruined our name in the world. He has taken war from the last resort to the first. The economy is terrible. I cannot name one good thing the man has done. Not one.”

- I know, I’ve repeatedly asked the pro-Bush people on here to name some things, and no one ever has. It is such a sad sight to see this prick ruining this great country.

”The pointof all this is that this country is still free, and peope are free to speak what language they want.”

- Of course they are. I was quite shocked to see this news story in fact. For all the rhetoric about freedom a boy was still suspended from school for not speaking English. It rather flies in the face of your arguments that this is a free country. I can’t imagine, for example, anyone ever being punished at a school in Europe for not speaking the main language of the country.

“People like lauriesman will try to reason with the school. they will try to tell you, "well, it's wrong, but the school has a point..." when there is NO excuse for this crap. That is the kind of thinking that is ruining this country, and I hope they throw the book at the people in charge of this school.”
- Yes I know he has a tendency to do that. I agree with you that the school should be sanctioned for what they have done. The only excuse I can see for what happened would be if the child had become belligerent and insulted the teacher in a foreign language. But that didn’t happen. What happened certainly seems on the face of
 
  by: ZCT     12/11/2005 02:16 PM     
  cont  
 
to be wrong.
 
  by: ZCT     12/11/2005 02:17 PM     
  damn short news <G>  
 
last sentence:

What happened certainly seems on the face of it to be wrong.
 
  by: ZCT     12/11/2005 02:18 PM     
  ok  
 
i hope they get sued for millions!

number 1)

it was the spanish who DISCOVERED AMERICA> christopher columbus was a spaniard, if you didn't know. if theres an official language, which there shouldnt be, it should be spanish, or it should be both spanish and english.

2) latinos and hispanics are currently the countries largest minority group. in the city of new york, puerto ricans are the largest group overall.

3)latinos and hispanics are on a fast pace to becoming the largest group overall in the country. that means we will be the majority.

4)on official language census', spanish is 3rd most spoken language in the world, while english is 4th. first is mandarin chinese and 2nd is hindi.



 
  by: statenislandNYC   12/11/2005 09:50 PM     
  @statenislandNYC  
 
agreed. this is all about racism. middle-america is afraid of the inevitable. within a couple generations white people will be the minority and it scares them. i say it's about time for a change.
 
  by: manilaryce     12/11/2005 11:39 PM     
  Communication skills  
 
I was at a brasilian picnic on the weekend (falar muito meu!) and one of the guys there said something that I found quite interesting. "Good communication skills is like good hygene." People notice even on an subconcious level and it affects the way they interact with you.

WRT to this topic. Well it is an utter absurdity. Why should the school dictate how two kids communicate personally outside of class?
 
  by: jendres     12/12/2005 12:17 AM     
  @ZCT  
 
While I think I agree with you in principle, I disagree with some of the points and arguments you've made.

- "The reality is unless you speak good English you will be significantly marginalized in the US. If you want to good income, a good job, in other words if you want to make it in the US you'd better be good at English."

Your attitude towards this situation will only perpetuate the "reality" of which you speak. You say yourself that you don't condone it, yet at the same time you seem content to let it continue.

- "If you are to accept others then you must accept even the bigots, otherwise you are only accepting the people you want to accept, which is really no different from them."

Gotta disagree flat-out with this one. To me, tolerance in the sense that fredfredrickson speaks of is not absolute. I will not tolerate the Nazis that killed millions of jews, the perpetrators of the genocides in Africa, nor anyone else who violates a person's or group of people's basic human rights. A line must be drawn somewhere as to how much you'll tolerate. Otherwise you risk be complicit rather than tolerant.
 
  by: acg   12/12/2005 12:18 AM     
  @acg  
 
"I will not tolerate the Nazis that killed millions of jews, the perpetrators of the genocides in Africa, nor anyone else who violates a person's or group of people's basic human rights."

just a warning. be careful what you say here. I've been called prejudice on shortnews before because i was intolerant of neo-nazis.
 
  by: manilaryce     12/12/2005 12:45 AM     
  @acg  
 
“While I think I agree with you in principle, I disagree with some of the points and arguments you've made.”

- Hmm let me check the rules, I’m sure there is a SN rule about disagreeing with me… ;)

”Your attitude towards this situation will only perpetuate the "reality" of which you speak. You say yourself that you don't condone it, yet at the same time you seem content to let it continue.”

- Well I am not going to go out an learn Spanish just so I appear more welcoming to illegal aliens. I don’t think it is realistic to think that America is going to become bilingual ever (at least in our lifetimes). Heck America has one of the highest adult illiteracy rates in the civilized world, especially in the South. You think we can go from that to fluent bilingual even in the next couple of decades? I doubt it. So while you may not like my point, I stand by it. If you speak poor English, you will be marginalized in America.

”Gotta disagree flat-out with this one. To me, tolerance in the sense that fredfredrickson speaks of is not absolute. I will not tolerate the Nazis that killed millions of jews, the perpetrators of the genocides in Africa, nor anyone else who violates a person's or group of people's basic human rights.”

- Well I am not the one saying we have to be nice to Nazis (man they pop up in a lot of arguments!). But to have freedom of speech you have to allow even the most repugnant of people to speak out. Let’s say you ban Nazis from speaking, how about Commies? What about the KKK? How about the Black Panthers? How about PETA? How about Muslims who believe we are infidels? It’s a really tough call, but if you want free speech there is always the chance that you will hear something you find disgusting. The moment you invoke censorship on groups of people you don’t like you then have to start to figure out who or what is acceptable and what cannot be said. Who makes that kind of decision?

“A line must be drawn somewhere as to how much you'll tolerate. Otherwise you risk be complicit rather than tolerant.”

- Well who makes that line, and how is it drawn? That’s the tough question.
 
  by: ZCT     12/12/2005 01:19 AM     
  @StatenIslandNYC  
 
"it was the spanish who DISCOVERED AMERICA> christopher columbus was a spaniard, if you didn't know. if theres an official language, which there shouldnt be, it should be spanish, or it should be both spanish and english."


Did the Vikings not first truly discover the Americas? Perhaps we should all be speaking their old languages? =P
 
  by: Leethe337th   12/13/2005 01:05 PM     
  to be annoyingly technical...  
 
actually it was the native americans that first discovered america. i don't think of the later western peoples as really "discovering" anything. though for argument sake, i believe the egyptians and chinese had visited the americas even before the vikings (i might be wrong on the date for the chinese).
 
  by: manilaryce     12/13/2005 01:34 PM     
  It's impossible  
 
To discover something that isn't vacant. The native americans were already here. To say that someone else "discovered" America is as dumb as someone discovering their neighbor's house while thier neighbor is inside.
 
  by: kcking05     12/13/2005 10:00 PM     
  To get back on topic...  
 
The school not only apologized, but they lifted the suspension, and admitted that there is no rule against speaking spanish in the school district. They are being sued because the student was allegedly told by one of the administrators that "This isn't Mexico or Germany, and you should speak english here." That right there ladies and gentlemen, IS racism, and the school should be sued.
 
  by: kcking05     12/13/2005 10:03 PM     
  @manilaryce  
 
"I've been called prejudice on shortnews before because i was intolerant of neo-nazis."

Hardly. You were called out for supporting the stripping Freedom of Speech and Assembly Rights from Neo-Nazis. You were further called to task for stating that you approved of the riot that developed in responce to a legal, peacful assemblage of Nazis who were themselves marching to protest the lack of police intervention in some race-based gang activity.

You (and I, for that matter) might not like what some intolerant KKK hick has to say, but in America they have every Right to say it.
 
  by: Dedolito     12/13/2005 10:22 PM     
  And they can speak spanish  
 
in thier school if they want!

lol
 
  by: kcking05     12/13/2005 10:31 PM     
  @Dedolito  
 
no, actually you did refer to my intolerance as prejudice.

"You know for a fact that every last Nazi at the Ohio demonstration wants to erradicate non-white life? Do you have a copy of this group's Charter? Until then you are still making generalizations based on a prejudical knowledge of Nazis in general."

you're also claiming i was in favor of that riot, which is not true. i did sympathize with the community, but never condoned their actions. i was also criticizing the hypocracy of our country for shutting down pro-black groups and tolerating neo-nazi groups.

since that thread ended long ago, and we are now clear of each others position, lets try and focus on this story.
 
  by: manilaryce     12/14/2005 01:14 AM     
  you are the one  
 
that tried to make yourself the poor victim of harassment because of your misaligned views of Freedom of Speech and Assembly. That is, you don't seem to want to grant the Rights of Speech and Assembly to anyone except those that you agree with. Since the Nazis hold world views that oppose yours, you seem to be quite happy to have their Rights stripped without probably cause.

ANd if you are going to quote me and then ask that the subject be dropped, why don't you try quoting in context next time? That this particular quote of mine was a challenge to your declaration that the Nazis at the Ohio demonstration should be stripped of their Rights based ONLY on your prejudical belief that they were collectivly guilty of crimes.

What's that? Oh right. You weren't to show that a single demonstrator at the ralley had any sort of criminal record, or engaged in any illegal activity at the time of the rally, that would legitamitize the stripping of Rights.

What would you call it if I were to call for the stripping of Assembly and Speech Rights of African Americans males flying colors that I can see gathered on 5th & Main based on the fact that the majority of inner-city crime is carried out by gangs? That's right, I'd be a racists asshat. Why do you think that the sword does not cut both ways? If otherwise law-addinging Nazi's are exersizing their Rights of Speech and Assembly, what do you call it besides prejudice that you suggest that they be denied those Rights.

"you're also claiming i was in favor of that riot, which is not true. "

Oh? Then what was

"this story would've been much better if all the nazis were killed."

all about? Or your apparent glee that the Nazis had to retreat under the protection of police?

 
  by: Dedolito     12/14/2005 01:52 AM     
  Columbus  
 
just a quick comment from a newbie who has enjoyed reading the posts here over the last few days.

statenislandNYC wrote = it was the spanish who DISCOVERED AMERICA> christopher columbus was a spaniard, if you didn't know. if theres an official language, which there shouldnt be, it should be spanish,

Far be it from me to teach an American history, but was not old Christopher born in Genoa Italy in 1451? Therefore avoiding the claims of the Native Americans the Norse and possibly the Celts the language of choice should be Italian!

On the actual subject yes it sounds disgraceful to suspend someone for speaking in a foreign tongue. But I also think that people immigrating to a country should have to learn the language of their adopted country. That this should be a condition of entry. I am speaking personally of England here.
 
  by: BAZinUK   03/03/2006 03:42 AM     
  I agree  
 
The school should be sued and some people removed from positions.
As for shops with only writting in another language, I think it's great.
Atleast you might get to get some good food.
What the point of having a China town if all is in english?
The illegal issue is a seperate issue and should not be used as an excuse to be a racist and to impose your beliefs on another.


 
  by: Thinking   03/03/2006 04:30 AM     
  I guess we're the only one with Magnet Schools  
 
I'm from KC and let tell ya something... Magnet schools are divided up by language... There are Latin, French, English, Greek, etc. language schools and depending on what ever school you go to, you're supposed to speak the language of the particular campus. Not just in class but all the time... Just a little FYI. I do feel that they did over react though...
 
  by: FreakKeeper     06/22/2006 08:28 AM     
 
 
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