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03/17/2006 06:50 PM ID: 53395 Permalink   

US Debt Ceiling: 2000 Years of All the Tea in the World


The US debt ceiling was raised today by $781 billion to nearly $9 trillion. Besides the tea, this is enough to buy Buckingham Palace 9,000 times or 28 Eiffel Towers made of gold. This is the fourth such increase passed during the Bush adminstration.

In 2001, when Bush was handed a $263 billion budget surplus, the national debt was $5.7 trillion. Today it is $8.7 trillion, for combination of reasons: rampant government spending, surprisingly low tax revenues and tax cuts, and the 9/11 attacks.

Almost half of US publicly owned debt is to foreigners. Japan and China are the biggest creditors, owed $668 and $263 billion, respectively. A former Clinton budget director notes such debt, "makes you much more vulnerable to people’s agendas."

    WebReporter: MomentOfClarity Show Calling Card      
ASSESS this news: BLOCK this news. Reason:
cutting taxes is easy when you just spend more than you have over and over. some of this is understandable because it is sound to cut taxes during a recession but $3 trillion is absurd.
  by: reverend j roach     03/17/2006 07:04 PM     
  This is the straw that broke the camel's back.  
I seriously doubt that a newly elected president can ease the financial suffering that Bush has put the USA through these past few years. It will take a dozen years to recover!

It's enough to shatter the nation. Start buying your canned goods and building panic-rooms into your homes now. Something wicked this way comes.

  by: theironboard     03/17/2006 07:13 PM     
Must be the new math

"$263 billion budget surplus, the national debt was $5.7 trillion. Today it is $8.7"

How do you have a "surplus" when you have a debt of 5.7 trillion?

"and the 9/11 attacks."

between this and natural disasters the totals are in the billions.

"A former Clinton budget director notes such debt, "makes you much more vulnerable to people’s agendas."

Ahhh a statement from the people responsible for the Enron and Tyco financial environment, but I dont see the vulnerability to Other People, what is china going to do, shut down wal mart?
  by: FTFFTW   03/17/2006 07:40 PM     
before you go declaring things as "new math" you might want to either:
a) learn some basic accounting
b) look up 'debt' and 'deficit' in a dictionary
c) read the source article

As for your last comment about WalMart... first of all WalMart is an American company so it's not like a foreign country can just shut it down. second... do you realize just how many people WalMart employs in the US? It would be no small event if WalMart closed down.
  by: bane39   03/17/2006 08:10 PM     
  Actually, FTFFTW... as glib as you like, we will be in a pretty sad state if our creditors decide to call in our debt. We are becoming increasingly dependent on other nations, so we all would do well to get the "We're the US, it doesn't matter!" nonsense out of our heads. How long are you willing to wait for it to be all OK again?

Let's not pretend that Bush himself was not connected to those same scandals and many more of his own. I was wondering how long it would take someone to snarl at the mention of Clinton, and it seems you've not failed to live up to expectations. He certainly makes a great scapegoat and diversion - 6 years later and still the most commonly used rebuttal to any criticism of Bush. The most amusing is when people complain of Bush bashing, then turn around with, "And we all know that CLINTON...!" betraying the real roots of the disgusting partisan politics of today.

As for the "new math," try reading the article, they explain the different terms related to the story. Obviously, I did not have the space to add that explanation.
  by: MomentOfClarity     03/17/2006 08:11 PM     
  This had to happen  
This was the only viable option available to the US government to stay solvent.

The US MUST be able to service it's financial obligations in the form of public debt - those repayments and redemptions must be made, the US's political and economical stability require it.

The US is strapped, and if it cannot meet it's financial obligations then two things will happen - countries are going to start demanding their money, and currency speculators are going to start selling, and selling hard. This will be politically and economically devestating.

Congress had no choice but to raise the debt ceiling. Dipping into the Federal Pension Fund, and cutting funding to education, health, and other areas cannot sustain the repayments required by the US's public debt forever - not even short term.

Now, I hope that someone in the US administration realises that this is not money for them to spend, it's for repayments, and redeeming bonds and securities.
  by: lauriesman     03/17/2006 10:02 PM     
of the petty sentiments... time to think What you as Americans have to do to get your country back to the way it used to be before bush took office.. Im from Barbados and I really like the US... I really wish things were better... I hope all of this is taken into consideration when VOTING for a new Prez cuz right now Im reading this post and am I like :tsk: :tsk:
  by: keanu1982     03/17/2006 10:08 PM     
  Worst President I can think of  
"It's amazing I won. I was running against peace, prosperity, and incumbency."
--George W. Bush, June 14, 2001, speaking to Swedish Prime Minister Goran Perrson, unaware that a live television camera was still rolling.

Funny how this quote is so widely reported by the media. News flash, Bush does not respect the United States Constitution or it's people's welfare. If you can give me an example of this, I can give you 100 to the contrary. "My answer is bring 'em on."
  by: banshee9898     03/17/2006 10:22 PM     
  The simple truth.  
Is that "money" is really just a concept. This is true, even more so for governments like the US. We hardly borrow from other countries, we borrow from the future, in the form of Savings Bonds. People or corporations buy those, wait for maturity to collect their principle with interest. Now as long as we dont default, which we never will, because we always issue more than we pay back, we will eventually reach another surplus, and that with inflation, will bring the debt back down... Not that it matters much, Money is simply a concept.
  by: wurm   03/17/2006 10:50 PM     
Indeed, money is just a concept...which causes war, hardship, and the downfall of nations. If you wish to take comfort in regarding money as such (and I almost hope you are being sarcastic in doing so), you need to also accept that this concept is what makes the world go 'round. The US is not infallible nor is it immortal - while we may never default, we can simply be crushed under the weight of our own debt.
  by: MomentOfClarity     03/17/2006 11:05 PM     
  doubt it  
"A former Clinton budget director notes such debt, 'makes you much more vulnerable to people’s agendas.'"

if there's one thing this administration has shown it's that despite public opinion and common sense, they bow to no ones agenda other than their own.
  by: manilaryce     03/17/2006 11:11 PM     
i dont know if you guys can recall but the soviet union went through the same process... the people raped it from the inside and it collapsed in on itself, USA is on the same path now... EXACT same path.
  by: starlock   03/18/2006 01:38 AM     
I never thought about it that way, but I think you're probably correct. Everyone should be preparing for financial hardship; $5-$7 a gallon gasonline, increased food prices, massive layoffs and possible hyperinflation (Get out of your ARMs now unless you want to lose your house).
  by: banshee9898     03/18/2006 03:37 AM     
A country isent supposed to make a profit. Why should it's debt matter? Doesent a countrys gold really matter?
  by: steme   03/18/2006 11:38 PM     
"Doesent a countrys gold really matter?"

Not when you can print as much money as you want. Gold cannot be made so easily.
  by: banshee9898     03/19/2006 01:21 AM     
  banshee9898: Beat you to it...  
I've already been planning for that sort of thing, and have now for a little while. Right now I'm looking at a nice little BushMaster to compliment my 'collection' of home/personal defense options.

I've warned friends of mine that the things were going to turn south, the global 'economy', outsourcing of American jobs, illegal immigration, etc., now they're starting to wonder themselves when things are going hit bottom...
  by: FreakKeeper     03/19/2006 10:37 PM     
U crazy people and your chaos theories. I seem to doubt you live in the state and would love to see the big dog go down. Ur crazy ideas really makes me laugh.
  by: steme   03/19/2006 10:59 PM     
  Down the rabbit hole...  
Oh yes, I've been preparing as well in recent months. It's good to hear others are as well. Just never really thought about the situation we’re in paralleling the Soviet Union’s before.

I also have been warning my friends and family to disinvest in both stocks and real estate and to use the money to buy gold and silver for many months now. They take the usual "I don't want to hear it" stance even though they've been proved wrong before. Most people don’t, won’t, or can’t take you seriously because they are stuck in their own little fantasy worlds. They sure will when they can't afford to get to work when fuel is $5-7 a gallon. Or when they can no longer work to buy goods because of massive layoffs (already happening). Collectors items won't have much value when staples like food cost three times as much to get to your area. But gold and silver will.

I'm not trying to be all doom and gloom, just realistic. The dollar has nowhere to go but down from here before it can go up. We’re falling into an even greater depression if these wars keep up. All anyone needs to do is look at history to see what's going on. Googling the word "inflation" or "hyperinflation" may be a start.
  by: banshee9898     03/19/2006 11:42 PM     
  Your choice...  
"You take the blue pill, the story ends. You wake up in your bed and you believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill, you stay in wonderland. And, I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes."


  by: banshee9898     03/20/2006 12:01 AM     
do you honestly think that USA is really that big and powerful? open up your eyes, its struggling to fight in 2 THIRD world countries WITH HELP from UK and Canada. They have nukes but at the same time, they have protestors and treaties that hold them down. The economy is starting to become totally dependent upon other countries, you know what happens when you start depending on other people? they control you, you dont control them anymore. If you can, read up on history especially the cold war era, look at the rise and fall of the soviets.
  by: starlock   03/20/2006 12:27 AM     
I loved the way you phrased that, great way to get a point across.
  by: StarShadow     03/20/2006 08:36 AM     
that comment is meant for banshee's 'rabbit hole' statement..
  by: StarShadow     03/20/2006 08:37 AM     
  here's an idea  
why doesn't the U.S. just tax the rest of the world? it's not like other countries could do anything about it; not with the threat of our enormous military hanging over their heads. hey, it worked for the Roman Empire, why not the American Empire?
  by: l´anglais     03/20/2006 02:02 PM     
  Here's another idea  
How about people start demanding this administration actually work for a smaller government and more fiscal responsibility? I find it simply amazing what excuses so-called conservatives are willing to make now that they have gotten a Republican into the White House. You cannot exactly consider yourself to be a supporter of fiscal responsibility when you're talking how it really does not matter if the US shirks on its debts because we're powerful enough to be able to do so, or about how money really doesn't matter - these ideas are the antithesis of fiscal responsibility. Likewise allowing more government intrusion into our lives - when they scream depends on who says they are doing it for their best interest.

Listening to their talking heads is maddening men on a rack, stretched between their principles and the party line. They stretch, they wiggle, and they writhe around the real issues to reach a conclusion that things are still going well or better than they would be under *gasp* a Democrat. They mumble about the excesses of this government, but take their leaders to task? Never - next caller, please.
  by: MomentOfClarity     03/21/2006 01:19 AM     
Well said....the republicans of today stopped at
nothing to get another republican in the White
House, even if they do not abide by the party's
stance on many issues. The republican party is in
the process of splitting in two. Many true
conservatives can no longer support nor turn a
blind eye to the POTUS when the issues of the
economy and Iraq are popping up literally everyday.
  by: rj2   03/21/2006 07:12 AM     
  I would rather have  
28 eiffel Towers made of gold, how cool would that look,
  by: tiggyfiggy   03/21/2006 01:13 PM     
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