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11/03/2006 07:27 PM ID: 58095 Permalink   

Top Evangelical Goes Down on Gay Prostitute's Disclosure


"You just sort of blow it off," said Colorado Springs, CO churchgoer E.J. Cox to allegations that her pastor, Rev. Ted Haggard, paid male prostitute Mike Jones for sex over three years. The claims were made, with those of drug use, on Denver radio.

Haggard was the president of the National Association of Evangelicals until he resigned today admist the allegations. The senior pastor will also step down from his pulpit pending an internal probing by the church. Haggard has admitted to some guilt.

"I've never had a gay relationship with anybody. I'm steady with my wife. I'm faithful to my wife," Haggard said in an interview. A father of five, Haggard was ranked by Time magazine in 2005 as one of its 25 most influential evangelical leaders.

    WebReporter: MomentOfClarity Show Calling Card      
ASSESS this news: BLOCK this news. Reason:
  Check out the source  
There's a bit more detail than I could fit in the summary, such as the political climate of the region and the relation of this to their upcoming elections. This issue does seem to have exploded, since this all started Tuesday.
  by: MomentOfClarity     11/03/2006 07:37 PM     
when will christians learn? they always end up being exposed for their hypocracy. maybe this will be encouragement for his millions of members to be satisfied with their own piety and not everyone else's.
  by: nic142   11/03/2006 08:14 PM     
Clever Title
  by: Svengali   11/03/2006 08:19 PM     
As long as the message is good, who cares?

I'm not saying his message was good. In fact, it probably wasn't. In my opinion, a lot of churches have become overly self serving.

"We did those so we are good christians! Hooray for us, we are going to Heaven. Unlike all of those non (insert religious sect here) who are going to hell! Now let us spend millions of dollars on high definition sound equipment... complete with theater quality digital projects!" (I'm not speaking of all churches)

Churches shouldn't put near that much money into unneccessary things. If you do a good deed, don't talk about it, don't tell anyone you did it, just let the good deed be done. And for God's sake, don't claim to be holier than other people. That sort of behavior causes people to run into churches spraying everything with gasoline. (SN Reported)


  by: Svengali   11/03/2006 08:30 PM     
  If it's true  
that he really had sexual relations with another guy then he's simply a coward for lying about it and deserves all the bad press.
  by: caution2     11/03/2006 10:29 PM     
great title!
  by: Emp3r0r     11/03/2006 10:55 PM     
  The prostitute failed a lie detector test.  
  by: caution2     11/03/2006 11:14 PM     
Loved the title, I was expecting Valk to have written this one.
  by: jendres     11/03/2006 11:36 PM     
  It's not enough  
VERY NICE!! I am tired of evengelicals following the do as I say, and not as I do mentality. I wish they could all get taken down. Most of them are biggots anyways!
  by: Mile High Guy     11/03/2006 11:39 PM     
  to caution2  
He did not fail. Please don't be so vague. The expert giving the test said that mental exhaustion from the media on him has been a part of the reason for the deceptive answer. The test operator stated that this was not a good time to administer a test. another will be given after he has had time to rest.

The rev has admitted calling a gay Massage service and also admitted buying meth from the gay male. If you believe that someone calls a gay male escort service for a traditional massage, than you are clueless. This is going down in my city. I have been reading all of this through the liberal and conservative press and it looks like he really did all of this.
  by: Mile High Guy     11/03/2006 11:46 PM     
"Haggard's accuser fails lie detector"

How is that vague?

I'm going to chalk it up to bad reporting. If the person administering the polygraph has doubts about the accuracy of the test, they shouldn't be saying they detected deception(which was taken to mean he failed). They should just say the results were inconclusive.

  by: caution2     11/04/2006 12:16 AM     
  A couple..  
Of things. Firstly, the poltgraph test relies heavily on the mental state of the person being tested. If a person is mentally stressed, mentally exhausted, etc the usefulness of the test is compromised. Second, I think it's jumping the gun, to say that the test was failed, wait until the re-test. Also, 'some deception' does not equal total lie, a half-truth involves deception, plus, these tests usually involve several questions. To write this off and say he failed the test, because one answer showed 'some deception', is, in my opinion, unwise.
  by: StarShadow     11/04/2006 01:28 AM     
  The wording of the summary  
Great wording MomentofClarity, especially considering the subject matter.

'...pending an internal probing by the church.'
  by: Heresy   11/04/2006 02:07 AM     
  Lie detectors?  
Since when have they proved to be a useful tool?
  by: CrisW   11/04/2006 03:05 AM     
  It's Friday, we need some humor.  
I actually found the churchlady's quote to be the funniest part, and that was my original title. I thought it might be a little inappropriate for, um, hard news. ;)
  by: momentofclarity     11/04/2006 05:05 AM     
  He already admitted...  
He said he only paid the male prostitute for a "Massage", and about the drugs (crystal meth), he said he "bought them and then discarded them". There's a video of the interview too. Hypocrite SOB. Again, for those trying to justify the unjustifiable, He's already confessed.
  by: Paquito   11/04/2006 05:33 AM     
No he hasn't - he admitted to receiving a massage from a man he was referred to by hotel staff, and he has admitted buying but not using drugs.

There is no evidence that Haggard even knew about the man's sexual orientation.

As for buying and discarding drugs - I've done that too, when you're feeling at the bottom, there is a lot pressure and temptation to just give in. Just being that close to using was enough to push me back, thinking 'what the hell am I doing??'.

That is a far cry from admitting to having sex every month for years, and paying for it!

Someone is putting the money up for this attack, you can lay your life on it.
  by: lauriesman     11/06/2006 02:08 AM     
Polygraphs are still admissible expert evidence in court cases - they aren't considered conclusive, for sure - but they can be used to establish character.

Also, just being nervous is not enough to force a question over the established base lines, there has to be a significant movement.
  by: lauriesman     11/06/2006 02:13 AM     

I'm not sure if you're not up to date on this story, but there's nothing here to indicate that this man is anything but guilty. He's stated that, "I am guilty of sexual immorality," in relation to this case. Do you think he was talking about a massage? He's revealed that, "There is part of my life that is so repulsive and dark that I've been warring against it all of my adult life," in apologizing for his congregation for all of this. Instead of condemning his accuser as a liar, "Haggard asked the congregation to forgive his accuser, who Haggard said revealed 'the deception ... that was in my life.'"

There are usually two kinds of patterns to these stories - one where a person fights for the truth, the other where a person fights to slow the release of it. This is the latter case. I was a keystroke from wagering on Friday that the guy would have all but admitted to the allegations by Monday at the rate he was going. Looks like he's closer than ever now, and I guess I ought to have made that wager. You, on the other hand, oughtn't to go laying your life down upon things like this.
  by: momentofclarity     11/06/2006 02:27 AM     
It's entirely relative - what you would consider barely a shadow of sin, can appear like a dark stain to someone who holds themselves to and preaches more stringent standards.

He has said he was sexually immoral - but he doesn't say what that means or extends to. Sure you can jump to the conclusion that obviously his accuser is telling the truth - however why not just admit it then? I mean, if you are going to admit that you've been sexually immoral - why not just admit that the person is telling the truth, unless they aren't? To the contrary, the man maintains that he has NOT been unfaithful to his wife, or engaged in any sexual relations - even while admitting sexual immorality.

I'm not laying my life on it, but I'm not jumping to conclusions either - the guy deserves a fair trial - even in the court of public opinion.
  by: lauriesman     11/06/2006 08:31 AM     
  Yes! A trial!  
Give him a fair trial...then whack his peepee!!!
  by: White Albino   11/06/2006 09:31 AM     
Also, from that same article:

"He also noted that "the things I did opened the door for additional allegations.""
  by: lauriesman     11/06/2006 09:55 AM     
"It's entirely relative - what you would consider barely a shadow of sin, can appear like a dark stain to someone who holds themselves to and preaches more stringent standards."

Perhaps, but I doubt he got to his elevated position by falling on his sword for such minor things. This is not Joe Christian over-reacting, this is a major social figure, one with a greater persective on sin and salvation.

"however why not just admit it then? I mean, if you are going to admit that you've been sexually immoral - why not just admit that the person is telling the truth, unless they aren't?"

Well, you seem to be keeping the faith quite well given such ambiguous terms. Perhaps his reasoning is just that. Along with seemingly contrary claims that he has remained faithful (just as relative) and talk of the lesser allegations leading to greater (but presumably false), friendly observers are given just enough to assume the best.

Or, perhaps he's just slowly recanting his denial, as the high-profile accused often do. A man of character and conviction would fight for his integrity and a man of power based on these things, doubly so.
  by: momentofclarity     11/06/2006 11:29 AM     
"The senior pastor will also step down from his pulpit pending an internal PROBING by the church" Why does this sound kinky??
  by: kinko     11/07/2006 02:23 PM     
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