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11/17/2006 05:30 PM ID: 58378 Permalink   

Student Tasered After Forgetting His Uni ID


A man at UCLA (University of California at Los Angeles) was asked to leave the library when he couldn't produce his identification. After he refused, library staff called the police for assistance.

When officers arrived on the scene, they tried to escort the man off the premises but he became uncooperative screaming about the "Patriot Act" and the officers deemed it necessary to subdue the man with a Taser.

    WebReporter: spacechimp Show Calling Card      
ASSESS this news: BLOCK this news. Reason:
  Google is your friend  
In any case, UCLA, University of California, Los Angeles.
  by: Ec5618   11/17/2006 05:48 PM     
  More taser sensationalism  
I'm so tired of these stories...this is just another one about a belligerant individual who went too far and got zapped for it. If they ask for a student ID (not exactly a birth certificate or social security card, by the way), just show it. If you haven't got it, leave and go get it. These officers had a job to do, and before anyone can say, "But he was reading peacefully in a library," take note that they did not taser him at that point, but when he became unruly.
  by: MomentOfClarity     11/17/2006 06:11 PM     
  Doesn't surprise me.  
It's not like its the Land of the Free. More the "Land of the Secret Police Spying and Torturing".
  by: vash164   11/17/2006 06:13 PM     
  Great story  
but personal commentary doesn't belong in the article. I'm not trying to be the editorial police, just a friendly pointer.
  by: chaoticvengeance     11/17/2006 06:25 PM     
It seems several eye witnesses claim that the the student stood up to leave when the police asked him to, and only acted up when an officer grabbed him by the arm. Apparently, he loudly objected to being touched. He may have dropped to the floor voluntarily, or in response to being tazed. While lying on thev floor, he was tazed repeatedly.

I'm sorry, but even if the student was aggressive, I find it hard to believe that two officers of the law need to resort to using tazers to escort him out. Yelling 'get up' at a man, seconds after tazing him seems stupid, at best. And threatening to taze bystanders for voicing concerns is hardly wise, either.
  by: Ec5618   11/17/2006 06:28 PM     
Please don't put comments and personal opinion in your summary. Put that sort of thing down in the comments section. I edited that out.
  by: Lurker     11/17/2006 06:30 PM     
  A few things:  
A) You're required to have your student card to be on University grounds. They guy deserved it if he's going to be an idiot. Too many uni students are young adults who think they're above everything and they have a cause that they need to fight for. They're just idiots.

B) I'll let you off this time, but next time there are comments and personal notes in a new story I'm going to give it a "very bad" assesment. That's what the comments are for.
  by: rapscaLLion   11/17/2006 06:32 PM     
Tasers are a good non-legal (in most cases) option than alternatives but something to consider is do the police even have to resort to force of any kind in some of these cases and are the police more likely to choose to resort to force because they have tasers?

I do agree that the taser is a distraction from the main issue. Basically this is a story about the police using force and whether or not it was justified. I don't think there is enough detail in the source for any of us to believe one way or the other.

What I'm quite curious about is why he was asked to present his student ID in the first place. I know students are expected to present their id when asked on campus but in my experience it doesn't happen at random.
  by: bane39   11/17/2006 06:39 PM     
  After being tased  
from what I could count was 6 times, I figure he probably wouldn't have to much control over his bodily functions. So by them yelling at him to get up right after they tased him was kind of dumb.

Near the end of the video you hear one of the officers telling another guy to get away from them or they would taser him also.

I guess just cuffing and hauling him off was more difficult than to keep tasering him over and over again. I smell a law suit brewing here.
  by: slavefortheman     11/17/2006 06:54 PM     
i just saw this yesterday..

I can't really tell if the guy deserved the 5 or 6 tasings he got.. anyways there you go.. see for yourself.
  by: hobart   11/17/2006 07:03 PM     
  Sorry, i don't support the use of tasers  
i agree with Ec5618.
Police used to be a person you call for help; not to totally humiliate and scare the other person.
i am in university (a huge one) yet i hardly worry about my student card because i know almost everyone and they know me too.. i only go back to my house if i forgot the card and know i will need to check a book out (as the card needs to be scanned).
The policemen are over using tasers; instead of hiring policemen who only know how to click a button and put someone through so much pain, they should spend more on hiring/ training police how to use martial arts, so when they do hit someone, they know how painful it was for their victim.
  by: DarkAngelJG     11/17/2006 07:09 PM     
Police have to be tazered during training.
They're also pepper sprayed.

They know what it feels like.

The guy could have ended the situation straight away by getting up and leaving.

HE forgot his card, HE refused to leave as required, HE precipitated the situation.

At any time he could have left, he chose not to.

Police have to look out for their own safety too, they dont know this guys noit going to pull a knife and gut one of them, and I would take the risk either.
  by: GogeVandire   11/17/2006 08:48 PM     
  @ goge  
the student did start walking out, so he was willing.
we don't know what he was going through, but i know if i was in that situation and had a deadline next morning i wouldn't leave either!
  by: DarkAngelJG     11/17/2006 08:56 PM     
  Here's a link for the video  
You really need to watch the whole thing to get a real idea of how crazy this whole situation was. Spread the word, the media here in the U.S. seems to be backing away from it.
  by: razzygirl21   11/17/2006 09:04 PM     

"By this time the student had begun to walk toward the door with his backpack when an officer approached him and grabbed his arm, at which point the student told the officer to let him go. A second officer then approached the student as well."

Sounds to me like he was leaving.

The police escalated the situation, not him. And he got tased repeatedly for their own abuse of power.

In principle, I like tasers. There there are times and places for the technology.

This was not one of those times or places.
  by: Dedolito     11/17/2006 09:15 PM     
  basically torture  
Do what I say or else you will feel pain. When it should be do what I say or else you will be arrested.

I doubt this was the principle of providing tasers to police.
  by: jendres     11/17/2006 09:40 PM     
This disgusts me, he obviously couldn't get up the video shows him very limp being help up by the cops then being dropped and taser again.

I believe the students, that this was straight up the cops fault and I hope he sues them or at least gets those cops fired.
  by: splicer   11/17/2006 10:30 PM     
Note No1:
Testosterone and Authority don't mix very well.

Note No2:
I hope those cops are gonna get it.!!!
Completely unnecessary abuse of force.

Note No3:
I'm greek and it's ILLEGAL for police forces to enter a Highschool/Univercity/College/any educational institute in greece.
(circumvented only by a direct order of a DA, and only on extreme situations.. ie, they'll even ignore that a small riot, but *may* intervene on a very big one that's gotten out of control, and always after consulting the student boards/parties first).
Univercities are incumbators for political parties and activist groups, whenever there's trouble the police here just let's them sort it out amongst themselves. usually nobody gets killed, just a few chairs/desks/windows get trashed (I'm not saying that nobody gets injured though :| ).

Note No4:
What are all those other students doing just standing there? ...
I'l say it again, I'm greek, if this was happening to a felow student, in greece, and there was this many students around... the cops would:
a) Have backed off after evaluating the situation, and asked the student boards to act instead.
b) get lynched and end up in the hospital.

P.S. It just so happens that today is nov 17th. It's a Greek national holiday commemorating the events that took place on November 17th, 1973 in Athens' Polytechnio. More Info: ..and
And usually there's a riot on this day, every year, like clockwork, in the streets outside Athens' polytechnio.
The events on 1973 are the cause for the ban of entry of armed forces/police in all educational institutes.
  by: deadmeat     11/17/2006 11:00 PM     
I would like to know why you need identification to enter/be in a library in the first place.
  by: s0n0fagun   11/17/2006 11:30 PM     
  @ razzygirl21  
thanks for the video, i only watched the first few seconds and couldn't watch the rest (otherwise i would have broken the policeman's neck myself.
I don't see how anyone would say it is the student's fault unless they are inconsiderate people who have no idea what stading up for others/ defending other is like. In my opinion the policemen were barbarians and the taser should worl both ways, so every time a police uses it he gets a feeling of it too.
this is horrific and to thing no body stopped the display is even more appauling.
  by: DarkAngelJG     11/17/2006 11:42 PM     
No problem, I've just never seen something that horrible on tape before. It just gets worse and worse after the first minute. They taze him like 4-5 times, the last 3 times he was definatly in handcuffs and not saying anything (You can't tell before that if he is cuffed or not). Scary stuff....
  by: razzygirl21   11/18/2006 12:37 AM     
  4-5 times?  
thank god i stopped watching after the second one! thanks for the summary too!
  by: DarkAngelJG     11/18/2006 01:25 AM     
CAN be a useful tool, however they are definately being over-used, probably due to the fact that they are (usually) non-lethal. I may be wrong but, I also think that even though the cops get the pleasure of being tasered as part of training, I doubt that they are tasered 5+ times in quick secession, which is more in line with the way they are using them. Tasers are supposed to be tools, used in the appropriate situations, instead they are being (over)used at every opportunity, even if a taser isn't appropriate to the situation.
  by: StarShadow     11/18/2006 03:40 AM     
  I find this mostly disturbing..  
due to the fact I live in a college town and before I started to work for hte college.. I wen tot he libary all the time.. not ONE time was I EVER asked to produce a ID for ANY reason. (Sure If I wanted to check out a book I'd have needed one..) So why was this guy asked to produce one?
  by: CaveHermit   11/18/2006 03:48 AM     
That's disgusting.

@MoC: Have you seen the video? Does it change your mind at all?
  by: erasedgod   11/18/2006 04:15 AM     
  in the words of ICE CUBE the great  
F**k the police! Especially campus police. At my university they always walked around like they were special or big bad asses or something.
I've been a bouncer at heavy metal concerts and bars and these guys could have easily gotten this skinny dude out of the library with out using their taser. I would have liked to see the students rise up and mob those pigs.
  by: shaohu     11/18/2006 05:15 AM     
  It Seems,  
This article's got a lot of people talking and both sides of the discussion are valid.

Me I'm gonna sit on the fence and say, tasers are a good idea because it removes the polices need to shoot people with their side arms. However that's a double edged sword resulting in the sporadic overuse of said non-lethal weaponry.

Someone commented that the guy would have been too limp to get up after tasering but this video also on youtube shows someone else getting tasered and it wears of fairly quickly.

Also interestingly enough, although the guy in the video is big enough and ugly enough to take care of himself, he started to cooperate very quickly afterwards.

Whether the use of the taser in this video can be deemed necessary or not is irrelevant. All I can say, is going off this video for reference, the student wasn't doing anything other than making life difficult for himself.
  by: spacechimp     11/18/2006 01:25 PM     
  quick question  
what are the effects of tasers on people with health problems... things like epilipsy or problems with the nervous system ?
  by: DarkAngelJG     11/18/2006 02:49 PM     
yes, but some people recover faster than others. I know some of my friends stay ill for a week after a cold while others recover overnight. when i broke any bone it recovered in less than 3 weeks while my friends needed between 4-6 weeks!
  by: DarkAngelJG     11/18/2006 02:52 PM     
  For your consideration:

Tasers are made for self-defense against a violent perp. They are not made as an easy way to get cooperation from skinny college kids. Anyone who isn't at least irritated by this incident needs to be tased a few times for some perspective.
  by: erasedgod   11/18/2006 11:30 PM     
You should know my MO by now, I dont try to offend or start arguments as everyone is entitled to their opinions :)

but I will say this:

You're right, people do have different recovery periods and the gorilla in the vid I posted was a big bloke so naturally would be expected to recover relativly quickly.

But I've done a little digging on tasers (not sure how reliable this info is as it's come from a retail site flogging these things but...) the taser

Have a read, I certainly learned things I didn't know. For example it's not the Voltage that kills you and they're not considered powerfull enough to effect pacemakers or people with dodgy tickers :)
  by: spacechimp     11/19/2006 12:44 AM     
ofcourse i know you weren't starting an argument and i wasn't offended at all!
tat was very interesting and now i have more questions!
the article doesn't discuss conditions like epilipsy or conditions where there are problems with the nerves/ eletric signals.
the fact it alters the sugar... if a taser is used on a diabetic wouldn't it be a bit too dangerous (as diabetics don't have as much/ any control over their glucose levels)?
  by: DarkAngelJG     11/19/2006 01:01 PM     
first sentence only was for spacechimp!
i couldn't find usefull information/ answers for my question so any suggestions welcome!
  by: DarkAngelJG     11/19/2006 01:02 PM     
  I'm watching the incident now  
4 seconds

The guy has interupted EVERYONE in the computer lab.
Everyone, who brought their ID, sat down quietly, and did their work, has now had their concetration broken.
How long will it take them to get back into it?
15m, minutes?

30 seconds
The security are talking in clear level, if loud, voices, he's screamning agressivly.
As far as we know so far, he has no right to be there, has been aslked to leave by the staff in charge, has refused.
Was he that aggressive with them?

I assume this when he's tazered
He's still screaming abuse and being very agressive.

1 minute 15
He got tazed for no reason?
Assault, at least two accounts?
Breach of the Peace?
Thats three reasons.

1 minute 25
Your abusing your power.
No, they're doing there job.
The man is breaking the law, and refusing to leave the building.

1minute 45
Resisting arrest
assault (verbal)

Continuing his others

Not sure what happens here
Possibley he gets tazered for no reason, could be he jumps at them, hard to tell.
Considering his behaviour so far, I would take any chances.
Either way, he is talking, so perfectly in control of his motor function.

The police pick him up and drag him away

looks like an unnecessary tazer, the police should have just dragged him away rather than demand he walks, but no doubt if he was hurt eing dragged down the stairs, he'd sue, catch 22.

4minutes, gneral yelling, cant see much

Generaol milling around and shouting from the crowd.
One is threatend with being tazered, I assume this is the incident you all mean, go back a minute anbd notice his actions towards the police, more than enough to arrest him too.

Were the polices actions unecessary?
Absolutly, the guy should have left long before the police were called.

He didnt, he was extremely abusive, so his fault.
I hope he gets sent to jail.
  by: GogeVandire   11/19/2006 04:19 PM     
Thank you for that incredibly neutral dissemination. For the record, the pain inflicted by tazers isn't meant punishment. Even if he was trespassing, and was breaching the peace he shouldn't have been hurt. As for assault, I do believe none of us knows what happened. You cannot know he assaulted anyone.
  by: Ec5618   11/19/2006 04:27 PM     
he was physically "assaulted" too.
oh, and when someone is acting like that you talk to them and they will do what you want, you act like a kid and taser them and they will show alot of resistence before they physically give in to the torture and obey you.
another thing, the guy made some noise and spoilt their concentration for a few minutes, is that worse or the truma of seeing ll this happen and remembering it?
how do you know he was the only one without an ID? there could have been a dozen without IDs but the security personnel/police never made it to them because they were very ocupied by 1 person.
  by: DarkAngelJG     11/19/2006 05:35 PM     
What should the police have done?
And we do know he assulted people, screaming get your f*cking hands off me is assault.

He was physicaly assaulted for breaking the law, during the cause of his arrest, which he was resisting.

I dont know he was the only one without ID.
I do know he was the only one who was asked for, it couldnt provide it, refused to leave, became abusive to the point where staff felt they had to call the police, resisted arrest ect ect ect.
  by: GogeVandire   11/19/2006 05:41 PM     

I completely disagree with your assessment. First, I would remind you that the video does not start until after the altercation had already begun. You start your analysis under the false presumption that the altercation starts with the guy being unreasonably belligerent. I would suggest to you that we’re missing a good 10-15 seconds of what happened, given that people don’t just walk around recording their fellow students for no reason. An altercation had already begun, then the students fished out their cell phone cameras.

You say “"As far as we know so far, he has no right to be there, has been aslked to leave by the staff in charge, has refused."

Did you not read the source? Have you looked beyond the source? Have you purposefully ignored what already posted in this thread? I can only assume so because it’s be stated pretty clearly that they guy was leaving the building when the police decided to involve themselves. Here’s a quote:

"“I went back to my work, and when I looked up, I saw that [Tabatabainejad] was already LEAVING the library,” said Laila, a UCLA student via e-mail. Laila asked that her last name not be used. She said that she does not know Tabatabainejad and was just another student studying in the library. “He had his backpack on his shoulders, and was next to my computer (about 2 feet away) when he was approached by two [UCLA police] officers.”"

That kinda shoots a big hole in your justification for the escalation of this event, doesn’t it? Why did the police decided to physically accost the student? All they wanted was for him to leave. He was leaving. Would not have standing back and observing him go been the appropriate course of action? How did we go from him leaving (the desired outcome) to him leaving handcuffed after being tased 4-5 times?

“The guy has interupted EVERYONE in the computer lab.
Everyone, who brought their ID, sat down quietly, and did their work, has now had their concetration broken.”

I find it curious that despite being so terribly interrupted and having their concentration so shamefully disturbed by the student in question, that the students are not rallying around the police officers for being their study saviors. Or maybe having their studies interrupted isn’t all that bad of an offense. They clearly seem to think that tasing their fellow student was completely unjustified.

"He got tazed for no reason?
Assault, at least two accounts?
Breach of the Peace?
Thats three reasons."

Trespassing? He’s a student at UCLA in a UCLA library. I don’t know about where/when you went to school but a “Papers please” mindset is not one that goes over well on a liberal campus.

Assault? By not standing up? Since when is laying on the ground assault? Do you hear the officers yelling at him to put down a weapon? To back off? To "assume the position"? No, you don’t. All you hear them saying is "get up". Laying on the ground is not a taserable offense.

And you know what? passive resistance -- going limp as a form of protest, is a pretty time-honored and accepted form of non-violent protest in America, or did you not ever see any of the Vietnam War protests? The Civil Rights protests? Where would we be today if police of the 60s just tased everyone that was acting inconveniently?

Breach of the peace? Who came rolling into a library to accost a guy who's already on the way out by all accounts, then tasing him? I don't think the guy Breached the Peace any more than the oficers in question.

“Your abusing your power.
No, they're doing there job.
The man is breaking the law, and refusing to leave the building.”

They tased him for not standing up while they tased him. And that’s not abusing power? Their “job” isn’t to physically accost, then taser students. What aw was the student breaking? He didn’t show them ID, that’s not a crime. He was in the act of complying with a private institution’s ID rule – that is he was in the act of leaving the premises. How is this breaking a law?

“Resisting arrest
assault (verbal)”

At what point do you observe hi resisting arrest? At what point do you see him attempting to elude the police? Threaten or use force against the police? How has he verbally assaulted the officers? I’d like a quote.

“Possibley he gets tazered for no reason, could be he jumps at them, hard to tell.”

Please. At what point in the entire video do you get the idea that he’s attacked or assaulted the police in any fashion? The spend the majority of the time yelling at him to get up, which is not indicative to any sort of assault or attack on them by the guy. The guy is screaming in pain when he pops up for that half second. That’s not lunging at an officer, that’s a convulsive reaction to having electricity pumped into him.

“looks like an unnecessary tazer, the police should have just dragged him away
  by: Dedolito     11/19/2006 06:10 PM     
“looks like an unnecessary tazer, the police should have just dragged him away rather than demand he walks, but no doubt if he was hurt eing dragged down the stairs, he'd sue, catch 22.”

Ok, now your are just blatantly being a police apologist. “They tased him so he wouldn’t sue”. Riiiiight. Did you note that they carry him out in the end anyway?

“One is threatend with being tazered, I assume this is the incident you all mean, go back a minute anbd notice his actions towards the police, more than enough to arrest him too.”

Bull. What sort of world do you live in where questioning authority is grounds for arrest? Citizens are not allowed to challenge authority when they think they are acting inappropriately? They have to meekly accept whatever the police deem necessary in all instances? Furthermore, all officers of the law must provide a badge number upon request. I didn’t see any of the officers present presenting any badge numbers. I do see one of them threatening to tase a guy if he doesn’t leave after he repeatedly asks for badge numbers throughout the event.

Tasers are not a tool of enforcement of will, they are tools to incapacitate someone who is a danger to themselves or those around them. That they were used at all here was an abuse of the power we the public entrusted these officers irregardless of how obnoxious the guy may have originally been.

Passive resistance by sitting on the ground does not constitute a threat. Telling the police to “F*** off” after getting tased does not constitute a threat. Being a loud-mouthed, disruptive annoyance does not constitute a threat.

The officers repeatedly used the taser as a punitive device; because he was not standing up they tased him. Therein lies the abuse of power. Not the physical accostation, not the request that he leave. But the tasing because he refused to comply with an order to stand up.
  by: Dedolito     11/19/2006 06:10 PM     
What should the police have done?”

They should have stood back and watched him leave, as that is what he was doing and al that was required of the situation. He was not under arrest at the time when the officers approached him.

”And we do know he assulted people, screaming get your f*****g hands off me is assault.””

This does not constitute assault by any criminal definition. If he had said “get your f’in hands off me or I’ll kill you” then that would be verbal assault and threat. Telling them to get their hands off him was a (inadvisably loud and needless) demand to which the police should have complied with because prior to that point he was not under arrest and had done nothing that warranted physical accostation. They grabbed him by the arm, and he reacted badly to it. They should have backed off and let him leave. Instead they tase him repeatedly.

He was physicaly assaulted for breaking the law, during the cause of his arrest, which he was resisting.”

Wrong yet again. He was not under arrest, the officers were there to escort him out of the building, nothing more. Because they chose to physically accost him during the course of that escort this entire event precipitated.
  by: Dedolito     11/19/2006 06:22 PM     
I have looked around on this, I was under the impression he was asked to leave by s5aff and refused, who then called the cops.
Last sentance of the SN article seems to agree.

The police didnt involve themselves, they were involved.
We dont know what he was doing before the screaming started, having his backpack on isnt proof of anything.

Maybe they're just anti police, hardly an unfounded accusation to level against a group of students.
Who, I might add, probably dont know anythings going on until the police show up and, from they're view, begin harrasing a student.

Trespassing, yes, trespassing.
Bering a student isnt the issue, its not hav9ing your ID card, and thats not anything to do with what the students want.
The university insists students have their ID, our opinions arent relevent on the issue.

Any actions likely to cause a person to reasonable feel there safety is threatend,
Screaming "get your f*****g hands off me" would qualify.

Breach of the peace.
The police didnt, "roll up", they were called.
The staff called the police, they obviously felt it was an issue.
And screaming abuse in a college library , again, qualifys as breach of the peace.
This wasnt a protest, it wasnt a civil rights march, it was a criminal act.

He wasnt in the act of leraving, he'd been asked to leave, and refused.
Which, again, is why the police were ASKED to intervene.

The guy wasnt "questioning authority" he was being abusive and agressive.
  by: GogeVandire   11/19/2006 07:45 PM     
If two trained officers feel threatened by a single unarmed man simply because he yelled, they really shouldn't be in this line of work.
You seem to be going out of your way to reach a specific conclusing, and seem unwilling to entertain other options.
  by: Ec5618   11/19/2006 11:53 PM     
  One thing has been nagging me...  
About this whole incident.

If the student was leaving why would the police have need to grab his arm and why would he have a need to scream out "get your hands off me etc etc.."?

Something about it doesn't add up. If he was genuinly out the door he should have just been gone already.

Sorry, as I say, its been pecking at me for a bit. I think we need to start a new thread of speculation about this
  by: spacechimp     11/20/2006 12:58 AM     
I am willing to entertain other ideas.

Unfortunatly, I'm finding it hard to find ideas that dont relate to some stupid kid breaking the rules.

Were the police right to tazer hm, maybe, maybe not.

Did he cause the situation in the first place, absolutly.
Had he behaved like a half decent human being, the police would never have been called.
  by: GogeVandire   11/20/2006 09:13 PM     
I'm glad you realise the police may not have been forced to use tazers. And I think we can all agree that the student was never in a position to inflict harm.

I disagree with you that he caused this situation, in that I'm sure he never intended for anything to go this far. He may have caused some trouble, but I find it hard to imagine what sort of trouble warants being tazered as punishment.
  by: Ec5618   11/20/2006 09:18 PM     
That he didnt intend it to go this far doesnt mean he didnt cause it.

Those police officers could and should have been out chasing real ciminals, instead they had to deal with someone stupid kid.

As I said, I hope they send hiom to jail.

Perhaps then the next person who forgets his ID will go and get it rather sing and dance, quite wrongly, about his rights and the patriot act.
  by: GogeVandire   11/20/2006 09:37 PM     
You're still asuming he did something to warrant being tazed. He shouldn't be punished unless found guilty of a crime. The same, obviously, goes for the officers.
  by: Ec5618   11/20/2006 11:19 PM     
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