Video footage of 9/11 news coverage by the BBC where the collapse of World Trade Center building 7 was announced over 20 minutes before it actually fell has conspiracy theorists buzzing and the BBC issuing a statement that its tapes are lost.
The video, posted on various websites, shows news reporter Jane Standley announcing the building's collapse while it is still intact and in clear view behind her left shoulder. The BBC claims it was a simple reporting error.
BBC editor Richard Porter, responding to the conspiracy claims, says that they 'no longer have' the original tapes of the news corporations 9/11 coverage, fueling speculation that the Tower 7 collapse was an 'inside job.'
Let's ignore the fact that the 911 conspiracy idiots could be behind this "video footage" - bending the truth to make a case for their insanity is apr for the course.
That's right, the Bush administration - who couldn't even keep WIRETAPPING a secret - somehow managed to coordinate thousands of employees from different branches of the military and the federal government to organize an attack against the America people . . . in order to justify going to war and stripping civil rights.
Never mind the fact that the US has never needed a valid excuse to go to war or strip civil rights. No - the Bush administration risked it ALL, wasting millions of dollars and thousands of lives to plan, coordinate, execute, and keep a COMPLETE SECRET a completely unnecessary event.
What total horseshit.
Before the tinfoil hat brigade comes on here yelping about Loose Change, please feel free to bookmark the following resources to punch great big holes in their stupidity:
A detailed and exhaustive list of errors in Loose Change:
The footage playing in the background is usually a time-shifted reel, not quite live.
You can usually tell the difference between live-on-the-scene footage and someone standing in front of a green screen as phase-shifted life footage is streamed into a compositing program.
Looking at that one tiny picture makes it hard to tell, but I'm leaning towards green screen.
Whether a green screen was used or not is besides the point. Even without the visual imagery, you're still left with the fact that the BBC reported the WTC #7 collapse over 20 minutes before it went down. The exact timeline seems unclear because there is no live time displayed on the BBC footage, but given that the reporters say its been 'some 8 hours since the first attack' puts the time at about 5.45pm (the first attack was at about 8.45am) and Building 7 came down at 6.20pm. The jury in my head is still out on the whole issue but the resulting debate and analysis is going to be interesting.....
that should read: '.....given that the reporters say its been 'some 8 hours since the first attack' puts the time at about 4.45pm'. I never was good at maths ;)
"but given that the reporters say its been 'some 8 hours since the first attack' puts the time at about 5.45pm (the first attack was at about 8.45am) and Building 7 came down at 6.20pm."
Yes, they said "some eight hours", as in "around/about/nearly/in the neighbourhood of eight hours". Saying "some" makes a report flow more smoothly, and does not indicate a precise meaurement of time.
Why am I not suprised by some of the people I see in here arguing on behelf of the conspiracy theorists? (No wonder I had such a difficult time getting them to understand simple logic!)
Until the mothership returns for some of you, here's a little something to make you feel more at home...
Say that and everyone thinks you a complete nutter. I think you guys are lacking in objectivity. The collapse of WTC7 is just too suspicious. There was no significant damage to the building at the time of its collapse.
PS. Conspiracies happen. 9/11 was a conspiracy. It was a conspiracy of muslim extremists.
Perhaps WTC7 was an insurance scam? People have done more for less!
For WTC 7 to have been an insurance scam, someone would have had to have known ahead of time about a planned attack on the Twin Towers, called in a demolition team to quickly but thoroughly rig the place up, and then levelled it without leaving a shred of evidence of a controlled implosion.
That, or this "insurance scam" just happened to fortuitously coincide with the attacks.
Yeah. I'll stick with the original theory, thanks.
That Jane Staldley was standing in front of a live view showing WTC 7 as she describes it in the past tense is virtually indisputable. The high-quality mpeg video clearly shows that she is in front of a row of windows in a tall building.
Controlled demolitions or a fire left to burn... Whatever. Besides, I suspect 8 hours would be enough time to demolish a building and no investigation of demolitions was ever performed so "evidence" is a moot point.
I expect people to quote professional demolitions experts etc, but perhaps military sappers would be a better source of the time it would take to demolish a building.
I'm still not convinced on WTC7 and will remain agnostic on that one.
So which was it, then: however the building was "intentionally" destroyed, the person who did so knew ahead of time that there would be an attack on the nearby towers that the scammer could take advantage of, or was it just coincidental great timing?
The original theory, unless I'm mistaken, was that it *was* destroyed by fire, from debris from the Twin Towers.
It's already been stated that WTC7 was brought down intentionally because of its closeness to the twin towers. Call me a crazy conspiracy wacko but the other towers were brought down intentionally as well, but that's another story.
And that theory is pretty weak. I've heard "hot gasses through underground tunnels" and other arguments. The fire theory is still weak and has been admitted as such.
It should be noted that WTC7 housed a few important tenants, eg Secret Service, DoD and CIA. Perhaps these tenants had failsafe measures to ensure no sensitive information fell into the wrong hands. Who the hell knows? Not you and not I. But still something stinks about WTC7.
They always come out the woodwork when these news articles are posted.
“You're not reading just the first few sentences of posts again, are you?” No. I’ve been visiting this site for seven years, now. It was just a matter of time…
1. NIST has still not been able to tell why WTC7 fell down. 2. Buildings closer to WTC7 with large fires and falling debris on them did not collapse 3. It was not hit by an aircraft and had no large fires 4. For it to collapse on it's own footprint all the supporting columns have to go at the same time, which is hardly possible due to fire on it's own
More importantly. How could 4 hijacked aircrafts fly around for almost 2hours for the last one and not be intercepted by NORAD. The average response time is about 15 min and is mandatory in all cases.
-Plenty of higher up people have questioned what has happened on 9/11: Example: Senator Max Cleland - Former member of the 9/11 Commission, resigned in December 2003: "I, as a member of the [9/11] Commission, cannot look any American in the eye... It is a national scandal... this White House wants to cover [9/11] up." More: http://www.911blogger.com/...
There have been military trainings with those buildings seen as targets.
So, the attacks didn't come as a surprise even if both of the "left" and the "right" say the same thing.
-Ron Paul (R) has warned for another gulf of Tonkin event to justify a war with Iran. -Brzezinski has warned that a false flag event could be used and then blamed on Iran.
And most importantly -9/11 was the New Pearl Harbor that was essential for the elite to go ahead with their plans for middle-east dominance which existed before 9/11.
9/11 has constantly been described as major opportunity and WAS extremely beneficial. Of that there can be little doubt.
that is what the NIST suggested in 2004, but admit they aren't sure as they're still researching the event. they're also looking into how "hypothetical blast events" could've played a role. there was more structural damage than FEMA originally considered, citing video footage of bowing/cracking on the south facade shortly before collapse, due to a multistory gash from debris from the towers which would've taken out many columns responsible for much of the building's structural integrity.
"14. Why is the NIST investigation of the collapse of WTC 7 (the 47-story office building that collapsed on Sept. 11, 2001, hours after the towers) taking so long to complete? Is a controlled demolition hypothesis being considered to explain the collapse?"
this is like the 3rd thread i've seen where people scream "occams razor!" .... who wants to bet NOBODY would say that if not for that TERRIBLE MOVIE Contact. Damn that stupid movie...
According to this site, all of you rank right up there with:
- "Dinosauroid-like Alien Reptiles are dominating the World" - "Barcodes are really intended to Control people" - "U.S. military caused the 2004 Indian Ocean Tsunami"
and my favorite:
- "The Nazis had a Moon Base"
It would really bother me if the only people that didn't think I was crazy were the ones I played "Dungeons & Dragons" in the basement with.
You would really think that having the huge ass trade towers fall would be good enough to start a war if that was the purpose of the administration. Oh but lets make this one tower fall down 9 hour later and that will really make the american people rally for the cause. WTF?
Do any of you realize how much damage a few thousand tons of debris can cause to a building or especially its foundation? The other buildings didnt fall for the same reason not all the eggs break when you drop a carton.
Does it not bother you that you just lumped every single CT'er there is as being of the exact same thought process?
You really might want to check out some half-way respectable CT sights, you'll find there are many highly intelligent AND thought differentiated people.
Not all CT'ers are about global Ralian domination.
I enjoy your desire to push your opinion on everyone, anyone that posts differntly is proclaimed inferior in your eyes. Well the truth is not democratic there will never be an investigation even tho there is reasonable doubt, you should even be able to admit that, and we will probly never know 100%.
If they had nothing to hide then why not yell out the anomalies to proclaim there innocence?
By the way there was ballpark 160,000,000,000 dollars in precious metals held under the trade centers during the attack, owned by companies all over the world, only 250 million were claimed?????????
And just a few weeks ago 8 BILLION cash tax dollars that were meant for relife in Iraq-Afgan mysteriously dissapeared. hmm wonder were that ended up
I don't think anyone on here as proposed a theory for 9/11. What I have seen, and agree with, is the expression of healthy skepticism and questioning oddities and inconsistencies.
I don't know what happened, but I am pretty sure there's a lot that all of us don't know.
To each their own. If it doesn't hurt or impose upon anyone else, more power to you.
Reading feedback forums on articles like this one gives me a good laugh. As much as I try to just spectate, I sometimes can't resist tapping on the glass. :-)
Just a few facts and to clarify some things which I don't think were mentioned:
1) The WTC's are supposed to not be able to collapse, but the jet-fuel heated the metal (near the core of the structure that that went all the way to the top) to a degree that it became unsafe and made the floors ABOVE the WTC collapse, which created a domino effect causing the building to collapse.
2) Some people think the structures near the WTC weren't as damaged (I know some buildings were damaged heavily though/taken out) as they should have been, but this is not true. Due to the massiveness of these buildings, gravity took over which made them pretty much fall straight down, and not sideways.
But I think this was all just coincidence about the news coverage 20 minutes before the actual collapse.
...just like Nostradamus "didn't" predict world war 2/ Adolf, or Napoleon...
Uhhh see how I slipped two sides into this argument? LOL
A RENDEZVOUS WITH DESTINY. There is a mysterious cycle in human events. To some generations much is given. Of other generations much is expected. This generation of Americans has a rendezvous with destiny. http://en.wikiquote.org/...
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Fox is not a credible news outlet and needs to be stopped. Foxattacks.com will give you the information and tools you need to hit fox where it hurts. The current video presents the erroneous and slanted stories Fox recently ran about Barack Obama. In response, Obama refused to appear on Fox. Watch the video, then follow Obama's lead and... Do Something. FOX ATTACKS: OBAMA http://www.foxattacks.com
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Google Blogs Alert for: 9/11 inside job
SABOTAGE IN THE WHITE HOUSE. CONGRESS, CLEAN OUT THE COCKROACHES. By Bgilmore
These are the people who strong-armed Congress NOT to investigate 9/11, who used every ruse to stop an investigation and to avoid testifying before the 9/11 commission. Why? Because, they said.... http://www.democrats.com/...
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Searching for 9/11 answers - By Derek Gentile, Berkshire Eagle Staff Monday, February 19
Part of group believes government planned attacks
STOCKBRIDGE — As much as "mainstream America" might wish it, the local members of the 9/11 Truth Movement say their organization is not going away anytime soon. "(An alternate theory of the attacks on Sept. 11, 2001, is) a scary thing for people to contemplate," said Renzo Del Molino. "And I understand that. The realization that people in power are trying to hurt us, and not help us, is very frightening to them. It's frightening to me." View Full Story:
"The world situation is worsening to an alarming degree. People all over the world are being called on to help, and are making their individual contributions as part of an overall prearranged plan. Part of the plan is taking down "A Course in Miracles," and I am fulfilling my part in the agreement, as you will fulfill yours. You will be using abilities you developed long ago, and which you are not really ready to use again. Because of the acute emergency, however, the usual slow, evolutionary process is being by-passed in what might best be described as a 'celestial speed-up.'"
....That seemed so strange and bizarre to her that she was ready to throw her notebook in the trash basket, and yet it triggered something like a long ago memory in her in which she said, "Of course I'll go, Father: it's for such a little while."
Still, she was obviously not completely satisfied, for she tried one more time to abdicate her position. "Why me?" she asked. "I'm not religious: I don't understand these things: I don't even believe them. I'm about the poorest choice you could make."
The answer came back very clearly, "On the contrary; you are an excellent choice. In fact, the best."
"But why?" she anguished. And then, without a hint of doubt she heard the answer: "Because you'll do it."
Helen had no response to that. She knew the Voice was right: she knew she would do it. And from that moment on the future of "A Course in Miracles" was set. Helen would "scribe" it to its completion, even though she might raise loud objections all along the way.
(From JOURNEY WITHOUT DISTANCE The Story Behind A Course in Miracles, by Robert Skutch)
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S P E E D - B U M P S
BBC Hit Piece a Tissue of Lies, Bias and Emotional Manipulation - prisonplanet.com
Outraged truth community demands answers from Guy Smith, immediate retractions and apologies urged, savage agenda driven yellow journalism an insult to the truth
The BBC's Conspiracy Files documentary about 9/11 was a tissue of lies, bias and emotional manipulation from beginning to end. Producer Guy Smith should be ashamed of himself for inflicting this travesty of yellow journalism upon the 9/11 truth movement and he is assured to encounter a vociferous and outraged response in its aftermath.
Separated into two categories below are a number of questions intended to highlight Guy Smith's production for what it was - a deliberate hit piece on the 9/11 truth movemen
"I enjoy your desire to push your opinion on everyone, anyone that posts differntly is proclaimed inferior in your eyes. Well the truth is not democratic there will never be an investigation even tho there is reasonable doubt, you should even be able to admit that, and we will probly never know 100%."
Yes, how rude of me to present lengthy and detailed information that punches giant holes in the bongsmoke speculations of people with far too much time on their hands.
"By the way there was ballpark 160,000,000,000 dollars in precious metals held under the trade centers during the attack, owned by companies all over the world, only 250 million were claimed?????????
And just a few weeks ago 8 BILLION cash tax dollars that were meant for relife in Iraq-Afgan mysteriously dissapeared. hmm wonder were that ended up"
I'm wondering more what the hell you're talking about.
@Myra99
Whatever that long string of gibberish is supposed to mean, it looks like it took a while to peck out. An 'A' for effort.
@pornohippy
That's it? That's your rebuttal to logic and reason? "Pull it"?
Look - if WTC 7 was an insurance scam, than either the owner would have had to know about the attack before hand (not bloody likely) or he had a comprehensive precision demolition team rig the building and level it within a matter of hours - EXTREMELY unlikely given the timeframe.
None of this conspiracy theory gets anyone anywhere - it doesn't change one ounce, one shred, of where we are in the world today.
All this pettiness and back biting, just showcases the true state of human existence, and indeed the self destructive nature of Americans in general. You all hate each other so much , its just hidden under a thin veneer of civility.
I just wanted to see what other sites had to say about the BBC blunder and found the above (amongst other things). Just search for "lost footage" via Google.
if anyone remembers even the tiniest bit of shoddy history they were taught they'd know the US fought the british empire to gain its independence. you think things have changed? the brits run the US federal reserve from london and in the words of one "great" brit, "americans are muppets." how much evidence do fools need? look at england selling out its people to the EU. this a serious matter and the longer you live in denial the more likely you are to become a complete slave or worse.
Volkova_Nova is standing on a street corner pretending to have an intellect, when suddenly a known liar with bloody hands runs by and says he just saw some brown people kill some other people. Based on this info Volkova_Nova sets about proving to himself that this is true by quoting other known liars and by insulting those who question the liar with the bloody hands who told the ridiculous cover story to begin with.
Now if Volkova_Nova actually knew how to use a sharp razor he would go here and start enlightening himself instead of pretending to use his tiny, little, dull razor. For the complete 200+ page timeline, go to http://www.cooperativeresearch.org
Thanks for the cooperative research link, that has some really interesting articles, especially the 9/11 timeline.
I see Volkova_Nova is the duty SN assh*le. Anyone who thinks they can debunk anything by picking holes in Loose Change (a lame movie IMO) is a bit retarded and shallow. Everyone is a conspiracy theorist, its just a matter of which theory you choose to go for. None has been proved conclusively (if you call the 9/11 Commission conclusive then you really aren't concentrating). And to anyone who thinks it makes no difference what happened, it makes a hell of a difference, since the murderers are still at large and actively looking for a new victim. In a quest for truth nobody is above question. If you choose to blindly trust, without real question, good luck to you.
The woman reporting probably does not have that indepth a knowledge of the names of the buildings. Is it not possible that she simply got mixed up in her report, which buildings were which. I mean WTC 7 to me would indicate one of the actual towers pre 9/11. Keep in mind this was awfully quick happening and confusing
Truth is.... there are people in the world who hated America enough to destroy two prominent icons of Western culture.
I don't particularly think Bush and company constructed a means to start WW3 for their own financial gain, but I sure do see some of his cronies attempting to benefit from the capital sales of weapons and war-support material.
This whole thing probably does come down to a matter of the reporter not knowing what tower is what- it was the most confusing day in American history and everybody was in shock....
... what does disturb me, as others have mentioned-- the fact that BBC, the most reliable and austere news reporting agency, 'lost' some of the most valuable video footage of the century.
I'm certain there are some people around the world who videotaped the BBC footage from that day and still have their copies. The fact that BBC... lost... theirs doesn't alter what can most likely be proven.
"Volkova_Nova is standing on a street corner pretending to have an intellect, when suddenly a known liar with bloody hands runs by and says he just saw some brown people kill some other people. Based on this info Volkova_Nova sets about proving to himself that this is true by quoting other known liars and by insulting those who question the liar with the bloody hands who told the ridiculous cover story to begin with."
If this is supposed to be in English, I'm guessing this is some sort of ad hominem attack, i.e., "Because Bush lied about other things, he must have lied about this."
As I said, rational logic dictates that the US has never needed a valid excuse to go to war or strip civil rights. ANY reason could have been given for doing these two things - there was no need for the Bush administration to have risked it ALL, wasting millions of dollars and thousands of lives to plan, coordinate, execute, this event, nor would it have been possible to keep it a COMPLETE SECRET.
@Flashby
"I see Volkova_Nova is the duty SN assh*le. Anyone who thinks they can debunk anything by picking holes in Loose Change (a lame movie IMO) is a bit retarded and shallow."
And I see that I must have struck a nerve here! Only the first link I provided debunked Loose Change - the other links have to do with debunking common 9-11 myths, the engingeering and physics behind the damage done, and so on.
Did Bush take advantage of 9-11 for his own benefit? Certainly, without a doubt. He used it as an excuse to invade two different countries and strip away a lot of American civil rights, not to mention his trampling of international law.
But for the same administration that wouldn't even keep WIRETAPPING a secret to have pulled this off is not only logisitically about as close to impossible as you can get, it would also have been completely unnecessary - hell, a faked video of Osama saying he was readying a nuclear weapon for use against the US would have been enough.
You can call me an asshole, or retarded, or whatever. I don't really give a shit. But at the very least, criticise accurately.
And I'm a GIRL god damn it. Stop saying "he/him/himself". It's right there on my visitor's card. I guess that underlines your superior research abilities.
First of all an apology for some factual errors in my previous post. The times should, of course, read the opposite way round in terms of GMT and EST.
Now, I don't want to show disrespect to anyone but the people who are submitting posts such as 'she was probably confused about which tower was which' are completely missing the point. Let's take this slowly....using New York time to avoid confusion.
Jane Standley was a BBC New York Correspondent covering the events of that day.
At around 4.54pm, she started broadcasting reports of a building that had collapsed. Apart from the Twin Towers, no other buildings had collapsed in the complex at that point. Presumably, we can all agree the additional building she referred to wasn't one of the Twin Towers. So, then she identifies the new collapse as The Salomon Brothers Building (ie. WTC7) and correctly identifies it as having 47 storeys. So, not much confusion there. Thirty minutes later that building does, indeed, collapse. No plane hit it. No major structural damage. No intense fires. Now, no-one is seriously suggesting the BBC were in on some kind of plot but they were reporting 30 minutes early on a building collapse. That story had to have come from somewhere - another media outlet, a newswire, or a government source. Whoever it was demonstrated prior knowledge of the intended collapse. Intended collapse! Controlled demolition which had to have been planned in advance - and not some decision made on the day by either the NYFD or Larry Silverstein. Therefore, my friends you have primae facie evidence of a pre-planned plot or (dirty word alert) conspiracy.
And who is more of a nutt ,he who belives that 19 muslims with a boxcutters hijacked 4 planes and hit with 75% accuracy exactly when NORAD was executing a drill about that. And Osama planned and coordinated these atacks in some cave in the middle of nowhere ? And on the other side there's a theory about government who had the money, the motive and secret service at their disposal. Come on, but the media says that we are the crazy ones.
My feeling is (if it was pre-planned) that news of the intended collapse was prematurely released through the AP newswire or something similar because CNN delivered a similar report. The BBC was probably totally unaware that the building behind the reporter was WTC 7 and just reported what they were told as they were told it. Then, 5 minutes before the building was 'pulled' and 15 minutes after the mistake had been made the transmission was cut. And the BBC didn't just report that the building had come down - they also reported casualty details (that there weren't any) and other 'facts' which later formed the official account (except one person actually WAS killed in WTC 7, but that isn't mentioned officially). Put all of this next to eye witness accounts of the build-up to the collapse and it would seem to be consistent with the theory that WTC 7 was demolished in a pre-planned manner. All I know is that there are more questions than answers, and the ppl who follow the official line tend to think up answers instead of actually comming up with factual explanations.
I agree. That seems to be exactly what happened. Somebody, somewhere released this news too early. CNN & BBC then broadcast it and have provided us with a very clear piece of evidence towards proving some degree of pre-planning by the authorities on 9/11.
a similar video clip has been released but this time its the domestic BBC News report and this time it has a clock on the screen - http://www.informationliberation.com/...
Sometimes we just have to let things go. 9/11 is over, done, gone, yesterday, unchangeable. Don't dwell on this, it's not important enough IMO. Placing blame solves nothing.
You'd think this would have came to light as soon as the footage went public.
@lauriesman "I DONT CARE! YAY for me!!" - Poking your head out and throwing out comments like this along with supplementing personal viewpoints usually mean that you care. Otherwise you wouldn't have said anything.
No one said the BBC is part of the conspiracy; they just got the info early and reported on it. They were not in on it. People think that something like this couldn’t be kept a secret? Are you crazy out of all things, this is the one thing they would probably strive to keep secret. So what? because they couldn’t keep the wire tap program a secret decrees that they cant keep any secrets, so you don’t think there are any government secrets right now? or classified projects going on right now? Manhattan Project was kept secret for how long? Till the bombs blew up over Japan? Sr-71 Blackbird was kept secret... Maybe they purposely leaked the wiretap so people could give that excuse. Who knows... the simple fact; probably for every 1 secret that is leaked there are 30 other well kept secrets. Another thing, a lot of people, especially fox people refer to the show 24, saying " oh look at 24 that could really happen to us" do they fail to realize that the whole premise of last season that led up to the conclusion was that the president and some of his staff were behind the attacks. And even this season now people in the administration are plotting to kill the president and blame it on someone else, sound familiar? So hey if these crazy conspiracies can happen in 24, maybe they can happen in real life… Do yourselves a favor and check out the fbi’s own website and see what Bin laden is wanted for, because it isn’t for 9/11 because they say that there is not enough evidence to connect him to it.
Good lord Banshee, I find it hard to just turn the other cheek at the lost lives of 3,000 people.
If there are additional guilty parties involved than shouldn't we investigate this further, no matter where the trail may lead us, even if it goes up our own governments chain of command? Which is a very frightening thought.
I hope there is further investigation that follows, and the idea of sweeping suspicion under the rug does not get pushed through.
I'm not going to dwell on it anymore. I researched 9/11 for probably 4-5 years before I found that out. The more that I researched, the more uncertain I became.
Yes, I don't care. Its done, I've accepted it and it's time to move on and do what I can from here in the present.
A week before this pre-knowledge the BBC had of WTC 7's collapse, before anyone else in the world knew . . . was preceded by a bizarre BBC attack piece on anyone questioning the events of 9/11 and the official story.
In the BBC documentary they interviewed non-professional lay people about the "sanity" of anyone questioning 9/11.
HOWEVER, the BBC purposely AVOIDED interviewing the physicists, engineers, military and intelligence experts who believe 9/11 was an INSIDE JOB.
Many were there talking to the BBC, including a NYC policeman who was there at 9/11. But, the BBC refused him air time, rather giving it to a TV producer who called anyone questioning 9/11 "deluded."
The BBC now claims it has "lost" the most precious footage in modern media history ??????
You can read high level military and intelligence experts who believe 9/11 was an inside job. After you do, ask yourself this, "Why did the BBC avoid all these people in its 9/11 documentary?"
ah, finally! lerning from history is 1 thing, but trying to look t it and point fingers at others is just wrong and will cause more problems. Learn to move on and improve your present and future rather than staring back and tripping as time keeps on going.
Volkova_Nova I apologize for calling you a male. When I see someone from the fools and tools club posting lies, disinfo or misinfo--I just naturally assume they are males. If you use your 'rational logic' to actually research the issue, you will understand. Anyone intelligent enough to type a sentence, will have questions that demand answers.
The truth is that Bin Laden is not listed on the FBI’s most wanted list for the attack of 9/11, because ‘there is no hard evidence’. http://www.teamliberty.net/...
Most of our fighter jets were in Alaska and northern Canada as a part of Operation Northern Vigilance. http://en.wikipedia.org/... Global Guardian was running in conjunction with Vigilant Guardian . In essence, this is a massive nuclear air defense drill that puts blips all over radar screens and involves the United States Strategic Command in conjunction with Air Force Space Command and NORAD. But there is one drill he emulated, that really speaks to his genius. A National Reconnaissance Office drill was being run exactly in conjunction with Osama’s real life performance that simulated a plane flying into a building! http://video.google.com/... Improbable Collapse video http://911eyewitness.com proof and activism
The 9/11 Conspiracy Theories (We Must Have A New And Completely Independent Investigation Into The Events Of 9/11)
I could understand your logic if it was all consigned to the past, but the ppl who may have brought all of this about are still there and are continuing to do their thing. If someone was murdered and the true killer never bought to justice, would you react by saying 'ah, well, its in the past, it can't be changed' and let the murderer carry on murdering others? If so, you presumably wish that nothing had been done following the 9/11 attacks, which is crazy. Until the remaining questions surrounding 9/11 are answered the case remains open, since there is a reasonable chance that justice has not been done and it could happen again. Are you happy about Iraq? Are you ok with the thought of war with Iran? Are you ok with the prospect of an open-ended war that will never be concluded? If the true account of 9/11 and the 'war on terror' is significantly different to what we've been led to believe (and many believe that it may be) then we can't bury our heads in the sand and pretend that a peaceful future is assured.
but all these wars and tickets for a specific group to do as they please are always kick started by refering to 9/11. because people are still attached to that event. the holocaust happened, the genocide in rwanda, armenia, serbia,darfur etc... happened. Yet we all clutch at the word holocaust and hardly show any emotion towards the other events or even now they existed. Why? because specific things are used against us citizens to make us do what the powerful want us to do, hate who they want us to hate and happily send our children to war when they want us to.
Yes, I am happy. I don't believe that problems can be solved with the same level of thinking which created them; those being ill content, unhappiness or ungratefulness. We can see this in abundance in the forum. Is anyone helping to solve the problem or perpetuate it by arguing who did what?
If those things must come to pass then I will accept them as well. Until then, I'm doing what I can at the moment to prevent any unfortunate eventualities.
Voltaire once remarked: “Life is thickly sown with thorns, and I know no other remedy than to pass quickly through them. The longer we dwell on our misfortunes, the greater is their power to harm us.”
I will take his advice, anyone else can do what they want. Live and let live.
Anyone else seen the footage where Larry Silverstein recalls his conversation with the FDNY chief when they decided to "pull it"?
Anyway, it really disheartens me to see people turning a blind eye to information. That's never a good idea. Most of these "conspiracy theorists", as you closed-minded individuals like to put it, are simply asking questions. Few, if any, are pretending to have all the answers. However, some of you claim to "know" that nothing shady happened here. Some people want answers, other say they have them all when they most-assuredly do not. Why did the BBC report the collapse before it happened? Why did the building fall perfectly straight into a neat stack in six seconds? Why were the towers the only steel towers ever to fall due to fire? Just questions... no need to get up in arms about it... unless it really makes you doubt what you "know".
I'm pretty sure Voltaire was referring to the struggles in life which are inevitable. This is somewhat different, but I realise that not everybody has the stomach for this kind of thing.
LOL. There you have it. Our struggles are inevitable if we make them to be so. Poking at my ego might just wake it up. Let's try to remain civilized and refrain from ego pokage shall we? :D
A RENDEZVOUS WITH DESTINY. There is a mysterious cycle in human events. To some generations much is given. Of other generations much is expected. This generation of Americans has a rendezvous with destiny. http://en.wikiquote.org/...
~~~ S O M E O F T H E A B O V E N E W S ====================::::::::::::::::::::::
Is the Military Our Last Hope?
By Paul Craig Roberts
Is the high command of the US military breaking ranks with the Bush Regime?...
Perhaps America could regain its reputation if General Pace would send a division of US Marines to arrest Bush, Cheney, the entire civilian contingent in the Pentagon, the neoconservative nazis, and the complicit members of Congress and send them off to the Hague to be tried for war crimes.
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Rabbi Michael Lerner & 9/11 Skepticism
A 9/11 Gov’t Conspiracy? ‘I Wouldn’t Be Surprised,’ Says Tikkun Editor
Daniel Treiman | Tue. Feb 06, 2007
Rabbi Michael Lerner, the longtime activist and editor of Tikkun magazine, has published an essay saying he is open to the possibility that the American government may have been behind the September 11 terrorist attacks. http://www.911blogger.com/...
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IS PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE KUCINICH GOING FOR THE TRUTH ABOUT 9/11?
DEAD ON ARRIVAL The NIST 911 Report On The World Trade Center Collapse By Mark H. Gaffney http://rense.com/...
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ARE YOU A 16 PERCENTER?
There is help for you!
If you are among the 16% who still believe the Neonazicons' conspiracy theory about 9/11, YOU CAN BE HELPED! Simply click on the links below to read the scientific debunking of the Bush pseudoscience fairytale about the WTC 9/11 atrocity.
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Founder 2002: Johannieson & Friends Editor: Myra M. Jackson
Before you go off down the "tin hat conspiracy nuts" road. Let's take a look back at history. Now this no anti-German stuff or anything like that. Just a historical reference. Back in the day, if someone suggested that the Nazis torched the Reichstag building as a means of causing fear and panic among the population, and to blame the communists so they could easily eliminate them and help themselves rise to power; or the events that lead to the invasions of Poland and Czechoslovakia were staged for the Nazi's benefit; they would have been called "nuts" at best, and we won't get into the worst. Yet, today we know it all to be true. Now, many years later, with much more sophisticated technologies of all types (including propaganda abilities) than they had back in the 1930s, is it possible that 911, the Iraq war, the saber rattling with Iran etc. are modern day equivalents of the events of the 1930s? Something to consider.
it's ok to learn from history, but people are letting history control them (9/11) which is not good. I am all for using history examples as it is good for learning but i am totally against letting history control our lives and make us live in constant fear.
I agree, about not living in fear. I just want to point out that we need to be aware of who is doing what.
I watched a video of a retired German intelligence official. He said that staging an attack on yourself as an excuse to attack your enemy, panicking the public in the process so they will get behind the attack, is the "oldest trick in the book", probably dating back at least to the ancient Chinese. When you consider that the folks in Washington right now aren't exactly "Mother Theresas", and you consider the natural gas pipeline and opium poppies in Afghanistan, and oil in Iraq and Iran...
There's only one important question concerning the attacks, did the US gov't allow/participate in 9/11?
The answer to that query would explain the illegal wire-taps, suspension of habeas corpus, opening of mail, banning of books like "America Deceived" from Wiki, detaining of dissenters in fences miles away from events, and multiple wars based on lies.
How can the gov't be innocent in 9/11 when we have caught it lying so many times (WACO, Ruby Ridge, no WMDs, USS Liberty, Operation Northwoods, Gulf of Tonkin, Pearl Harbor, collapse of WTC#7, ETC.)?
In law, if you determine a person lies ONCE during his testimony, it can be assumed that he lied in the remainder of his testimony. How come we do not hold the gov't to the same standard as it holds us to?
indeed, even hitler's analysts said this from his speeches. I am not saying they are angels, i am justannoyed at those who still refer to 9/11 and how "the terrorists killed many people hence we should kill more".
you said: '...i am just annoyed at those who still refer to 9/11 and how "the terrorists killed many people hence we should kill more"....'
That is exactly how I feel, which is why I want to find out if what 'we' are doing now is justified. If 9/11 was a setup or was allowed to happen then it is our own governments that we should be dealing with and not the thousands of innocent people who are currently on the receiving end of our military actions. If it transpired that the neocons had a hand in 9/11 would you not want some kind of justice to be done? Or would you be happy to allow such people to continue as they are?
We'll just sit back with no facts to back us up and say everyone (including the family members of the victims who say 9/11 was in inside job) tinfoil hat-wearing conspiracy theorists. We'll bash Loose Change because all they really did was ask questions (and are finishing The Final Cut to correct what was on the last one and give other info). Let's all just forget about the following.. First responder NYPD officer Craig Bartmer was told the building would be brought down http://video.google.ca/...
Larry Silverstein who took out a 99 year lease on the WTC complex admitted they pulled it. He later denied that "pull" meant demolish. http://www.youtube.com/...
Is Carpenter Marlene Cruz crazy for saying there was an explosion in WTC sub-basement level B? http://www.youtube.com/... A 9/11 toxic dust whistleblower, a ground zero hero and one of the individuals influential in the release of documents proving a government cover-up that deliberately put police, firemen and rescue personel at risk, has been raided by a New York SWAT team - who ransacked his home for three hours after he was arrested. http://prisonplanet.tv/... Hollywood director and former buddy of Nick Rockefeller is a kook to for saying Nick told him an event was going to take place causing the U.S. to attack Afghanistan and Iraq 11 months before 9/11? http://www.prisonplanet.com/...
What about the insider trading on those airlines? They reported on it and then dropped the storey. Did they catch anyone? What about the admitted drills of planes flying in to the WTC and Pentagon at the exact time it was really happening? Does the fact that terrorists were in U.S. Flight schools before 9/11 bother you? Why were U.S. troops conveniently positioned in Afghanistan before 9/11? Why was NY and Washington unprotected? The U.S. Patriot Act 1 and 2 totally shred the constitution. Since 9/11, cameras have gone up everywhere(including bathrooms in gradeschools), and every American is treated like a criminal? Laugh and snicker all you want. Go ahead and call people names because you won't check out any facts for yourself. http://www.prisonplanet.com/...
i am not a revenge kind of person but i would like to see them in court for what they did and the blood they shed. However, many misinformed/ pro-B would believe what they are saying and the admin won't stop using the memory as a painful reminder to get people on their side; after all, you are either with them and feel for those who died or you are against them and your heart is made of stone!
Click this article and then watch the clip within as Aaron Brown announces the collapse and then stutters around, because the building clearly still stands right behind him--Let me explain this to the deniers of truth--CBS News in NYC puts out news releases that the rest of the nation and world use as the news--they put out the news release that WTC 7 had fallen--it had not fallen (yet), but they knew it was going to (how?)--this is called scripting and then screwing up the script--Wake Up deniers--I know it seems safe in your worlds of delusion, but reality is breaking through--be a part of the change http://infowars.com/... watch aaron brown announce the fall of WTC 7 as it stands in the background
1. Disinfo Agent Troll: Paid to try to spin off the overwhelming 9/11 truth facts.
2. Sheeple: Fox-News viewer, and the primary reason the NWO is able to advance on our the continual elimination of all our freedoms.
3. 9/11 Truther: Modern day patriot that stands up for freedom at great risk to physical person and personal career.
The BBC (and now it seems CNN as well) were fed information that WTC7 had collapsed, 20 minutes before it actually did. They reported this news without verifying the truthfulness of the information, which is the only "sin" they can be accused of during that broadcast.
However, they now know the truth about 9/11, and their continued stonewalling of all facts about an inside job will buy them a charge of accomplice to murder, after the fact. There must be a huge amount of personal intimidation on them to force them to try to contain this story while it fairly explodes in the alternate media.
I haven't been called this many names since grade school. Apparently, contradicting the "information" presented by presenting logic, physics, and actual facts makes some people edgy.
Well, as banshee pointed out, the only certainty in this entire thing is that there will never be any certainty. While it's a shame that an otherwise lively discussion was marred by some low blows, apart from that, this has been very interesting over all.
If we stop questioning, we stop thinking. Good on those of you able to do so civilly.
Not that we need further proof that WTC7 was a controlled demolition.
But... we have further proof.
WTC7 was designed and built to be extremely resilient and with redundant counter support, so even whole floors could be removed, and the structure would stand with no problems. It actually wound up being a fortified building within a building, completely immune to a symmetrical collapse at free-fall speed.
Who is the source of this information, you ask? Why it's good old Larry "pull-it" Silverstein himself!
There are criminal elements with the government intent on carrying out PNAC's policy of rebuilding America's defenses and establishing it as the sole superpower .
We'll just sit back with no facts to back us up and say everyone (including the family members of the victims who say 9/11 was in inside job) tinfoil hat-wearing conspiracy theorists. We'll bash Loose Change because all they really did was ask questions (and are finishing The Final Cut to correct what was on the last one and give other info). Let's all just forget about the following.. First responder NYPD officer Craig Bartmer was told the building would be brought down http://video.google.ca/...
Larry Silverstein who took out a 99 year lease on the WTC complex admitted they pulled it. He later denied that "pull" meant demolish. http://www.youtube.com/...
Is Carpenter Marlene Cruz crazy for saying there was an explosion in WTC sub-basement level B? http://www.youtube.com/... A 9/11 toxic dust whistleblower, a ground zero hero and one of the individuals influential in the release of documents proving a government cover-up that deliberately put police, firemen and rescue personel at risk, has been raided by a New York SWAT team - who ransacked his home for three hours after he was arrested. http://prisonplanet.tv/... Hollywood director and former buddy of Nick Rockefeller is a kook to for saying Nick told him an event was going to take place causing the U.S. to attack Afghanistan and Iraq 11 months before 9/11? http://www.prisonplanet.com/...
What about the insider trading on those airlines? They reported on it and then dropped the storey. Did they catch anyone? What about the admitted drills of planes flying in to the WTC and Pentagon at the exact time it was really happening? Does the fact that terrorists were in U.S. Flight schools before 9/11 bother you? Why were U.S. troops conveniently positioned in Afghanistan before 9/11? Why was NY and Washington unprotected? The U.S. Patriot Act 1 and 2 totally shred the constitution. Since 9/11, cameras have gone up everywhere(including bathrooms in gradeschools), and every American is treated like a criminal? Laugh and snicker all you want. Go ahead and call people names because you won't check out any facts for yourself. http://www.prisonplanet.com/...
Au contraire - I said "let the parade of idiocy begin", not "the parade of idiots". I was referring to the 'information' not the people.
As for the legitimacy behind some of the websites thus far posted - no comment. It is pretty fortunate, though, that none of you amazing investigators haven't been silenced by the US government for cracking this big secret wide open. I wonder why that would be?
A RENDEZVOUS WITH DESTINY. There is a mysterious cycle in human events. To some generations much is given. Of other generations much is expected. This generation of Americans has a rendezvous with destiny. http://en.wikiquote.org/...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~:::::::::::::::::::::::::::: S O M E O F T H E A B O V E N E W S ====================:::::::::::::::::::::: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~:::::::::::: ===================================:::::::
Take a bite outa Fox
F O X A T T A C K S .C O M
Fox is not a credible news outlet and needs to be stopped. Foxattacks.com will give you the information and tools you need to hit fox where it hurts. The current video presents the erroneous and slanted stories Fox recently ran about Barack Obama. In response, Obama refused to appear on Fox. Watch the video, then follow Obama's lead and... Do Something. FOX ATTACKS: OBAMA http://www.foxattacks.com
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STOP THE ESCALATION IN IRAQ
Take Action: Contact Your Legislator Model Legislation Fact Sheet State-by-State Data National Press Advisory National Press Release Press Clips Model State Press Release Sign up for Updates on this Campaign: http://www.progressivestates.org/...
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Google Blogs Alert for: 9/11 inside job
SABOTAGE IN THE WHITE HOUSE. CONGRESS, CLEAN OUT THE COCKROACHES. By Bgilmore
These are the people who strong-armed Congress NOT to investigate 9/11, who used every ruse to stop an investigation and to avoid testifying before the 9/11 commission. Why? Because, they said.... http://www.democrats.com/...
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Searching for 9/11 answers - By Derek Gentile, Berkshire Eagle Staff Monday, February 19
Part of group believes government planned attacks
STOCKBRIDGE — As much as "mainstream America" might wish it, the local members of the 9/11 Truth Movement say their organization is not going away anytime soon. "(An alternate theory of the attacks on Sept. 11, 2001, is) a scary thing for people to contemplate," said Renzo Del Molino. "And I understand that. The realization that people in power are trying to hurt us, and not help us, is very frightening to them. It's frightening to me." View Full Story:
"The world situation is worsening to an alarming degree. People all over the world are being called on to help, and are making their individual contributions as part of an overall prearranged plan. Part of the plan is taking down "A Course in Miracles," and I am fulfilling my part in the agreement, as you will fulfill yours. You will be using abilities you developed long ago, and which you are not really ready to use again. Because of the acute emergency, however, the usual slow, evolutionary process is being by-passed in what might best be described as a 'celestial speed-up.'"
....That seemed so strange and bizarre to her that she was ready to throw her notebook in the trash basket, and yet it triggered something like a long ago memory in her in which she said, "Of course I'll go, Father: it's for such a little while."
Still, she was obviously not completely satisfied, for she tried one more time to abdicate her position. "Why me?" she asked. "I'm not religious: I don't understand these things: I don't even believe them. I'm about the poorest choice you could make."
The answer came back very clearly, "On the contrary; you are an excellent choice. In fact, the best."
"But why?" she anguished. And then, without a hint of doubt she heard the answer: "Because you'll do it."
Helen had no response to that. She knew the Voice was right: she knew she would do it. And from that moment on the future of "A Course in Miracles" was set. Helen would "scribe" it to its completion, even though she might raise loud objections all along the way.
(From JOURNEY WITHOUT DISTANCE The Story Behind A Course in Miracles, by Robert Skutch)
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S P E E D - B U M P S
BBC Hit Piece a Tissue of Lies, Bias and Emotional Manipulation - prisonplanet.com
Outraged truth community demands answers from Guy Smith, immediate retractions and apologies urged, savage agenda driven yellow journalism an insult to the truth
The BBC's Conspiracy Files documentary about 9/11 was a tissue of lies, bias and emotional manipulation from beginning to end. Producer Guy Smith should be ashamed of himself for inflicting this travesty of yellow journalism upon the 9/11 truth movement and he is assured to encounter a vociferous and outraged response in its aftermath.
Separated into two categories below are a number of questions intended to highlight Guy Smith's production for what it was - a deliberate hit piece on the 9/11 truth movemen
Between the brand-new users coming here to link to their sites and generate hit counts, and Myra's creative use of hyphens and dashes, I think we've got this subject well covered.
Seriously - it's good to see people questioning reality in their own way. That much is positive.
Your whole line of arguments.. What is this? Is it that 2+2 = 5 now ? Is good evil and evil good ? Is up down ? Does it help you to call people who think that 911 was an inside job (build on facts) for "911 conspiracy idiots" ? Your links are not valid.. If I got a friend and he kills somebody, then I don't link to HIS website for proof that he's not guilty.. Look at the world, look what is happening? Is it a better world after the launch of the "war on terror"? Is it safer? Did they lie to get the US into this war? Is the criminal elements within the us gov. not responsible for the killings of hundred of thousand people in Iraq?
I strongly suggest you tone down that hostility there.
"Your whole line of arguments.. What is this? Is it that 2+2 = 5 now ? Is good evil and evil good ? Is up down ? Does it help you to call people who think that 911 was an inside job (build on facts) for "911 conspiracy idiots" ?"
Interesting preamble.
"Your links are not valid.. If I got a friend and he kills somebody, then I don't link to HIS website for proof that he's not guilty.. "
You, my friend, have just made a logical fallacy called an 'a priori argument'. You start with the assumption ahead of time that Bush is responsible for the attacks, and then argue that linking to sites arguing his innocence for the attacks are 'not valid'.
Furthermore, my links are to someone who's found numerous holes in the movie Loose Change, a site explaining the physics involved in collapsing buildings, and another site debunking common myths about 911.
"Look at the world, look what is happening? Is it a better world after the launch of the "war on terror"? Is it safer? Did they lie to get the US into this war? Is the criminal elements within the us gov. not responsible for the killings of hundred of thousand people in Iraq?"
WTF? Do you read or skim?
I just said earlier that Bush HAS used the attacks to trample civil rights, to unjustly invade other countries, and to violate international law. I'm far from a supporter of Bush.
I'm beginning to regret ever saying this discussion is interesting and educational. For all the whining about name-calling, it seems like the bulk of the hostility is coming from one side of this issue in this thread.
The 911 Script and the Age of Terror Whitley Strieber
I must admit that I have been deeply shocked by a story that appeared today on my website, to the effect that the BBC reported the collapse of WTC Building 7 23 minutes before it actually took place. Previously, the BBC claimed that it had lost all of its 9/11 coverage, but this video has now surfaced. I watched it myself, and sat there with my blood literally running cold as I saw their reporter saying that Building 7 had collapsed while it was still visible behind her, perfectly intact.
Now, why wasn’t this just a simple mistake? For a simple reason: the collapse of Building 7 has been explained to us as a sort of freak accident that nobody expected.
It is, frankly, impossible that the BBC reporter’s statement was accidental. She is clearly seen reading from a teleprompter. she was reading a script, and that script had been put up on her teleprompter early.
Somebody wrote that script and distributed it to the media. I have long since abandoned the US media as a lost cause.
The American media is an anachronism, by ignoring the real news and running the silly stuff. Because of what appears to be an almost surrealistic belief that people cannot do bad things in concert, they missed Watergate. And they are missing 9/11 as well. They all are, and, in the end, they will be abandoned by the public because their silence and refusal to investigate are, in effect, lies spoken without words on behalf of what is coming to seem a devastating and widespread conspiracy against the lives of thousands of people, against western civilization and against human freedom at the deepest level.
And the scale of the thing is terrifying. If the BBC was reading a script, as it must have been, then they were all reading scripts, and not one reporter has come forward, not one editor, and there is not a breath of suggestion in the 9/11 Commission report that any such thing might have been happening. The Bush presidency is a burnt-out rump, it would seem, reduced to this odd recent practice of sending its officials into harm’s way in the apparent hope that any misfortune befalling them will gain it some sympathy, even as the president prepares for the future by buying a large estate in Paraguay. (However, he might have done a little more research about that country before he bought, given that the Colorado Party, which has been in power since it was set up by Nazi sympathizers and German immigrants in 1947, is now facing a serious threat from Msgr. Fernando Lugo Méndez, a populist bishop who is likely to win the next general election.)
And then there is the terrifying prospect that another 9/11 will take place, but this time one so terrible that we will all desperately cleave to authority in the hope of preserving our lives, no matter who we think might be responsible. Anything less than a nuclear attack on one or more American cities would drive Bush from office, because it would reveal his entire anti-terrorism apparatus for the gimcrack sham that it is.
So it’s perfectly possible that nuclear weapons are already in our cities, and have been there for years. As the Bush presidency winds down, the only real question is, will they be used to bring the American people to heel, or will he choose the Paraguay option?
I used to believe that the Administration let 9/11 happen so that it could have an excuse to attack Iraq and destroy our freedoms. Given this latest piece of news, I think that anybody who seriously thinks that the whole event wasn’t carefully planned and fed to us as a scripted “news event” needs to have their head examined. It was planned, period. Otherwise this reporter wouldn’t have been announcing one of the disasters before it happened. It’s inescapable.
Homeland Security ringleader Michael Chertoff has a cousin named Benjamin Chertoff. He was the senior researcher on the "debunking" piece. That's like Janet Reno getting her buddy Senator John Danforth to investigate her atrocities in Waco. Popular Mechanics hit piece has been debunked already. Here's an audio of that. http://prisonplanet.tv/...
Go here and watch a debate between the film makers of Loose Change and the editors of Debunking 9/11 Myths... I felt the editors did a terrible job and looked really bad...watch it and form your own opinion. http://www.democracynow.org/...
"You, my friend, have just made a logical fallacy called an 'a priori argument'. You start with the assumption ahead of time that Bush is responsible for the attacks, and then argue that linking to sites arguing his innocence for the attacks are 'not valid'."
This is projection on your part.. It is you and not me who say that they(the criminal elements within the gov+mill. complex) are not behind this and then you link to their websites. So it is you who use evidence from part A to prove that part A is not involved in some kind of criminal affair.. Not me..
Why don't you address the real issues here? That they have been caught planing and doing this kind of activity before and that it is overwhelming evidence that it has happened again.. What about building 7 ??? Its just happened to fall ?? What about Silverstein admitting to "pull" building 7?
The moment people started flooding this thread with copy/pasted 'information', new members appeared here linking to their sites, throwing around base insults and generally being hostile, all hope for a constructive discussion was lost.
If you're so convinced that such a thing happened, why are you wasting your energy running little websites, instead of actively trying to overthrow the Bush administration? Your accusing the heads of state of a very serious charge. If you believe this to be true, you have an obligation to take action. What are you wasting time for? What are you doing here? Do you really believe this, or are conspiracy theories just a hobby to you? I know if I believed my government was responsible for something like this, I'd do whatever it took to take action.
Something to consider: the 'information' you're posting, you claim is proof and/or evidence. Some of these sites and the people who run them have been around a long time. If this administration were capable of committing such a massive slaughter as 911 and be able to keep it a secret, surely they could assassinate any of these "investigators" and make it look like an accident. Yet that hasn't happened. All part of the campaign of deception, I'm sure. Pfft.
Just something to keep in mind. Enjoy your hit-count boosting, and your flooding.
Thats the illusion of 'democracy'. If dissenters started being bumped off then the population would wake up from its sleepwalk. Let them have their rants until their actions actually start having effects, then do something, but not before. Its not a complicated concept to understand, although the mechanics beneath it is undoubtedly so. As regards the '...If you're so convinced that such a thing happened, why are you wasting your energy running little websites...' comment - you are far too sure of yourself. Do you know what else these people are doing, other then the 15 minutes they may spend on SN? You will never know.......
Before the tinfoil hat brigade comes on here yelping....
Senator Max Cleland : Former member of the 9/11 Commission, resigned in December 2003 "I, as a member of the [9/11] Commission, cannot look any American in the eye... It is a national scandal... this White House wants to cover [9/11] up."
Before the tinfoil hat brigade comes on here yelping....
Congressman Ron Paul - Vice Chairman of the Oversight and Investigations subcommittee "the [9/11] investigations that have been done so far as more or less cover-up and no real explanation"
Before the tinfoil hat brigade comes on here yelping....
Congressman Curt Weldon - "[9/11 Commission] there's something very sinister going on here... something desperately wrong... This involved what is right now the covering up of information that led to the deaths of 3,000 people"
Before the tinfoil hat brigade comes on here yelping....
Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney - Member of the House Armed Services Committee "the [9/11] Commission ran up against obstruction by the administration and non-cooperation from government agencies... the errors and omissions immediately jumped out at us"
Before the tinfoil hat brigade comes on here yelping....
Director of the FBI, Louis Freeh – "[9/11 Commission] findings--raises serious challenges to the commission's credibility and, if the facts prove out, might just render the commission historically insignificant itself"
Before the tinfoil hat brigade comes on here yelping....
Assistant Secretary of the U.S. Treasury, Paul Craig Roberts, PhD - "Distinguished national and international scientists and scholars present massive evidence that the 9/11 Commission Report is a hoax and that the 9/11 "terrorist attack" has been manipulated to serve a hegemonic agenda in the Middle East... We know that it is strictly impossible for any building, much less steel columned buildings, to "pancake" at free fall speed. Therefore, it is a non-controversial fact that the official explanation of the collapse of the WTC buildings is false"
Before the tinfoil hat brigade comes on here yelping....
Assistant Secretary of Housing, Catherine Austin Fitts - "Regarding 9/11 "The official story could not possibly have happened... It's not possible. It's not operationally feasible... The Commission was a whitewash. "
Before the tinfoil hat brigade comes on here yelping....
U.S. Army Intelligence officer, Federal Prosecutor, Office of Special Investigations, U.S. Department of Justice, John Loftus ~ "The information provided by European intelligence services prior to 9/11 was so extensive that it is no longer possible for either the CIA or FBI to assert a defence of incompetence"
Before the tinfoil hat brigade comes on here yelping....
Foreign Service Officer, J. Michael Springman - "Fifteen of the nineteen people who allegedly flew airplanes into buildings in the United States got their visas from the same CIA Consulate at Jeddah"
Before the tinfoil hat brigade comes on here yelping....
Major General U.S. Army, Commanding General of U.S. Army Intelligence and Security Command, Albert Stubblebine ~ "I look at the hole in the Pentagon and I look at the size of an airplane that was supposed to have hit the Pentagon. And I said, ˜The plane does not fit in that hole. So what did hit the Pentagon?"
Before the tinfoil hat brigade comes on here yelping....
Col. Ronald D. Ray, U.S. Marine Corps, Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense, Deputy Director of Field Operations for the U.S. Marine Corps Historical Center - "I'm astounded that the conspiracy theory advanced by the administration could in fact be true and the evidence does not seem to suggest that's accurate"
Before the tinfoil hat brigade comes on here yelping....
Col. Robert Bowman, U.S. Air Force, Director of Advanced Space Programs, PhD Aeronautics and Nuclear Engineering - " the official 9/11 story is impossible .. There is a cover up .. high levels of our government don't want us to know what happened .. highly placed individuals in the administration .. Dick Cheney .. the very kindest thing we can say about George W Bush .. is high treason and conspiracy to commit murder "
Before the tinfoil hat brigade comes on here yelping....
Col. George Nelson, U.S. Air Force, aircraft accident investigator ~ "I never witnessed nor even heard of an aircraft loss, where the wreckage was accessible, that prevented investigators from finding enough hard evidence to positively identify the make, model, and specific registration number of the aircraft -- and in most cases the precise cause of the accident... The government alleges that four wide-body airliners crashed on the morning of September 11 2001, resulting in the deaths of more than 3,000 human beings, yet not one piece of hard aircraft evidence has been produced in an attempt to positively identify any of the four aircraft. On the contrary, it seems only that all potential evidence was deliberately kept hidden from view .. with all the evidence readily available at the pentagon crash site, any unbiased rational investigator could only conclude that a Boeing 757 did not fly into the Pentagon as alleged. Similarly, with all the evidence available at the Pennsylvania crash site, it was most doubtful that a passenger airliner caused the obvious hole in the ground and certainly not the Boeing 757 as alleged .. the most heinous conspiracy in our country's history "
Before the tinfoil hat brigade comes on here yelping....
Capt. Russ Wittenberg, U.S. Air Force, fighter pilot, commercial pilot flying 707, 720, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, and 777's. Had previously flown Flight 93, which impacted in Pennsylvania, and Flight 175, the second plane to hit the WTC ~"The government story they handed us about 9/11 is total B.S. plain and simple...[Regarding Flight 77]"The airplane could not have flown at those speeds which they said it did without going into what they call a high speed stall. The airplane won't go that fast if you start pulling those high G maneuvers at those bank angles... The vehicle that hit the Pentagon was not Flight 77"
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Lt. Col. Karen U. Kwiatkowski, PhD, U.S. Air Force, Office of the Secretary of Defense, staff of the Director of the National Security Agency ~ "It is as a scientist that I have the most trouble with the official government conspiracy theory, mainly because it does not satisfy the rules of probability or physics. The collapses of the World Trade Center buildings clearly violate the laws of probability and physics...There was a dearth of visible debris on the relatively unmarked Pentagon, where I stood only minutes after the impact. Beyond this strange absence of airliner debris, there was no sign of the kind of damage one would expect from the impact of a large airliner... this visible evidence or lack thereof may also have been apparent to the Sec of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, who in an unfortunate slip of the tongue referred to the aircraft that slammed into the Pentagon as a 'missile' ... I saw nothing of significance at the point of contact ~ no airplane metal or cargo debris was blowing on the lawn in front of the damaged building as smoke billowed from within the Pentagon .. all of us staring at the Pentagon that morning were indeed looking for such debris, but what we expected was not evident .. the same is true with regard to the damage we expected .. but I did not see this kind of damage. Rather, the facade had a rather small hole, no larger than 20 feet in diameter. Although this facade later collapsed, it remained standing for 30 0r 40 minutes, with the roof remaining relatively straight .. The scene, in short, was not what I would have expected from a strike by a large jetliner. It was, however, exactly what one would have expected if a missile had struck the Pentagon "
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Senior Military Affairs Journalist at the Naval Postgraduate School, Barbara Honegger, MS ~ "The US military, not al Qaeda, had the sustained access weeks before 9/11 to also plant controlled demolition charges throughout the superstructures of WTC 1 and WTC 2, and in WTC 7, which brought down all three buildings on 9/11...A US military plane, not one piloted by al Qaeda, performed the highly skilled, high speed 270 degree dive towards the Pentagon that Air Traffic Controllers on 9/11 were sure was a military plane as they watched it on their screens. Only a military aircraft, not a civilian plane flown by al Qaeda, would have given off the "Friendly" signal needed to disable the Pentagon's anti-aircraft missile batteries as it approached the building...Only the US military, not al Qaeda, had the ability to break all of its Standard Operating Procedures to paralyze its own emergency response system"
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Capt. Gregory M. Zeigler, PhD, U.S. Army, U.S. Army Intelligence Officer ~ "I knew from September 18, 2001, that the official story about 9/11 was false. ... [A]nomalies poured in rapidly: the hijackers' names appearing in none of the published flight passenger lists, BBC reports of stolen identities of the alleged hijackers or the alleged hijackers being found alive, the obvious demolitions of WTC 1 and 2...and WTC7...not hit by an airplane...the lack of identifiable Boeing 757 wreckage at the Pentagon"
On the morning of Tuesday, September 11th, 2001, nineteen Islamic fundamentalist terrorists took control of four commercial airliners in the northeastern United States.
Flying through the world’s most congested airways, three of the aircraft reached their targets and crashed into sites of extreme significance – potent symbols of America’s economic and military power. Over 3,000 people died at the Twin Towers of the World Trade Centre in New York; The Pentagon just outside Washington, DC; and at Shanksville, Pennsylvania where the fourth airliner crashed.
The subsequent, world-changing events that these atrocities unleashed have resulted in further deaths whose exact numbers will never be known. The eventual toll will certainly number in the hundreds of thousands. For every single combatant killed (American and British military personnel; Iraqi soldiers and Islamist insurgent; or Afghani Taliban fighter), perhaps as many as one hundred civilians have perished. Every one of them somebody’s son or daughter. Husband or wife. Brother or sister. Father. Mother.
Whether we in the developed world agree with it or not, this conflict is being waged on our behalf by our governments. A number of countries have committed troops. Others have supplied support services and materials. Still more act as cheerleaders, never entering the field of play but supporting, nevertheless, this ‘War On Terror’. And another group have been cowed into something between acquiescence and fearful silence – taking seriously George W. Bush when he declares “you’re either with us, or you’re against us”.
Dissenting nations are few. Yet there are many dissenting voices – even in America and Britain, those countries most involved in the continuing military action in Iraq and Afghanistan.
We now know that, as far as Iraq is concerned, we went to war on a lie.
This is not a debatable point. It is not a matter of opinion. We were lied to and despite subsequently being made aware of the lies both of our nation’s leaders were re-elected. We cannot, therefore, absolve ourselves of responsibility and blame our political leaders.
The only reason that coalition troops were sent to Iraq was to find and disable the Iraqi programmes to produce weapons of mass destruction. It was not about regime change. It was not about introducing democracy. It was sold to the public as a means of protecting our nations against possible use of these weapons against us.
Iraq did not possess weapons of mass destruction.
Our intelligence was not flawed, it was deceitful. UN weapons inspectors told us this was the case but were ignored. Some voices were raised in protest but they were silenced.
The only weapons of mass destruction inside Iraq belong to the US and the UK forces. After almost 4 years of occupation, coalition forces and weapons inspectors have found nothing of these fabled Iraqi programmes and they never will. Indeed, they are no longer even talked about or searched for.
Saddam Hussein was an evil dictator. No-one should lament his removal or his passing. He killed tens of thousands of his own people. He waged war against his neighbours.
In the war against Iran over one million people perished. A war, incidentally, in which Iraq was encouraged and supported by the Reagan Administration and its hawk-in-chief Donald Rumsfeld who visited Baghdad to assure Saddam of US support.
Of course, no-one supported his invasion of Kuwait which prompted the first Gulf War. We did, though, invent stories about Iraqi soldiers tearing Kuwaiti infants from incubators and carrying the medical equipment triumphantly back to Baghdad. Stories like this mobilised public opinion throughout the world and enabled our governments to commit troops to the liberation of Kuwait. Liberation, of course, only in the sense that we removed the Iraqis and handed control back to a small ruling elite of unelected emirs who have no intention of introducing Western democracy to their small, oil-rich nation. Luckily, though, they are a friendly, small, oil-rich nation so we didn’t feel the need to introduce democracy there.
So we are lied to. We know this. And we also know that when it suits our governments to do so, they ignore principles like democracy, freedom and human rights. There is a long list of repressive, brutal governments that have been supplied and supported by the US and the UK and a number of democratically-elected ones that we have destabilised or helped remove because they were not to our liking. Principles mean nothing in politics.
Forearmed with this knowledge then, are we not entitled to question any pronouncement from our governments? Even when it concerns an event as devastating and painful as 9/11?
Not only are we entitled, we are duty bound. It is our duty to hold our political leaders to account – it is the basis of the US Constitution and its unwritten equivalent in the UK. It is those who question and seek the truth who ar
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Capt. Eric H. May, U.S. Army, Intelligence officer ~ "I view the 911 event ...as a matter that implies either...A) passive participation by the Bush White House through a deliberate stand-down or B) active execution of a plot by rogue elements of government, starting with the White House itself, in creating a spectacle of destruction that would lead the United States into an invasion of the Middle East"
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Former Chairman, National Intelligence Estimates, CIA, responsible for preparing the President's Daily Brief, U.S. Army Intelligence Officer, Raymond L. McGovern ~ " I think at simplest terms, there's a cover-up. The 9/11 report is a joke...just as Hitler in 1933 cynically exploited the burning of the parliament building, the Reichstag, this is exactly what our President did in exploiting 9/11...making a war of aggression on a country that he knew had nothing to do with 9/11...that's certainly an impeachable offense...But compelling evidence for an even more disturbing conclusion: that the 9/11 attacks were themselves orchestrated by this administration precisely so they could be thus exploited."
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National Intelligence Officer and Director of the CIA's Office of Regional and Political Analysis, William Christison ~ "there is persuasive evidence that the events of September did not unfold as the Bush administration and the 9/11 Commission would have us believe. ¦ An airliner almost certainly did not hit The Pentagon. ¦ The North and South Towers of the World Trade Center almost certainly did not collapse and fall to earth because hijacked aircraft hit them...this all was totally an inside job ¦ I have since decided that....at least some elements in this US government had contributed in some way or other to causing 9/11 to happen or at least allowing it to happen... The reason that the two towers in New York actually collapsed and fell all the way to the ground was controlled explosions rather than just being hit by two airplanes. ¦ All of the characteristics of these demolitions show that they almost had to have been controlled explosions... I think you almost have to look at the 9/11 Commission Report as a joke and not a serious piece of analysis at all... It's a monstrous crime"
Not only are we entitled, we are duty bound. It is our duty to hold our political leaders to account – it is the basis of the US Constitution and its unwritten equivalent in the UK. It is those who question and seek the truth who are the patriots. Those who accept what they are told as our leaders ride roughshod over our rights and our constitutions are failing not only themselves, but their nations and history.
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U.S. Marine Corps intelligence officer, case officer CIA. Robert David Steele ~ "I am forced to conclude that there is sufficient evidence to indict (not necessarily convict) Dick Cheney, Karl Rove and others...This is, without question, the most important modern reference on state-sponsored terrorism, and also the reference that most pointedly suggests that select rogue elements within the US Government, most likely led by Dick Cheney with the assistance of George Tenet, Buzzy Kronguard, and others close to the Wall Street gangs, are the most guilty of state-sponsored terrorism...I'm absolutely certain that WTC 7 was brought down by controlled demolition and that as far as I'm concerned means that this case has not been properly investigated. There's no way that building could have come down without controlled demolition"
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CIA Case Officer, Specialist in the Middle East, Directorate of Operations, Awarded Career Intelligence Medal, Robert Baer ~ " Regarding the opinion there was an aspect of 'inside job' to 9/11 within the U.S. government, "There is that possibility, the evidence points at it."
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Counter-terrorism expert in the Security Division of the federal Aviation Administration. Team leader of the FAA's Red ( Terrorism ) Team in the Federal Air Marshall program, Coast Guard officer, Bogdan Dzakovic ~ "At worst, I think the 9/11 Commission Report is treasonous."
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Minister of Justice, West Germany, Horst Ehmke, PhD - "Terrorists could not have carried out such an operation with four hijacked planes without the support of a secret service."
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State Secretary, Federal Ministry of Defense, West Germany, Andreas von Buelow, PhD - "The official story is so inadequate and far-fetched that there must be another one...This is unthinkable, without years-long support from secret apparatuses of the state and industry."
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General Leonid Ivashov, Chief of Staff, Russian armed forces, Ministry of Defense ~ "Only secret services and their current chiefs or those retired but still having influence inside the state organizations have the ability to plan, organize and conduct an operation [9/11] of such magnitude...Osama bin Laden and "Al Qaeda" cannot be the organizers nor the performers of the September 11 attacks. They do not have the necessary organization, resources or leaders."
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Foreign Minister of Egypt, Mohamed Hassanein Heikal ~ "Bin Laden does not have the capabilities for an operation [9/11] of this magnitude. When I hear Bush talking about al-Qaida as if it was Nazi Germany or the communist party of the Soviet Union, I laugh because I know what is there. Bin Laden has been under surveillance for years: every telephone call was monitored and al-Qaida has been penetrated by American intelligence, Pakistani intelligence, Saudi intelligence, Egyptian intelligence. They could not have kept secret an operation that required such a degree of organisation and sophistication."
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Chief of Staff, Pakistani Army, General Mirza Aslam Beg ~ "The information which is now coming up, goes to prove that involvement by the rogue elements of the U.S. military and intelligence organization is getting more obvious. Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda definitely do not have the knowhow and the capability to launch such operations involving such high precision coordination, based on information and expertise."
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French Army Intelligence and artillery officer, Col. Pierre-Henri Bunel, Expert in the effects of artillery weapons and explosives ~ Regarding Department of Defense photos of the Pentagon on 9/11 "Image of the impact on the Pentagon is very instructive as to the nature of the explosion. ... It corresponds to a detonation of an explosive with high energetic power. The explosion does not correspond to a deflagration of kerosene...suggests a single engine flying vehicle much smaller in size than an airliner...resembles the effects of anti-concrete hollow charges that I have been able to observe on a number of battlefields...lead me therefore to think that the detonation that struck the building was that of a high-powered hollow charge used to destroy hardened buildings and carried by an aerial vehicle, a missile."
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Safety Engineer and accident Analyst, National Safety Technology Authority, Finland, Heikki Kurttila, PhD ~ "Conclusion: The observed collapse time of WTC 7 was 6.5 seconds. That is only half a second longer than it would have taken for the top of the building to fall to the ground in a vacuum, and half a second shorter than the falling time of an apple when air resistance is taken into account. ... The great speed of the collapse and the low value of the resistance factor strongly suggest controlled demolition."
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Counter-Terrorism Officer, MI5 (Britain), David Shayler regarding 9-11 "The available evidence indicates that people in key positions in the FBI, the State Department, the CIA and so on were not loyal to the Constitution; that they saw an opportunity in plans laid down by genuine Islamic terrorists to carry out an operation that would shock the world and would therefore justify U.S. adventurism in the middle East, particularly in Afghanistan and Iraq."
Eventually the penny will drop with these people. The internet age and access to information means that the architects of this incident are playing with fire and they will be burned. The truth will emerge. Just keep pushing.
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Chairman, 9/11 Commission, Thomas H. Kean, Former Governor of New Jersey - "FAA and NORAD officials advanced an account of 9/11 that was untrue...We, to this day, don't know why NORAD told us what they told us...It was just so far from the truth."
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Vice Chairman, 9/11 Commission, Lee Hamilton, Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, Homeland Security Advisory Council ~ "we got started late; we had a very short time frame...we did not have enough money...We had a lot of people strongly opposed to what we did. We had a lot of trouble getting access to documents and to people. ... So there were all kinds of reasons we thought we were set up to fail"
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9/11 Commissioner, Timothy J. Roemer, PhD, Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence - "that panel members so distrusted testimony from Pentagon officials that they referred their concerns to the Pentagon's inspector general...We were extremely frustrated with the false statements we were getting"
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Senior Counsel, 9/11 Commission, John J. Farmer, Jr., Former Attorney General, NJ, Former Commissioner of the State Commission of Investigations ~ Some staff members and commissioners of the Sept. 11 panel concluded that the Pentagon's initial story of how it reacted to the 2001 terrorist attacks may have been part of a deliberate effort to mislead the commission and the public "I was shocked at how different the truth was from the way it was described...The tapes told a radically different story from what had been told to us and the public for two years"
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So what does that make you? Propaganda Lapdog? Naah, seriously, irrespective of which side of the fence you sit on - I've not seen many people actually debating it.
"Waiter, another serving of Rhetoric for our guests."
"- I've not seen many people actually debating it."
Maybe you need to get out more. Try wearing a "9/11 was an inside job" button or t-shirt, and you will meet all sorts of nice folks that actually have a clue.
The official government story is the true conspiracy theory.
You were all warned about flaming and other personal insults. It's a shame that something that should be debated logically -- even if it does deal with a so-called "conspiracy theory" -- degraded into petty insults.
Further similar behaviour in other threads will see your account blocked from the platform. The world's divided enough as it is.
