Vegan Couple Convicted of Starving Their Child to Death
A Georgia jury found Jade Sanders and Lamont Thomas guilty of child cruelty and murder after their six-week-old son Crown died from starvation. The vegan couple only fed him apple juice and soy milk. They now face a mandatory life sentence.
While prosecutors contend it was intentional, the defense and relatives say it was simply what the parents thought was a reasonable alternative to milk, and were trying their best.
"We're against animal cruelty. So why would I be cruel to my son? We're against animals being burdened. Why would [I] be cruel and burden him and try to drive around and do something with his body? We're going to jail for no reason," said Thomas.
the female human body was disigned to feed an infant child, and a infant child is designed to have breast milk. They can do ok with formula also. But soy milk? Doing no research and claiming you thought it was an ok alternative is negligence, so either way its negligent homicide or child abuse.
It sounds to be that she's percieving it as an injustice directly to her self. As in her ego is so big she hasn't quite realized that she's going to jail for killing her own kid. She talks about it like it was an expensive parking ticket she didn't pay.
I personally feel they should be convicted. Apple juice and soy milk? Those don't contain the necessary nutrients a newborn requires to be healthy.
Not to mention that fact that Vegan is a horrendous eating lifestyle. You have to supplement your food with vitamins just to make up for the fact that you aren't digesting it naturally, and all the vitamin pills in the world will not equal the real thing.
Ron White said it best... "Your system is kicking back beef broth?"
WRONG - veganism does not require any vitamins and has shown to be by far the most healthy and ethical way to eat.
Please do a tiny little bit of research?
The human digestive system is much more suited to digest vegetable matter than meat or diary.
@captainJane
When I ate meat around 3 years ago I was 23 stone. It is a little like vegetarianism you could eat healthily or you could eat junk food :) - Im eating very healthily these days though!
When I gave up dairy my asthma disappeared within one month and I feel like I have tons more energy and would recommend it to everyone!
These people are pitiful, I can't believe that they would do this, I don't care if they think that it's unenthical think about it. Mkay, she says that breastmilk is wrong to your children because you wouldn't give them real milk, which is just stupid because they have nothing about the animals drinking the milk from their parents.. ugh. They deserve to die. I dedicate the Bloodhound Gangs 'I hope you die' to them. Really. Just like that too.
@obesevegan I am not by any means a vegan, but i do agree that dairy is not the best for your digestive system. most adults (i think it was around 75%) are lactose intolerant. I dont care though, as an italian, i love my ricotta cheese, and i still put creamer in my coffee and eat nonfat yogurt every day (its supposed to be good for female reproductive systems or something. thats not why i eat it though) and i cannot stay away from ice cream (my weakness... damn you ben and jerrys!) and as a philly girl i love my cheese steaks...
@topic if she wasnt breastfeeding she should have been using formula. I'm pretty sure that formula doesnt contain dairy... i could be wrong though. either way i am disturbed that the couple seemed to not care that their infant died... im sure they would get a more lenient sentencing if they even PRETENDED that that were devestated over their loss, and admitted that it was a mistake.
@obesevegan I am not by any means a vegan, but i do agree that dairy is not the best for your digestive system. most adults (i think it was around 75%) are lactose intolerant. I dont care though, as an italian, i love my ricotta cheese, and i still put creamer in my coffee and eat nonfat yogurt every day (its supposed to be good for female reproductive systems or something. thats not why i eat it though) and i cannot stay away from ice cream (my weakness... damn you ben and jerrys!) and as a philly girl i love my cheese steaks...
@topic if she wasnt breastfeeding she should have been using formula. I'm pretty sure that formula doesnt contain dairy... i could be wrong though. either way i am disturbed that the couple seemed to not care that their infant died... im sure they would get a more lenient sentencing if they even PRETENDED that that were devestated over their loss, and admitted that it was a mistake.
I obviously don’t feel that killing mice to grow vegetables is OK, but I also dont feel that killing billions of animals to support our wants is ok either. It is however the "MOST" ethical diet there is.
I was expecting a comment along those lines from you - shame it wasn’t exactly your own argument.
I however grow my own veg as to minimise the commercial crops (plus mine taste a load better)
You cannot compare the damage that the livestock industry does in comparison to mice being killed by harvesters.
You should remember that 99% of Soya is grown to feed YOUR meat diet not my vegan diet.
Not to mention the fact that livestock production is more environmentally damaging than all motor vehicles in the world.
Also the fields of Soya fenced off from starving populations ready for export to feed YOUR meat / dairy habit.
Maybe you have allready realised most of these issues and you are feeling like you need to go on the defensive? Or maybe you just dont give a shit?
Either way the comparrison is the weakest I have ever heard, Maddox is funny sometimes but he is a little like you, - tiring.
It is awful, where this stupid woman got the idea that your own breastmilk wasnt vegan is insane?! Oh NO I dont want to exploit myself! Why have a kid then!?
Read her quote: "We're against animal cruelty. So why would I be cruel to my son?"
Now take off your anti-"hippy" blinders and read it again: "We're against animal cruelty. So why would I be cruel to my son?"
Or, to make it perhaps more clear: "I've dedicated myself to a cruelty-free lifestyle, so how could you honestly believe I was trying to be cruel to my own child when I did this?"
Her argument is that she didn't *knowingly* subject her son to cruelty. She wasn't trying to be cruel when she fed him soy milk -- she was trying to be vegan and it backfired tragically.
Good for you, you are so ethical - Someone told me that those animals are quite suicidal and actually long to be slaughtered.
As for the mice issue, as I said I personally grow my own veg so dont contribute to this so much - but like I said 99% of soya is grown to feed your "meat".
Veganism is doing the least harm you can, and by all account its makes a HUGE difference.
Im not sure why I am attempting to respond to your stupid racist ignorance but here goes.
"we have sharp incisors designed to cut through meat AND molars designed for crushing"
From Viva (Because I couldnt be arsed to type it all myself) "No, they aren’t. We can digest meat, but our digestive systems are different to carnivorous animals: our guts are longer (so we can digest lots of plant materials) and our teeth are not designed to slice and tear flesh. Our teeth and mouths are the wrong shape to be able to kill and hold captive struggling prey (compare our jaw shape and teeth to a lion – or your pet cat or dog!). That’s why humans cook meat before eating it and why we’re no good at crunching and munching uncooked bones. As for our sharp teeth, gorillas are entirely vegetarian – as are almost all primates – and yet have far longer and sharper canine teeth than human beings. The diet of the ancestors of human beings was vegan until they began hunting about one-and-a-half million years ago but even then meat formed just a tiny part of their diet. That’s why people live long, healthy lives on vegetarian and vegan diets but would quickly die if they ate nothing but meat."
I am an abolitionist, not an animal welfarist. I do not agree with animal exploitation - I dont think the meat / dairy / animal industry needs regulation it needs abolishing.
Saying that not all animals will die out but the obvious breeding will stop and the numbers will reduce and evidence has shown that some animals could adapt to a wild lifestyle and become wildlife rather than livestock...
Take it light on the soy products buddy. A chemical in soy is known to bind to estrogen receptors inside your body thus making it very difficult to get rid of body fat. Also meat is digested by the intestines quite easily when cooked properly. A pure vegan diet is known to cause bowel inflammation. It is hard for humans to digest raw vegetables. Our bodies have specifically adapted to cooking our food. This is specifically the reason we do not have an appendix.
Soy is a good source of protein but a bad source of healthy nutrition when you consider the hormone emulation.
I dont have much Soy, I try to vary my protein sources as not to develop alergies. I am surprised you just said meat is fine with digestion when cooked properly and veg causes stomach iritation - a guy I used to know developed crones disease which his doctor put down to eating animal proteins. Bowel cancer has been linked to meat consumption but I havent heard of any people who suffer with stomach problems on a vegan diet - I do however fart a LOT. I would choose the estrogen in soy milk any day over the estrogen from dairy products I was put off milk when I was told how much puss content milk has (Mmm creamy) I also didnt trust the anti-biotics in non organic milk... :\
Being a farmer and solid meatavore I have noticed that all the vegans I know are gaunt, skinny, pale, and all look near death. I just want to throw a steak on the grill for them and bring them back to life. Have you lost any weight on a vegan diet? And could you convert stones to pounds for me, I’m culturally retarded? Do you feel like you have more energy, less pain, any major differences? I am curious. I have never tried a vegan diet as I would probably starve to death.
if the digestive tract is so well suited to a vegan only diet why is it that certain amino acids found in meats are referred to as essential?
From an evolutionary stand point our ancestors were HUNTER/gatherers. You can't live on meat alone (sorry texas) and you can't live on vegetables alone. Although in this day this has changed because so many foods are fortified now that a person could live on vegetables and no meat. Back in the dark ages though meat was necessary.
The father seems so distraught over killing his child, going to jail for no reason my ass. They could have at least researched or consulted medical advice rather than assuming apple juice and soy milk would suffice.
This is obviously a case of the parents being under educated about how to care for a child. Even if the mother didn't want to breastfeed, there are soy based formulas available. Here in Canada we have programs to educate people how to care for their new babes, and a nurse visits at your house when you get home...its all free btw. Not sure if the US has anything like this, but maybe they should.
Should read "Parents convicted of stupidity in the second degree".
This is quickly degenerating into "Vegan/Vegetarianism v Meat", so I may as well state my view. I have no problem with anyone being a vegan, as long as you do force your lifestyle on others. I know a vegan and many vegetarians, they're all cool, mainly because they keep their belief with them, and don't object to when I start eating a nice turkey sandwich. :)
I do agree with OV for the most part... i know it's more difficult to process *cooked* meat than *cooked* vegetables... i really don't eat that much meat anymore... if i do it's poultry and fish for the most part... i really don't like eating red meat anymore, it makes my tummy upset now...
as for being a vegan... for those who disagree with it... have you tried to look around for vegan products? you should... there are TONS of them out there... tasty meat-like products and plenty of other items out there... one can easily survive these days as a vegan, you just have to look for the right stuff... Whole Foods is my bestest friend when it comes to looking for meat free/animal free products... just last night i ate too much of a chocolate cake that was totally vegan... and i KNOW it wasn't the most healthy thing i could have eaten, but it was too good to put down... and i also know that eating things like that will really make me huge if i kept that up...
AND as for this lady, she didn't deserve this child if she's going to be living an ignorant lifestyle like she was... i know that's a horrible thing to say, but she, as a mother, should have read up on raising a child as a vegan before she had one...
"And from her comments it sounds to be that she's percieving it as an injustice directly to her self."
That might be because they're the kind of people who define themselves by taking up positions, which are then taken to the extreme. The end result shows that they cared more about her little cause than the welfare of her child. This is like the morons who try to convert their damn pets to veganism.
This isn't really about veganism, though, because that's just one belief system which has adherents obsessed with its tenets to the point of dangerous irrationality. It's been argued that they were trying their best raise a child while sticking to a vegan lifestyle. Well, maybe they should have gotten their priorities straight and tried doing their best to stay vegan while raising a child!
Then again, maybe they did intentionally starve him. One would have to be pretty foolish to never consult anyone about such a course of action, and damn near delusional not to seek help as they watched the child wither to the point at which bones could be seen through the skin.
I suppose that was a comment about sunshine and kittens the admin deleted above? Advocating race-based murder DOES make you a racist of the most vile sort.
That argument is completely null because only a TINY amount of research has been done on the vegan diet whereas people have been studying the effects of cook meat for centuries.
Not only that but the reason we evolved the way we did is because our progenitors had a large amount of meat in their diets. Hell there are African tribes were the women get 70% of the food by foraging while they raise babies and the men hunt for the other 30%. That is how essential meat is. Back to the evolutionary comment, it has been theorized based on fossilized remains that the hominids differentiated at a point in history at which one group developed large brains and the others remained small. One group ate tubers and the other group ate meat... guess which ones we came from?
Now truly if a person wishes to be extremely 'healthy' I suggest large amounts of green leafy vegetables, a carbohydrate rich source (rice, oats, whole grains), fruits, nuts, and meat. Also at least 2 servings of fish or shellfish a week.
Also they have regulations on the amount of estrogen that can be in milk. I'm not saying there isn't any because it is coming from a female (or that it doesnt happen) but they are only to give hormone injections a defined number of weeks prior to milking or butcher. Personally I am not concerned about it. Most of the problem from drinking milk, like you said, is peoples intolerance.
The fact that you fart so much indicates you are consuming a large amount of carbohydrates that your intestines can not handle. Personally I adapt my diet to my caloric intake at any given day. Try eating less or cut some of those complex carbohydrates out because the bacteria in your intestines are having a hay day with it and if you feel like you are going to starve at least go buy some acidophilus pills and try to get your flora up to par.
my lil sister wanted to be a vegatarian. She only ate carbs and salad. so... i made myself a nice helping of roasted chicken and offered her a piece... she LICKED the piece of chicken because she felt that as long as she didnt INGEST the chicken, its morally acceptable.
"As for our sharp teeth, gorillas are entirely vegetarian – as are almost all primates"
That's the most ludicrous statement I've ever read. Primates are almost entirely omnivorous, including the gorilla family. They will eat meat when they get the chance, often in the form of other primates they have managed to kill.
As for your comments on modern-man's anatomy, I'd suggest you take a couple of courses on comparative anatomy and not rely on what you read on vegitarian websites.
Why is it vegans think killing animals for us to eat is so horrible yet what is the difference of a lion killing gazelle in the wild? I mean after all, we are only animals. Do you think that lion should give up it's gazelle grazing days and move onto something a little more greener and ethical? Another thing, if you don't want to eat meat why make food that resembles meat products? Such as veggie burgers and soy-dogs? I'm getting a little off-topic but regarding the story it seems the parents are trying to play the victims here when they were obviously at fault for killing their child. They may be vegans in their life-style but their attempt to "force" their newborn son into the lifestyle caused his untimely death and for that I think they deserve what they have coming to them. Vegans are suppose to be all about eating all-natural foods, so why wouldn't they think that the breast milk of a woman who eats all-natural foods wouldn't be the best choice for their baby?
"Being a farmer and solid meatavore I have noticed that all the vegans I know are gaunt, skinny, pale, and all look near death."
skinny is a product of not getting enough proteins and fats in vegetarians and vegan.
and pale... well this more depends on exposure to light... however certian foods and even medicines will make you more photosensitive, i can only assume the opposite can also occur, meaning that certian foods/drugs could make you less photosensitive.
"I just want to throw a steak on the grill for them and bring them back to life. Have you lost any weight on a vegan diet? And could you convert stones to pounds for me, I’m culturally retarded? Do you feel like you have more energy, less pain, any major differences? I am curious. I have never tried a vegan diet as I would probably starve to death."
likewise... personally i don't get vegetarian/veganism... just appears deathly unnatural... as a species we evolved eatting meat, much, much more heavily then currently as much as 20lbs of meat per meal; however a meal might only be come by once a week, as you would have had to hunt and kill it first.
denis leary "not eatting meat is a choice, eatting meat is an INSTINCT)
"Vegans are suppose to be all about eating all-natural foods, so why wouldn't they think that the breast milk of a woman who eats all-natural foods wouldn't be the best choice for their baby?"
last i checked breastmilk is dairy... and dairy is banned.
The appendix in other vertebrates is used to digest hard to digest material. In such animals it is known as the cecum. The food, probably cellulose, actually ferments inside that pouch until a point that it is expelled via hiccups.
Don't confuse the fact that the human appendix's function is unknown and the fact that we know where it came from. Those two statements can easily coexist. It just means that we don't know what role the vestigial organ currently has.
I'm not sure why you guys bother... okay generally vestigial organs take on secondary roles. The limbic system used to be our primary brain as our evolutionary time as a reptile... it now serves some of the same functions but is controlled by neocortical structure and thus can be defined as a vestigial organ. Definitely not useless just has an altered role. Did I spell that our for ya good enough?
actually the limbic system is PART of an organ... not an organ in and of itself and is therefor not a vestigal organ. one of the limbic systems primary fuctions are associated with emotions (such as fear and pleasure), reflexs and memory... and i'm rather sure that its part of the mammalian brain rather than the reptilian part of the brain as its found in the brain of all mammals.
Duhh the limbic system is part of an organ, just as the appendix is part of digestive system.
The limbic system is also known as the primordial brain because when you remove all the neocortex that is what you have left. A responsive organ that compiles visual, auditory, and tactile senses into innate movements and responses.
Okay reading your post a second time... you didn't comprehend anything I said did you? Vestigial organs take on secondary roles and of course the more you integrate them into our physiology the more essential that secondary role becomes. Its not a difficult concept to understand. Just like our arms are vestigial flippers. Its a matter of perception and how far you are willing to comprehend evolutionary biology.
EXCEPT the 2 minute vegatarians. You know, the people who HAVE to remind you every 2 minutes that they're a vegatarian, they don't eat meat, they only eat vegatables, they don't believe in killing animals, meat is murder, blah blah blah, blah . . . . .
Thats weird, I thought all farmers were illerate, had sex with relatives and talk with a piece of straw in their mouths. - Stereotypes arent that cool.
@Ryanb
Omega Oils are essential whether from cold pressed non animal oils or not. Hemp, Olive, Flax etc are all vegan and contain all essential fatty acids.
@Kuhl
If you have enough money you could get many scientists to prove the sun doesnt exist. Meat / dairy lobbying groups have a HUGE amount of money.
@havoc666
Dairy is not the same as human breast milk. Thats like saying I cannot masturbate as a vegan because I might be exploiting myself for animal byproducts.
I said the reason that there are very little evidence to how unhealthy vegan lifestyles is is because there are not many who eat that way. So doctors and scientists do not have many to study.
That has absolutely nothing to do with lobbyist you 'tard.
I would challenge that bold statement. The healthiest diet is not a well-balanced vegan diet, it's a well-balanced diet period.
A healthy diet that includes meat and animal products is not what the majority of people eat, however. Our bodies are designed to include meat in our diets, but they are not designed to eat the amount of meat most of us get in this modern era where you can, and many do, eat meat at every meal every day.
Yes, the over-consumption of meat can lead to some nasty diseases, some directly like nitrogen poisoning, others one-off, like cancer from the free-radicals generated after eating charred meats. Of course charred veggies would have the same effect in this department so that's something of a wash.
Likewise, all-veggie diets can lead to diseases as well. Most deal with vitamin deficiencies, and in the case of this story starvation, but just like with meat nitrogen poisoning, the over-consumption of the same vegetable matter can poison you as well with toxic levels of specific minerals, vitamins, or amino acids.
You just criticized studies that found benefits of eating meat as being biased and unscientific, then you mentioned other studies that found benefits to a vegan lifestyle. Are you looking at the entire spectrum of studies, or just picking the ones that agree with your beliefs?
Just because you can eat healthily on a vegan diet, doesn't mean that's the best diet to have.
Obesevegan: You still haven't addressed the fact that we have been this successful evolutionarily because we started eating meat. Surely, then, our bodies work the best when we consume (even small amounts of) meat?
"Biology. Occurring or persisting as a rudimentary or degenerate structure."
I agree.
Occurring as a degenerate structure would mean that it not longer serves its primary function. Thus it has less than its primordial function. An arm that is no longer a flipper will not work as well in water because it has assumed a secondary function (obviously a matter of perception as I said), or the limbic system that used to serve as the main part of the central nervous system is degenerate or rudimentary to its previous dominate function.
Then again we were talking an appendix here which is a vestigial structure of the mammalian cecum while other the other examples were meant to show a point while obviously stretching the definition (I've already said this).
"Yes it does, who do you think funds these experiments? Lobby groups do - then they can do retarded Eat more meat and defeat cancer style adverts..."
No, it's not just industry studies. How do you explain the medical and academic institutions who study these things and reach conclusions contrary to your claims?
"As for the vegan diet, experiments have been done and a healthy vegan diet is recommended by any nutritionist worth their salt."
As GuyFawkes said above, no, they don't. Perhaps you pay attention to the ones who say this, but that does not mean they all do. If studies had shown this the medical establishment would adopt this position, but what is recommended today is a balanced diet.
Was it neglegent? Yeah. Was it murder, no, was it manslaughter, possibly. But all this "KILL THEM" stuff is a bit strange coming from this crowd. The fact is, stupidity or ignorance is not an excuse in the eyes of the law. It is however, an excuse in the eyes of the people. Definately irresponsible, definately stupid, but if we ended every stupid irresponsible person in America, we'd be left with only responsible intellegent people... uhhhh..... Heaven forbid.
Well, the vegan ideal of not burdening an animal certainly is a great excuse not to breast feed your 6-wk-old child. Hey, a baby can be a burden during those first few sleepless months. Wanna rid yourself of this burden? Just don't feed it and justify yourself with some cosmic debris derived from veganism. Sheesh!
what they did was wrong, but not everybody thinks the same. More education should be provided to new parents, not everybody has parents to help them with their kids or friends to trust (as we can see from this thread, people like their meat and make fun of anyone who doesn't). What happned washorrible, but it is history now. Can we stop saying the parents did it with cold blood, try to understand that not everybody has the same level of thinking and morals and be more tolerant. I am not saying what they did was right, i am simply saying they might have done it out of ignorance, and instead of bitching, people should do more to educate and help instead of standing back, pointing fingers and mocking.
I cannot believe this is turned into a pro vs anti vegan discussion! Fact: The couple watched their baby wither away to 1.4kg over a 6 week period and DID NOTHING!! They deserve the death penalty or confinment in a psychaitric facility for that. New borns are on average 3.kg. To watch your baby drop to what must be less than half his body weight over a 6 week period and do nothing is crazy!! I'm a parent and I freak out if I feel my baby isn't growing at a certain pace, much less losing weight. At 6 weeks a baby is still visiting the Dr for post natal care - where were the Drs?? Where was the midwife? Where was their family? Family and friends are all over you when you've just had a baby. Why did no one notice something. Also the baby must have been extremely hungry and hungry babies cry- hard for a mum to ignore. Why is no one asking these questions and so hung up on the parents diet
The appendix may be part of the digestive system due to its geographical location in the body but it's not an organ.
An organ is a group of tissues with a specialized function. The function of the appendix remains unknown. Speculation puts the appendix in the area of digesting vegetable material because it's very large in mammals that eat no meat.
I've been following the case of Jade Sanders and Lamont Thomas and the death of their son Crown.
Life in prison.
It's ironic that there is another case that was finalized today in New Jersey USA. Again two parents were found guilty in the death of their adopted son by means of cruel corporal punishment. It seems that the boy was punished by being locked in a cold cellar. We know it was cold because the autopsy concluded death by hypothermia. There was evidence and testimony from the dead boy's twin that other forms of corporal punishment were also administered.
Their sentence, via plea-bargain; 4 years.
I guess the ironic part was that the New Jersey defendents were white, while the Georgia defendents were black.
I suppose one could argue that in Georgia the sentence was manditory so no plea bargins could be negotiated. But after a while it becomes more difficult to turn a blind eye to the reality of who goes to jail more often than who does not.
About this "burdening animals" the bible says (even if you're not into it as a religious document) that we have dominion over animals.
This doesn't mean we can kill them. It's pretty hard to have dominion over something that's dead. It means that we can utilize the animals in our daily life. People work, animals can work too.
A vegitarian diet is probably the best for human health. To reject milk, eggs and other nutritious foods outright, just doesn't seem right.
With respect to the topic at hand, I just can't find it in my heart to believe that these people deliberately starved their child.
To the poster who said "where were the Drs?? Where was the midwife? Where was their family?" I can only be thankful for you in that you probably had all of this support. Some people are not as lucky.
Of course this is no excuse for what happened but a life sentence seems very extreme. The jury was there, I wasn't so it gets filed under "justice was done". In the greater case, mandatory sentences usurp the discretion of the judge in matters where temperence could be applied.
Fair enough,the couple might have strangely not had any family, friends or access to a Doctor (Maybe thats what happens in America)....but how does one excuse the fact that they would have witnessed their baby becoming more and more emaciated, screaming with hunger for a while ( A baby crying with hunger for 10 minutes is impossible to ignore!),and done nothing. That is unforgivable and astonishing cruelty! And they seem more hung up on legal semantics than on the terrible thing that has happened. Most parents would be suicidal! Their baby is dead for chrissake!! And they're responsible!
