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06/27/2007 11:19 AM ID: 63270 Permalink   

Tom Cruise Banned from Military Sites -- He's a Scientologist


Tom Cruise's Scientology religion has created a serious disadvantage to his current film project. The German government will not allow filming to take place on military sites because Cruise is a Scientologist.

The current project is a film about a 1944 plot to assassinate Adolf Hitler. Germany refuses to recognise Scientology as a religion, and accuses it of pretending to be one to raise money. The German government is yet to receive filming requests.

However, Harald Krammerbauer, from the Defence Ministry said filmmakers "will not be allowed to film at German military sites if Count Stauffenberg is played by Tom Cruise, who has publicly professed to being a member of the Scientology cult."

    WebReporter: NuttyPrat Show Calling Card      
ASSESS this news: BLOCK this news. Reason:
  Good decision.  
Hope other countries will follow.
  by: landers     06/27/2007 12:05 PM     
  I don't understand germanys position  
Scientology is a religion, it makes outrageous claims about reality, professes belief in supernatural elements, it makes claims which can't ever be falsified, it attempts to control the lives of its members and encourages those members to activly promote itself while demanding a regular level of income, I fail to see how much more religious it could posibly be?

  by: sparky_fox   06/27/2007 01:20 PM     
Calling it a religion is going a little far.
  by: ZCT     06/27/2007 01:21 PM     
since when is a religion or a cult treated like that in the EU?
I am not into scientology myself nor a tom cruise fan, but he has the right to choose his religion/ cult and should not be treated like that. What happened to germany?
  by: DarkAngelJG     06/27/2007 01:22 PM     
The problem with cults is they sucker people in, destroy families, and end up bleeding victims of their money.

In a typical religion people join, are free to leave, and only donate money out of feelings of guilt when the collection bowl goes around. But a cult is more likely to pressure people into doing a lot more. Scientology specifically has been accused of using various cultish techniques to isolate members from their families and extract money from them.

I think Germany has a point. A commercial organization using various techniques to indoctrinate people into a cult seems like a dangerous idea.

American history has quite a number of examples of what happens when cults are left to function without checks or balances.
  by: ZCT     06/27/2007 01:33 PM     
  @ ZCT  
"....The problem with cults is they sucker people in, destroy families, and end up bleeding victims of their money...."

Christianity did the same to my family and to many other families of those I grew up with.

Because this cult (X-tianity) is "labeled" a religion I guess it makes it ok tho?

At least Scientology preys on rich and lifely-stable folks, whereas Xtianity preys on the weak and lifely-bankrupt - it's easier to make a weak person conform.

Seems Christianity (and other mainstream, uhem, religions) is a cult as well. Ask anyone that managed to get out of it, you will get an almost universal concurance of that opinion.

I'm not praising Scientology, nor harping Xtianism, just pointing out that "cult" is different to everyone. Personally, I see Christianity being more harmful to a scociety than Scientology (and I've never had a Scientologist come knocking on my door with a notice blatantly stating "no soliciting". Chrsitians seem to consider themselves above the wishes of my own home).
  by: Discarded Vet   06/27/2007 02:40 PM     
Made repeated attempts to destabilse governments, I'd consider it a threat to national security aswell.
  by: Gogevandire   06/27/2007 02:54 PM     
  The issue is not that hes a scientologist  
It's that he wants to play Graf von Stauffenberg - a man of great importance and honor to German culture and history.

It is their belief that Tom Cruise playing Stauffenberg would be a smear to his name and dishonor his memory.
  by: lauriesman     06/27/2007 03:45 PM     
  @ lauriesman  
"....The issue is not that hes a scientologist...."

The opposite is stated in the source ........

"....because its star Tom Cruise is a Scientologist, the Defense Ministry said on Monday.

This is stated yet again further in the article by Harald Kammerbauer, Defense Ministry spokesman.
  by: Discarded Vet   06/27/2007 03:58 PM     
If it's a religion, it is one that holds $ dearly.

It's based upon acceding levels to the point of become a grand master, like cruize. But in order to achieve levels of mastery with Scientology you need to complete training, you must. Complete training, pay money you will.
Afford training you cannot? Ok, it is. Sign over Car and house you will.

Family and friends worry, they may. But ignore them, you must.
  by: ukcn001XYZ   06/27/2007 04:03 PM     
  @Discarded Vet  
I never made any pro-Christian comments here. I currently live in Bible belt, so you don't have to tell me about weird Christian cults and extremist religious groups.

All that said, Scientology stands head and shoulders above all other cults as being utterly ridiculous in their beliefs. Mormonism is right behind. But I have no love for any of them.

I don't care what spiritual beliefs a person has, as long as they keep to themselves and don't try and ram them, or their moral beliefs down my throat.
  by: ZCT     06/27/2007 04:14 PM     
Its central practice is "auditing," which you have to pay for every time you get it. So to practice Scientology, you have to pay a fee -- a "fixed donation". They claim, however, that their religion *requires* that people give something in exchange for what they receive -- so why call their fees "fixed donations" if not to keep up the appearance of being a religion?

Also, most Scientologists, particularly the older ones, don't think of their beliefs as a religion. Many call it a "technology." The religious aspects certainly seem to be motivated more by a desire to avoid paying taxes.
  by: l´anglais     06/27/2007 04:37 PM     
I have heard very little about this and reading the comments in here I am now even more confused.
  by: captainJane     06/27/2007 05:49 PM     
  @ jane  
don't let people tell you about religions and cults... help yourself to them!
good starting point:

and there are many books articles regarding the matter.
  by: DarkAngelJG     06/27/2007 05:56 PM     
It's an absolute miracle that anyone would subscribe to a 'religion' founded by a science fiction writer.
  by: bane39   06/27/2007 07:52 PM     
They are a terrible cult, whose, "religult" is based off collecting money from it's members. They believe a book written by L. Ron Hubbard, a noted science fiction writer (I think you can see where this is going)

Anyway, it involves aliens, magic, spaceships and volcanos. I think there was mind control in it too. Anyway, the more gullible actors have been seduced into it apparently because they lack common sense.
  by: seniorgato     06/27/2007 07:57 PM     
  For a fiar balanced view on the  
tenants of scientology, you cant do better southpark 912.

  by: GogeVandire   06/27/2007 08:51 PM     
  A different angle  
It sounds like this is less about the question of religion versus cult (which IS a fine and confusing line) and more about the question of religion versus scam.
  by: MomentOfClarity     06/27/2007 08:51 PM     
Wow, I agree with Goge and Lauriesman in the same thread. Scary. I need to buy a lottery ticket on the way home.
  by: ZCT     06/27/2007 10:13 PM     
has a well documented reason to fear know it all a-holes with all the answers.
  by: Rybeam   06/28/2007 02:48 AM     
  Go Germany  
  by: fballer23   06/28/2007 02:51 AM     
  For those whose history is rough  
Stauffenberg was one of the major players and ring leaders in the attempt on Hitler's life and to over-throw the reich and end the war.

When the plan failed (very close to success) Claus and his friends were rounded up and executed by one of the conspirators in an attempt to preserve his own life.

He died with honor, and with courage.
  by: lauriesman     06/28/2007 06:10 AM     
  From wikipedia  
"Stauffenberg had been for years convinced by the criminal nature of the Hitler regime, but since early 1943 he believed, that Hitler's strategies would ruin Germany and cost millions of additional innocent lives. He felt like many people around him that there had to be an attempt on Hitler's life. Later in July 1944 Claus had doubts about the chance of success. His friend Tresckow convinced him that the plot had to be attempted even with no chance of success, if this would be the only way to prove to the world that the Hitler regime and Germany were not necessarily identical and to demonstrate that not all Germans tolerated Hitler's crimes. In June 1944 the Allies landed in France on D-day. Like most German military professionals, Stauffenberg had absolutely no doubt that the war was lost. Only an immediate armistice could avoid even more tremendous bloodshed and further damage to Germany and its people.

Stauffenberg was aware that by German law (then and now) he was about to commit high treason. He openly told young conspirator Axel von dem Bussche in a meeting 1943: "Let's be matter of fact, I am with all my power and means pursuing high treason...." ("Gehen wir in medias res, ich betreibe mit allen mir zur Verfuegung stehenden Mitteln den Hochverrat...") [> Joachim Fest; Hitler - Eine Biographie; Proylaeen, Berlin; 2. Auflage 2004; Page 961; ISBN 3 549 07172 8.] He justified his project to Bussche by reference to the right under natural law (in German, "Naturrecht") to defend millions of people's lives from the criminal aggressions of Hitler (in German: "Nothilfe").

From the beginning of September 1943 until July 21, 1944, Claus was the driving force behind the plot. His resolve, his organisational abilities, and his revolutionary approach put an end to inactivity caused by doubts and long discussions on hitherto military virtues made obsolete by Hitler's behavior. Helped by Henning von Tresckow, he united the conspirators and drove them into action.> Joachim Fest; "Hitler - Eine Biographie" ."
  by: lauriesman     06/28/2007 06:12 AM     
As Goge says, the southpark explanation is the best. The fact they believe that aliens of immense technological advancement an immense number of years ago built inter-galactical spaceships that happened to look EXACTLY like DC-10s pretty much sums up the religion.

Ok, a guy walking on water is one thing, but that just takes the cake.
  by: jendres     06/28/2007 07:15 AM     
DC-8s not DC-10s. Silly me!
  by: jendres     06/28/2007 07:31 AM     
  I'm mostly against...  
Scientology harassment of its critics, they will picket outside of critics houses, they actively believe in a "fair game" policy which basically states that any Scientologist can, lie, cheat, harm or kill anyone who opposes Scientology.
  by: tiggyfiggy   06/28/2007 09:38 AM     
guys, for those who don't like the religion/ cult dont join it. But for an EU country to stop an actor from shooting a film because of his belief is just wrong in my opinion. What happened to the freedom of belief?
As for Stauffenberg, Tom Cruise has a very good status in the movie world and he resemble him looks wise. The other alternative i can think of is Charlie Sheen.
However, they denied him for his faith and i find that absurd.
  by: DarkAngelJG     06/28/2007 12:49 PM     
Yeah, because DC-10s would just be CRAZY!
  by: ZCT     06/28/2007 01:05 PM     
Again, faith is a personal choice to believe a certain way about spirituality.

Scientology is a money grabbing cult that suckers people in, isolates them from their families, takes the victims money, fills their head full of stupid ideas, and leaves them emotionally crippled, relying on the crutch of the cult.

It's one thing to believe in a god of some kind. But to believe that aliens flew from another world in space ships disguised as airplanes, and that their ghosts are possessing human beings and that a magic machine (which has been completely debunked) can detect them etc etc. Yeah it's a cult, and it should not be encouraged.
  by: ZCT     06/28/2007 01:10 PM     
  Ricky Bobby  
Help me Tom Cruise! Use your witch magic to put the fire out!
  by: ablindmansees     06/28/2007 02:05 PM     
they arent forbidding him to play the part, not to enter the country, they are forbidding him to shoot on their military sites, big difference.
  by: ganjaman22     06/28/2007 02:22 PM     
  Operation Clambake  
And many other Scientology issues are discussed on this site here

I found it to be pretty interesting reading actually.
  by: zephan     06/28/2007 03:22 PM     
yes, but people are not that stupid to fall for things or be brainwashed that easily?! and those who are have money to pay for their cult and status so it is self-promoting and their money.
  by: DarkAngelJG     06/28/2007 05:17 PM     
  Scientology Beliefs  
There are a few good links that explain the foundation and theology of the Scientologists. However, this clip does a terrific job of capturing its essence (and the entire episode is actually very entertaining):

Although much of the episode is parodied, the concept and beliefs of the Scientologists represented is actually true.

Some of you will remember that Isaac Hayes, the voice of South Park's Chef and a Scientologist, resigned from South Park because of this episode. After this episode initially aired, Tom Cruise called upon Paramount Picture execs and refused to promote Mission Impossible III if this episode was ever re-aired. Both Paramount and Comedy Central are owned by parent company Viacom.
Tom got his way and the episode wasn't re-aired until Paramount dumped Tom earlier this year.
  by: CArnold     06/28/2007 05:51 PM     
  @ general confusion  
Germanies reason for banning Cruise is that they do not recognize his stated religion as a religion. They arent so much concerned about its cult status as they are its scam status. i say BOOYAA to Germany ... they have the right, and clearly the intelligence to recognize Cruise for the putz that he is.
  by: bpearson   06/28/2007 06:54 PM     
I am offended by your comparison of mormonism to scientology. Mormons don't kill people, we just like our women young and numerous.

Also Scientology is purely a criminal organization and is in no way religious. Its like the Mafia posing as a religion. They have many corrupt politicians putting their enemies behind bars its rediculous. I'm also probably on one of their hit lists. So I have personal distain for them.

  by: Tetsuru Uzuki     06/28/2007 11:57 PM     
  @Tetsuru Uzuki  
Try telling that to Tom Cruise.

And I never compared Mormonism to Scientology. I merely stated that on my list of cults Scientology is at the top, since it is now so well known. Next on my list is Mormonism. That's not really a comparison, except that I am claiming them both to be cults.
  by: ZCT     06/29/2007 12:44 AM     
  @ Tetsuru Uzuki  
"....Scientology is purely a criminal organization...."

Do you have anything to that claim?
  by: Discarded Vet   06/29/2007 02:16 AM     
  @ ZCT  
Your first post directed to me .... that makes sense.
(Didn't want you to think I was just dropping the discussion from you).

Ya know, you'de think Al would have invented built-in inflection protocols when he made this here Interwebthingy.
  by: Discarded Vet   06/29/2007 02:19 AM     
  It's OK  
They should be able to block anyone for any reason from any of their MILITARY sites, of course. Their reason says a lot about them. Being an atheist, I believe any 'real' religion has just as little credibility as scientology. I think religion has caused and is causing most of the problems in the world.

This is just a little more petty squabbling that might add to the pile of problems caused by religion, or caused by the differences between religious people merely because of beliefs.
  by: ibcm   06/29/2007 02:20 AM     
The thing is, Scientology is not a religion, it is a cult, and I see nothing wrong from banning a cult from certain areas, especially military sites.
  by: the_one   06/29/2007 07:26 AM     

Religion -
a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.

a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.

Imagine that. Seems to me that all religions are cults, as all cults are religions. Just depends on if CNN and Foxnews like them or not I guess.
  by: tv34291   06/30/2007 04:53 AM     
  by: ploss     06/30/2007 06:01 AM     

"In Canada, the Church of Scientology is considered a religious non-profit organization; its application for charity status was rejected in 1999.[citation needed] In 1992, Scientology became the only religious organization convicted in criminal court on two counts of breach of the public trust ***(for an organized conspiracy to infiltrate government offices)*** following a trial by jury.[130]"

"On October 1, 1993 the IRS formally announced that the Church of Scientology and its corporate entities had been granted tax exemption again. The settlement document was sealed by the IRS, but it was leaked to, and subsequently published by the New York Times. The New York Times also stated in a March 9, 1997 article that, in its efforts to obtain tax-exempt status, ***Scientologists paid private investigators to obtain compromising material on the IRS commissioner***."

Religions dont infiltrate the government.
  by: Gogevandire   07/02/2007 02:51 PM     
In a way, you are correct. Cults infiltrate governments and fail. Religions infiltrate governments, succeed, and control them.

For instance,

Just depends on who writes the history textbook. Not that I agree with Scientology, but hey, you gotta have a hobby, right?
  by: tv34291   07/02/2007 11:28 PM     
  Cults vs. Religion  
Good thing I'm back.
"I'm glad I got out of Christianity."
What is their definition of Christianity?
* Follower of Christ
* Follower of a human leader

A Christian means simply follower of Christ. That means the Bible as completed by 100 AD and not even the extra books 14 - 20 books in Catholic and Orthodox Bibles (which don't stand historical scrutiny).

Relatioinship with Jesus or religion are two differnt things. Ritual, outward stuff = religion.

Question, who is your God / god?
god - yourself; I created myself. All is accident, we come from, live for and die to accidents. Universe just fizzles with no meaning. Satan? Money?

Or God? If Satan is real, as Jesus claims, then Satan would certainly try to convince everyone there is no God; or all paths lead to God' don't worry, there's no heaven or hell.Hm.

Lotsapeople believe in demonic forces, and they turn around and assume there are no good forces. Or certainly there is not the One.

Jesus said He is the only Way.
Accept or reject Him.
Reject -- 1 in zillions of odds. You bet your life on accidents. And overlook the 100% record of the Bible.

Get mad! get even! but don't study the Bible. Assume that's it's all fake.
  by: herolung   07/14/2007 10:34 PM     
I'm the other way. I assume they are all true in some fashion or another. The message that each teaches is important, not the dogma and rhetoric.

Pantheism is much easier for my brain to wrap around than atheism.
  by: tv34291   07/14/2007 10:43 PM     
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