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07/10/2007 05:20 PM ID: 63548 Permalink   

Execution by Stoning for Convicted Adulterer

 

Tehran, Iran--In the first confirmed stoning in years, Jafar Kiani, a convicted adulterer, was executed on Thursday. Adultery is one of many capital offenses in Iran and is punishable by stoning.

The punishment, despite being a violation of international law and seen as "cruel and barbaric" punishment, was carried out two weeks after it had been delayed by international pressure, to include protests from Norway, against the stoning.

The stoning is in violation of an international treaty that Iran has signed. Reformist legislators have called for an end to execution by stoning for adultery. Women's activists have also been campaigning for the removal of the practice.

 
  Source: news.yahoo.com  
    WebReporter: ukitty24 Show Calling Card    
  Recommendation:  
ASSESS this news: BLOCK this news. Reason:
   
  51 Comments
  
  Before some of you  
 
get all high and mighty when Iran picks enough scabs for the U.S. to go to war and you people want to "Have peace talks" first - this is the kind of people your dealing with. There is no "talk and pass the peace pipe".
 
  by: Classy   07/10/2007 05:43 PM     
  I'll agree with Classy  
 
On the preimse that the time for talk is over. If a country can talk to another country, that is absolutely wonderful and i'd prefer it over war, but when you look at how these people treat their own, what the hell is the point?
 
  by: Jediman3     07/10/2007 06:03 PM     
  jail them all  
 
Put "Berlin Wall" around the country and seal it off completely. Check back in a century or two. If anything is left moving, do an attitude check. If bad attitude is found, reseal for another two centuries. Then recheck.... If there is a third time, raise the height of the enclosure to 50 feet , reaseal, and fill 70% with sea water. Add salt water crocodiles. Recheck in 50 years.
 
  by: LeePIII   07/10/2007 06:20 PM     
  @LeePIII  
 
We need more who think like you
 
  by: Bluep     07/10/2007 06:27 PM     
  @Bluep  
 
I think that attitude is disgusting!

Only 70% water after 450 years?!

Cmon, surely we can be more efficient than that ;) >:)
 
  by: spacechimp     07/10/2007 06:33 PM     
  Voilation!!!  
 
OHMIGOSH! Iran has violated an internation treaty which it signed!!!???

How can this be???
 
  by: JohnK   07/10/2007 06:39 PM     
  As if Iran Cares  
 
I mean come on. Oh no, they broke a rule! I mean, Iran, breaking a rule? Never thought I'd see the day.
/sarcasm
 
  by: seniorgato     07/10/2007 07:45 PM     
  I tried to get stoned to death once  
 
but after 3 ½ oz I couldn’t remember which end of my lighter the fire came out of. So I sat there watching reruns of Green Acres and drooling on myself for the rest of the day. Has anyone else noticed how much Mr. Haney looks and acts like Dubya?
 
  by: Valkyrie123     07/10/2007 07:45 PM     
  Hmm  
 
Oh I don't know, I think if I was the spouse in all of thise, it would feel like justice to me.
 
  by: ablindmansees     07/10/2007 07:55 PM     
  @Valkyrie123  
 
OMFG LOL!
 
  by: Jediman3     07/10/2007 08:34 PM     
  How barbaric of them  
 
and how gentle of everyone here or in other threads coming up with ways of punishing criminals.
Not all iranians walk around stoning each other.
I am not saying the practice is right, i am simply saying we have our own share of barbarianism. The practice should stop, but attacking/ having war with iran will not solve anything, it will simply leave a well off and technologically advanced nation as a pile of ash and market bombers.
 
  by: DarkAngelJG     07/10/2007 11:00 PM     
  @Dark  
 
I believe before too long we will not have a choice. Between Dumb and Dumber and Iran's president, there is going to be a fireworks show of epic purportions.
 
  by: Classy   07/10/2007 11:34 PM     
  @Classy  
 
In dumb and dumber, where do you fit Dubya??
@ Dark. Not all Iranians stone people, it must be the ones you know. Civilized ones. The rest who still follow the tenets of their religion are deffinately backwards, uncivilized. Thank you ma'am.

@Classy again. I dont know and am sorry to use such epithets as "stupid"
So as you were typing your fecal matter, have you noticed how US congress is blaming your highnes George and what plight he has brought to this entire world??

Are you forgeting that, it is not Iranians, who need to extend their peacefull purpose but, USA!!?

USA arming everyone else who sides with them, killing and hoodwinking you with rhetorics of FREEDOM and peace and you are buying that shit!!

Freaking GROW UP and puff puff and pass it on.
 
  by: kinko     07/10/2007 11:51 PM     
  Haha  
 
Wrong. There is always time for talk. The only people that think that there is no more time for diplomatic means are the people that have simply run out of ideas. And yes, we call these people idiots.

Why do I even bother...
 
  by: QuestioningAnswers   07/11/2007 12:59 AM     
  I would prefer another punishment  
 
Like allowing the husband to brutally kill both parties. Which is what I would do anyway, regardless of the law.
 
  by: Tetsuru Uzuki     07/11/2007 01:01 AM     
  the West..  
 
has it's own fair share of barbaric execution practices. Somehow most of us have matured out of stoning, lynching, burning, impaling, trampling, quartering, beheading, drowning, boiling, etc people to death.

I'm not entirely sure why we as a culture grew out of it. There's no one instance I can point to a say "this here was the catalyst that made us stop butchering each other."

When did we start valuing life in the WQest? We haven't always. Was it due to a decline of hardline religion? An increase in the general standard of living? Did the wars the West fought expose us to too much death and destruction?

Whatever it was caused the people to eventually put pressure on the politicians to pass laws for the more humane treatment of prisioners (so maybe also a result of our forms of government?).

We're tyring to jump to the last stage of the process with countries like Iran -- namly jumping striaght to the legislation part without having their culture "mature" to the point where humane practices are generally accepted.

I'm not saying that nothing should be done to try to prevent future inhumane acts, but change is going to have to come from within these cultures, not legislated on them from the UN or other 3rd parties.
 
  by: Dedolito     07/11/2007 01:29 AM     
  @Dedo  
 
Well said!
 
  by: StarShadow     07/11/2007 01:35 AM     
  Thank you Dedolito  
 
I believe more people should understand this:

"I'm not saying that nothing should be done to try to prevent future inhumane acts, but change is going to have to come from within these cultures, not legislated on them from the UN or other 3rd parties."

Yes! and the same I believe goes for changing the individual countryman's mindset as well (a.k.a. the basis of any country).

The way I see it, it seems nearly impossible to change anyone by direct force. From what I have observed, the only way that we can change anyone is to make them want to change themselves.

Until that starts happening, I wish everyone good luck who is trying to cure anything with punishment. You'll need it.
 
  by: QuestioningAnswers   07/11/2007 01:43 AM     
  sub-humans!  
 
That gives rights to nuke them, riiight?
Womens rights, eat cats, wear veils, that makes us better than them, eh?

Ladies and Gents, here we see an example of Trollers picking a piece of sensationalism from yahoo and then getting their little gang of trollers to mob the story.

We claim this thread, ours!
 
  by: redstain   07/11/2007 02:04 AM     
  Note For Classy  
 
George Bush as Gov. of Texas executed several
mentally retarded prisoners - http://www2.bc.edu/...
~sydnor/2.html - something regarded as "cruel and
barbaric" by the entire civilized world. After stealing
a national election, he perpetrated an illegal,
immoral invasion & occupation of a country that
had no connection to 9/11, & in the ensuing years
has killed tens of thousands of innocent civilians &
imprisoned & tortured thousands of "terrorists" -
again, "cruel and barbaric" by any standards held by
the civilized world. So perhaps it's This Once Great
Nation that needs to be surrounded by a wall &
filled with seawater?
 
  by: JadedMarty   07/11/2007 03:30 AM     
  Islam: Religion of Intolerance and Brutality?  
 
I'm as left as they come, but i can't see past Islam being a backward and brutal religion. I think most humans are well meaning and kind but dogma like Sharia turns people into animals. Unfortuanatly i can't think of any solution either, but the United States' military pressure and threats only strengthen regimes like Iran's (and was the cause of the Islamist revolution in the first place). Maybe sanctions and embargoes for acts like this and the criminal treatment of women could help, but America's best friend Saudi Arabia is one of the worst offenders so that would be a bit of a double standard. I can't wait until we find an alternate source of energy so we don't have to pander to these backwards cultures anymore.
 
  by: lachs     07/11/2007 09:54 AM     
  What forms of execution are classed as brutal?  
 
Electric Chair?
Gas?
Lethal Injection?
Firing Squad?
Noose?
Stoning?
Gangplank?
Gladiatorial?

Stoning seems quite brutal because of the percieved time it takes for someone to lose consciousness. [Errm, does anyone know the statistical average duration of an stoning?].

Is it a sign of civilization, when we use gadgets to kill someone as opposed to strangulation?

I personally find stoning a little harsh, but I know my vatage point was different, and it was good enough for the Jews/Jesus.
 
  by: redstain   07/11/2007 12:50 PM     
  @Red  
 
I think the problem people have is is it designed to kill someone, or hurt them.

The Chair is hardly painless, I can imagine gas could be, but doubt it it.
I know the lethal injection isnt, they give you a pain killer then some sort of salt solution.
Firing Squad, one assumes getting shot by 10 people should kill you pretty quickly.
Hanging can go either way depending on how the ropes tied, it can go from slow strangulation ;ast over half an hour, to an immediate broken neck, and even complete decapitation.
Stoning, well, throwing rocks at someone till they die is neither quick or painless, it seems designed to cause pain, and make the crowd happy to torture people to death.
I'm not sure if walking the plank has ever existed in real life, most british pirate ships actualy elected the captain.
And gladiatorial games, well, they arent supposed to be quick and painles either, its entertainment.

You forgot beheading, which before the guilotene was incredably painful.
The axe used was fairly blunt and top heavy, one execution I read about the executer took 4 swings, then finished the job with a knife.

I have no problem with the death penelty as a punishment, I do have a problem with it as a form of entertainment, especialy one where the baying crowd beats the victim to death.

Thats not justice under any view.
 
  by: Gogevandire   07/11/2007 01:07 PM     
  @Gogevandire  
 
Well a blunt axe had its advantages, if you were lucky, the first blow would knock you unconscious where as with a clean swipe from a swordsman or guillotine, the head could remain conscious for around i minute i believe.
 
  by: tiggyfiggy   07/11/2007 02:11 PM     
  @Red  
 
Civilized killing, now there's an interesting concept. How is killing ever civilized? *Ugh, we can't think of anything better to do to you so we're just going to kill you. That'll teach you to misbehave!*

Sheesh.
 
  by: ablindmansees     07/11/2007 02:20 PM     
  @lach  
 
<> I can't wait until we find an alternate source of energy so we don't have to pander to these backwards cultures anymore.</Q>

Typical. Your ancestors did that, you will continue doing that. Remember slaves, unitl your nations were built, only to treat inhumanely, the same coloured people until today!!

SO since you havent found the alternate energy, keep licking that ass.

Oh yea now go figure who are the finders of such knowledge. I bet you meant Caucasians right!? What a troll
 
  by: kinko     07/11/2007 02:40 PM     
  @Kinko  
 
I'm not sure what your ethnic background is, but I gathered from some other threads that your religious background is at least Islamic. In which case, if you have any ethnic ties that coincide with your religious ties, I very much doubt you have room to talk of slavery.

Everyone at some point in time has practiced slavery whether it be the Africans selling off their own people, or enslaving them themselves, Europeans buying selling and trading slaves, the early muslim nations, most prominantly the Ottoman Empire which enslaved many of the people they dominated, the Greeks, the Chinese, the Asian, the Polynesian (sp?), the Romans, the Celts, the Moors, the Franks, you can search and search and find more and more examples of slavery. Oh, and let us not forget the Jews.

So somewhere at some point in time it's probably safe to say that everyone was related to the slavetrade some how. There is no culture that is pure and without blame. So get off the high horse.
 
  by: ablindmansees     07/11/2007 02:51 PM     
  @redstain  
 
"Ladies and Gents, here we see an example of Trollers picking a piece of sensationalism from yahoo and then getting their little gang of trollers to mob the story."

Just for clarification to you...all I personally did was find a story in the news that I found interesting and summarized it. If you notice, after posting the story, I've made no comments to how we should nuke Iran, take care of Iran, etc, etc, etc. So please, before you assume that people post stories like this to back up their views of why we are all better than other countries and should wage war, just don't, unless you have something to back it up. Thank you.

/end rant
 
  by: ukitty24   07/11/2007 02:54 PM     
  @Lach and Kinko  
 
Oddly enough, if we werent civillised, we wouldnt pander to the middle east, we'd exterminate it.

Something to ponder, both of you.
 
  by: Gogevandire   07/11/2007 02:58 PM     
  @ukitty: apologies  
 
"Ladies and Gents, here we see an example of Trollers picking a piece of sensationalism from yahoo and then getting their little gang of trollers to mob the story."

Statement was not pointed at you, though you got caught up in crossfire.
 
  by: redstain   07/11/2007 07:09 PM     
  @goge: 'exterminate' is a term used for vermin  
 
You claim we're civilised, but you're eager to use language which shows we're not.

At risk of invoking Godwins law, many people have committed atrocities in the past - atrocities the whole world condemns - and the first step was always to DE-humanise the subject.
 
  by: redstain   07/11/2007 07:13 PM     
  @redstain  
 
It's used for people too. Doesn't necessarily show dehumanization rather, shows intent.

ex·ter·mi·nate [ik-stur-muh-neyt]
–verb (used with object), -nat·ed, -nat·ing. to get rid of by destroying; destroy totally; extirpate: to exterminate an enemy; to exterminate insects.


[Origin: 1535–45; < L extermin?tus, ptp. of extermin?re to extermine; see -ate1]
http://dictionary.reference.com/...
 
  by: ablindmansees     07/11/2007 07:49 PM     
  @Red  
 
Utterly not my intention, I did ponder a good word for a while, I chose exterminate over decimate in the end, since decimation just involves killing every 10th male.

Perhaps you should re read my comment?
 
  by: GogeVandire   07/11/2007 08:07 PM     
  All civilizations  
 
have their ups and downs. All tormented, destroyed, built, invented etc...
Islam and africans did many great things, the west did horrible things and many great things too. A bunch of people does not represent a religion and a few fanatics in a country do not represent their country. However, as humans we all like to jump to conclusions and generalize that's why we end up waging wars and killing each other.
 
  by: DarkAngelJG     07/11/2007 08:39 PM     
  DarkAngelJG  
 
Is your comment not a generalization in itself?

....

Is the news also not a generalization of what has happened?

If so, is reading and participating in the news not helping the cause for killlngs, criticisms and war?
 
  by: QuestioningAnswers   07/11/2007 08:50 PM     
  @ QA  
 
i don't see things the same way you do, news makes us more aware of what is going on and brings many important things to our attention. Generalizing is assuming someone or a whole culture/ country is something.
 
  by: DarkAngelJG     07/11/2007 10:58 PM     
  @kinko  
 
Ooh, i must have hit a raw nerve there. I'm sorry but any religion that demands execution by STONING for a petty crime like ADULTERY is backward, spin it any way you like and call me a troll but how is it in any way justice?

Just because i called your dogma backwards you try to insult me for things my ancestors did? This happened last week dude, how can you bring up shit that happened hundreds of years ago in any kind of comparison?

I have no idea what you were going on about with the 'knowledge' thing.

@Goge
Left field doesn't come close to describing how aloof that comment was. 'Exterminate'? If we're disgusted at stoning then how do you even add genocide to the picture?
 
  by: lachs     07/12/2007 08:05 AM     
  If my Wife  
 
committed adultry, she should be stoned or drunk one...lol
 
  by: Tobykieth     07/12/2007 08:19 AM     
  DarkAngelJG  
 
We definitely are not on the same level, but we are seeing exactly the same thing. You're right, the news does bring us information. That's not what I was talking about.

I'm talking about the generalizations of the information that the news brings us (as we never get the whole story) and the resulting backlash from it. I completely agree with what you said, generalizations of countries and customs can lead us to false conclusions and result in war. As I see it, the generalizations that the news brings us can do the same exact thing.

As a short example; we see Fox News in the US do this. They will show more of a right wing generalization of the news. This news of course is not a fallacy, but presented in such a way that leads the unmindful watcher to unconsciously form right-wing opinions....and as we know, generalizations are opinions.

The unmindful viewer now makes decisions in his or her every day life based upon those generalizations (voting, arguing, debating, supporting war, etc).

I'm sure you see how these generalizations the news brings us can lead to war, just as you mentioned before regarding a generalization about a certain culture or country. This example of course is a generalization in itself, and not as in depth as I believe the subject matter goes (we can always go deeper if you want).

Do you see where I'm coming from now?
 
  by: QuestioningAnswers   07/12/2007 08:23 AM     
  This custom is religious dogma...  
 
at its worst. I'm ashamed to say that it's still condoned by Muslim hardliners in countries like Iran. The mentality as I've explained before in various other posts is ancient, it remains unchanged. It was a common practice back in the day and has no place in modern society. I cannot emphasize enough that clerics are relics, and it was even written that that when the "mehdi" or "twelfth imam" returns the first people to fall by the sword would be the clerics. However this is more of Shi'ite belief.
 
  by: Zmethod     07/12/2007 08:38 AM     
  @Lachs  
 
Because we are civillised, we accept uncivillised behaviour.

Were we uncivillised, we would not.

Is that clear enough?
 
  by: Gogevandire   07/12/2007 09:27 AM     
  looking for injustice  
 
You'll put down your rock and I'll put down my sword and we'll try and kill each other like civilized people?

You know before someone accuses me of being pro-stoning or some other bs. I'm amazed how many people express their outrage (which they should and would be correct in doing so in this case) but fail to acknowledge that if you're up for searching out injustice in the world you seldom have to look any further than your own back yard. Not everyone in Iran supports these actions however as Iran of late is being demonized in the US media continuously in order to prepare the US population for a future war .(it being easier to accept the slaughter of a nation if you convince your own population that you're only killing savages) It may be worth pointing out that if we applied the same attitude to injustices in Iran as we do to injustice in other countries we may end up getting a very negative view of ourselves .
Is stoning a person to death wrong, yes , is an all white jury sending 6 black school kids to 20-120 years in prison for a schoolyard fight wrong ,yes ….which gets the media coverage ….the stoning , why? Because it’s in Iran …..
BTW it’s just my 2 cents but I don’t think the way to bring a more humane justice system to Iran is by bombing the hell out of the place which believe it or not is related to this article . (my opinion being that this article rings a lot like the images of torture committed in Iraq by Saddam’s troops which pacified the US population into thinking bombing the place was all ok , I mean this sort of thing goes on all the time in say Saudi Arabia and many other countries but Iran is whipping boy of the month and that should be taken into consideration when consuming news like this. So to recap yeah it’s wrong, it’s real and I’m against the death penalty but this its all part of a big media push to demonize Iran even further.
 
  by: Hugo Chavez     07/12/2007 10:11 AM     
  oh as for.... the time for Diplomacy is over  
 
Heres a snippet from Michael Parenti from many years back but still rings true today .

Traditional diplomacy is a process of negotiating disputes through give and take, proposal and counterproposal, a way of pressing one's interests only so far, arriving eventually at a solution that may leave one side more dissatisfied than the other but not to the point of forcing either party to war.

U.S. diplomacy is something else, as evidenced in its dealings with Vietnam, Nicaragua, Panama, Iraq, and now Yugoslavia. It consists of laying down a set of demands that are treated as nonnegotiable, though called “accords” or “agreements,” as in the Dayton Accords or Rambouillet Agreements. The other side’s reluctance to surrender completely to every condition is labeled “stonewalling,” and is publicly misrepresented as an unwillingness to negotiate in good faith. U.S. leaders, we hear, run out of patience as their “offers” are “snubbed.” Ultimatums are issued, then aerial destruction is delivered upon the recalcitrant nation so that it might learn to see things the way Washington does.
 
  by: Hugo Chavez     07/12/2007 10:24 AM     
  @blind  
 
I like your alias. Blind! I guess relations of my religion and my ethnicity, will have to be, I am from the Arabian peninsular, right?

Muslims does not mean arab. I can still talk about slavery.
 
  by: kinko     07/12/2007 08:07 PM     
  @classy, Jediman  
 
C: "Before some of you get all high and mighty...and you people want to "Have peace talks" first..."

Before you get all high and mighty thinking that two wrongs make a right while the ends justify the means, you might consider that peace talks are just as important also to prevent the deaths of OUR soldiers. Maybe next time you want to show how tough America is, you should think about the people you're sending to do it for you.

J: "If a country can talk to another country, that is absolutely wonderful and i'd prefer it over war, but when you look at how these people treat their own, what the hell is the point?"

The point: "Reformist legislators have called for an end to execution by stoning for adultery. Women's activists have also been campaigning for the removal of the practice."

"These people" are not all these people.
 
  by: MomentOfClarity     07/12/2007 08:24 PM     
  Why is stoning inappropriate for adultery?  
 
Is it because we or those we admire;
* have done it ourselves
* see ourselves doing it in the future
* are doing it now

Why is adultery a petty crime? What happens if it was a sex predator? I can hear you all screaming "cut of his balls". This is a religious crime, and for believers, that's also a heinous crime demanding the perpetrator be expunged from their society.

Do we pour scorn and derision on others because they have something to believe in (god, cigarettes, sports, goodwill) and it's different to ours.

Do you feel threatend by a society, because it's intolerant to your lifestyle/lifechoices? It's a natural response I suppose.
 
  by: redstain   07/12/2007 08:25 PM     
  @Classy  
 
Some people are addicted to hate and fear.

They read magazines/papers for gossip, trawl the news for excuses to hate, troll the forums.

Addicted to the feeling of anger?

(no, I'm not projecting. just assessing some of you)
 
  by: redstain   07/12/2007 08:32 PM     
  Maybe they said 'Jehovah'  
 
So the crowd squished em with a big rock!

I hope Im not the only one to get that reference.
 
  by: slavefortheman     07/12/2007 08:41 PM     
  @Kinko  
 
And I in no way shape or form said that because you were Muslim you must be Arabic. Sheesh!

And as I went on to point out, I cannot think of any modern day society that has not at some point in time encompassed some form of slavery. The point is, all our ancestors are to blame, and not just Caucasians, no matter how nice it might be just to blame them for everything.

If anyone, at least in the US, has a real viable argument to unjust treatment today by the government it would be Native Americans.
 
  by: ablindmansees     07/12/2007 08:52 PM     
  @redstain  
 
While I can't speak for anyone else, I'll give you my reasons as to why I believe that stoning is an inappropriate punishment. And no, it's not because I myself am an adulterer nor to I plan on being one nor do I look up to anyone who is. My reasons are simply this:

1) I don't consider it a sex crime such as the crimes that sexual predators commit, when you're talking about 2 legally of age consenting adults engaging in sexual activity outside of marriage.

2) you say that it's a religious crime...but what about those who don't follow that religion or any religion for that matter? For a crime such as adultery, especially if they see nothing wrong with it (some people just don't believe in monogomous relationships) why should a 'religious law' be forced down their throats? If they'd commited murder that would be different, because while yes, I know, that can be viewed as a religious law, it's also a civil law.

I'm not saying I think adultery is right, but I don't agree with such a harsh punishment. I don't think that the punishment fits the crime.
 
  by: ukitty24   07/12/2007 09:28 PM     
  Blind as Bat  
 
" if you have any ethnic ties that coincide with your religious ties, I very much doubt you have room to talk of slavery."

Lets not play with words, as we see fit! Translate that for me (above) since my religion, may have connections with me not speaking Englich plopely.
 
  by: kinko     07/16/2007 03:24 AM     
 
 
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