ShortNews
+ + + 3 BRANDNEW NewsTickers for your Website! + + + easy configurable in less than 1 Minute + + + GET'EM NOW! + + +

   Home | Join | Submit News | MyShortNews | HighScores | FAQ'S | Forums 0 Users Online   
   
                 01/18/2018 06:56 AM  
  ShortNews Search
search all Channels
RSS feeds
  ShortNews User Poll
Are you excited about the holiday season?
  Latest Events
  9.254 Visits   6 Assessments  Show users who Rated this:
Quality:Very Good
Back to Overview  
01/04/2008 05:40 PM ID: 67476 Permalink   

Man Tortures Child, Removes Skin with Hot Oil and Hair Dryer

 

A Florida man is accused of dousing a 17-month-old child with hot cooking oil and then using a hot air dryer to remove the baby's skin, all in order to keep the baby from crying.

According to records, Darlanne Toussaint, poured hot cooking oil on the boy then shook the child for 10 minutes and when that did not stop the crying burned him with the blow dryer to the point that his skin fell off.

The boy is in stable condition at the local hospital.

 
  Source: www.local6.com  
    WebReporter: RAD Show Calling Card      
  Recommendation:  
ASSESS this news: BLOCK this news. Reason:
   
  58 Comments
  
  WTF....?  
 
Um...I'm all for "an eye for an eye" on this one. WTF was this guy thinking??
 
  by: elderban99     01/04/2008 05:56 PM     
  This man is sick  
 
How could anyone do that to another living creature, let alone a defenseless baby?!?

 
  by: TabbyCool     01/04/2008 06:00 PM     
  Wo  
 
jesus that is horrible. i hope they just shoot the scum and be done with it.
 
  by: bungholio   01/04/2008 06:08 PM     
  speechless  
 
Horrible atrocities against are becoming WAY too common. I fell like snatching my Wolverine outfit from the attic and commense to dispensing some extreme prejudice against these sub-human child predators.
 
  by: crosimoto     01/04/2008 06:08 PM     
  oops!  
 
atrocities against 'children'....
 
  by: crosimoto     01/04/2008 06:11 PM     
  One word...  
 
Florida..
 
  by: cgasucks   01/04/2008 06:23 PM     
  :-(  
 
I think I would have been better off had I *not* read this article.
That is awful.

Impose the death penalty... after he's been skinned and rolled in salt. Sumbitch should die.
 
  by: CArnold     01/04/2008 06:29 PM     
  Just send this guy out to my farm  
 
The hogs are always hungry.
 
  by: Valkyrie123     01/04/2008 07:02 PM     
  Wait a minute..  
 
How is inflicting pain supposed to stop crying?
 
  by: The   01/04/2008 07:10 PM     
  Monster  
 
He should be put in general population wearing a t-shirt that tells what he did to that baby... after he's been skinned and rolled in salt.
 
  by: h0tdamn365   01/04/2008 07:42 PM     
  I say  
 
We do to him what he did to that poor baby!!
My life would have been better off never having seen the title to this article let alone reading it...
 
  by: Allanthar     01/04/2008 07:49 PM     
  At least he's in Florida  
 
Where theres no moratorium on the needle. Its people like this that give the pro-death penalty people so much go juice. Something tells me though he won't even make it to death row.
 
  by: brinlong     01/04/2008 07:53 PM     
  I wonder if...  
 
this was his first violent crime?
 
  by: captainJane     01/04/2008 07:54 PM     
  I  
 
Was eating lunch, and can no longer stomach my food.

 
  by: Reamensa   01/04/2008 08:04 PM     
  The Pterodactyl made him do it....  
 
and i apologize for making light of this situation but it's that or hide in the closet. sick man and i'm glad he's being held without bail but i keep thinking to myself where was the mother while this was happening. the article says she is being charged with child neglect and providing false info to the police. the imagination is running wild to some very bad places...
 
  by: Calilac     01/04/2008 09:22 PM     
  @ everyone  
 
Sick bastard...

I used to be against the death penalty, thinking that criminals would suffer more in jail than to be dead...but I now know I was wrong.

I always think of a quote from the movie "A Time to Kill." Where Jake Brigance is talking to Ellen Roark and says, "The problem with the death penalty is that we don't use it enough."

He is right. Why should we feed, cloth, house, and pay for these bastards to live for all this time?
 
  by: cptfarlow   01/04/2008 09:22 PM     
  The man  
 
must be mentally sick.

Still...an eye for an eye seems just. Burn him with hot oil, shake him, use hot blowers on his skin till it melts off, then pour some salt on him.
 
  by: jediman3     01/04/2008 09:23 PM     
  @cgsucks  
 
Florida? huh? What's wrong with Florida. Just because this sorry excuse for a man tortures a child you think Florida is to blame? How stupid and ignorant. I'm from FL!!!! And I love my 2 year daughter and would never harm her EVER!!! Florida isn't to blame here, if anything at least Florida is going to put him away where he can't do it again.

My prayers are with the child. I hope to God that the man who did this gets locked up for a long long time. Maybe a few immates will happily show him what Florida immates do to men who hurt a helpless child!!!!
 
  by: cabela   01/04/2008 09:37 PM     
  WHA?!  
 
I'm a bit confused about the boy being in stable condition without his skin.

Did just part of it come off? I was thinking it was like, red muscle person like in science class.

Whatever, this is fugged up.
 
  by: jonnysodoff   01/04/2008 09:40 PM     
  sick animal  
 
Some bleeding heart judge or jury will
make sure this animal gets a light
sentence.In a few years he will be
out and preying on another child. But
what can you expect from a society
that cares more for their pets than human life!
 
  by: hulk   01/04/2008 09:43 PM     
  @crosimoto  
 
"...dispensing some extreme prejudice..."

Don't you mean justice? :-)
 
  by: caution2     01/04/2008 09:51 PM     
  If he did that to MY kid  
 
I would find a way to get him out in the desert. I'd stake him over an anthill with honey in his eyes, and use a very small campfire to tune for maximum screaming for as long as it could be made to last. His last meal would be composed of human waste products and his own sex organs. And, he WOULD eat it. If the flames quit working, I would start doing something for the ravens, Promethius style.

Car batteries - Let's see: RED is positive; BLACK is negative; make sure his nuts are wet. Check. When the battery is discharged, and his nuts are toasted, the concentration of H2SO4 is at its highest. How convenient as a means of dissolving his crank, and maybe one inner ear. Later in the week, we might see how much of HIS skin could come off before he dies.

Makes me think how Theodore Franks murdered 2-1/2 year old Amy Sue Sykes in Fountain Valley CA by disassembling her with a pair of vise grips, for his sexual gratification. He only had to go to Atascadero. If I had been her parents, I would have prayed for his early release, so I could have a personal conversation with him....

There is nothing worse than someone who does something like this to an innocent child.

Two wrong don't make a right? He won't learn from it? BS. He'll carry this into subsequent lives, where I could only hope to meet him again...

Bastard.
 
  by: LeePIII   01/04/2008 10:43 PM     
  Ugh  
 
Reading this story made me sick to my stomach. Reading the vengeful responses to this story isn't much better.

Why not be mindful that the bad deeds of others can also make us think of committing bad deeds ourselves in revenge? This way we don't also participate in the mindset that got these criminals where they are now.


"We can more easily avenge an injury than requite a kindness; on this account, because there is less difficulty in getting the better of the wicked than in making one's self equal with the good."
- Cicero
 
  by: QuestioningAnswers   01/04/2008 11:45 PM     
  C'mon People  
 
It's just the usual suspects. Genetic hyper testosteronated, ultra-hyper ignorant, drug addicted, you know them when you see them, lowlife scum. Blood sample, semen sample, one bullet, brain in a bottle. Problem solved.
 
  by: IWMCB   01/05/2008 01:01 AM     
  Sickening :o(  
 
So what makes these sick people (and they are sick ) think that by causing excruciating pain, causes a baby/human to stop crying !! ?? Oh they are crying/upset I will just douse them in cooking oil and burn them with a hot hair dryer and they will stop crying !! What is their metality, and who the heck did they learn it from... ??
 
  by: vampira     01/05/2008 03:59 AM     
  ;0)  
 
missed the letter N out of mentality ;0)
 
  by: vampira     01/05/2008 04:04 AM     
  Revenge Is Not Justice  
 
Nothing can give the baby back the innocence that was taken by this mans cruelty. He can never be permitted to harm another child. It would be just if the money that he would earn in the prison license plate factory, where he should be working for the rest of his life, be sent direcly to the babys bank account. He owes the child at least a college education.
 
  by: ichi     01/05/2008 05:04 AM     
  N/T  
 
He owes the child, more than an education he owes him a life, how many people will look at him the same after this ? We can all say ahhh what a shame, poor child, But we will go on tomorrow as if nothing happened, after a few days we will forget him... He as to live with the disfigurement for the rest of his life...
 
  by: vampira     01/05/2008 05:36 AM     
  Puhleeze!  
 
I am so sick and tired of the "you are as bad as them if you wish harm" crap.
You know who needs the pity? the VICTIM not the CRIMINAL. If you want to feel sorry or defend these idiots then take them into your homes with your families and support them there. Hold there hand, make them tea or coffee and when they kill/rape/rob you or your family suck it up and smile.

I have seen enough child abuse, spousal abuse and beatings done to people to last a life time and I don't feel sorry for the perps when they are charged and put away.
Infants that have been shaken to death by parents or their FB, babies and kids with burns on them from whatever has been used (cigars, cigarettes, curling irons), on and on.

My sympathy for those that do this is NILL and that some in society want to hold their hands make me sick.
/rant
 
  by: TaraB     01/05/2008 07:31 AM     
  Thanks-I just puked!  
 
Some bleeding heart civil rights judge will let him plead insanity and he will be back out on the streets within 6 months.
Florida Folks -lock up your kids,The world is not suitable for sane people
anymore!
 
  by: cavador   01/05/2008 10:08 AM     
  Look at the guy..  
 
Could his eyes be any further apart? There was obviously no lifeguard on duty in his gene pool...
 
  by: Kissin'Kate   01/05/2008 01:07 PM     
  Gad.  
 
Put him in general population. Tell everyone in the
prison what he did.
 
  by: Mister crank     01/05/2008 01:51 PM     
  @TaraB & others  
 
No matter what you do to this man, you can't undo the damage.

You can hurt, maim, skin, fry or kill the guy, but it will be for your own sake of justice. That's perfectly fine if you want to please your own ego. Other than that, I see little purpose in doing any of those things to this guy.
 
  by: mberg     01/05/2008 06:26 PM     
  Revenge  
 
I am grateful that the justice system, even in America, is not run by the people who read and comment on ShortNews.

Every time someone commits a crime we have post after post detailing the medieval way in which we can deal with the criminal involved. People who have probably never read the Bible start talking about 'eye for an eye.' Others try to play Dr. Evil and devise devious and sadistic methods of torture and death for the criminal.

If you want to know where this slippery slope leads, take a look at the Middle East. There you will see people getting hands, feet, legs and arms cut off for committing crimes. People flogged in public until they bleed. Horrific revenge style 'justice' based on eye for an eye.

I agree that this man is a bastard who deserves a stiff penalty for his crime. But no human deserves to be tortured for what they have done.
 
  by: ZCT     01/05/2008 11:30 PM     
  So what would you do to make this guy stop?  
 
@ZCT.

How many times are these men let go after a short time only to do something similar or even worse?
 
  by: captainJane     01/05/2008 11:38 PM     
  @captainJane  
 
I think you and I both know that there is a middle ground between giving him a slap on the wrist, and skinning him alive and rubbing him in salt, as recommended by some of our members.
 
  by: ZCT     01/06/2008 12:40 AM     
  @hulk, cavador, others  
 
What's with all the "bleeding heart" bashing all of a sudden? I'm a bleeding heart, and I want this guy ("Darlanne" -- nice name, macho man) to suffer as well.

OK, I'll toss you a bone -- I do believe that in the effort to protect society from monsters, the justice system doesn't become monsterous itself, because it represents us, and we're not monsters, right? I mean, it's all good and well to wish this guy maximum pain and harm, but I'd hope that a decent person wouldn't actually be able to do it.
 
  by: l´anglais     01/06/2008 12:50 AM     
  @^%%#@^!!!!  
 
I have an 18 month old. This makes me want to puke. I am almost crying thinking about this crime.

This guy won't make it 1 year in the slammer.
 
  by: theironboard     01/06/2008 01:35 AM     
  @^%%#@^!!!!  
 
I have an 18 month old. This makes me want to puke. I am almost crying thinking about this crime.

This guy won't make it 1 year in the slammer.
 
  by: theironboard     01/06/2008 01:35 AM     
  I struggle  
 
to accept that any of this was to "stop the baby from crying" - you don't just have hot oil on hand, and most people keep their hair dryers in either the master bedroom or the bathroom.

This means that both acts had to have a degree of premeditation to them. It sounds more likely that the man wanted to torture the child, and used the crying as his excuse when he got caught.
 
  by: SoshiMaster   01/06/2008 02:20 AM     
  Sick, sick, sick...  
 
I think everyone here agrees: This guy is a sick f**k. If that is the case I'm sure and didn't get on his knees one morning and asked God to become a sick f**k. How can we pretend we are better than him when we want to do the same thing to him ? I am appaled by this story. I am also appaled by some of the comments. I'm not sure if this guy can be treated or not. But I'm pretty sure violence isn't the answer.
 
  by: konfucius   01/06/2008 01:00 PM     
  Punishment is not the answer.  
 
No amount of punishment will ever stop people from doing horrible things (as we can see in our current justice system). It may be best to remember that people who commit these acts are already tormented. If they were not already hurting, they would likely not hurt someone else. These horrible acts they commit are cries for help, not punishment.

“All in all, punishment hardens and renders people more insensible; it concentrates; it increases the feeling of estrangement; it strengthens the power of resistance.”
-Friedrich Nietzsche

God I wish they taught this stuff in school.
 
  by: QuestioningAnswers   01/06/2008 03:46 PM     
  @QuestioningAnswers  
 
You are completely right.

Take a look at the backwards countries around the world. The ones that chop off your hands or feet. The ones that flog people in the streets. The ones that torture prisoners.

The common denominator with all of these countries is that crime still happens. No matter how horrible the punishment, people still commit crime.

Here in America, the homicide rate in states that have a death penalty is generally a little higher than states that don't kill people.

Crime is a lot more of a complicated social problem than simply dreaming up elaborate ways to punish people.
 
  by: ZCT     01/06/2008 04:41 PM     
  What a sicko  
 
How sick is this guy. I say do the same to him so he can see what sort of
pain he caused that poor little boy
 
  by: ros66   01/07/2008 04:56 AM     
  @QuestioningAnswers, @ ZCT  
 
Mebbe so, but remember this: If you mess with a child or grandchild of mine, there will be a HEAVY price to be paid, ending with your horific death. Count on it.

I'm not going to wait for cops that "didn't see it, I wasn't there" and won;t even arrest the perp.

I am not going to wait for some Kangaroo Court to not do anything.

I will come for you.

You won't like it. Guaran-Goddam-Teed.
 
  by: LeePIII   01/07/2008 06:08 PM     
  @Mberg  
 
No, it is not just ego.

It is getting even.

"Getting Even" has fallen into disfavor amongst some. However, "getting even" mean that there will be room on the planet for the innocent, and not the evil ones. There will be a garden where folks can grow and pursue their lives without so much fear. One down, some to go.

I begrudge the very air that this devil breathes. Someone nice could have it. There is not enough food to go around in the world anyway.

And if you even think about it a little bit, that is what socialization, the law and a lot of other civil concepts are about.

Unfortunately, sometimes the Law is an Ass. Things don't always work out quite right, even in egregious cases. If you read the Declaration of Independence, you'll find that I am not the first one to think such a thing.

Maybe it will not set things to rights for the victim. As you point out. But, the individual cheater will not get to keep his game points for his unlawful, immoral action. In fact, he should have all points taken away from him, and made unbelievably miserable or the rest of his life, as well, however short that may be. Moreover, anyone who even KNOWS about such a fate may be a little more reluctant to performs similar depradations. Maybe not. If not, I don't believe in punishing an entire population for the actions of the depraved. And keeping a pervert like that alive is punishment for the rest of us.

Listen, we often have a lot of ships going to WestPac. Bale these perps up in a fetal position with baling wire, load them onto the fantail of some outgoing Navy ship, and three days out of port, tip them off the fantail with the rest of the garbage. At least the seagulls and the fish will get some good out of it. If by some mischance, the perv/perv gets home alive by smimming unassisted, he's home free! Any boats that try to follow or help the criminal should be blown out of the water.

As it happens, I am not speaking about victimless crimes, crimes of property, tax crimes, crimes against cops. I am talking about crimes against someone who is not only helpless (an infant, and to a lesser degree, an aged one), but who is completely and totally innocent as well (in the case of a child). A pox (such as Ebola) on the perpetrators. Of course, setting Ebola loose on a perp to inflict pain and suffering might well backfire and spread to innocents, and that would be bad.

I hope it is someone like YOU who becomes the next victim, if there must be another (and I hope there is NOT!) so we can see how YOU handle it in a way that preserves the most for the innocent people of the world, and leave the perpetrators in the dark.


How can you truly treat perpetrators of this type like Cain (of Abel and Cain fame)? Mark him, set him free, so as to completely ostracize him? Think he will not continue his depradations? Think again....
 
  by: LeePIII   01/07/2008 06:31 PM     
  haha  
 
Bombast! Sturm und Drang! Chest-thumping! Poop-throwing!
 
  by: l´anglais     01/07/2008 06:51 PM     
  @LeePIII  
 
Thanks so much for the threat. Up until this point I was planning on coming over and torturing your children. But now that you've said this, I'll be a model citizen.

Seriously, you are just advocating revenge and vigilantism. If everyone took that kind of attitude and followed through with it, we'd have a lawless society and we'd be back in the dark ages.
 
  by: ZCT     01/07/2008 07:27 PM     
  Oh NO, I meant prejudice  
 
from Wiki

Terminate with extreme prejudice is a euphemism (playing on the western expression "termination with prejudice" of an employment contract) used by Bernard Conners in his 1972 novel Don't Embarrass the Bureau[1]. In a military context it is generally understood as an order to assassinate. Since the novel, the term has been used in other literature in a similar context, particularly in the 1979 film Apocalypse Now, in which Martin Sheen's character, Captain Willard, is ordered to terminate "the command" of the insane Colonel Kurtz (Marlon Brando) with "extreme prejudice."
 
  by: crosimoto     01/07/2008 07:52 PM     
  @ZCT  
 
You sound like that's a BAD thing.

The Law is failing miserably. This is not just an isolated incident. Recidivism is over 80% for violent crimes.

Maybe you are prepared to submit to it. I am not.

Perhaps you are one of those who do not believe in free will. That enough government can fix anything. Following your path, perps will continue their depredations unchecked. Admittedly, no one can stop it completely. Plato observed that the only men who have seen the end of war are dead. So, perhaps we are blessed with violence to a degree.

Frankly, I believe there is a time and place for everything, including occasional vigilantism. Vigilantes cleaned up the mess in San Francisco [where they got their name] for a while, and totally changed the character of State government, which is now just a little more responsive to the needs of people as a result.

Vigilantes formed the United States, like it or not.

If you believe for a second that the Muslim Terrorists will give you any quarter on account of your views, perhaps you should move to the front lines, to show the world how it really is.

Sticking flowers in their bomb vests, saying "wouldn't it be nice if they threw a terror bombing, and no one came" isn't going to get it. Not at all.
 
  by: LeePIII   01/07/2008 08:46 PM     
  @LeePIII 1/2  
 
“You sound like that's a BAD thing.”

- Vigilantism, taking the law into your own hands, revenge killings and torture. Show me one country where that has worked out well for the citizens.


“The Law is failing miserably. This is not just an isolated incident. Recidivism is over 80% for violent crimes.”

- It’s sad. We hear so much these days about what CAN’T be done. How the government will inevitably fail. How sad that so many people in this country has so little faith in their leaders, politicians, government or anything else. Perhaps the solution is to fix these things, not simply advocate anarchy and an eye for an eye mentality.


“Maybe you are prepared to submit to it. I am not.”

- I like to believe that America is better than you imply. I like to believe that if enough people educate themselves, we can have a better future where government works. And we the people can demand that this happen.

Clearly from your writing you don’t have any formal education in the area of criminal justice. But you point to the issue that violent crime is a cycle. We put people in jail, we throw them back out onto the streets, and they offend again. Imagine that.
 
  by: ZCT     01/08/2008 05:53 AM     
  @LeePIII 2/2  
 
If you actually look at other countries around the world, you will find that the ones that have this problem licked are countries who actually are pretty humane with their prisoners. They educate them, treat them like humans, rehabilitate them, and finally release them with assistance to get jobs, housing and the ability to become a valuable contributor to society. Some of the most liberal European nations have reoffend rates below 10%, some as low as 5% or less.

People like you with your macho talk about revenge and cracking down and ruling with an iron fist, ignore the fact that all the evidence shows that this approach leads to higher reoffend rates. This means that by treating prisoners badly we are actually not protecting society but we are creating future victims of violent crime.

In America, once you get a felony conviction, you are stripped of your rights forever. You can never get any kind of decent job; you face a life of discrimination and little help to get back on your feet. Now you might argue that such felons deserve this lifelong punishment. But the problem is, if that felon reoffends because they have no other options in life, they have created another victim of crime. So your wonderful harsh approach that has been proven not to work has now just created another victim. A victim that may not have had to suffer, had we just taken the time to try and fix the problem rather than aim for lifelong retribution.

Before you repost, I invite you to really research this topic, and consider the facts of life rather than just spouting your tough on crime rhetoric that has proven so ineffective thus far.
 
  by: ZCT     01/08/2008 05:53 AM     
  @ZCT  
 
1. It worked out just fine, for the framers of the Constitution, and the signatories to the Declaration of Independence. Vigilantes is what they were, and heroes is what they are.

2. It worked well -too well, in the eyes of the government- in San Francisco, where the origination of the term "vigilantes" (Committee of Vigilance) occured. Denial is more than a river in Egypt.

3. If education reveals to you that being "nice" to these poor fellas is the best thing to do, then your education is woefully deficient. That is a definition.

4. The most obvious means of preventing recidivism is the death penalty. That particular individual so sanctioned will never hurt anyone ever again. No second chances.

5. Hurt my descendants at your peril.
 
  by: LeePIII   01/08/2008 09:04 PM     
  @ZCT 2/2  
 

You're walking down a deserted street with your wife and two small children. Suddenly, an Islamic Terrorist with a huge knife comes around the corner, locks eyes with you, screams obscenities, praises Allah, raises the knife, and charges at you. You are carrying a Glock cal 40, and you are an expert shot. You have mere seconds before he reaches you and your family. What do you do?


Liberal's Answer:

Well, that's not enough information to answer the question!
Does the man look poor or oppressed?
Have I ever done anything to him that would inspire him to attack?
Could we run away?
What does my wife think?
What about the kids?
Could I possibly swing the gun like a club and knock the knife out of his hand? What does the law say about this situation?
Does the Glock have appropriate safety built into it?
Why am I carrying a loaded gun anyway, and what kind of message does this send to society and to my children?
Is it possible he'd be happy with just killing me?
Does he definitely want to kill me, or would he be content just to wound me?
If I were to grab his knees and hold on, could my family get away while he was stabbing me?
Should I call 9-1-1?
Why is this street so deserted?
We need to raise taxes, have paint and weed day and make this a happier, healthier street that would discourage such behavior.
This is all s o conf using! I need to debate this with some friends for few days and try to come to a consensus.


...............................................................
Sensible Answer:

BANG!
..............................................................

Redneck Answer:

BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!

BANG! Click..... (Sounds of reloading)

BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!

BANG! Click

Daughter: "Nice grouping, Daddy! Were those the Winchester Silver Tips or Hollow Points?"

Son: "Can I shoot the next one!"

Wife: "You ain't taking that to the Taxidermist!"

As George Wallace once mentioned, "We don't care if our neck is red. We want the federal government to get off of it"


The really nice thing about this country, is that everyone is entitled to their opinion, no matter how stupid it is.
====================================
By the way, I'd be interested to see your comments about the story where the related 12 year old babysitter killed his charge with a baseball bat for interfering with his otherwise quiet enjoyment of his entertainment.
 
  by: LeePIII   01/08/2008 09:19 PM     
  @LeePIII  
 
“1. It worked out just fine, for the framers of the Constitution, and the signatories to the Declaration of Independence. Vigilantes is what they were, and heroes is what they are.”

- And how many years ago was that? Around the time they used to burn women at the stake for being witches? Seriously, life moves on, things change. Harping on about some bygone era like it was perfect, when it clearly wasn’t is just ludicrous.

“2. It worked well -too well, in the eyes of the government- in San Francisco, where the origination of the term "vigilantes" (Committee of Vigilance) occured. Denial is more than a river in Egypt.”

- Sorry, but that’s just nonsense. You are advocating a lawless society again where random people appoint themselves judge, jury and executioner. As protective as you are over your family, I’m sure you wouldn’t want one of your relatives shot as they reach into their pocket for a comb because some self appointed vigilante decided he/she was reaching for a knife.

“3. If education reveals to you that being "nice" to these poor fellas is the best thing to do, then your education is woefully deficient. That is a definition.”

- I’m telling you to look up the facts. As a general rule, the more harsh and inhumane the treatment of criminals, the worse the problems in society. Take a look at the criminal justice system in Scandinavia for example. By American standards, they are crazy liberal. Yet repeat offenders are few and far between. For that matter, their initial violent offense rate is lower too.

“4. The most obvious means of preventing recidivism is the death penalty. That particular individual so sanctioned will never hurt anyone ever again. No second chances.”

- I think this just about sums up your mentality. Kill anyone you (or someone like you) decides is guilty. Keep killing these kinds of people and eventually crime will cease.

In your mind, I can see how this may seem so logical. But in reality it flies in the face of any real life study or raw crime data taken anywhere. You can’t really argue something like this without any corroborating information other than what you think might happen in this fantasy world you have created.

You yourself have already stated that the legal system is failing horribly. Mistakes are made. Your solution is to keep killing people and hope that the problem corrects itself. Sorry, but I don’t trust a flawed system to go around killing people at the ridiculous rates you are suggesting.
 
  by: ZCT     01/08/2008 09:41 PM     
  @ZCT - last one. You weary me.  
 
“1. It worked out just fine, for the framers of the Constitution, and the signatories to the Declaration of Independence. Vigilantes is what they were, and heroes is what they are.”

- And how many years ago was that? Around the time they used to burn women at the stake for being witches?
==========================
No, Cotton Mather and his crowd were before that. Nontheless, people got tired of his governance, and ended it. And make no mistake, He represented government as it was then. It took vigilantes to change that.
===============================

Seriously, life moves on, things change. Harping on about some bygone era like it was perfect, when it clearly wasn’t is just ludicrous.
============================
So, it is OK for you to bring up witches, but not me? Heh. The Constitution and Declaration of Independence are products of a bygone era, eh? Then so are all laws from England, Rome, and Hammarabi. So is every law not written in whatever you might come up with as the "current era".
===============================

“2. It worked well -too well, in the eyes of the government- in San Francisco, where the origination of the term "vigilantes" (Committee of Vigilance) occured. Denial is more than a river in Egypt.”

- Sorry, but that’s just nonsense.
=====================
Not at all. In fact, it was a frightened GOVERMENT which coined the term. What is nonsense is your steadfast adherance to concepts which are failures from every aspect.
======================
You are advocating a lawless society again where random people appoint themselves judge, jury and executioner.
=========================
Again, not at all.If you look carefully, it is legally possible to convene a court in some circumstances which is not necessarily government sanctioned. I don't suppose you think much of that, though. Also there is jury nullification, which maybe you also don't think much of.
==========================
As protective as you are over your family, I’m sure you wouldn’t want one of your relatives shot as they reach into their pocket for a comb because some self appointed vigilante decided he/she was reaching for a knife.
============================
People are much more respectful -a polite society- when it is not clear which individuals are armed. You get a lot further in this life with a kind word, a smile, and a gun in your hand than you do with just a kid word and a smile. Otherwise there would be no mention of force (armies, navies, militia, defense) in the Constitution.

There are over 40,000 deaths each year in the US caused involving automobiles. THere are about 1500 deaths each year resulting from encounters with guns. Some of these encounters are accidental, or criminal, but by no means a majority. Even health professional errors cause more deaths than guns. I'll cheerfully take my chances with an armed populace.
================================


“3. If education reveals to you that being "nice" to these poor fellas is the best thing to do, then your education is woefully deficient. That is a definition.”

- I’m telling you to look up the facts.
==================================
Your distortions do not constitute facts.
==================================
As a general rule, the more harsh and inhumane the treatment of criminals, the worse the problems in society. Take a look at the criminal justice system in Scandinavia for example. By American standards, they are crazy liberal. Yet repeat offenders are few and far between. For that matter, their initial violent offense rate is lower too.
==================================
This ain't Sweden, THANK GOD. If you think they do it better there, why not learn Swedish, and go there? Don't let the door hit you in the a$$ on the way out, please.
===================================

“4. The most obvious means of preventing recidivism is the death penalty. That particular individual so sanctioned will never hurt anyone ever again. No second chances.”

- I think this just about sums up your mentality.
==============================
This is the first thing you've gotten right so far.
===============================
Kill anyone you (or someone like you) decides is guilty.
=================
Or a jury, eh?
==================
Keep killing these kinds of people and eventually crime will cease.
==============================
That particular individual will not commit any more crimes, and that's all I care about. You appear to be assuming I am trying to modify behavior throughout the population, by manip-ulating a single incident. I am not/do not. I want only to permanently modify a single individual. One at a time.
================================


In your mind, I can see how this may seem so logical.
==============================
I really doubt you can see in my mind. If you could, you could never hope to understand it, since it is far beyond your comprehension, evidently.
=============================
 
  by: LeePIII   01/08/2008 10:48 PM     
  @LeePIII  
 
“There are over 40,000 deaths each year in the US caused involving automobiles. THere are about 1500 deaths each year resulting from encounters with guns. Some of these encounters are accidental, or criminal, but by no means a majority. Even health professional errors cause more deaths than guns. I'll cheerfully take my chances with an armed populace.”
- I’ve ignored much of your nonsense, but I think this really highlights the depth of your ignorance in this issue. You have a set of incorrect information, together with your personal bias, and maybe a smattering of Fox News and you think you know what is going on.
Here’s a reality check. According to government figures in 2005, 8,478 people were murdered with hand guns in the United States. A further 2,868 were killed with other kinds of gun. Another 5,000 or so people were killed in other ways. So please don’t just use lies to make your point. If you have a real study or set of data to show, please, provide the link. Otherwise it is just you, off on a rant, with random made up numbers to support your argument for killing lots of people.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/...

“Your distortions do not constitute facts.”

- Of the two of us, it is clear that only one of us has elected to actually research the facts. So I don’t think you are in any position to refer to reality as a distortion, although this may help some of your delusions. It doesn’t make them any more real though, to anyone except yourself.

“This ain't Sweden, THANK GOD. If you think they do it better there, why not learn Swedish, and go there? Don't let the door hit you in the a$$ on the way out, please.”

- This is truly the height of ignorance and arrogance. Let us not compare ourselves to any other nation and let’s keep waving that foam finger in the air and shouting we’re number one. Even when it’s not true anymore. Even when other countries are kicking our ass in literacy, education, crime statistics, murder, longevity, infant mortality, poverty, health care, quality of life and so on. Let’s just ignore the facts, and tell anyone that wants to argue for bettering ourselves to get the hell out and go live somewhere else.

If we never self analyze and never consider that we might be able to improve ourselves, we really will never improve. America may be a great country, but arguing for a lack of positive change, arguing for no effort to improve is simply a foolish outlook on life.

“I really doubt you can see in my mind. If you could, you could never hope to understand it, since it is far beyond your comprehension, evidently.”

- Oh yes. The depths of your complex world view are quite beyond me. That’s the issue here. Not just a weird guy spouting invented statistics to corroborate his obscure world view, which has little to no basis in reality.
Here’s the thing. I have no problem with discussing and debating reality, but for some unknown reason you have stepped off the path of reality and are really just flailing around spouting various personal beliefs about the way life is. You have provided no evidence to support your opinions, and those statistics you chose to share were simply made up. So how about next time, you discuss your opinions with real data to demonstrate you are something other than a weird guy who wants to shoot fictitious people who threaten your family.
 
  by: ZCT     01/09/2008 07:56 AM     
  LePill  
 
That’s just fine. You’re entitled to do anything you want. Revenge not only would hurt the perpetrator, but yourself as well. Recent studies have shown that forgiveness is the only healthy response in situations where a person could take revenge.

A vengeful mindset causes the body stress and stress causes ill health. Not to mention the additional revenge that the perpetrator’s family may take on you. It may be best to note that if we’re going to partake in revenge, we might as well prepare for our own undoing as well.

“Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves.”
- Confucius

All in all, vengeance is the opposite of happiness. Isn’t happiness what everyone is striving for anyway? If we want to be happy, we probably want to stay as far away as possible from a vengeful attitude. The past can't ever be changed, so what then can vengeance do to make it better? Bring to the surface the evil that resides within, thereby waking it in others as well? How is a never ending chain of evil a good idea again?

Only for one reason that I can see. To show us what not to do.
 
  by: QuestioningAnswers   01/11/2008 02:19 AM     
 
 
Copyright ©2018 ShortNews GmbH & Co. KG, Contact: info@shortnews.com