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01/08/2008 05:01 PM ID: 67542 Permalink   

SWAT Kidnaps 11-Year-Old from Parents

 

After his 11 yr old son hit his head on the pavement Tom Shiflett, a former military paramedic in Viet Nam, keep a close eye on his child and was satisfied with his condition. Not so the nosy neighbors who called paramedics.

Paramedics arrived on the scene and examined the child and found nothing wrong but wanted to take him to the hospital anyway. Tom refused fearing the bill. Apparently one of the paramedics took exception to this and called the sheriffs office.

The Sheriffs office got a warrant and the SWAT team attacked the home guns drawn and absconded with his son. The Sheriff says it was justified because Tom is a “self –proclaimed Constitutionalist.” Tom is suing everyone including the Judge.

 
  Source: wnd.com  
    WebReporter: Valkyrie123 Show Calling Card      
  Recommendation:  
ASSESS this news: BLOCK this news. Reason:
   
  33 Comments
  
  Much more at the source  
 
I used to live in Colo and I am not in the least bit surprises by this. Par for the course. Social Services in Colo has assumed God power. Law enforcement is running amuck. One of the reasons I left.
 
  by: Valkyrie123     01/08/2008 05:06 PM     
  Hmmm  
 
Not sure if the law enforcement officers are at fault here.

Police told the paramedic to bugger off, Sheriff responded when he received a court order.
Judge shouldnt have given it, Paramedic shouldnt have asked, no one will get blamed.
 
  by: AnsweringQuestions     01/08/2008 05:30 PM     
  Say what?  
 
So the Sheriff couldnt have paid a visit to see what the situation really was and have talk with the guy ... Oh yea, thats right, they woulda probably just tazered the guy and possibly the child anyways.

Are paramedics on commission based pay now or did the guy have shares in the hospital?

I landed on my head as a child a lot, as you can prolly tell from some of my ramblings, but as long as the bruise came out the way etc. no one really bothered about it, least of all me ... My 'guardians' were probably more bothered about it and applied common sense. The only time I was taken to hospital for a head wound was when someone planted a brick on it, it needed a few stitches and I got zero mainly because I protested so whoever it was that took me (probably my gran or my mother) told them not to bother then cus the bleeding had stopped and they were going to have to fight with me to attempt it, yes always been stubborn.

Come to think about it in total Ive need at least 18 stitches and had none ... see ... rambling again.
 
  by: AccessG     01/08/2008 05:34 PM     
  need the feel to make it real  
   
  by: allbets     01/08/2008 05:42 PM     
  @Access  
 
"So the Sheriff couldnt have paid a visit to see what the situation really was and have talk with the guy"

From my understanding, no.

Had the paramedic phoned the sheriff, the sheriff could have done done so, but he was ordered by the judge to take the child from the family, and had little choice but to do so.

His "The Sheriff says it was justified because Tom is a “self –proclaimed Constitutionalist”" comment may point the other way though.
 
  by: AnsweringQuestions     01/08/2008 05:45 PM     
  Hmm  
 
Confused again... "self –proclaimed Constitutionalist" as a reason to take someone's child away at gun-point? So the constitution is bad in America now then? I'm sure if enough people wanted rid of it they could get rid?
 
  by: Maxx20     01/08/2008 05:52 PM     
  Sigh.....  
 
I seem to be doing that a lot recently. Another tax hike for people in Colorado to pay for the settlement this guy will get, all because some ambulance guys decided they knew better than the father, even after examining the boy. Its not like this kid had blood spurting from his face.

Even in the worst case condition, the SWAT should never have responded. A knock at the door and a "I'm sorry sir, this is outrageous, but I have to take your son to the hospital. Heres a number to call to start getting the order revoked." And at least the insanity would've been kept to suing the ambulance guys and maybe the judge.

Watch the hospital try to slap them with a bill. Being ordered to pay for a service you specifically said you didn't want is still a felony I believe.
 
  by: brinlong     01/08/2008 06:07 PM     
  @AQ  
 
Just read the source, seems the Sheriff did do the right thing and sent officers 'just because he had to' and social services took it further using the paramedics account, though I'm still unsure why SWAT was used since he was only ordered to take the child ... unless of course the Sheriff used SWAT to publicise this, it may have been a tactical move by the Sheriff to blow it out of proportion on purpose to highlight this exact sort of crap.

He gave the magistrate exactly what he wanted and the press a story.

To me the real problem seems to be that they went over the top with someone who was capable and I only hope they havent left an overcast for magistrates to be more reserved in the future when a child really is in danger. In saying that though they thought the child was in danger and it took them 24hrs to get the ball rolling.
 
  by: AccessG     01/08/2008 06:19 PM     
  “self –proclaimed Constitutionalist”  
 
I believe “self –proclaimed Constitutionalist” is suppose to be interpreted as "the guy owns A LOT of guns"
 
  by: bane39   01/08/2008 10:45 PM     
  Um.. HE was a former  
 
Military Paramedic. Which mean the guys was trained with more then advanced first aid. Now if the guy is capable of making life saving decisions under fire he is MORE then capable of taking care of knock on the noggin of his own 11 year out son.
 
  by: CaveHermit   01/08/2008 11:40 PM     
  In Real terms  
 
1. Son bumps head
2. Neighbours call paramedics
3. Paramedics arrive find nothing wrong with son but a large amount of weaponry
4. Social workers reviewing paramedics report decide child needs to be removed
5. Court so orders
6. Police execute order as obliged and remove son - SWAT used due to the large number of weapons and possibility of armed resistance.

Seems fairly straight forward
Social services needs to keep their noses out.
 
  by: lauriesman     01/09/2008 12:06 AM     
  @Valk  
 
Good job and a misleading title to distort the facts. Your bias taints an otherwise interesting story.

Even with your bias, I would have assumed you to be more intelligent than to use a word like kidnap to describe what happened. Do you work for the Enquirer or some tabloid where titles or headlines sell?? I didn't know you got paid for your submissions and the number of hits, Valk.

Here's some suggestions:
SWAT Team Apprehend Child Under Judges Orders

Judge Orders Injure Child To Apprehended From Military Paramedic

Paramedic Get Judges Order to Apprehend Child from Military Paramedic.



It's also funny that you used the Sherrif's justification for SWAT because the guy was a “self –proclaimed Constitutionalist.” Rather than mentioning the fact that guy has made several threats over the years.

There is an obvious slant to your summary. This story has more to do with an over-zealous paramedic and a judge who sided with him/her. The police were following orders. Police used a SWAT Team but no one was hurt. They were used because they are trained and EQUIPED to go into potentially hazardous places. End of story.
 
  by: steiny_33     01/09/2008 12:17 AM     
  Speaking of bias..  
 
Your 'police can do no wrong' bias is showing.

Source title: SWAT officers invade home, take 11-year-old at gunpoint

I would posit that taking anyone at gunpoint against their will can be considered a kidnapping, with the obvious exception arrests. Yes, the SWAT team was acting on orders, but that doesn't change the fact that they invaded the home and took the child at gunpoint (to use the same words as the source).

Kid-nap: to steal, carry off, or abduct by force or fraud, esp. for use as a hostage or to extract ransom.

@mods

Could you please remove the undeserved bad rating?
 
  by: StarShadow     01/09/2008 12:44 AM     
  @Stein  
 
Frankly, I think Val's title is more apt than any of your suggestions.
 
  by: erasedgod   01/09/2008 12:44 AM     
  Heh  
 
"This story has more to do with an over-zealous paramedic and a judge who sided with him/her."

OK Mr cop now I have an issue with you. The paramedic was doing his job which requires him by the LAW you uphold to call Social Services and the police if there is suspected neglect and abuse. The paramedic may have felt there was a possibility of head trauma and had every right to call. And he can't be sued as long as he honestly felt there was a valid reason.

Now dad being all he is should have made sure the kid went in once he realised that they were concerned. Every state has an insurance program for children so he would not have been charged. It sounds like dad and the sheriff wanted to have a whos is bigger contest in the end.

Everyone knows that if one bad sniff of a cop story comes out you jump on it but please do not try and place blame on someone that was actually following the law that again you are supposed to uphold.

 
  by: TaraB     01/09/2008 04:28 AM     
  @Tara  
 
"paramedic was doing his job which requires him by the LAW you uphold to call Social Services and the police if there is suspected neglect and abuse."

And what made him suspect neglect or abuse?
The kid fell over, banged his head and got up, with normal mental faculties intact.
 
  by: AnsweringQuestions     01/09/2008 12:17 PM     
  @Star  
 
I expected you to come out of the wood work too.

Definition of Kidnap:
To seize and detain unlawfully and usually for ransom.

Nothing unlawful and definitely not for ransom.

Yes. You are correct about the Source title: SWAT officers invade home, take 11-year-old at gunpoint

It doesn't say kidnap so I don't know what your point is??? I think you're losing it.
 
  by: steiny_33     01/09/2008 01:37 PM     
  @Tara  
 
Seeing as you work in the medical field, you judgement is clouded.

I wasn't criticizing the paramedic. The story is about the actions of the paramedic. There is a slant to this story about paramedics too. My point was that the paramedic got the ball rolling and the paramedic pushed for this. The paramedic was the reason for the judges order ever being issued.

So don't get your panties in a bunch because you are still pissed from our passed. We can start it up again if you want?!?!

Do you recall the time that I posted about 4 or 5 news stories in one day about nurses committing atrocious acts? Valks slant is always apparent and I was calling her out on that.

I hope the Cop comment was sarcastic. Or you are delusional.

I stick for emergency personnel, military,etc when it's warranted.
 
  by: steiny_33     01/09/2008 01:50 PM     
  @stein  
 
the lawfulness of the act is yet to be determined. Unless you are saying that everything a magistrate does is legal?
 
  by: jendres     01/10/2008 12:44 AM     
  Steiny  
 
Seeing as you are a cop your judgement on anything to do with law enforcement is clouded on this site when it comes to police being involved. And I can tell you I am not the only one that sees this. Even you have to report any suspected neglect and abuse being in the field you are so WTH does my saying the paramedic is safe from a lawsuit as long as he was honest in his concern clouded? You are the one that said that the paramedic was over-zealous. He is still protected by the law even if that was so.

"So don't get your panties in a bunch because you are still pissed from our passed. We can start it up again if you want?!?!

Do you recall the time that I posted about 4 or 5 news stories in one day about nurses committing atrocious acts? Valks slant is always apparent and I was calling her out on that."

Our passed (you mean past?) Why would I be pissed? If I remember right you got your thong in a bunch when I posted a story about a bad cop (which there are some as in any field BTW.) So you are saying you went and found stories of nurses that were corrupt and inept as getting back at me? Im sorry but I have to laugh at that for a few reasons. #1 I never have claimed that all nurses are good and can do no wrong unlike your blue line that is towed so tight. #2 None of the stories are about me or my workplace so I am not affected by stories of shitty nurses other than that some exist.

I really think you need some anger management courses if you think that you are "getting back" at someone for posting on the internet about their opinions of a story. I do remember you offering my husband and I to come see you which I thought was funny at the time but now I really wonder about your competance as an officer of the law.

I often complain on here that cops get a bad name but with what you say and do I can see why some think this way. I only hope that the citizens you protect do not have to deal with your anger and that you get the Psych Eval and help that is so dearly needed.

Feel free to post all the evil nurses in the world and show them for what they are, maybe we will get rid of them from our field.
 
  by: TaraB     01/10/2008 04:23 AM     
  @AQ  
 
"And what made him suspect neglect or abuse?"

I can't tell you what made him think that as I wasn't there. He could have seen a bruise or cut, he may have been worried about a concussion. If the father refused to let them check him out that in itself could worry them. As long as the paramedic had a true concern he had a duty to report it. Once social services got involved if the dad still refused to let the son be seen that would prompt a court order. You and any other member of the community can also call Social services and file a complaint without fear of being sued if you honestly think something is wrong. Most states have a Good Samaritan law.

"The kid fell over, banged his head and got up, with normal mental faculties intact."

Yes thankfully, but what if the story had come out that the child had head trauma and no one paid attention to it? We would all be jumping on the dad. I would personally have had a CT of my child's head if they slammed it on the sidewalk because we can not see everything that might be wrong.

Personally I think the whole thing went south when the Sherrif and the guy who have had issues clashed. Yes the SWAT called in was extreme but how hard is it to take your kid in for a CT to make sure everything is ok? If it was only money like I said there are programs to insure children are seen for medical care.
 
  by: TaraB     01/10/2008 04:32 AM     
  I find this amusing…  
 
The channel trolls are so anxious to attack and abuse other users and me the poster of this story that they seem to have overlooked the source. The news service this story comes from is one of, if not the most, bias, hard core, right wing, extremist organizations I have ever seen. It shouldn’t even be allowed to be used as a source and I am the one that wrote this article. Yes, in their zeal to insult and disrespect other users our trolls have completely overlooked this fact. I guess this outs our trolls to the world. They try to be conservative right wing pundits but end up looking like fools.

Our channel policeman has outted himself with his admission of posting articles with the express purpose of insulting and demeaning another user. Naughty boy. Are we supposed to look to you as an example of what to expect from our policemen? To Serve and Protect….who? You should be banned from the channel by this admission and your supervisor at work should be made aware of your attitude towards others.

Empathy, put yourself in the parent’s shoes…
You are a law abiding citizen and parent. You are sitting in your living room watching TV with the family when all of the sudden SWAT smashes your door down and charges in with guns drawn. They throw you to the floor, handcuff you and have guns in your children’s faces. They grab your son and take him to who knows where. You did nothing wrong, nothing to warrant this kind of abuse, you committed no crime.

How would you feel? Do you think, as a law abiding citizens, you and your children should be treated this way?

I feel SWAT needs to change their name to KGB. The entire bunch needs some prison time. Land of the free my A$$!

We really need to fear those “Constitutionalists”, they are rebel scum, out to overthrow the Empire. We can count among their numbers other rebel scum like George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin and John Hancock. I’m sure glad I’m not a Constitutionalist rebel scum. Serves this guy right for believing he actually has “rights” in Nazi Amreika.

 
  by: Valkyrie123     01/10/2008 05:03 PM     
  Jesus...  
 
Jesus... What a mess. Unfortunately, I understand all sides.

I understand why the medics wanted the son taken to the hospital, I understand why the police were involved but good lord, talk about OVER KILL...

I guess if I had to pick a side here, I would say the family should sue.

I think the police could have handled this differently.

Really bothers me when they send it SWAT because someone owns some guns. Whoop doo.. I sleep with a GLOCK in my night stand an AR-15 in my closest just like half of the rest of the people in this country. I'm sure if the police ever wanted to talk to me, they would raid my house too.

It's just so sad what this country is turning into. The second amendment was a founding principal of this country and now days if you own guns, your a bad person by default.

I think the Sherriff should have knocked first, told them why they were there then taken it from there. Just the sight of SWAT outside and the warrant might have been enough for compliance. Don't get me wrong, I don't think the warrant should have been issued but it could have been handled better once it was.
 
  by: Corwin Killroy   01/10/2008 08:28 PM     
  A Constitutionalist?  
 
Damn! We gotta get these guys off the street! The Constitution is incredibly dangerous in the wrong hands. Only 'lawyers' and 'policemen' should be allowed to read it. Let's cage up these 'gun nuts'. (Obama BenLadin destroyed the WTC towers; end of story).
 
  by: IWMCB   01/11/2008 04:07 AM     
  @valk @tara  
 
Umm. You both are delusional. I'm impressed that you think you know what i do for a living. I'm glad you aren't cops because it shows you don't have a clue about facts and base your assumptions on your unsubstantiated bias.

In fact, Valk, you have even stated that by my own admission I was a cop. Ummm. Where? I'm not even in an emergency services field. That's how your bias has really warped your brain. Good job.

I'm not going to waste my time responding to your comments.
 
  by: steiny_33     01/11/2008 11:44 PM     
  @steiny  
 
careful use of words there. I remember you stating that you _were_ a cop. In the past perhaps.
 
  by: jendres     01/12/2008 11:51 AM     
  @valk  
 
Who are you to be saying who should do what, and who can say what, and how anyone can behave?

Your bias is showing you over-armed gun-toting constitutionalist!
 
  by: SoshiMaster   01/12/2008 12:44 PM     
  @Steiny  
 
"Umm. You both are delusional. I'm impressed that you think you know what i do for a living. I'm glad you aren't cops because it shows you don't have a clue about facts and base your assumptions on your unsubstantiated bias."

Err YOU have stated in the past that you are a cop. Even got pissy with me for posting a bad cop story and offered me and my husband to meet you in I believe it was Toledo. I'll look it up in a sec and post back.

 
  by: TaraB     01/12/2008 10:42 PM     
  Large Number of weapons...Justification for WHAT??  
 
"Police execute order as obliged and remove son - SWAT used due to the large number of weapons and possibility of armed resistance."

I guess that if you have any old prescription drugs in your medicine chest because you haven't taken all you were given or haven't gotten around to disposing them, that the DEA has the right to kick down your door and charge you with possession of illegal drugs???

I have a large number of firearms in my home, because I am a gun collector, hunter, and recreational/competitive target shooter.

Having guns in the house is not illegal, nor does the presence of any number of legal firearms present probable cause.

Law enforcement was wrong in this case, as was the Judge and the paramedics. I hope this guy takes them to the cleaners.
 
  by: ACRScout   01/13/2008 02:30 AM     
  Ahh  
 
"RE: saying to your face... If you are anywhere near Ogdensburg, NY feel free to pick a spot and I will meet you there. I will gladly meet you and say it to your face. I have nothing to hide. Bring your cop husband to the meeting too if you want.

by: steiny_33 "
http://www.shortnews.com/...

*yawn* Morning
 
  by: TaraB     01/13/2008 11:18 AM     
  @Tara  
 
Erm, he said your husband was a cop, but I didnt ssee him say he was a cop.

I'm so bored, I need to get this work done
 
  by: AnsweringQuestions     01/17/2008 08:56 PM     
  $$$$$  
 
Paramedics arrived on the scene and examined the child and found nothing wrong but wanted to take him to the hospital anyway. Tom refused fearing the bill. Apparently one of the paramedics took exception to this and called the sheriffs office.

Just how much does it cost to get basic medical treatment in the states? Maybe I'm naive living in Australia where get FREE treatment if you need it, but surely even in the U$A you get free emergency treatment?
 
  by: stretchman     01/18/2008 05:42 AM     
  @Stretch  
 
Maybe it was $50?
Maybe he didnt want to spend a day waiting around a hospital for some completly pointless tests?

Am I the only person who didnt go to hospital every time I had a bump?
Christ I've sprained a wrist playing rugby, wrapped it up and gone back out.
A mild knock on the heads nothing
 
  by: AnsweringQuestions     01/18/2008 04:17 PM     
 
 
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