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01/24/2008 01:39 PM ID: 67912 Permalink   

US Forces Kill 9 Police and 2 Civilians in Afghan Raid


US forces have reportedly killed two civilians and 9 Afghan policemen in a raid launched on Thursday which the US claims was against Taliban fighters.

Dr Ismail Ibrahimzai, the head of the local public health department told reporters “Nine police, including an officer, two civilians, one of them a woman, were killed in the raid."

One unnamed policeman said, "All of a sudden the Americans opened fire at us and immediately four policemen were killed including our chief.” Adding "Helicopters then came to the area and fired into buildings."

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The sad part here is, the military teaches the enlistees how to kill.. they dont teach them how to stop. What happens when these yahoos get home?
  by: SubtleCorpze   01/24/2008 02:38 PM     
Ever been in the forces?
  by: AnsweringQuestions     01/24/2008 02:40 PM     
  Same thing that happened in Vietnam  
Or the first saudi conflict. You have a post war syndrome sufferer with flashbacks depression and in severe cases the inhability to disconnect from the conflict. I feel sorry for these guys because they probably didnt feel anything after they found out they killed non-combatants, they are told to kill or be killed so thats what they do. Instead of smarter more sensible weapons the military might want to work on a smarter more sensible soldier, and i dont mean intellectually smarter, better soldiers often comeback alive me thinks.
  by: cafetero   01/24/2008 02:43 PM     
  That's war  
not pretty is it?

Something I heard on 'Eastenders' of all places (UK soap), one of the characters is an ex-soldier. The BBC went pretty close to the line when he had a conversation about if he'd killed people with another character. The thing that stuck with me was "to spend your days killing people, you have to be pretty dead inside yourself" (or words to that effect). Now, I'm guessing that was lifted from an interview or quote from a real soldier because it's a pretty enlightening thing to hear.

So with what cafetero said about them not feeling anything, I'm inclined to agree. Modern army training must do a lot to switch off human emotions, things like Iraq simply wouldn't happen if it didn't.
  by: Maxx20     01/24/2008 03:09 PM     
I disagree

Those I've spoken to were ok with it.

He had a gun, I had a gun, he missed, I didnt.

By your logic parking wardens and debt collectors would all be suicidal...
  by: AnsweringQuestions     01/24/2008 03:20 PM     
No I have not. But I have seen 3 relatives come back from fighting, ( not just from being in the military ) all of them had problems adjusting to "normal" life afterwards. 1 committed suicide because he couldnt handle it.
  by: SubtleCorpze   01/24/2008 03:20 PM     
  Just remember the new bill in congress  
that is supposed to take gun rights away form anyone diagnosed with PTSD.

Cant even go hunting or anything like that because apparently the Federal govt thinks you will be to dangerous.

Take away 2nd amendment rights simply because you had to fight for uncle sam...
  by: slavefortheman     01/24/2008 04:07 PM     
Parking wardens don't kill people last I heard.

It is honestly a piece of valid human psychology, read the following:

We are *not* programmed to kill, the article sums it up nicely with: "In conflict situations the dominance of midbrain processing can be observed in the existence of a powerful resistance to killing one's own kind, a resistance that exists in every healthy member of every species."

Military training f*cks with people's brains leaving them 'missing' bits, this can turn into mental illness and send them loopy or suicidal. This of course comes round to slavefortheman's point. Sociologically it would be wrong to deny 2nd amendment rights to anyone who had fought for their country, however, given the mental damage which has occurred to these individuals, common sense would suggest otherwise. Indeed, the kind of indifference to the suffering or death of another human being that must occur in the forces also happens in sociopaths, where it occurs naturally.
  by: Maxx20     01/24/2008 04:51 PM     
No, but you'd have to be messed up to enjoy that job.

And what a load of rubbish that link is.

It seems to assume that a musket was even a remotly accurate weapon, and that soldiers were expected to hit 4 times a minute.
They were not, they were expected to shoot 4x a minute and scare the other guys off.

"Marshall concluded in his landmark book, Men Against Fire, that only 15 to 20% of the individual riflemen in World War II fired their weapons at an exposed enemy soldier."

Indeed, you shot to keep him in cover so he couldnt shoot back at you.

Humans and chimpanzees are however the only two species where an organised group will attack and kill another.
  by: AnsweringQuestions     01/24/2008 05:03 PM     
That link contains sound psychological discussion and reasoning. Another page describes how killing is 'legitimised':

I shall repeat once again, we aren't wired up to kill each other. Pack mentality does lead to it, but we're talking war here. We're talking people who go out and kill each and every day, that's where we leave the chimps behind on the killing scale, they may do it, but they don't make a living out of it that's for sure.

Destruction of midbrain responses to killing are what is responsible for the effectiveness of modern armies. Again to quote the source:

"But, if you are conditioned to overcome these midbrain inhibitions, then you are a walking time bomb, a pseudo-sociopath, just waiting for the random factors of social interaction and forebrain rationalization to put you in the wrong place at the wrong time."

Do you think the US and UK armies are so effective by accident or something?
  by: Maxx20     01/24/2008 05:18 PM     
Gorilla's also go out in groups and attack one another. There was video footage of it a few years back, quite a few cases infact.
  by: wingedpuma     01/24/2008 05:42 PM     
"Do you think the US and UK armies are so effective by accident or something?"

Nevermind superior technology and logistical intelligence.
  by: Pyronius     01/24/2008 10:49 PM     
"Humans and chimpanzees are however the only two species where an organised group will attack and kill another." forgot ants. :S
  by: rippler2k3   01/24/2008 11:38 PM     
and just another story for us to read, this is just so bad, there is actually people living there that are trying so hard and this is not going to help!
  by: captainJane     01/25/2008 02:56 AM     
  No ones knows exactly what happened  
It might be bad intelligence from a different country or upper command, or perhaps 2 guerrillas fired at them and they knew this was an taliban infested area and opened fire. We really don't know enough information to say that these soldiers were under trained or trigger happy.

Sh*t happens even when the best are in action, too many things going on for something not to go wrong. This does happen sometimes, when allies shoot allies, or 2 units from the same country start firing at each other unknowingly.
  by: slayer06   01/25/2008 05:17 AM     
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