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04/25/2008 10:56 AM ID: 70273 Permalink   

UK Prisons Are Too Comfy For Escape

 

Glyn Travis of the Prison Officer Union claims prisons are so comfortable that inmates do not want to escape as it's too easy to get hold of drugs, mobile phones and even prostitutes

Mr Travis blames a shortage of prison officers, and an abundance of game consoles and TVs. In one instance a dealer used a ladder to break into prison with drugs but at no point did any of the inmates attempt to use the same ladder as a means of escape.

Travis also claims drugs are so rife that they can be bought for less than their equivalent street value. A spokes person for the MOJ has counter argued "The punishment of the court is loss of liberty - harsh regimes do not lead to rehabilitation"

 
  Source: news.bbc.co.uk  
    WebReporter: spacechimp Show Calling Card      
  Recommendation:  
ASSESS this news: BLOCK this news. Reason:
   
  23 Comments
  
  Admin - Help  
 
I'm having a special morning.

Can someone correct the speeling mistake "equiverlent" to "equivalent" for me please?
 
  by: spacechimp     04/25/2008 11:00 AM     
  Eep  
 
I just submitted the same thing, I think you were first though, could someone remove mine please?

Sorry!
 
  by: Maxx20     04/25/2008 11:17 AM     
  Dammit Maxx  
 
I only submitted mine because you'd not already done it :P

Thought you'd missed it

Mine has a spelling mistake. Cann this one :)
 
  by: spacechimp     04/25/2008 11:22 AM     
  Chimp  
 
Nah, couldn't possibly miss this one, saw the story on BBC breakfast before work. Kinda worrying stuff...
 
  by: Maxx20     04/25/2008 11:34 AM     
  Amen fella  
 
I heard it on the radio whilst driving in. Where the hell did we go wrong?

We get up, work all day, go home and have a bedtime because we'll be working the day after and then we give a sizable portion of our wage (directly and indirectly) to the government.

this lot get caught, cost the criminal justice system (and us tax payers) thousands of pounds. Only to be thrown in the nick where they can happily feed their drug habbit, rattle a hooker or 2 after tea, then cap the day off with a bit of Assasins Creed on their play stations!

All I can say is "WOW!! just WOW!!"

What ever happened to prison being a punishment? It's no wonder there's some mad stat that says 60% reoffend

This article is from 2005 and it looks like not much had changed http://www.timesonline.co.uk/...
 
  by: spacechimp     04/25/2008 11:48 AM     
  Max  
 
Me too, That is the second one now!

This is a joke we have heard for sometime now about even the child killers way back having an easy time of it,thinking of it I think I will will break in too that will stop my worry of bills.
 
  by: captainJane     04/25/2008 12:53 PM     
  Fixed  
 
n/t
 
  by: StarShadow     04/25/2008 01:08 PM     
  Has to be said  
 
Their lives sound pretty damned good. I guess there's always the issues the little guys get with being beaten up and used for... well, you know. Other than that, it's like the law of the playground. Just like boarding school I should imagine.
 
  by: Maxx20     04/25/2008 01:55 PM     
  is it not a good thing  
 
that your criminals aren't escaping?
 
  by: jamesmc   04/25/2008 02:33 PM     
  @jamesmc  
 
haha very good point! i was thinking the same. Personally i woule rather the criminals stay there, do wtf they want, but just stay there and not hurt anyone (i.e if they just staying there gettting stoned / taking drugs and playing on their playstations they aint on the streets robbing you n me!)

Of course i do think it is a total piss take that prisons are this soft / comfortable.

Also, was i the only one that LMFAO when i read the "In one instance a dealer used a ladder to break into prison with drugs but at no point did any of the inmates attempt to use the same ladder as a means of escape" sentence?!
 
  by: M4CRO_   04/25/2008 04:17 PM     
  @prison  
 
Bring back the chain gangs.

I remember reading a few years back about a rough and tough take no sh1te prison ran by ex-servicemen but unfortunately the place was shut down because "the inmates didnt like it"
 
  by: wingedpuma     04/25/2008 04:48 PM     
  Good  
 
Sorry, but I have no problem with this.

Anyone who thinks prison is fun, should visit one. Prison is not fun. It is a nasty hell hole. I don't care if they have nice single rooms, games consoles, TV and drugs. I don't even care if they have prostitutes. These people still don't have their freedom.

I also call BS on the concept that the prison is too comfy to escape. The reality is that the prisoners know that if they escape they will be caught (the UK is not a big place to hide), and when they are, they will get years added on to their sentence.

So I think it's great that prisoners are treated well. Because if you treat them harshly they will leave as hardened criminals with a chip on their shoulder, and I then have to live with those people.

Republican idiots that want to bring back chain gangs and flogging prisoners, are just being stupid. As a society we have a share a world with these people once they are released. And I for one would rather meet a gentle rehabilitated former con, as opposed to a violent hardened criminal who hates the world.

Think about it right wingers. It's not that hard if you make an effort.
 
  by: ZCT     04/25/2008 05:23 PM     
  @ZCT  
 
Do you honestly believe they went into prison being soft lullabye singing saints? I'll wait for your head to come out of the clouds.

There are rapists, murderers, commiters of GBH and other violent crimes, gun crimes including robbery, shooting another person etc etc.

I'll give that this doesnt cover everyone but I dont see why my tax money (and I pay tax now) should be spent giving prisoners sh1te that I cant even afford on my wages.
 
  by: wingedpuma     04/25/2008 07:00 PM     
  @wingedpuma  
 
I know it's probably hard to understand all this at your age. Despite being a liberal now, I was quite hard core right wing. In fact when I was about your age I voted against Tony Blair and for the Conservative candidate.

But now that I am older and wiser I have come to realize that I was wrong then, just as you are now.

First off, not all people in jail are bad people. Some people are jailed for fairly innocuous crimes. Jails are not filled with murderers and rapists. That is just a small percentage of them.

But regardless of why they are in jail, you have to accept that one day they will be released. Even murderers will often get out eventually. But certainly minor crimes, people will be out in well under five years.

So we then have to go back to my original point. Do we want to punish these people for five years? Beat them, leave them in solitary, feed them horrible food, refuse them basic rights? Perhaps even put them in a chain gang? Or do we want to treat them with respect and try and rehabilitate them?

The problem is if we pick the former, five years from now our criminal is released into the community, mad at the world, and ready to beat the crap out of someone. That someone could be you.

If we don't give them an education, and tools to improve their lives, they can easily return to a life of crime. Maybe it's your car they steal. But even if it is my car, all our insurance premiums go up to pay for it.

So I am simply arguing that being in jail is a punishment in and of itself. We don't have to devise cruel or unusual ways of keeping people to punish them further. As I've already said, doing that is simply going to hurt society down the road.

As for these so called luxuries. A TV and a games console? We are talking a couple of hundred bucks. And I very much doubt that the tax payer pays for that anyway. It was probably donated used.

And honestly, if you can't afford a TV and a PlayStation on your wages, you are not working hard enough. A brand new TV and PS2 costs less than £150. Used can be well under half of that.

It's a small price to pay if it stops that prisoner from stabbing you as soon as he gets out of jail.
 
  by: ZCT     04/25/2008 08:06 PM     
  From the source:  
 
"There is far too little useful work in prison, but the idea that jails are cushy is blown away by the appalling levels of suicide and self-harm."
 
  by: mousejunkie     04/25/2008 08:44 PM     
  @ZCT  
 
a few things.

If they are going to come out and stab me/ steal my car or whatever then they should not be released in the first place.

Secondly, Im trying hard not to take the comment that im not working hard enough personally but its damn hard. I have only a part time job because as it stands, I spent over 4 hours a day training to join the Royal Marines (as a few of you are aware)

Donated or not, why should those who commit crime be given presents for committing a crime?

Also, Im wrong for not agreeing with your point of view? Interesting concept. That same line of thinking could be said that the allies were wrong for not agreeing with Hitler. Extreme case senario but the point is made.

On a final note, I did say that not everyone was in prison for malicious crimes.

I think that pretty much covers it.
 
  by: wingedpuma     04/25/2008 10:43 PM     
  well  
 
this is pretty simple to say,
if your hard on them in prison who wants to come back?
if your easy on them with VIDEO GAMES and DRUGS then the thought in mind is, well if i go back i got back no big deal not much different from the streets just that im in a building all day.

how does giving people who commited crimes video games and all types of luxories going to make them sit and reflect on the crimes they did and how it was wrong?
please give me a damn break.
 
  by: cray0la     04/26/2008 06:25 AM     
  @cray0la  
 
Okay, so Mr. Smith commits a crime and gets five years in jail.

Under your proposed idea, this man should sit in jail with no luxuries, perhaps in a small empty cell, and think about his crime for five years.

Exactly how will that benefit him or society?

Like I've already explained, having your freedom taken away is a massive punishment in itself.

I live in a nice home, and have all the nice toys. A PS3, big screen TV, Hi Def, four computers, all the cable channels, TiVo, and much more. But if I were made to live in my home and never leave it for five years, that would be a pretty severe punishment.

To believe that putting someone in prison is automatically negated if they have a TV, or an old used games console, really just shows a lack of imagination and ability to understand basic concepts.
 
  by: ZCT     04/26/2008 01:47 PM     
  @wingedpuma  
 
“If they are going to come out and stab me/ steal my car or whatever then they should not be released in the first place.”

- Well then you have to decide if you want to punish them or rehabilitate them. If you give them an extensive and punitive stay inside, and then toss them out into the community, it doesn’t take too much imagination to realize that perhaps they will falter or reoffend once released.

“Secondly, Im trying hard not to take the comment that im not working hard enough personally but its damn hard. I have only a part time job because as it stands, I spent over 4 hours a day training to join the Royal Marines (as a few of you are aware) “

- Well that’s great. I know it’s not easy to do that, as I was good friends with a guy who tried and failed to make it into the Marines. He got as far as going to some camp where they decide who is good enough to get in.

But no one is made to do what you have chosen to do. Your argument that because you are trying to get into the Marines you cannot afford a TV or a PlayStation doesn’t make much sense. It would be like me saying that I really want to become a DJ, so I volunteer at the local radio station. As a result, I cannot afford to buy a PlayStation. Therefore, no one else should have one.

We all make decisions in life and we have to live with those decisions. The fact that you want to be in the Marines, and therefore spend all your time working towards that goal as opposed to earning good money in a well paid job, is simply not relevant to this discussion.

“Donated or not, why should those who commit crime be given presents for committing a crime?”

- On that same logic, why give them soap, or towels, or clothes, or books, or sheets, or a mattress… I mean lock them all in a dark room and let the sleep on the floor.

The reason we need to treat them well, I have already explained to you. If you can’t understand this simple concept, then there’s little I can do for you.

“Also, Im wrong for not agreeing with your point of view? Interesting concept. “

- If you have to invoke the Hitler argument, I put it to you that you must be on very thin ice. It’s usually a last resort when losing an argument.

Let me put it like this. Show me a country that has a history of very basic punitive imprisonment. Show me how that society has benefitted from that kind of criminal justice system. Give me examples and sources. Tell me you really want the UK to model that country.

I have no problem with people who have a different point of view. But if you cannot defend your point of view with facts and logic, then I can’t be all that interested in it.
 
  by: ZCT     04/26/2008 02:00 PM     
  @ZCT  
 
Rehabilitation should not include the luxuries such as a games console (not guarenteed to be old either)

Also, Im not saying that just because I cant afford one, no one else should be allowed one, but the point I am making however is that why should someone who commits CRIME, who arent bettering themselves or society be able to have something that I and Im sure, many others cant afford.

Another thing, your soap argument etc, we're talking about luxuries ffs, not basic human needs.

Ok ZCT, show me how giving them all these luxuries has reduced crime etc, come on... I'll wait, but Ive had enough of replying to this. Your soft ass approach to law and justice is what has totally screwed this country up. Adiós.
 
  by: wingedpuma     04/26/2008 06:06 PM     
  @wingedpuma  
 
Equally, show me how having a PlayStation and a TV in a prison has done anything to hurt the country.

Do you really think when someone is about to commit a crime they say, "Well I'm going to mug this old granny, but if I get caught the jail as a PlayStation in it so it's no big deal..."

If you look at Scandinavian countries they have really liberal prisons. In fact for many jail is basically a small apartment they have to stay in at night. They can do jobs, have pets, you name it. Weirdly, their crime and re-offend rate is lower than the UK.

As for your definition of luxury, I think you are out of touch. There was a time when a radio would be considered a luxury. Would you deny that to prisoners? How about TV? Newspapers? Books? Where do you draw the line? How can you consider a PlayStation which costs less than £100 a luxury?

Anyway we are going back and forth, and it's not going to change anything. It is what it is, and thankfully neither of us runs the jail system in the UK.

The spokesperson for the MOJ said, "The punishment of the court is loss of liberty - harsh regimes do not lead to rehabilitation." I couldn't agree more.
 
  by: ZCT     04/26/2008 09:43 PM     
  Missing the point  
 
"UK Prisons Are Too Comfy For Escape"

"Equally, show me how having a PlayStation and a TV in a prison has done anything to hurt the country."

If criminals prefer being inside jail to out, your giving them an incentive to commit crime.
 
  by: CapitalistPig     04/28/2008 02:00 PM     
  Here is the problem  
 
A sentence to prison is "punishment" for a crime no matter how you look at it. If the prisoners do not want to leave the prison when their sentence is up then the administration isn't doing their job right because the prisoners do not see their time in jail as a "punishment". While I'm not saying take their TV and games away there should be time where the minimum security prisoners have to do stuff janitorial work and cooking under guard supervision. As for the drugs, prisons will always have drug problems, and it's the administrations job to take care of the issue, but most generally it won't go away.

I'm in the states so I don't pay your taxes, and this is just my thoughts on the whole situation.
 
  by: ohioankev   06/08/2008 03:41 AM     
 
 
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