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06/02/2008 10:04 AM ID: 71135 Permalink   

Rocker Neil Young Teams Up With Johnathan Goodwin to Create an Affordable Electric Car


Rock musician Neil Young has teamed up with nationally recognised performance mechanic Johnathan Goodwin with the aim of creating an inexpensive, mass-produced electric car. Young's 1959 Lincoln Continental is being converted as a prototype.

Young indicated that he wants to stop giving away wealth to oil-producing nations. According to Goodwin the technology necessary to accomplish their stated goal has existed for a long time. The pair have already road tested a prototype power system.

"You know, I thought long ago you could change the world by writing songs. But you can't change the world by writing songs... we could change it with this car," said Young.

    WebReporter: ixuzus Show Calling Card      
ASSESS this news: BLOCK this news. Reason:
think their imaginings may come true after not a long time.
  by: vizhatlan     06/02/2008 01:59 PM     
  i think this was posted  
aloooooooong time ago.
  by: elijah4twenty     06/02/2008 07:15 PM     
Nah, that was about converting cars to run on biodiesel, not electricity.
  by: l´anglais     06/02/2008 07:29 PM     
this article specifically mentions his 1959 lincoln

so does the one with the link i posted.

why is it a different article?

  by: elijah4twenty     06/02/2008 07:32 PM     
thank you for yout support :)
  by: MmmMan     06/03/2008 12:11 AM     
  I'm sorry to burst anyone's bubble  
But if you read the source articles for both stories, they're clearly different. At the bottom of the source of ixuzus' summary, for example, it says:

"Young said he set out wanting his car to be able to use biodiesel, but later asked Goodwin whether they could instead power it with batteries and use it as a template to make electric cars more mainstream."

Two different stories on the same topic -- one from last November, when Young wanted Goodwin to convert his car to a bio-diesel/electric hybrid, the other from a day ago, after Young changed his mind and decided to go all-electric.
  by: l´anglais     06/03/2008 12:20 AM     
  Neil Young is a rocker?  
I thought he needed a rocker.
  by: John E Angel     06/03/2008 03:44 AM     
  Electric Car  
I wish them good luck and fortune. The auto industry as a whole is not interested in producing anything to bring an electric car to market. They are to much in bed with the oil companies.
  by: wvcoalminer   06/03/2008 04:56 AM     
  oil companies?  
I don't think that it's the oil companies that their protecting as much as it is there own parts division.

The entire drivetran of an electric car is really just an inflated version of a
Battery and a Starter.

Electric cars are WAY more reliable because they don't have anywhere close to the number of moving parts that an internal combustion engine has. No fuel injection system, no exhaust system no pollution controls, no oil pump. None of it.

They're parts department makes serious coin right now on the I.C.E.. that's why they're willing to build hybrids and such. Because, they still have I.C.E.'s
  by: VermiciousG     06/03/2008 05:32 PM     
Yeah I know that automakers want to keep that moneyline agoing with thier parts departments. But you can see the greed and the monopoly coming on strong from the oil companies, helped by the auto companies, in thier pushing of the hydrogen cars. They are pushing for hydrogen pumping stations (owned by oil companies). The simpler way would be to have a car ya just pump water into. But no, to heck with that, we don't want the oil excutives to starve, now do we ? LOL
  by: wvcoalminer   06/04/2008 02:21 AM     
  Science doesn't support that.  
You can't separate hydrogen from oxygen, recombine them with power as a byproduct for free. You spend more power in the separation than you get back. Maybe, Water with a rechargeable battery though.
  by: VermiciousG     06/04/2008 02:44 AM     
I didnt say split them for free. No such thing as a free lunch.
  by: wvcoalminer   06/04/2008 09:12 AM     
  Water fueled car...  
... is pointless.

It just plain wouldn't work. The energy cost of separating the water into hydrogen and oxygen would be more than the energy it'd generate by burning it. So you'd just end up with a net loss of energy and no way to power the car.

Having hydrogen supplying stations would work fine though, they could separate distilled water right there instead of shipping it about the place (although it may or may not be more cost effective to have it generated at a plant in a more traditional way, probably would be).

Hydrogen also has some inherent stability problems (see Hindenburg, oh the huge manatee) although most fuels do and there are ways around most of the problems.

Then there's the straight up electric car, which has been in production and even been made by home mechanic/electrician, usually very ugly and inefficient in the laters case. But they tend to take a long time to charge and of course they utilise power derived from power stations so depending on your fondness for nuclear, coal or whatever is in your area is definitely used.

They've experimented with capacitor style batteries that charge quickly but they of course aren't very good at releasing their charge slowly so again have limited use and again rely on power stations.

Anyway, I've started rambling.

But basically any car that claims to run on water is purporting to be a perpetual motion machine. Sadly a lot of people still believe a perpetual motion machine is possible, usually because they have no idea of the rather simple con that's been around for over a century surrounding it and the rather basic science that makes it impossible.

Cold fusion may one day be possible, don't get me wrong, I'm all for new things being discovered, but the guy who claims he can make power from water who hasn't filed any patents and can't demonstrate it in public (even though they invariably get news articles and TV bits) or have it independently verified is not the man you put confidence in.
  by: tantryl   06/04/2008 01:33 PM     
  Oh yeah, the point of my above post is...  
There'd be no point having water & a rechargeable battery... you'd just have the battery (a la normal electric cars).

Since the "water + energy -> Hydrogen&Oxygen -> energy + water" results in a net loss of energy you may as well just power it directly off the regular rechargeable battery (a la normal electric cars) as that would not only be more efficient but would eliminate a large, heavy and in the end pointless extra conversion unit.
  by: tantryl   06/04/2008 01:42 PM     
  Sorry to throw this into a third post  
But I just saw this in the 2007 article:

"Goodwin's developing a download that can be installed in a car's computer and improve the mileage by five to seven mpg without losing performance. He expects it to cost about $200."

OK. Goodwin is basically a con man who knows how to install a hybrid motor.

Googling a bit about him shows extraordinary claims that have no grounding in reality, prone to making wild claims like the above and never producing results...


And people fall for this nonsense every time. I'm sure someone on these very boards will argue with me, not because they have proof of one of his more outrageous claims, just because they want me to prove without any doubt that he has lied about absolutely everything instead of my claim of a mechanic/engineer who can install the equipment someone else's inventions but just can't produce the amazing fuel saving benefits he claims to have invented (or his company invented).


Confidence man (or habitual excessive exaggerator) who can install regular factory produced components into normal cars.

But Arnie and Mr Young have hired him I hear you cry! Yes, they're known for their intelligence. And besides this would be far from the biggest scam to hit famous people:
  by: tantryl   06/04/2008 02:05 PM     
Jeez! Been saving that up for a while?

I agree that the water+battery is silly because obviously you'd just be better off with just a battery. Point is that that'd be the only way that it'd work. And it Could work. It's just not efficient.

I don't buy into many of the wild, free energy BS claims either. I just know that there are ways out from under big oil, the middle east, $4 a gallon, climate change, etc. that aren't being explored and the reasons all sound like a lot of excuses to protect existing industries to me.

I do want to say one thing about electrics that idiots like Glenn Beck tend to press. They say that if you switch to electric cars then the power plants are going to have to burn more fuel in order to keep up with the increased electrical use.

They are right, BUT
A. It's a lot easier to maintain the efficience, environmental impact, cost effectiveness of a few hundred power plants than it is to manage it for a few hundred million internal combustion engines.

B. Not all power comes from fossil fuels. Whatever you use locally, wind, solar, nuclear, coal. That's your fuel source and the likelyhood of all of them getting in short supply simultaneously is unlikely to say the least.

C. As changes, adaptations and advances in power generation come no one needs to trade in an electric for a new kind of power. If the end result is electricity then it doesn't matter how it's created. It'll just kinda be there.
  by: VermiciousG     06/04/2008 02:49 PM     
Yeah, scams get my goat. Con men get my goat.

And indeed it's true, it would be of a reasonable efficiency to draw the power from power stations, possibly better than petroleum but how exactly you'd measure that would be interesting. There's efficiency loss in the generation process and transforming the voltage and transmitting the power over large distances as well as loss in conversion to battery DC power that'd have to be taken into account.

There'd be complications with the extra power draw and it comes to more than just power stations because the entire infrastructure would likely need some for of upgrade.

But these things are certainly all possible and one would imagine inevitable since oil is a finite resource.

I don't foresee any countries actually considering it let alone doing it until the cost of oil is ludicrously high (about 5-10 times what it is now, inflation adjusted, maybe more). Oil based fuels would probably still be required for air and industry transport though, although electric train would become more popular one would think.

I'd like it to happen, but then I'd like the space elevator ( ) built and used, I'd like renewable energy sources to be properly implemented ( ) and I'd like world peace.

But sadly those aren't coming any time soon.
  by: tantryl   06/04/2008 03:57 PM     
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