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09/04/2008 06:14 PM ID: 73166 Permalink   

British Soldier Refused by Metro Hotel, Forces Minister Demands to Know Why

 

Corporal Tomos Stringer, 23, from Gwynedd, in Wales , used his leave to see his friend in Surrey after he had been wounded in Afghanistan. On arrival in Surrey, Mr Tomos tried to book into the Metro Hotel.

He was shocked by the receptionist as he tried to book himself in a room; he was asked for ID & was told there was a “no military personnel" policy. Tomos works with the 23 Air Assault Support Regiment, the Royal Logistic Corps.

Tomos spent the night sleeping in his car. The hotel has since “sincerely apologised for that mistake." The Metro has been the target for abusive phone calls since the incident and have now involved the police.

 
  Source: news.bbc.co.uk  
    WebReporter: captainJane Show Calling Card      
  Recommendation:  
ASSESS this news: BLOCK this news. Reason:
   
  64 Comments
  
  funny  
 
over here (in canada and even the US) you can be kickout out of/off of a buinesses property for any reason.

i wonder what the reason was the the no military personnel policy is... i'm guessing this was their way of protesting the war... to an extent i could see it working.

its soldiers were made to be second class (inferior or undesitrable citizens) at home out of spite for their actions aboard through the course the course of time fewer and fewer will be inclined to carry out the act of their country for the contempt they would receive at home... though it is shame as many soldier got duped int oit plain and simple, beit for education, quick money (i assume soldier make substantially more than minimum wage, esspecially all benifits considered), not being qualified for a good job, or in response to false flag operations widely thought to be genuine acts of foreign terrorism (like 9/11 or the UK equivelent; the lodon bombing of july 7th 2005, although people are becomming increasingly aware).

its makes little sense to support the troops and not the war... thats almost like saying you support the right to own a weapon (the troops), but not the right to use it (war)... typically soldiers are trained for two things, and keeping the peace isn't one of them they are killing people and blowing shit up, which is incompatible with almost everything excpet war.

i support neither the war, nor the politicans that caused the war, nor the troops that fight the war, nor ANY country involved in the wars (including my own; esspecially after desecrating our own peacekeepers gloabal status)... nor do i hold any respect for any of those 4 things.

i put soldiers dying in most wars right up there with heavy-metal fans commiting suicide. no great loss from where i sit. as bill hicks said about heavy-matel fans commiting suicide:

"were missing a moron... i guess that means i'm one car length ahead of traffic today"

might sound callous at first but its hard to disagree with.
 
  by: HAVOC666     09/04/2008 06:58 PM     
  Havoc  
 
Agreed.

They should have that right.

I admire this hotel.
 
  by: dieu_7     09/04/2008 07:00 PM     
  lmao  
 
You people are some pathetic scum bags.. If I ever saw you losers outside I'd spit in your face. But hey we can already see your straight losers.. Go mumble about your theories elsewhere, you freak.
 
  by: steme   09/04/2008 07:11 PM     
  While I don't support  
 
the war, or the reasons, or the politicians, those soldiers who were against the war and forced to go because of signing up, I do support. Those who signed up -after- I don't. This includes my own cousin. They knew of what a bullsh*t war it was, and still signed up.

 
  by: Kroww   09/04/2008 07:30 PM     
  *snicker*  
 
Way to take the high-road, steme. Amazing how Havoc just said some truly unpleasant things, yet you STILL come off looking like the bigger tool because at least he had something to say about the issue. Try to spend less time hating and more time thinking next time.

Havoc, the troops are pawns to the whims of the government. Further, they're not some Stormtrooper caricatures out to do acts of unmitigated evil. What's wrong with a guy signing up because he wants to make things better in Iraq or Afghanistan? Should he be treated as a second-class citizen because the politician who plotted his course was a scumbag? I really think not. Military personel have always been revered because they're willing to fight and die for their country. It's hardly their fault that their sacrifice has been misused.
 
  by: MomentOfClarity     09/04/2008 07:36 PM     
  @MomentOfClarity  
 
"What's wrong with a guy signing up because he wants to make things better in Iraq or Afghanistan?"

At what expense? Why is it better that our military is killing people who are enlisting for the exact same reason? The people there are sacrificing themselves for what they believe in, but "they're wrong and we're right", so they die? What happens when a country thinks what we're doing is wrong? should we die for that? Sounds a bit like the holocaust doesn't it?

Whatever your reason for joining a branch of the military, War is stupid and leads to nothing but hatred and fear.
 
  by: ludwitr   09/04/2008 07:58 PM     
  @MomentOfClarity  
 
however I applaud this:
+1
"Way to take the high-road, steme. Amazing how Havoc just said some truly unpleasant things, yet you STILL come off looking like the bigger tool because at least he had something to say about the issue. Try to spend less time hating and more time thinking next time."

I may disagree with your ideas, but I still respect that you put thought into them. :)
 
  by: ludwitr   09/04/2008 08:00 PM     
  @MOC  
 
i did cover where your cocern lies...

"though it is shame as many soldier got duped into it plain and simple, beit for education, quick money (i assume soldier make substantially more than minimum wage, esspecially all benifits considered), not being qualified for a good job, or in response to false flag operations widely thought to be genuine acts of foreign terrorism (like 9/11 or the UK equivelent; the lodon bombing of july 7th 2005, although people are becomming increasingly aware)."

i'm not against the military in general, in-and-of-itself but rather its primary use in many countries which is actually not defence but warmongering. if a country were invaded and used its miltary for defense than yes i'd support the military and the troops, but when waging war for national resource never, nor should anyone, atleast not anyone who doesn't think themsleves a warmonger themselves.

i do not ever except "just following orders" as an excuse... israeli deathsquads that massacre palestinians just follow order, nazi soldier just followed orders... US/UK troops that commit torture are often just following orders (namely to get bogus confessions, some probably do it for some sick pleasure in war)

i support the unknown heros... the soldiers who stand up and DONT fight for their leader pointless wars, even if that means they go to jail or have to flee their country for persecution for not wanting to become a warmonger... almost every soldier is a tool, outside of the military they might not be tools, but in the military they are only tools, and tools with the intent to kill, maim and blow shit up... and they are very good at all 3, and expendable tools at that... but unfortunately (or rather fortunately for society) none of those 3 have a place in civilized society, nor can peace be achieved nor kept by their usage.

as for whats wrong with someone signing up to make things better in iraq and afghanistan... well for ones its niave at best and for two they would only be contributing to the problem in actuality... but they probably wouldn't know because the government and media like to keep people ignorant, because ignorant people are far easier to control, as are mentally conditioned (brainwashed) people this has easily been achieve on much of the populas of the US and the UK by the persistant use of buzz words and phrase like "terrorism", "axis of evil", "anti-american"/"unpatriotic" (or anti-british as the case my be; i don't know if people the UK has to deal with this horse-crap-claim), or "they hate our freedom". so what wrong with it... nothing as far as THEIR intent, but their intent and their order and action are often very different things in the reality of war.

you can't make things better in a country that hates you for being there... anyone that thinks this is possible might as well take a hammer to their head, as their not using their head for thinking and rational decision making.
 
  by: HAVOC666     09/04/2008 08:28 PM     
  From The Article  
 
"....."We've been to America and their military get treated like heroes over there...."

Well, that could DEFINATELY be debated - with great ease.

As for this steme character that posted his little spit fest - you don't have many friends do you! Internet Tough Guy at its best. I do believe I found a perfect representation of this steme person, here:

http://redwing.hutman.net/...


"...I'de spit in your face..." bwaaahahahah, get a slit throat that way too!!
 
  by: Tumbleweed   09/04/2008 08:38 PM     
  Vietnam...  
 
we sent our troops off cheering them on, when they returned they got either jeers or turned heads.

I am deeply sad for our troops they are sent to war today, for a different reason all together, they are just porns for the governments of today to play with.

This so reminds of the soldiers from vietnam.
 
  by: captainJane     09/04/2008 08:48 PM     
  Anyone signing up with the military  
 
is saying that he/she is prepared to kill another person just because a politician somewhere wants him/her to do so... or is a naive dumbass.
 
  by: mousejunkie     09/04/2008 08:54 PM     
  yeah yeah  
 
if no one joined the army across the world... no wars would be fought.

What a utopia. No wars. The problem with war ending is that someone sees opportunity and starts the fighting again! if Humanity ever forms a country of peaceful intelligent citizens, I'm sure eventually a group of morons will come and wipe it out.
 
  by: Trevelyan   09/04/2008 08:56 PM     
  @ steme  
 
kisses for you
 
  by: dieu_7     09/04/2008 09:08 PM     
  @ steve  
 
your a lovely guy too.
 
  by: dieu_7     09/04/2008 09:12 PM     
  @ steve  
 
"if it was not for the forces of the free world"

have no words of your own, propaganda works on some people it would seem
 
  by: dieu_7     09/04/2008 09:13 PM     
  Is there any way to notify the mods as to..  
 
the content of Steve2045 comments. Only a day or so ago he commented to me that Cromwell should have killed all Catholics and in the thread he posted that people should commit suicide.

I'm not shy of making harsh statements myself, I did refer to the British army as scum, but gave my reasoning for it, I am an Irish citizen and have certain feelings about the British army, but acknowledge myself that my own argument would have been better had I not used such a blanket statement. But I do take exception to a comment clearly bigoted and referring to a man who murdered in a racist and bigoted way hundreds of thousands of Irish Catholics.

If anyone knows how to report something like this, I would appreciate it. I'm not trying to be a censor here, but there is no place for bigotry of this sort.
 
  by: dieu_7     09/04/2008 09:46 PM     
  @ Trevelyan  
 
assuming that the "yeah, yeah" was in regards to my comment:

Utopia on one side... doesn't change the fact of what I wrote without any other meaning interpreted into it. A soldier is prepared to kill another human if a politician wants him to.

I totally agree with you by the way. As most humans appear to be morons - SN users exclude of course...lol, there will never be peace on this planet.

In any case, imho anyone who is prepared to kill just because someone else tells him to is a dumbass... naive or not.
 
  by: mousejunkie     09/04/2008 09:59 PM     
  @dieu_7  
 
Steve appears to be a well fed troll....

With the story; although it disappoints me, I'm not surprised. The Labour government has created an "us and them" situation where they use their police and bureaucrats to bully their own people. They use the army to bully the governments and kill the people of far off lands. Across England now we see increase in animosity to anyone and everyone who serves the politicians in Westminster, not least because those are the people helping keep them in power and helping them bankrupt the country for their own gain.

Also, British forces abroad at least have a reputation for gang violence, I could understand a "no UK soldiers" policy abroad, never heard of it at home though.

It's not the soldiers' fault but the government don't care so long as they can keep their snouts in the trough. I imagine the situation will get worse before it gets better.
 
  by: Maxx20     09/04/2008 10:03 PM     
  well whatever people here think  
 
that hotel will now lose customers,the hotel is back peddling like mad,even offered him a free room and a sincere
apologie,what ever the case this should not have happened the guy only wanted a room for the night.
 
  by: Jammy-Doger   09/04/2008 10:04 PM     
  Further In The Article  
 
Concerning accepting military guests:

"....In almost every case the booking is accepted...."

It almost appears as if this particular incdent was a communication gap within the hotel, perhaps a new employee?

Granted, more than one soldier at a time often does result in catastrophic drunken nights, with lots of damage.

Maybe the policy is about a group of soldiers wishing to room there, not *ALL soldiers, period*, but someone misunderstood.

Considering the hotel does not have a record of negating a soldiers' hospice, I kinda think this is getting blown out of perportion.
 
  by: Tumbleweed   09/04/2008 10:22 PM     
  @Steme  
 
Don't even bother, if you haven't realized by now, the shortnews community consists 99% of war hating liberals. Arguing with them is a moot point since they will just come at you in droves to defend each other.
 
  by: ronny_cordova   09/04/2008 10:33 PM     
  I  
 
think they are still open for bookings
should anyone want to stay there,
providing you are not a member of:
armed forces, terrorists groups,
religious groups or you hold political
views that are not held by the
management. Book now call 01483 727
100.

HAVOC666, what this all about? "right
up there with heavy-metal fans
commiting suicide" you make it sound
like fans of decent music have a habit
of topping themselves. Your wrong.
Being a fan of the genre myself, i
never know a rock fan to kill
themselves. You can't blame the music
because based on that, the morgues
would be filled with rap and r'n'b
fans, jesus.
 
  by: philigs     09/04/2008 10:35 PM     
  @ ronny_cordova  
 
"....shortnews community consists 99% of war hating liberals...."

Are you aying that's a bad thing? To hate war?
 
  by: Tumbleweed   09/04/2008 10:39 PM     
  @HAVOC666  
 
In the US you cannot kick someone out of a hotel for 'any reason.'

You try kicking someone out for being a woman, disabled, black, Asian, or a soldier.

You'll be facing the mother of all lawsuits before you can say 'have a nice day.'

As for 'support our troops' that is a constant mantra in the US. Soldiers are supposed to be revered at all times. People put out the bumper stickers and the various other pleasantries you see on TV.

Of course the reality is America doesn't really support its troops. That's why so many homeless are former veterans. That's why we stop loss them. That's why we discourage them from seeking mental health treatment after they have been in a war zone. That's why when a soldier is killed, their family get a partial pay check because they didn't work any more days after they were dead.

America, if nothing else, does like to talk the talk about supporting the troops. And I find it hard to believe that any hotel in America has a 'no troops' policy.
 
  by: ZCT     09/04/2008 11:00 PM     
  @mousejunkie  
 
really, the only job that the military offers is killers huh.
yah try again
 
  by: snowman47   09/04/2008 11:07 PM     
  ...  
 
"Don't even bother, if you haven't realized by now, the shortnews community consists 99% of war hating liberals. Arguing with them is a moot point since they will just come at you in droves to defend each other."

It's amusing how often this gets trotted out when someone is incapable of defending their view.

I can guarantee you that if a person with (real) conservative views, who could give good solid reasons, backed up with real evidence or at least honest conviction and who didn't resort to spin, lies and personal attacks; would be welcomed with open arms by the majority of the regular posters. In fact, I'm willing to bet that if a person were to ask, they'd discover that quite of few of the evil, commie, war-hating, liberals here hold at least one or two (traditionally) Conservative views, for example I'm sure most people could agree that a small, efficient government is a good thing, and that is traditionally a Conservative view.
 
  by: StarShadow     09/04/2008 11:20 PM     
  Sorry  
 
about my comment coming out all thin and tall, i was trying out Google Chrome. Can't you tell it's beta.
 
  by: philigs     09/04/2008 11:27 PM     
  @ronny_cordova  
 
I raise my hand, I hate war. I hate the killing of human beings, I hate the suffering of anything and everything and I hate the thought that one day, someone who loves war will set in motion events which remove our species from the planet entirely. We already have the capacity, just no-one has put it in motion yet.

So long as people like you think that hating war and killing is a bad thing, the human race is doomed. Fact.
 
  by: Maxx20     09/04/2008 11:28 PM     
  Naive Dumbass Here  
 
I do not regret my service to my country for one moment. Im also one of the evil liberals you hear hang out here.

"Of course the reality is America doesn't really support its troops. That's why so many homeless are former veterans. That's why we stop loss them. That's why we discourage them from seeking mental health treatment after they have been in a war zone. That's why when a soldier is killed, their family get a partial pay check because they didn't work any more days after they were dead."

Exactly ZCT I see it all around. People wave the flags for a day or two then it is Vet who? My dad and uncles were not treated as well as the soldiers of today are either. Try being spit on or have dead baby pigs hung on stakes in your front yard. Did they agree with Vietnam? Not really but a few were drafted and one even volunteered for a 3rd tour. You can find him in a VA Psych ward right now with Alzhiemers and living in the trenches in his mind. Im' sure it helped when his youngest told him Charlie took his guns when he started having a psychotic break also. If you go visit him don't worry he is strapped down, but if he gets out of his "imprisonment" I'd get the F out of dodge because your name is Charlie no matter who you are he is being kept captive..don't believe me? Just ask him. Sadly if he had gotten the help he needed for the past 30 years it might not be as bad as it is now.
 
  by: TaraB     09/04/2008 11:42 PM     
  @Tara  
 
That pisses me off to no end. The same thing happens here in Canada. We get fed all of the 'support the troops' drivel and our vets, or their families if they were KIA, are left with nearly nothing, and have to fight tooth and nail for what little they do get. At a minimum they should be getting top-notch health-care free of charge and a generous pension (or survivor benefits for the families).
 
  by: StarShadow     09/04/2008 11:49 PM     
  @Star  
 
You would think so! I see what my dad gets for his time in the service and it is a crock. My uncle was injured quite a bit more but still never got the help he needed. My dad attempted to go to the VA earlier this year for a problem related to his service. He was informed that he would have to give up any Dr's he saw outside the VA, drive to Ann Arbor for any appointments and would see whatever staff Dr was on duty at the time. There is no way in hell I would let him give up his Family Dr who used to threat the Vets locally or his Cardio who was handpicked by myself to help with his problems.

A friend of mine has an active duty husband going over for his 4th time and they qualify for Food Stamps for Fkcs sake! It is pathetic and sickening the way that our men and women have to live while the politicians want and need for naught.
 
  by: TaraB     09/04/2008 11:56 PM     
  Oh..  
 
Also, I don't know about the US, but up here all it takes for a politician to qualify for their very generous pension is 4 years. If we can give politicians those very generous pensions, then we can damn well do it for the armed forces personnel willing to give their lives for their country.
 
  by: StarShadow     09/04/2008 11:59 PM     
  @havoc and ludwitr  
 
Naïveté is the source of many positive human actions, being the heart of optimism. As long as one's government isn't marching across the continent assimilating or destroying anyone in their path, I think there's still room for it. Anything less than such aggression is a gray area. To enlist can be laudable for my reason or worthy of condemnation for yours. However, the same could be said of those fleeing unknown heroes. Someone will still have to die for them, and if not in Iraq, somewhere else in the world where they could have done some good. I won't condemn either, personally; if you're following your conscience (to a reasonable destination) at the risk of your life you deserve respect. Does that follow for the enemy as well? Sure, as much as it does for us, when the rules of war are obeyed. I don't think much of it when we kill civilians, and no matter how the insurgents have their backs to the wall, I don't think much of it when they do, either.
 
  by: MomentOfClarity     09/05/2008 12:02 AM     
  Well  
 
Dr Treated* not threat sorry about that.

I don't know if has changed or not, but some politicians can draw multiple pensions if they have served different areas i.e. House of Reps state level, Congress at Federal level.
 
  by: TaraB     09/05/2008 12:03 AM     
  @philigs &ZCT  
 
"HAVOC666, what this all about? "right
up there with heavy-metal fans
commiting suicide" you make it sound
like fans of decent music have a habit
of topping themselves. Your wrong.
Being a fan of the genre myself, i
never know a rock fan to kill
themselves. You can't blame the music
because based on that, the morgues
would be filled with rap and r'n'b
fans, jesus."

lol, i'm major fan of the genre too... but, when a fan off himself (and it does happen, judas preist got famous for some fans killing themselves) its not great lose... when a soldier dies... its no great lose...

its mostly based on a carlin and bill hicks joke, they both do similar joke about this how when peopel like this die its not like were losing a cure for cancer or AIDS, were not losing the invention of light-speed travel or even the plan for world peace... these are people that typically if they have made a contribution it has turned out to be a negative one, if it wasn't obviously negative to begin with.


@ZCT

"In the US you cannot kick someone out of a hotel for 'any reason.'

You try kicking someone out for being a woman, disabled, black, Asian, or a soldier.

You'll be facing the mother of all lawsuits before you can say 'have a nice day.'"

not BEFORE they have a room at that points its a business like any other business and they have the right to refuse you. in this case he hadn't booked in; he didn't have a room. so while it was a mistake it appears it was within their rights.
 
  by: HAVOC666     09/05/2008 12:08 AM     
  Well...  
 
I'm not entirely sure it's a good idea to treat military personnel WORSE, although there are quite a few of them that the world would be better off without. But I do know that soldiers are denied care they need. I know a guy, more of an acquaintance than a friend, that can't get help paying for psychological help. He's had a number of flashbacks that I've personally witnessed and recently had a restraining order put against him because he pulled a gun on his wife. I've been nervous about hanging out with him as I've seen his flashbacks and know that he's quite capable of killing any number of people. I do agree this story was blown out of proportion.
 
  by: amir8500   09/05/2008 12:33 AM     
  @Ronny  
 
Do guys like you and steme get off on this us-versus-them, culture war nonsense? Does it make you feel important to declare anyone who disagrees with you in the slightest to be the enemy, then impotently b-tch about them? Well, while some guys make good money off that, that doesn't amount to squat in terms of real discourse and that's the currency here. If you want to make a case for the troops, then do it like I and half the people on this topic are or quit whining. I think if you were doing less of that, you might figure out that conservatism is about more than just some misguided, simplistic idea of being pro-war.
 
  by: MomentOfClarity     09/05/2008 12:33 AM     
  @ mousejunkie  
 
There will be peace on this planet when it consists of the United Countries of America (and Japan).
 
  by: lolcats   09/05/2008 02:17 AM     
  @lolcats  
 
"There will be peace on this planet when it consists of the United Countries of America (and Japan)."

dont count on it with around 11,000 gun related deaths every year alone in the US... gangs fighting each other, cops, regular people.. tand that just gun deaths, never mind all violent acts... and this is only the US never mind the other 6 billion people on earth.

its like packing 6.3-6.5 billion wild animals in alittle over 200 massive cages, with slightly differing rules in each cage... we're eatting each other.

real peace on earth with be achieved only when there is 1 person on earth... or less... humans are predators and as such, i'm not sure we are capable of peace as a species.
 
  by: HAVOC666     09/05/2008 02:28 AM     
  @Dieu_7  
 
So now cause you cant enter into a debate correctly, and after youve wound up poeple on short news for a while. YOU CRY Racisim. Bet you never thought about that when you were kill protestent's.
I spent several year In N/I and there where many people who were very nice to us. And then there were the others I guess your one of the others.....<deleted by admin>
Thats all i have to say on the matter....
 
  by: steve2045     09/05/2008 02:13 PM     
  I just wish...  
 
Our boys were kept for real situations, they are being attacked from three positions now, it starts with our governments for sending them to wars that should never have began, the enemies, our governments created, and the civilians that cannot even comprehend what the hell is going on in this world!
 
  by: captainJane     09/05/2008 02:57 PM     
  @steve2045  
 
I have debated this topic in the above thread, I expressed my opinion in a very non-confrontational manner, saying that I think the hotel has this right, and admire them for taking a stand, but I do actually see how it is harsh to turn a man away who is seeking somewhere to sleep for the night and may not be the best course of action.

I do not seek to 'wind up' anybody, I express my feelings on different topics and allow people to respond and take issue with what I say and then I try to respond to them explaining why I think the way I do.

"YOU CRY Racisim" Yes I do call racism.
You said that Cromwell should have killed all Catholics in another of CaptainJane's articles, and now you say they should have left it to the B Specials who were notorious for their raping, beating, harassing, mutilating, torturing of innocent Catholics during the war against the foreign occupier and tyrannical homogeneous rule of the Ulster Unionist population.
Bet you never thought about that when you were kill protestent's.

"I spent several year In N/I and there where many people who were very nice to us. And then there were the others I guess your one of the others.....One more thing"

Yes I am one of the others, I would not have been nice to you because I would not have welcomed British troops on Irish soil that were not asked there by the Irish people.

"Bet you never thought about that when you were kill protestent's."

I have never killed a man in my life, I have never shot a gun in my life, can you say the same?

I may be an Irish Republican, but in all but the most dire of situations I am an absolute pacifist and against any war. It would seem you sir are the aggressor.

Also I reported you to short news for your continuous calling for the murder of Irish Catholics and your clearly bigoted remarks. I admit I rose to your provocation before but I don't intend to stoop to your level again. Hopefully you will see, unlikely but hopefully, how your remarks are callous, especially seen as you spent time in the North as a member of the British armed forces during a time when the British armed forces murdered 14 innocent men at Bloody Sunday in Derry during a Civil Rights Demonstration, and at a time when Irish men and women were murdered, tortured and abused in the most degrading of ways by the organisation you were a member of.

It really does say somethign that you would still make somments like you have in the last few of Captain Janes interesting posts.

May you have a good day Steve.

Le gach dea ghui a chara. That sir means best wishes, friend, in the language my countrymen speak because of over 800 years of British tyranny in Ireland.

I do however want to stress that it is great what is happening in Ireland with the IRA finally able to cease all activities as recognised by the Police Chief Hugh Orde, due to the fact that all involved wanted an end to the killing, all but people like Steve it would seem.
 
  by: dieu_7     09/05/2008 03:10 PM     
  dieu_7  
 
I really appreciated your openness on this subject!
All it takes is communication and to be able see from for each side, this is vital and the more we all have discussion the more we understand, I am thrilled about these latest development s; it seem to me, there is no use in going over past deeds, we have enough in this world going on right now, which affects all our lives.
Just look at the survivors from the last WW2,now we have American /Japanese friendships, men who have since visited each other laying the past to rest, and now even sad for the lives they were duty bound to take at that time, it was not their fault, so they let it all go.
 
  by: captainJane     09/05/2008 05:33 PM     
  @ALL  
 
arguing on internet is like running the special Olympics. Even if you win you are still retarded!

Every one is entitled to their own opinion. So why flame?

Agree to disagree ...

Thats why there is wars. until people care more about people then things NOTHING will change...
</rant>
 
  by: Darken702   09/05/2008 11:37 PM     
  hmm  
 
So many people despise war yet it is something that has been around since the beginning of man. Civilizations have come to power and fallen due to it but it is the way of the world.

It is easy to sit back and announce your distaste for war all while sitting back reaping the spoils. Just about any advancement in civilian technology has been based off of military technology. From medical items to a common kitchen appliance, the list of items based off declassified military technology is endless and obviously if there was no war the technology would ever exist.

Not only do civilians gain from war-related technology but so do their economies.

Imagine what shape your current economy would be in if there no war was currently going on. Less of a demand for weapons manufacturing, raw materials, and many other items. Basically, no war means fewer jobs for everyone. With the current state of the global economy less jobs is the last thing we need. Look at the pre-WWII US economy and then compare it to the post-WWII economy, you cannot say the war did not bring the country out of a depression.

By all means though, sit back in your chair and be hypocritical about it all.

Someday you will realize sometimes the best way to bring about change is with the sweat and blood of men, not with words. Then again, maybe your words will save you when you are looking down the barrel of an AK-47 held by a man whose language you don’t understand.
 
  by: ronny_cordova   09/06/2008 03:11 AM     
  @ ronny_cordova  
 
Yes we have had wars going back thousands of years, but then people were not as educated as there are now and it was about then about survival of the fittest the barbaric way, you would think today we would have left this behind us.

As many before have said and now you rightfully mentioned, should there be no wars, we would be greatly over populated in this world, good point! It always was, but I believe we don’t need war’s too cut some of the numbers down, we have thousands murderers destroying people’s lives, so if we wanted to do any culling there is one option, that would be a few of this planet, should we decide to put an end to their freedom only to torture and kill again, as they have been able to do here in the UK. And as for medicinal experiments, well again, we have these misfits to run the trails on, I could think of a much fairer ways of dealing with the population problems other than war.
 
  by: captainJane     09/06/2008 04:01 AM     
  @ ronny_cordova  
 
".....So many people despise war yet it is something that has been around since the beginning of man....."
So has the common cold ....... yer point?

".....It is easy to sit back and announce your distaste for war all while sitting back reaping the spoils....."
Well, I guess my class of people is quite different from yours - my class would quickly forgo the spoils for serenity.

".....Just about any advancement in civilian technology has been based off of military technology....."
The same techonology and knowledge can produce benificial life goods without producing weapons, the two depend on each other. Rather, think of all that COULD be advanced, were it not for effort and funding going to bombs.

".....Not only do civilians gain from war-related technology but so do their economies....."
See above - the technology gained in place of war machines can also be bought and sold ........ economy.

".....Imagine what shape your current economy would be in if there no war was currently going on....."
Well, according to Forum posting "U.S. Still Top Defence Spender", since the current Iraq invasion started, my current economy would be $2,800,000,000,000 - that's - two trillion eight hundred billion dollars. Not to mention - a whole lot of humans.

".....Basically, no war means fewer jobs for everyone....."
Again, make something damn else !!!

".....Look at the pre-WWII US economy and then compare it to the post-WWII economy, you cannot say the war did not bring the country out of a depression......"
Considering the money was obvioulsy available to produce war items, the same money, knowledge, and effort could have advanced in damn near any direction desired - without war - and STILL come out of the depression. But war is easy .... point and shoot.

".....Someday you will realize sometimes the best way to bring about change is with the sweat and blood of men, not with words......"
Tell me something, are you a combat veteran? Have you been shot at? Have you heard the whiz of incoming rounds? Have you looked a man in the eye and then put a bullet through his head? Have you pulled the pin on a grenade and lobbed it into a group of men? Have you stuck your finger in the bullet hole of your bud's chest, screaming for medics while he dies in front of you?

No, your war, and your killing, and your sweat and blood can go straight to hell.
 
  by: Tumbleweed   09/06/2008 05:57 AM     
  Typo Correction  
 
Dammit, guess I was fumin'.

Third paragraph:

"....the two depend on each other...."

should read -

"....the two do not depend on each other....."
 
  by: Tumbleweed   09/06/2008 06:01 AM     
  @ronny  
 
Wow, as our infrastructure crumbles and our unemployment rates soar while we're embroiled in not one but two wars, it takes some really selective interpretation of history to come up with that idea! War is neither the only, nor the best, way to maintain an economy or advance a society. Perhaps you'd do well to follow the Futurists?
 
  by: MomentOfClarity     09/06/2008 06:45 AM     
  Heh  
 
It's easy to critize Iraq, among other wars, from the safety of retrospect or another continent, for that matter. (That's meant as a general statement, and not to snub anyone.)

Now, that being said, my feelings about wars are critical, Iraq being no exception, but kind of pointless in this conversation. If asked, there are few who wouldn't say, 'sure, peace would be gr8.'

Not everyone wants to do good in the world, not everybody can do good, and even fewer people actually do any good. That is even WITH the best intentions (conveniently paving the road to hell), either discussing philosophical and sociological cunundrums from the comfort of a coffee shop, or having an M-16 offering them more protection than a condom. (by the way, I never learned how to spell, 'i r teh sry')

Militaries do quite a bit more than just curb-stomp these poor countries in the Middle East or abroad. In their inherent existence, they provide a deterent and a measure of consequence. By existing, they are protecting you, my family, my friends, me (oh wait, I -am- stationed in the Middle East) from people who may otherwise choose to do harm.

Does that make whats going on in the Middle East right? Yes? No? Up to you. The death of arguably half a million mostly-probably-civilians is a pretty ugly fact to cope with. Again, not really that pertinent to this conversation. 'Serving your Country,' is a trite statement, used and abused for an epoch or six. But there is nothing wrong with an educated sense of nationalism, and there is nothing wrong with serving either. There are good soldiers, there are bad soldiers, and there is a lumbering media-machine that will spit a lot of garbage at all of us, colored whatever shade their agenda asks of them that day.

Refusing a soldier a place to board is wrong. Like refusing someone of a different color is wrong, of a different political (agenda) party is wrong, and denying you board because you don't support the war is wrong. That IS the point.

If you don't support the war, then vote and campign for someone who doesn't support it, because the same troops who will fight in Iraq will fight wherever they are asked to. It's up to US as a country (no pun with spelling intended, but was appreciated) to ensure their fight is a honorable one. To punish them for our political mistakes as a whole with something as stupid as a hotel just shows a lack of perspective.

 
  by: Rajl Al-Mumtir   09/06/2008 07:59 AM     
  @Rajl  
 
Well said. Nice pun. I wish more posters were as
coherent as you....ahem Havoc. :P
 
  by: storybored   09/06/2008 09:42 AM     
  @ Raj  
 
I have a vague feeling that not only the Metro has learned its lessons here, it was a bad move, I can understand if it was a mercenary, but for someone like this guy it was wrong!
 
  by: captainJane     09/06/2008 01:51 PM     
  @all  
 
Isnt it funny how one poor soldier not getting a room at the Inn, can stir up so much emotion.

Hang on that reminds me of something.
Cant quite put my finger on it...
 
  by: steve2045     09/06/2008 03:27 PM     
  @Rajl Al-Mumtir  
 
"Not everyone wants to do good in the world, not everybody can do good, and even fewer people actually do any good. That is even WITH the best intentions (conveniently paving the road to hell), either discussing philosophical and sociological cunundrums from the comfort of a coffee shop, or having an M-16 offering them more protection than a condom. (by the way, I never learned how to spell, 'i r teh sry')

Militaries do quite a bit more than just curb-stomp these poor countries in the Middle East or abroad. In their inherent existence, they provide a deterent and a measure of consequence. By existing, they are protecting you, my family, my friends, me (oh wait, I -am- stationed in the Middle East) from people who may otherwise choose to do harm."

protecting whom... halliburton... lockheed martin... blackwater security... cause you ain't protecting american's from the middle east nor people of any other country... and the only one an m-16 hqas ever protected was the people carrying it... but then that also maked them a completely justifiable target... and by warmongering in another countery it make YOUR country a justifiable target (and mine too for the fact were in afghanistan; i'm canadian, btw)

there is no such thing as a soldier who fights for me... i would sooner spit on them for being and supporting/enabling warmongering than praise them for it...

the last worth worth even a single life was WW2... every single war since has been pointless warmongering... and now it appears were heading up on WW3... gee thanks SO much for helping achieve that.

soldiers dont deserve even an ounce of respect simply for being soldiers, but rather for doing HONORABLE things, like defending your own country... not destroying someone else's... only warmongers and terrorists think that way.

"Does that make whats going on in the Middle East right? Yes? No? Up to you. The death of arguably half a million mostly-probably-civilians is a pretty ugly fact to cope with. Again, not really that pertinent to this conversation. 'Serving your Country,' is a trite statement, used and abused for an epoch or six. But there is nothing wrong with an educated sense of nationalism, and there is nothing wrong with serving either. There are good soldiers, there are bad soldiers, and there is a lumbering media-machine that will spit a lot of garbage at all of us, colored whatever shade their agenda asks of them that day."

so how is modern american nationalism and different from early 30's to mid 40's german nationalism?

and btw your "argueably half a million" is nearly 3 times that no... half a million was from a study 3, maybe 4 years ago.


"Refusing a soldier a place to board is wrong. Like refusing someone of a different color is wrong, of a different political (agenda) party is wrong, and denying you board because you don't support the war is wrong. That IS the point."

how so?, its a right to refuse ANYONE business... this isn't because of something they couldn't help, this was because of a choice they made... this is akin to not allowing gang members stay at a hotel... would you be saying it was just as bad as racism if they turned away gang members... cause you know most of the time gang member are just like everyone else... and almost indistingushable from a soldier aside from legal status (gangs ar illegal while military's are legal) and offical training. so no its nothing like racism, infact its protest. but i guess people dont have the right to protest the troops and what they are doing... whether ordered to or not.

"If you don't support the war, then vote and campign for someone who doesn't support it, because the same troops who will fight in Iraq will fight wherever they are asked to. It's up to US as a country (no pun with spelling intended, but was appreciated) to ensure their fight is a honorable one. To punish them for our political mistakes as a whole with something as stupid as a hotel just shows a lack of perspective."

good lets stick them in a collisium and gets some real entertianment... atleast there will be no lose of innocent life this way... no warmongering... just a bunch of (mostly) idiots who want to want, if they wanna fight and die i got no problem with that... when thery want to do in to another country... thats when i have a problem with that.

people like you would have supported the nazi's, damnit, why because if you lived there, in that time, you would think it to be patriotic and honorable and all that other horseshit were all fed and that mindless nationalist believe and gobble up like kibble...

being pround of your country is one thing being an agent of destruction for it is entirely another.

the only difference between a soldier and an insurgant are the reasons we make believe. for you see they think they are doing the right/good thing too... your just as folish as they are... but they have a legitiment reason to be fighting, you invaded their land. you would be do
 
  by: HAVOC666     09/06/2008 03:29 PM     
  continued  
 
the only difference between a soldier and an insurgant are the reasons we make believe. for you see they think they are doing the right/good thing too... your just as folish as they are... but they have a legitiment reason to be fighting, you invaded their land. you would be doing no differently if they invaded yours, you would fight with your life and die if you had to would you not... thats what they're doing, but they do it they are held in nothing but contempt, when we do it praise is to be expected... we are one moronic-ass-backwards society... hey , just like theirs is.


@storyboard,

if your not intelligible enough to get passed a few spelling mistakes, than ANY i say will be totally lost on you... as almost everything has been on you (just look at the global warming arguement).
 
  by: HAVOC666     09/06/2008 03:30 PM     
  Wrong target  
 
A soldier works for elected officials. Those elected officials, though complicated command channels, assign him work. The Hotel people have, one one hand, hired the soldier's boss. And then, on the other other hand, objected to the soldier's position. Wrong Target, flunk. Re-register to vote and re-read your ballot.
 
  by: terryeo   09/06/2008 09:03 PM     
  @ HAVOC  
 
Well, you said it. Everything you say IS lost on me. Not because of your rants, run-off sentences
and bad grammar, but because you are a bubbling cauldron of bullsh*t, spilling over into every
topic on this site with your extremist opinions, conspiracy theories, and unfounded arguments.

For the record, your global warming sources were laughable. However truthful they were, they
had no correlation with what we were debating. I explained to you very simply the science
behind why Antarctica (the continent, not just its tiny peninsula) will not be significantly melting,
and like all ignorant extremists you don't even assess the validity of this argument before
ranting on.

About your source :http://www.livescience.com/...

All this article talks about is how a very small portion of the ANTARCTIC PENNINSULA, not the
massive continent, is melting (granted at an exponentially higher rate than ever) and does not
support your argument of global sea levels more than a foot high. It even backs up my argument
at the end of the article:

"A separate recent study said that regardless of what humans do or don't do, the world's oceans
are destined to rise at least 4 inches (10 centimeters) in the next century because of climate
wheels already in motion."

Furthermore, your next source: http://www.sciencedaily.com/...

Contradicts your first source, and I quote: "a region currently the focus of intense international
scientific attention because it is changing faster than anywhere else on the WAIS and it has the
potential to raise sea-level by around 1.5 metres."

Finally, you criticizes the IPCC and source Wikipedia of all sites. Just because there are fanatics
such as yourself willing to criticizes anything under the sun, doesn't mean you are right. The
IPCC is the BEST AVAILABLE (keyword available) SCIENCE whether you like it or not. Please point
out to me another organization that is more thorough in their research. You can't.

You're very right, everything you say IS lost on me and for good reason.
 
  by: storybored   09/06/2008 11:51 PM     
  Long ;)  
 
Havoc, my friend, me amigo, wa sahebi,

Ranting doesn't always make one correct, and the security enjoyed to make such broad and far reaching comments comes from the protection your country provides. And that, is of course, also supported by your military. (Anonymity on 'teh interwebz' also important to note)

I have no problems with you disagreeing with me, my purpose was not to shove my opinion down your throat, unlike the way you often have treated others in this thread. You need to steer away from Iraq for a heartbeat or three, and think on a much bigger picture. I kept my comments pretty neutral about Iraq, though admittedly I wanted to make a strong statement about the value and protection soldiers provide, since it seems like the very idea of them doing anything but destroying has been largely ignored in this thread. The thread was hijacked from the beginning away from a far more pertinent and relevant topic: discrimination.

No disrespect intended, but your analogy between gangs and military is not appropriate. And yes, gang members should be allowed to stay at a hotel, provided they are not disruptive. Having a handful of soldiers who were disruptive at one point, and refusing service to one, is as bad as refusing service to someone who is black because you had a handful of bad experiences with people who happened to be black.

If you want to throw in, 'because of a choice they made,' then for the sake of example, I will replace my analogy of being black, by being muslim or christian instead. These are choices, and would be just as inappropriate to deny them a bed.

Discrimination is what this thread is about, and NEVER in the source was protesting war in the Middle East brought up as the explanation for denial. It was about a few jackasses who gave the hotel some headaches, who happened to be military, and one member was inappropriately denied. You suggested in your first post that it was their way to protest the war? In your reply to me, you said 'infact its protest' and I challenge you again - where in the source did it say that denying him a place to sleep had anything to do with protesting the war?

You clearly did not read the source enough.

I'd actually like to see, if you can provide, what legally gives a business the right to refuse anybody without having some special purpose, criteria, or safety in mind. Not unless we regressed 40 years and my name is Jim Crow.

Would I have supported the Nazis? Sh!t son, a whole country did. A country that had some very brilliant minds, far more intelligent than I ever have the potential to be, did. If I went from poverty to middle class or better overnight, didn't have a near instantaneous internet media-machine or television to feed perspective (ironic comment, yes, because of the foxnews nation we live in), having propaganda as the ONLY media open to me, and seeing nothing but results.. who knows? I think it's fair to say most people in those circumstances would've felt the same until the uglier facts of the war became apparent. Perhaps you really are an amazing example of truth, passion, and fortitude, and would not have supported them.. even in the years before the war and the final solution. That matters little to me. Your comparison matters little because you did not actually ask how I felt about the war and what I am doing to change it.

I don't support it, and I am voting in this election accordingly. Were I ever asked to do something that broke my ethics, then I would accept the greater consequences stipulated in the UCMJ. A right that I have, and I AM willing to accept the consequences if it came to that point.

I don't disagree that terrorist is a convenient label, and I agree everyone has a right to fight for their country, beliefs, and passions. You never asked, so how can you accuse me of being, 'as foolish,' especially if I consider this an illegal war? I cannot emphasize more strongly though, that this thread is not about a hotel protesting the war, but bad policy and treatment of a soldier.

@storybored
Thank you for the kind words ^^

@terryeo
I apologize for the misunderstanding, but that portion of my post was not related to the hotel. This is my fault for not being more clear.

It was about asking people who criticize soldiers for being in Iraq to help take responsibility in where our respective countries are going by voting and taking some form of action. I mean, lets be honest, the collective contribution due by taxes finances many war related endeavors, so you don't just have to be a soldier to be supporting war abroad.

We all have our part to stop it, and when the war stops, the country will still need people to serve in the military to protect and deter.
 
  by: Rajl Al-Mumtir   09/07/2008 12:00 AM     
  This is absolutly right...  
 
In this part here.

"We all have our part to stop it, and when the war stops, the country will still need people to serve in the military to protect and deter." Rajl Al-Mumtir

I am not saying our forces are not necessary there are vital for the protection of our country, but as I said in my earlier comment here, it is Vietnam all over again in both wars!

 
  by: captainJane     09/07/2008 12:41 AM     
  (>^_^)>  
 
"In this part here.

"We all have our part to stop it, and when the war stops, the country will still need people to serve in the military to protect and deter." Rajl Al-Mumtir

I am not saying our forces are not necessary there are vital for the protection of our country, but as I said in my earlier comment here, it is Vietnam all over again in both wars!"

Yeah, I would tend to agree that the comparison is a pretty fair one. I think the most important difference though is that there is no draft~
 
  by: Rajl Al-Mumtir   09/07/2008 12:50 AM     
  @storybored & Rajl Al-Mumtir  
 
"Finally, you criticizes the IPCC and source Wikipedia of all sites. Just because there are fanatics
such as yourself willing to criticizes anything under the sun, doesn't mean you are right. The
IPCC is the BEST AVAILABLE (keyword available) SCIENCE whether you like it or not. Please point
out to me another organization that is more thorough in their research. You can't.

You're very right, everything you say IS lost on me and for good reason."

saying it doesn't make it true i provided tyouy much more credible source... you rejected them outright... probably rwithout reading them.

the IPCC is heavily critized for bad (flawed) science, with a pretermined outcome, and being heavily conservative to the point where a better cases scenerio doesn't exist, they paint the most pleasant picture on a serious scenerio...

go back to bed.... your government has everything in control.



@Rajl Al-Mumtir

"Ranting doesn't always make one correct, and the security enjoyed to make such broad and far reaching comments comes from the protection your country provides. And that, is of course, also supported by your military. (Anonymity on 'teh interwebz' also important to note)"

i'd spit on you or anyone like you that makes that comment to my face; i am that sick of that BS rhetoric or and mindless people that keep saying it, you can take it and shove it... what gives me my right to free speech that fact that i'd punch anyone in the mouth trying to take it away... if that didn`t work, i might look into a gun, bottom line good luck taking my rights away, i`m the only one that has enforced my rights, and i very well will probably be the only one that ever does.

NO-ONE... EVER has fought for my protection, my rights, my anything... bottom line. only corporate interests... and thats what you have been fighting for, whether you know it or not, and if you know the war is illegal than you probably know who you are really fighting for.. what may not be aware of is who your NOT fighting for... and that the only people milirtaies should be fighting for, the people; their security... not coporate intrests.


"No disrespect intended, but your analogy between gangs and military is not appropriate. And yes, gang members should be allowed to stay at a hotel, provided they are not disruptive. Having a handful of soldiers who were disruptive at one point, and refusing service to one, is as bad as refusing service to someone who is black because you had a handful of bad experiences with people who happened to be black."

inappropiate... look at this objectively than perhaps... gang member are paerson, undesirable, military are person, and some consider them undesirable.... the main difference is legal staus and formal training...

again... ITS A RIGHT TO REFUSE BUSINESS, what does the UK not give rights to their business to reject person?, i know in north america you have the right... i've helped run a business before, its something i've already had to deal with.

it might not be the most kindest thing to do but they were within their rights; assuming businesses in the UK have roughly the same type of rights as they do here.

and no comparign them to as religion is also in adquit, religions are triained to kill and destroy things, religions arn't conditioned tjhat way... soldiers are regardless of from what country. in this respect they are no different than gang member in most respect less the two main reason aforementioned.


ok and by your own admission you'd have supported the nazi's because "a whole country did"... this tells me loads abotu you as a person... and its disgusting... i would NEVER EVER murder because someone told me to... you are a tool... i am an individual... you go with the grain, i happily go against it.... you see the difference.

also let me get this right... you knowingly and willingly fight in a war you know (or atleast feel) is illegal.... agains tyhis screams looads about your character... or more acurately your lack of character.


"I don't disagree that terrorist is a convenient label, and I agree everyone has a right to fight for their country, beliefs, and passions. You never asked, so how can you accuse me of being, 'as foolish,' especially if I consider this an illegal war? I cannot emphasize more strongly though, that this thread is not about a hotel protesting the war, but bad policy and treatment of a soldier."

btw what i suggest was that refusing soldiers is a form of protest NOT THAT THEY DID IT IN PROTEST.
 
  by: HAVOC666     09/07/2008 02:20 AM     
  It's bad.  
 
Why should a guy be refused a hotel room because he is a member of the armed forces.
That is discrimination and as such is illegal.
Sure people have the right to protest, but why take it out on the servant and not the master?
Member's of the armed forces should not be made to feel second class, and shame on you to say that.
These men and women who serve in all the forces do for a number of reasons, job training, adventure, security and for the US a chance to get a higher education after the term of engagement.
Politicians start the wars and that is who should be protested.
As for criminal acts or violation of the code of engagement, soldier can refuse such orders.
One case that does come to mind is that of Ben Griffin of the SAS.


 
  by: thinking   09/07/2008 05:14 AM     
  I Agree With Kroww  
 
Going to defend your country,and going under orders are one thing. If you go to bring others misery and kill to satisfy your ego or for some personal profit then you will not be welcome at my door.
 
  by: ichi     09/07/2008 05:34 AM     
  ^__^  
 
Havoc, habibi,

Let us make a comparison between your reply and your first post, okay?:
Reply:
"what i suggest was that refusing soldiers is a form of protest NOT THAT THEY DID IT IN PROTEST."

1st post:
"i wonder what the reason was the the no military personnel policy is... i'm guessing this was their way of protesting the war... to an extent i could see it working."

No further questions there.

I still am challenging you to show me legally where you can refuse service to someone for ANYTHING. I would like to point out, for the United States, that the Civil Rights Act of 1964, Title II covers these rights:
http://www.usdoj.gov/...

It also provides the exception of, 'private clubs.'

In Canada, I am to understand that there is a 'Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms,' and that is hand in hand with Province specific Human Rights Codes. Is this correct? Your example of running a business is only pertinent with both of those documents, I think.

While I'm not phenomenally educated on the do's and don't in the U.K. either, I would like to point out the Equality Act of 2006. Can any UK'er point us in the right direction?: http://www.opsi.gov.uk/...

It is, of course, only important what the rules are in the U.K. in this article, and not the US and it's cousin to the north.

No, my points are valid, regardless of my examples of race, religion, or employment. These rights cover it pretty well, I think. Am I missing anything?

Haha, you don't have to believe me to know that you enjoy rights provided by your government, by it's military, and the constitution and provincial laws written. Taking your rights into your own hand might make you feel like you are in control of your own destiny to say it, and you can enjoy the right feel that way. Reading your posts, it seems like you are pounding your chest while you type it, which would actually explain a lot about your grammar..

You would spit on me, and anyone like me? I wouldn't. Even for those who disagree with me. I don't understand how this actually solves anything except making you feel better.

Nazis, my dear friend? -
You didn't read my post very well, and I think it takes a lot more character to put myself in their place, and say with honesty, 'I dont know,' then to play and pretend like I would've been a foundation of insight and light. Perhaps I am disgusting, but that is only because I have woke up and not showered yet. ;_;

Throwing a temper tantrum because I don't agree with the war does not help anyone. Again, by paying taxes, everyone to a degree supports the war, by re-voting Bush into office (speaking U.S. only) we as a country supported the continued war efforts, so there are varying degrees of support. Not every purpose in the military is to kill, kill, kill. You see that everyday because that is what the media feeds you. I think it's terrible what happened, and instead of blame, blame, blame, I would hope that people want to find a way to help mend this poor broken country. Soldiers throwing down their arms doesn't fix anything and creates a black hole of security there, a void to be filled with only god knows what other evil. You can't go back in time to undo a mistake, even as big as this.

But in our constant both publicized and unnoticed "cold wars," by being present a military protects its people, it's country, as a whole. There are bean-counters everywhere in the world that constantly ask, 'what if we/they..' and calculate the risk of war. The military IS what prevents many wars from taking place before the killing begins. This is the truth. Whether you agree or not.

So until the day comes where no one wishes to harm another, even with my internal conflict over Iraq, I will not feel like my service was wasted. I do see the potential for change and a better government. The system, while flawed terribly, is not beyond some measure of repair, and those soldiers that many would choose to spit on, will continue to offer their support.
 
  by: Rajl Al-Mumtir   09/07/2008 12:50 PM     
 
 
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