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10/17/2008 10:25 PM ID: 74098 Permalink   

School Criticized After Punishing Autistic Girl

 

A school in Des Moines, Iowa is facing sharp criticism and a lawsuit after an eight year old autistic girl was put in a three hour time out.

After failing to complete a reading assignment within the specified time frame the girl was sent to a converted storage area under a staircase where she was left alone for three hours, eventually wetting herself.

Some experts claim that time out rooms are being used increasingly to punish children who have behavioral disorders. It is claimed that this kind of punishment is abusive and counterproductive, especially among children with special needs.

 
  Source: news.yahoo.com  
    WebReporter: ZCT Show Calling Card      
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  42 Comments
  
  Yes  
 
The girl really ought to have a staff dedicated to her. The more diseased or disabled the person is, clearly, the more resources society must provide to them. It all goes towards demonstrating the validity of that axiom about protecting the weakest members, etc, and justifying Kant. The brown ring around the mouth is a "gold star of social responsibility, that we maintain such people." Brings a tear to my eye, really
 
  by: Big Bird     10/17/2008 11:19 PM     
  Fair is Fair  
 
If that is how they would have punished a non-autistic girl then this is fine. You want to be treated the same then you will be treated the same in all things, not just the ones you want. On the other hand, if this is not a normal punishment then that school is so going to get sued and rightly so.
 
  by: qwerty017   10/17/2008 11:35 PM     
  an autistic child  
 
IMO should not attend public schools if they are not capable of performing up to academic standards. Who can pretend to know what it is like to be struck with impaired social interactions. The school should not be sued but the one who disciplined this child should be tasered.
 
  by: John E Angel     10/18/2008 12:01 AM     
  @qwerty017  
 
You're such a cold, cold person. I'm diagnosed with quite a bit of problems like ADD and learning disabilities. I have a long range of good and bad thinking days. On a good day, I can complete work fine. On a bad day, however, my brain shuts down even though I've done that kind of work before.

You shouldn't punish a person all because teachers don't want to take the time to teach those with learning problems. That is the problem with education today.

When I was in high school, teachers would fail me just because they didn't feel like taking the extra time to teach me the way I'm able to understand things. By the time I was a senior, I only had half the credits needed to graduate and was dropped down to a junior.

After constantly being pushed around without any kind of assistance that I could use, I went for my GED. Thank God I took my GED testing on a good day. I was able to pass all of my needed areas on the test with more than 10 points past the needed amount. I did get 1 point behind though on a Math section. I took the second test with only the math section I needed to complete. I passed that more than 10 points needed to complete it. I was even given more time to take the tests because of my documented problems but I did well anyways.

If you can't take the time to give someone with documented learning problems the attention they need, and the learning techniques they require to do well, then QUIT teaching. Not everyone is "normal" and capable of learning things on that same level.
 
  by: SunDown   10/18/2008 12:17 AM     
  Why...  
 
are aborant creatures allowed near children like this?

I would never allow these coachroaches any where near my gold fish let alone a child with needs such as hers and they have the responsibility?

What a rotton world.
 
  by: captainJane     10/18/2008 12:23 AM     
  @Sundown  
 
>>You're such a cold, cold person.
::Not cold at all. I just feel that equality is equality. You want to be treated the same as everyone else then you get treated the same as everyone else. You get taught the same, you get punished the same.
>>I'm diagnosed with quite a bit of problems like ADD and learning disabilities.
::Ok.
>>I have a long range of good and bad thinking days.
::So do all students.
>>On a good day, I can complete work fine. On a bad day, however, my brain shuts down even though I've done that kind of work before.
::Some people have test anxiety.
>>You shouldn't punish a person all because teachers don't want to take the time to teach those with learning problems.
::They teach to the maximum amount of people in the most efficient way possible. If someone doesn't understand something they can ask a question or get a tutor. Students have been doing that since immemorial.
>>That is the problem with education today.
::No. The problem with education today is that everyone feels they are special. Everyone thinks that even though most of the students were able to learn something, the fat that they didn't is somehow the teachers fault.
>>When I was in high school, teachers would fail me just because they didn't feel like taking the extra time to teach me the way I'm able to understand things.
:No. You and your parents failed you by not getting a tutor or asking questions when you didn't know something. It is not the teachers responsibility to try and teach to every human foible. Otherwise they would need to teach the same thing any number of times depending on how every single student just happens to learn best.
>>If you can't take the time to give someone with documented learning problems the attention they need, and the learning techniques they require to do well, then QUIT teaching.
::Ok. So you do want to be treated special. I thought we were supposed to treat you as equals.
>>Not everyone is "normal" and capable of learning things on that same level.
::Most are. That's why it is termed "normal."
 
  by: qwerty017   10/18/2008 12:40 AM     
  3 hours?  
 
that's not a punishment. that's being forgotten.
 
  by: calilac     10/18/2008 12:50 AM     
  @Caddilac  
 
Well you may consider that forgotten, but for an autistic, that's a few minutes of staring at the wall drooling. Not very distinct from ever other number of minutes, hours, days, and years over the course of their life they will spending doing that exact same thing, mostly of their own accord.

@Sun

Hahah, you're a joke. They trained intelligent, willful people to believe they were stupid and diseased. They called it ADD.

These people are drugged and conditioned to become manual austistic, dependent on outside intervention.

You ever watch an "ADD" kid at play? On a game console? Or outside with other kids? They like to roughhouse, so other kids may not like them. That's not the point.

The point is, they have no problem paying attention, and are quite skilled at THINGS THAT INTEREST THEM AND ARE FUN. That's not a disease in any of itself. What is required of them to be socially responsible people, that they are neglecting in order to pursue those interests, that is where the "disease" component comes in. They don't lack the ability to focus. They just aren't concerned with what others think of them, or inclined to take outside direction.

That makes them dangerously intelligent in a very practical, if selfish and unstructured way.

Therefore the must be broken into social cripples, believing they have a disease. They are brought to heel through a Munchassen-like conditioning process and medicated into submission.

Their intellects are then treated as resources to be utilized by others. They are patronized and controlled for external benefit -- like every good boy or girl should submit to.

Hence, ADD as a classification and ergo its "treatment."

That's enough philosophy and psychology for today children.

ADD isn't a disease. Neither is smart; it also isn't very popular, but being popular with the idiots holds such limited value. The worst they do is taser and drug you... I say, ADD children, go for it! PLAY VIDEO GAMES ALL DAY! DO IT! YAH!

Don't quote me on that
 
  by: Big Bird     10/18/2008 01:29 AM     
  @Big_Bird  
 
What? Autism doesn't affect all people in the same way. There are lesser and greater degrees to it. Some are like you said. Others are functional. The main point though is that if she had been left there because she was forgotten then this is a good lawsuit. She shouldn't be punished any more than another student who broke the same rule.
 
  by: qwerty017   10/18/2008 01:44 AM     
  @big bird & qwerty  
 
@big bird

i agree about ADD, they tried affixing that label to me way backwhen... their miracle answer; ritalin. my doctor at the time actually bragged to my parent (infront of me) about "putting thousands of kids on drugs"... i have never met nor heard of a drug dealer worse than that doctor... and these doctors are everywhere.

not paying attention is a natural side effect of boring... and is only the problem it is as a result of minimal educational standards and effort (by the teachers) in a linear fashion. natural learning processes are hindered in most school environments.


@qwerty

well i hope you dont have kids, you obviously don't understand that diffferent kids have different need... equality is treating everyone equally not treating everyone as though they are the exact same person with the exact same needs.

yes many parents are failing the kids... but so are MOST teachers... in my education i've had only a few decent to good teachers, and i remeber all of them

mr. mahoney
mr. mulland (both of them)
mr. cameron
mr. yacheti
mrs. brittian

6 decent to good teachers out of several dozen in 4 different schools ranging from between grade 1 to grade 12 and no less than 80 different classes, yet only 6 decent or good teachers... thats an abysmal failure record for teachers... if i ever did that badly at any job i'd be fired immediately, yet teachers are mostly content with their failure because they cant see it can just pass it off to the parents, who are also at fault butthis is done to absolve them of blame for not doing their job or doing a bad job of it.

i used to understand triganometry but then a teacher explained it to me... my father is a better amthe teacher than any teacher i ever had, and thus i was one of few people that could do trig befoere middle school; let alone high school... when they brought cin tan and cos in i was lost, namely becasue (i think) the calculator was doing all the work as per the teacher instruction as opposed to when my father taught me and all i had was paper, a pencil and a question. this was part of my punishment for getting suspended in grade 3, the other half (first half) was times tables up to 13x13 (because school was only covering up to 12x12; and my father expected more from the school system).

so yes the school system is a failure, one that i've experienced first hand like only a very small percentage of student ever do, no to mention the school system shuns effiencent answers in replace "proper answers" for instance algebra they want you to have a seperate line for addition/ subtraction, multiplication/divisions and bracket and exponents. whereas i only ever did it two line addition/subtraction/multiplication/division and bracket/exponents... hence even when i got 100% of the questions right my grade was 50% because "they couldn't understand", yet it was clear as day and right, just with one less line wasted... teacher like this are not teachers at all by anything except their pay (which is way too high for their proformance for the most part, if i ever did a job so bad i'd be fired) and label (anyone can be called a teacher, chances are you've learned more from people on the internet than from teacher in school, these people on the internet even though they dont get paid are no less an educator than the failures we pay i nthe school system.

i'm all for education, but i am funtamentally opposed to the school system as it stands.
 
  by: HAVOC666     10/18/2008 02:59 AM     
  @qwerty  
 
Fair is fair. If they make a law requiring the kid to be there, the law also has to say they have to look after them. Okay. Why don't they?

Oh, no one gets fired from a government job, or a union job. Or ever, ever from a government union job. Unless they spy for foreign countries, or molest kids or something really henious like that.

Guess that neglect is cool, but molestation is a no-no.

Somewhere in between is what they should shoot for in my opinion.
 
  by: Big Bird     10/18/2008 03:01 AM     
  UNBELIEVEABLE  
 
You people disgust me. You are obviously so ignorant that you do not care to even educate yourself about the subject before you open your big mouths. You have NO idea what you're talking about. All children are different. Stop comparing today to when you went to school because it is completely different.
People with disabilities have it hard enough. Why can't we level the playing field? Why must they be scrutinized and made fun of because a couple of loser students didn't try when they were in school.
PICK UP A F****N BOOK before you talk again.
Teachers are trying to finally make a difference and change the way things used to be done. I guess you would like to just keep it the same and forget about the ones who have a little trouble. I can't wait until you have a child in that position and all the sudden you're singing a different tune....and you know what?...I'll be there to teach and help your child in anyway that I can....because obviously he/she won't be getting any support at home.

You should be ashamed of your lack of humanity.
 
  by: ChristineSIS   10/18/2008 03:31 AM     
  @qwerty017  
 
You know I signed up here just to tell you how much of a short sighted moron you are after reading your comments.

By your logic, everyone on the planet needs to fill a cut and dry standard. Someone who doesn't have legs for example shouldn't be expected to ever drive again because god forbid people should come up with ways for people with disabilities to drive. Thankfully because the world isn't full of ignorant sacks of horse excrement like yourself, there have indeed been methods developed for people with no legs to drive.

Or howabout people with food allergies? You think manufacturers don't have a right to inform people that the product they are selling may contain things that can cause people to die from an adverse reaction? By your line of thinking, hey, why should they, right? it's not their fault the people with the allergies were born different. Let them die!

People with wheelchairs use handicap accessible ramps in the real world, because people understand they have SPECIAL NEEDS in order ot get around Do you see society telling them stay home because we don't want to make ramps for them because they can't use stairs?

You have a lot to learn about life, kid.
 
  by: Vel   10/18/2008 04:22 AM     
  @Big_Bird  
 
"Well you may consider that forgotten, but for an autistic, that's a few minutes of staring at the wall drooling. Not very distinct from ever other number of minutes, hours, days, and years over the course of their life they will spending doing that exact same thing, mostly of their own accord."

That's your opinion of the people who have autism?
o_0
And don't even pretend to be some expert on it because you obviously are not. I wouldn't even believe it if you claimed to have met anyone suffering from autism. To be perfectly frank I didn't give a damn whether the girl was "special" or not, the "punishment" is completely innapropriate. 3 hours in a closet FOR ANY CHILD is being forgotten and borderline abuse. Are you implying that you would leave your (hypothetical)child in a closet for 3 hours as a punishment? Not even your own child, but someone else's? Whoever said that she shouldn't've been in the classroom in the first place if her head problem was affecting her schoolwork has a point but that's no excuse for shoving her in the cupboard for hours because she's uncooperative!
 
  by: calilac     10/18/2008 05:16 AM     
  Shameful  
 
Watch,Someone will go to far and a parent is going to lash out and spray some lead at a idiots who do crap like this.
 
  by: Mannyishere     10/18/2008 05:20 AM     
  Odd  
 
I think this is a pretty weird situation quite frankly.

I don't really see that students need to be punished for failing to complete a reading assignment.

If a child is not learning properly, either the teacher sucks or the child has some kind of learning disability. In any case locking the child in a closet for three hours is not going to fix anything.

To a normal eight year old three hours is almost an eternity. There is no excuse for a three hour time out for any reason. There is no lesson to be learned in that third hour that has not already been learned in the first hour.

In fact I'd guess quite the opposite. I would imagine that the longer you stay in time out, the more likely it is that the punishment begins to have a negative effect rather than positive.

So yeah, all pretty stupid. It was either a mistake, incompetence or stupidity. In any case, sounds like a reasonable lawsuit in this day and age.
 
  by: ZCT     10/18/2008 06:30 AM     
  Not Borderline  
 
Forcing a child into a closet is ABUSE.
PLAIN AND SIMPLE. Imagine your boss/partner/parents etc. putting you in a closet for three hours or until however long it takes for you to piss in your pants and then sit there for awhile! The poor child will remember this forever. qwerty why don't you try it and let us know what it's like, but make the test real, put a rubber ball in your mouth so you can't communicate.
Seriously, the practice of isolation should clearly be a violation of constitutional and human rights with
CRIMINAL repercussions.
At what other time are children left without supervision? Virtually none, and certainly not for more than a short time. The child was obviously too frightened to even ask to go to the restroom. PARENTS should not tolerate such treatment of their kids.
Putting kids in a closet just shows that these so called teachers don't have the EDUCATION to handle discipline. "Back when I was in school" we got sent to the principal's office and were ALWAYS being watched.
The teacher in this case was obviously NOT QUALIFIED to teach even "normal" students, and NEEDS RETRAINING at a minimum. Teachers Unions in their current form are a huge problem because they don't take RESPONSIBILITY for the performance of their members.
True unions, trade unions like electrical workers, pipe fitters, carpenters, all go thru apprentice programs and provide educational TRAINING, without which you don't get licensed! It takes years to get an electricians license, plus school. Teachers go to school and then get thrown into a classroom, when
they should be required to start as TA's for at least 1yr. Most of our schools are so far behind the rest of the world that we need to look to other countries to figure out what we're doing wrong. As for the lawsuit, I hope it goes to the Supreme Court and that isolation is found to be a violation of civil rights nation wide.
 
  by: OhAncientOne   10/18/2008 08:25 AM     
  a 3 hour time out  
 
under stairs, without an adult around is wrong in any case, autistic or not.

To send and autistic 8 year old to a time out for 3 hours and expect to even remember what they were there for later is pretty retarded in itself... hell I wouldn't expect a "normal" 8 year old to react too differently.

On a side note, this news appears to be about 4 years old, since the picture in the source says she is now 12.
 
  by: skittlesloli   10/18/2008 08:39 AM     
  I know two...  
 
Autistic children who both are not able to withstand 30 minutes without yelping or doing something they are not "supposed" to be doing. But even still I would not dream of denying them an education or of treating them this way. One is my wife's best friend's adopted daughter, the other is my brother's step-daughter.
Even though neither girl will ever be able to take care of themselves, society should still give them the same chance as anyone else, just in case something sticks.
If any of the people on here who have had harsh things to say on this matter had a daughter, handicapped or not, that were treated in this manner, I think they would be singing a different tune!
This is a lawsuit plain and simple.
 
  by: Allanthar     10/18/2008 09:42 AM     
  @A bunch of people  
 
@HAVOC666
There is a difference between a parent and a teacher. The main difference is that a parent can be 1-on-1 with a child to give them spcialized help when needed. A teacher on the other hand needs to try and teach the argest group of students the most they can learn. That is not a fault of the teachers. It is just the way they need to do things. As for your comment about doing things differently than the teacher says to, tough. The teacher wants you to do things one way then you do them that way. Don't blame the teacher just because you couldn't follow their instructions.
I finished school in 2000, just before the No-Child-Left-Behind Act came into full force so I don't know how much things have changed since then.


@Big_Bird
I honestly don't undestand what you are talking about.


@Vel
Welcome to Shortnews.
Where are you getting your ideas about me from? By my logic, if someone can't do things as they are now then they should get help, not hold everyone else up. By my logic they should get the stuff to be able to drive, but they should not expect the Drivers Ed people in a school to teach them anything beyond what they are teaching the rest of the students in class.
By my logic, if a person wants to considered equal then they do everything THEY can to make it that way. Don't expect others to treat you as an equal if you force them to treat you differently.
 
  by: qwerty017   10/18/2008 12:14 PM     
  @qwerty017  
 
I agree with you 100%!
 
  by: Korzen   10/18/2008 04:05 PM     
  @qwerty  
 
"There is a difference between a parent and a teacher. The main difference is that a parent can be 1-on-1 with a child to give them spcialized help when needed. A teacher on the other hand needs to try and teach the argest group of students the most they can learn. That is not a fault of the teachers. It is just the way they need to do things."

no its not the way they NEED to do things... its just the way they are done... AND IT DOESN"T WORK. the educational level in north american shows it doesn't work and the dropout rate peroces it doesn't work.

"As for your comment about doing things differently than the teacher says to, tough. The teacher wants you to do things one way then you do them that way. Don't blame the teacher just because you couldn't follow their instructions."

listen... i answered the questions properly (correctly), just with less wasted space if you or the teacher cant understand a more efficent method thats your fault and their fault not mine... dont blame me for being smarter than you or they. that don't fly with me anymore then the back of my hand would fly with you. i explained how i got my answer SHE DIDN'T understand it because its not the way SHE WAS TAUGHT... again not my fault. do you blame a physicist when he find a simplier formula to solve the same question... no never why, because they found a smarter way to work the equation... so did i. a right answer is a right answer even if it is done in a more effiecent way, as i prove time and time again... and was punished for time and time again...

but i didn't care... school never ment anything to me, because it was a failed system, nor does it to me today, education is great, the school system sucks, its failed, and needs a complete overhaul... teachers, circircullum, even the classroom environment... the works

but there were things i didn't do in school at all... like stand for the national antheme... i refuse for the last 2 years of my schooling, why, i do no believe in the national atheme, nor do or did i believe in the state that canada was in.

there was a book isimply didn't read "forest gump" the english that book was written in was so bad i couldn't read the book... my mind doesn't get around 4 improper sentences in a row, instead i opted for "hannibal" by thomas harris... needless to say a much better book which you need a better understanding of english to understand... my susbstitute book wasn't what they want "forest gump" so i took a fail on that section... didn't care...

if you wanna know what school means to me, give me a diploma i'm wipe my ass with it then piss on it... thats what it means to me... bleak view or indifference, not that it matters but i'll let you decidefor yourself.

i was one of the VERY FEW student actually in school to learn; not to meet some standardized requirement that i was beyond beefore they introduced it to the class, nor doing it for my parents me... the school system failed to teach me just about anything new aside from a few of the finer points of some technology classes i took via hands on works... so i left... then a year later i was getting pressured to go back "to give school another chance" needless to say a year later nothing changed and thusly it could only fail again... and i left yet again.. and its not something i would ever regret even if it did likely make my life alittle harder.

i maintain i consistently learned more out of school since about grade 3 than i ever did in school... as sad as that fact may be.

"I finished school in 2000, just before the No-Child-Left-Behind Act came into full force so I don't know how much things have changed since then."

my experience comes from the canadian school system which from what i've heard is better then the US school system (public school; not college or university) which i have very limited experience with personally.

the school system here has been a failure since before i was born... apparently it was great back in the 70's... and from some of the 70's textbooks i've seen i'd have to agree.

i didn't get to highschool until you finished.
 
  by: HAVOC666     10/18/2008 04:58 PM     
  bad error  
 
*"and the dropout rate proves it doesn't work."*

thgat one needed to be corrected.
 
  by: HAVOC666     10/18/2008 05:08 PM     
  OMFG  
 
WFT is wrong with you people!? I have a son with autism who attends a mainstream public school, if anything like that happend to him or my other children i would sue the hell outta them! You are all too quick to pass judgement on something yo have no idea about, why dont you get a clue or shut your traps! No wonder this world is going to shit with foul mouthed evil people like you lot in it. FACT there is no reason for a child with autism to go to a special school, they are no danger to other children at all, they just dont learn as quickly because they have a limited understanding of life. Your nothing but a load of childish tw@'s!
 
  by: taz666   10/18/2008 08:32 PM     
  @a couple of people  
 
@HAVOC666
Ok. I hate to tell you this but teachers do have to teach the way they do. If they taught to every single child they would need to repeat the lesson any number of times because every child learns differently. They teach the way they do because it is the way that most children learn.

@taz666
Who said they needed to go to a special school? I said that if they want to be treated like equals then they have to accept the same punishments as the other children. If they learn slower then they should study more or get a tutor so as to not hold up the rest of the class, just like the other students have to if they don't understand something.
 
  by: qwerty017   10/18/2008 09:32 PM     
  Hell Now I know  
 
Where all the goose stepping MF went after the 2nd world war their alive and living In IOWA...
Pull their brains throo their ass holes. And then put them in a cell and throw away the key..
 
  by: steve2045     10/18/2008 09:49 PM     
  @Christine  
 
you should look at the teachers again they are more lazy and dont want to teach the ones that need help

im in a wheelchair so i was in them same classes with some of the challenged and they were yelling at them just because they picked their nose. people today dont want to help anyone but themselves
 
  by: groomsy     10/18/2008 11:31 PM     
  so...  
 
QWERTY said: "Who said they needed to go to a special school? I said that if they want to be treated like equals then they have to accept the same punishments as the other children."

I ask you this: Who said 'they' wanted to be treated like equals?

First of all, peoples autism varies in degrees, I worked with twins, 17-yrs-old, who rode horses, worked their families farm by doing supervised chores.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but autism directly limits the attention span. Hence peoples confusion with that and ADD.

So the yes there is also a difference as far as teaching is concerned, however it's not so different that both non-autistic and autistic students couldn't both benefit from it. And that is to make the lesson plans richer in content, hands on for classes that can use physical items. For instance passing around a flag for students to touch while discussing history or an old abacus while talking about algebraic equations.. perhaps these are not the best examples but I believe you all could follow me.

I was most bored in classes that did not encourage your own feedback during that class while other classes that did encourage Q&A, I excelled in.

I worked at the age of 14 and 15 at a summer camp with people of various disabilities, Cerebral Palsy, Blind, Downs Syndrome and when I turned 18 I was employed as a supervisor for working for the behavioral handicapped for 5 years.
 
  by: RAD     10/19/2008 12:32 AM     
  oops  
 
guess overall my point being that, timeouts are for behavior problems more-so then not finishing an assignment, so in my judgment I think the schools policy was wrong if indeed it was their policy to timeout non-behavior issues. FOr an autistic person to be "timed-out" for 3 hours is not only stupid, but is triple frustrating for the autistic person who, remember, has a smaller attention span.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it
 
  by: RAD     10/19/2008 12:36 AM     
  Hmm  
 
While I agree that the girl shouldn't have been punished like that, kids like that do not belong in normal classrooms. That's why they invented SPED.

As it is now, most schools are already overcrowded and teachers have enough of a time dealing with the little assholes now. Parents really need to step up and start helping actually raise their children instead of expecting the school system to do it for them.
 
  by: orthiad   10/19/2008 04:04 AM     
  @ort  
 
i think the point is that no 8 year old boy or girl should of been left for 3 hours let alone one that had autism

my nephew has aspergers which is sort of a backwards autism, he is a great kid but also he needs more time of someone to himself to help him
 
  by: groomsy     10/19/2008 04:25 AM     
  @A bunch of people  
 
@RAD, @ortiad, and @groomsy
I agree completely with what you are saying. 3 hours is too long for an 8 year old to be locked in a room. What I do not agree with is the idea that because she was autistic it somehow makes it worse.
 
  by: qwerty017   10/19/2008 08:35 AM     
  @Story  
 
I feel that the girl should be in a special needs class if she is not capable of keeping up. Putting someone on time out for 3 hours with out supervision is a bit pathetic but. Also @sun down's, comment on not being given enough time in class, if you can not get through school with out special treatment how do you plan on keeping up when you get into the real world. I went to a private school for my entire highschool years and the teachers there bent over backwards for "slow learners", and for what they all Finnished school and they have no idea how to fit in to normal society, they cant keep up at work. What employer in there right mind is going to higher someone that has good days and bad days. At school i sucked at maths, when i left school i became a database analyst/developer that worked with large amounts of financial data and statistical information interpreting, calculating, forecasting. I don't blame my school for doing shit, it was my doing, i didn't make excuses.
 
  by: shiftyfarker   10/19/2008 10:56 AM     
  @shifty + qwerty  
 
I've done better in educating myself out of school than I was in school.

"Also @sun down's, comment on not being given enough time in class, if you can not get through school with out special treatment how do you plan on keeping up when you get into the real world."

Let me clarify you on that. I never asked for "special treatment". Asking people to explain things in a way so it's easier to understand is not what you call "special treatment".

It's always funny to see people say that those with learning problems are "making excuses" and how "we want people to bend over backwards" for us. Wrong completely. Only thing a lot of people ask for is just if we can have some things explained differently.

Those "normal" people can't understand what it's like to be in my shoes and those with disabilities. The ignorance shows greatly in the way you try to portray things.

@Qwerty "::Some people have test anxiety." I didn't mention anything about tests. Hell, I wasn't even talking about school.

":No. You and your parents failed you by not getting a tutor or asking questions when you didn't know something. It is not the teachers responsibility to try and teach to every human foible. Otherwise they would need to teach the same thing any number of times depending on how every single student just happens to learn best." Now here is where your ignorance really shines and shows your lack of thought and understanding.

During school, I did ask for things like a tutor and I've asked for help. The only problem is they never bothered to move with it. I love how people like you assume that my mom and I had "failed" in the school system. The problem is that: you assume something you know nothing about.

The ignorance and one-sided thinking shows in a lot of people here, obviously. You can't understand because you choose not too and you "assume" the only things that aren't even realistic.
 
  by: SunDown   10/19/2008 03:50 PM     
  @shiftyfarker  
 
“I feel that the girl should be in a special needs class if she is not capable of keeping up.”

- I agree. Although not being able to complete a single assignment within a deadline is hardly evidence of that.

“Putting someone on time out for 3 hours with out supervision is a bit pathetic but.”

- I would call it either gross incompetence or gross negligence, depending on exactly how it happened. Most of us would find it very tedious to be locked in an isolation room for three hours, but to an eight year old autistic girl, it must have been pretty unpleasant.

In any case, she was either forgotten about, in which case it was negligent, or it was deliberate. If it were deliberate, then it shows a horrific understanding of education concepts. For a teacher to believe that a slower student will learn a lesson from being locked in a room for three hours demonstrates a stupidity that should simply disqualify that person from being in the education system at all.

“Also @sun down's, comment on not being given enough time in class, if you can not get through school with out special treatment how do you plan on keeping up when you get into the real world.”

- I’m sure the eight year old autistic girl was not planning anything particularly. She was just wondering why some mean adult had locked her under the stairs.

Besides, maybe her future career will be as an artist, glass blower, or musician. Who knows what relevance that specific class has to her future? But regardless of all that, I can’t see any logic for deliberately punishing a child who was slow on an assignment.

“I went to a private school for my entire highschool years and the teachers there bent over backwards for "slow learners", and for what they all Finnished school and they have no idea how to fit in to normal society, they cant keep up at work.”

- I think you might be making some sweeping generalizations here. There is no evidence that children who attend private schools leave school unable to keep up with society. You seem to be suggesting that no effort should be made to help students who are slower.

“What employer in there right mind is going to higher someone that has good days and bad days.”

- Once you get into that kind of logic, you might just as well opt for the Spartan concept of throwing special needs kids off a mountain.

“At school i sucked at maths, when i left school i became a database analyst/developer that worked with large amounts of financial data and statistical information interpreting, calculating, forecasting. I don't blame my school for doing shit, it was my doing, i didn't make excuses.”

- Well this story isn’t about you. It’s about some girl you don’t know. Some girl who was badly treated by a school. Perhaps the lawsuit will earn her enough money for college.
 
  by: ZCT     10/19/2008 04:00 PM     
  @sundown  
 
>>I didn't mention anything about tests. Hell, I wasn't even talking about school.
::I was showing that all students have things that make them shut down.
>>Now here is where your ignorance really shines and shows your lack of thought and understanding.
::Ok.
>>During school, I did ask for things like a tutor and I've asked for help. The only problem is they never bothered to move with it.
::So the fact that you didn't follow up to make sure you recieved help is their fault?
>>I love how people like you assume that my mom and I had "failed" in the school system. The problem is that: you assume something you know nothing about.
::No. You did fail in the school system. You said so yourself that you finally had to take the GED because the teachers didn't want to treat you better than the other students by teaching down to them so you could stay with the class.
>>The ignorance and one-sided thinking shows in a lot of people here, obviously.
::Such as your inability to come to terms with the fact that your not learning was not dependant upon the teachers but upon yourself.
>>You can't understand because you choose not too and you "assume" the only things that aren't even realistic.
::No. I worked in a Disability Resource Center for 5 years. I've seen every type of disability and I know what is realistic. The students that make it are the ones that go out of their way so that the teachers don't have to do anything special for them and can treat them like everyone else in the class. The ones that don't are the ones that want the teacher to treat them special and to teach so that they can understand.
 
  by: qwerty017   10/19/2008 04:11 PM     
  @sundown  
 
You know what. Never mind. I'm not going to sit here and argue with you about this. You're going to believe whatever you want to believe and nothing will ever change your mind. See you on another topic.
 
  by: qwerty017   10/19/2008 04:42 PM     
  @qwerty  
 
get checked into to a mental evaluation and get sterilized immediately after... obviously no child should be in your care as you have ABOLUTELY NO UNDERSTANDING of children... or even people outside of the social/mental norm.

you have demostrated you would be an unfit parent and certianly an unequiped teacher... please refrain from ever getting involved with children in any way.

i would slap you up and down the street or anyone else for that matter for blaming the kids for mental disorder THAT ARE IN NO WAY THEIR FAULT... you are dispicable right now.

its a teachers job to teach... if they aren't doing that thats THEIR FAULT... THEIR LACK OF TRAINING... THEIR IGNORANCE even... just as it is yours being deplayed in all its socially digusting "glory".

again place stay away from kids... i would flip a bird if i heard heard about someone like you around kids... esspecially if they were mine.
 
  by: HAVOC666     10/19/2008 04:56 PM     
  @Gloomsy  
 
I can understand that 3 hours in time out is over the limit but if the child cannot keep up with a normal class then they shouldn't be placed in a normal class unless the class is small enough the teacher can pay extra attention to the needy student.

My boyfriend actually has aspergers and ADHD.
 
  by: orthiad   10/19/2008 10:21 PM     
  Yawn  
 
All you guys are doing are bitching to each other. I hardly agree with any of you. Querty is right about the ADD thing. But the real truth is that teachers are your parents at school. Schools should do the best to give kids at least the minimum they need to survive. Yes there will be smart people. But we can't get to everyone. We can give out a special ed program, and work with the kids. But schools are not being paid enough to do half of what they are doing already. I'm not a teacher but these are the simple truths that are baing taught to me
 
  by: Pikachu206   10/20/2008 05:01 AM     
  @ZCT & Sundown  
 
Let me clarify my argument. ZCT most of my comments were for sundown, i feel that autistic & other developmentally challenged children should not be in "normal" classes if they can not keep up, they should be in classes with teachers that are trained to accommodate there needs and understand there condition, i think that they will have a better change finding there place in the world if they are given the special attention that they need with people that are like them. I know this is segregation but who's great idea was it to put an autistic girl in a class where she is going to stand out can't get the attention that she needs with a teacher that obviously has no clue. @Sundown, my interpretation of you original post was the you were drawing some likeness between an autistic child and someone that has "good and bad thinking days" trivializing this poor girls condition. A lot of my comments were based on observations of people that were my friends and whom i went to school with, the kids that were slower while getting extra time to complete assignments, more attention from the teachers, special classes everyday of the week that were designed to explain the work that they had done during the day, readers and writers for exams there results were still appalling, they were also the same kids that picked on people, got in trouble all the time. Meanwhile all these resources are being spend on them, time is being taken away from children that want to learn and for what, kids that when the graduate(if they graduate) are going to have a shit time trying to get a job and keeping it because they have had there hand held the whole way through school, they are left in a situation where they expect to be treated differently and expect to be given more time. I think the best thing that can be done is to offer guidance, acknowledge that the kids has issues learning, provide them with the information that is required to complete the work and tell them to be successful not just at school but in life you are going to have to put more effort in then most other people, that means ask the teacher after class for clarification, do extra homework to get the information in your head, get practice exam questions before exams, teach them and prepare them to be able to keep up without expecting anything from anyone because the fact is that its harsh competitive world out there. I really believe with school no matter your situation you get out of it what you put in, if you have trouble learning you are going to have to work harder. 1 thing i learn't when i left school is that school is not everything, i sucked at school but i have a high aptitude for computers some people are like that with electronics and other with mechanics, you just have to find your place in society but don't expect anyone to hand everything to you. A lot of people find it easier to learn when they relate it to something they are interested in, for instance every chance that i would get for assignment and work i would you my computer skills to allow me to understand what is being taught and to interpret and present information, it is not feasible for a teacher to custom deliver information a different way for every student it is up to the student to interpret the teachers teaching.
 
  by: shiftyfarker   10/20/2008 05:16 AM     
  My Two pence worth  
 
First of all, this "punishment" is disgraceful. What is the point for exlcuding someone for three hours for not completing an assignment. This adds nothing to the productivity of the child.

I work with both able bodied and disabled children and find the only time where a time-out is necessary is when the child is so wound up, there is the possibility of violence. In this case, segrating the child from the "incident" allows them to cool off. I tend to do this for a few minutes and then re-assess the situation. If the child doesn't calm down, then this is referred back to the parents.

The biggest issue is the disruption of the class which makes it unfair to the kids who want to do the activity. This apllies equally to all children no matter what their mental or physical state is.
 
  by: borisbeaver   10/20/2008 11:56 AM     
 
 
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