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01/07/2009 07:43 PM ID: 76072 Permalink   

Israeli Leaders Could Face War Crimes Charges

 

The head of the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights (PCHR) , Raji Sourani has stated that the PA is to launch legal proceedings against Israeli leaders for war crimes committed in the recent attacks in Gaza.

Sourani claims "The repeated bombing of clearly marked civilian buildings, where civilians were sheltering, crosses several red lines in regard to international law".

Meanwhile the chairman of the Palestinian Health Care Committees has urged world leaders to put pressure on Israel not to fire on medical installation and health workers in the Gaza Strip.

 
  Source: www.ipsnews.net  
    WebReporter: Hugo Chavez Show Calling Card      
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  67 Comments
  
  Fat Chance  
 
Hamas has been committing war crimes for years. I guess when they fire rockets at Israeli school, homes, medical installations that doesn't count.
 
  by: lloydo   01/07/2009 08:03 PM     
  @lloydo  
 
Yes, it does count. Other people are wrong too. But that doesn't mean Israel is right.is
 
  by: Ec5618   01/07/2009 08:34 PM     
  Well, in stock trading and accounting  
 
there is something called "first in, first out," or FIFO. The same principle should apply here. That means that after they prosecute the Hamas leaders, then they can go after the Israeli leaders.
 
  by: lloydo   01/07/2009 08:41 PM     
  @lloydo  
 
"The same principle should apply here."
Why?

"That means that after they prosecute the Hamas leaders"
There are obvious disagreements over who 'started it' in this case. Those who feel Israel was first, could apply your principle to argue that Israel should be taken on first.

Why don't you already know that?
 
  by: Ec5618   01/07/2009 08:48 PM     
  Who ever started...  
 
this Israel they broke all the rules by the targeting people, killing whole families and people just trying to shrive, look at the amount of casualties there are in Gaza, they even managed to kill four of their own. They are out of control never mind Hamas
Bombing a safe zone area and UN area is not dealing with the enemy.

@ llodo, Someone like you should spend a few days there with your family and then see who the aggressor is.

 
  by: captainJane     01/07/2009 09:11 PM     
  @Ec5618  
 
I think we are talking about two different things here. According to the article, the "crime" is:
"The repeated bombing of clearly marked civilian buildings, where civilians were sheltering, crosses several red lines in regard to international law".
Hamas has been doing this regularly, practically daily, for many years.

If the crime is the result of whoever started it, you could go back to the era when Israel removed their settlements in Gaza which immediately resulted in Hamas and others firing rockets and mortars into Israel. Or, if you wnat to go back to 1948 when all the Arab nations surrounding Israel attack them. Again, I remind you, Israel has a proven track record of being a good neighbor with those who want to live in peace, the the Jordanians and Egyptians.
 
  by: lloydo   01/07/2009 09:15 PM     
  @lloydo  
 
You are still pretending that Israel is an innocent party in this. Why?
 
  by: Ec5618   01/07/2009 09:22 PM     
  Well in the field of laws and criminality  
 
Every individual, organization or nation that commits a crime punishable by law is to be tried for it by competent authority.

Find the people responsible and put them on the stand. It doesn't matter who started it, the only real victims here are the innocents bystanders who gets caught in the crossfire.
 
  by: Ryuken   01/07/2009 09:37 PM     
  @Ec5618  
 
"You are still pretending that Israel is an innocent party in this. Why?"

I never said Israel was innocent. Why are you saying Hamas is innocent? Even Abbas doesn't think that.
 
  by: lloydo   01/07/2009 09:41 PM     
  @lloydo  
 
"I never said Israel was innocent"
All you've done here, so far, is express your opinion that Israel is completely justified in doing whatever it wants to do, regardless of the number of civilian casualties.
So yes, you implied that Israel is being forced into these actions, and is thus innocent. Which is rather myopic.

"Why are you saying Hamas is innocent?"
Did I? I've tried to point out that there are different sides to this issue. You seem to be firmly on one side, which is rather unhelpful.
 
  by: Ec5618   01/07/2009 09:48 PM     
  They're both wrong  
 
Fighting against an enemy that is not bound to any international laws is tough.
 
  by: BeatBlaster   01/07/2009 09:51 PM     
  yep they're both wrong  
 
but one side is occupying the others country (illegally) and holds all the weapons and unconditional support from the US .

sigh
 
  by: Hugo Chavez     01/07/2009 09:55 PM     
  @captainJane  
 
"this Israel they broke all the rules by the targeting people, killing whole families and people just trying to shrive,"

What rules? You are describing the rules followed by Hamas. They don't deny that they have been trying to kill as many women and children as possible.In addition to firing thousands of rockets into Israeli cities, they used to send suicide bombers to attack shopping centers,night clubs and anywhere else there were civilians. As you know, this is my first day at this website so I don't know you. I appologize for thinking you are very partial in your remarks. If you have shown the same concern for the Israelis over the last many years while Hamas has been killing them, then you might be credible.

"they even managed to kill four of their own. They are out of control never mind Hamas
Bombing a safe zone area and UN area is not dealing with the enemy."

I have been in combat and know how complex it can be. Unfortunately, sometimes you do kill some of your own because of a breakdown in communications. That is sad but unavoidable. This war has been an example of preciseness unlike any other war. Modern nations use fewer munitions but they are more precise because they are laser or GPS guided. Unfortunately, when those attacking you are hiding behind civilians, there are going to be civilian casualties. Regarding the UN school situation, even Palestinians said there were militants firing mortars from that area. Soldiers are trained to return fire when fired upon. I am sure even Hamas even trains their people this way. All of this could have been prevented if Hamas had moved their people away from places where there were civlians. Of course Hamas wants to see dead Palestinians as well as dead Israelis in order to get the sympathy vote. Don't fall for it.

"@ llodo, Someone like you should spend a few days there with your family and then see who the aggressor is."

I don't need to live there to decide who the aggressor is. Hamas and the other terorist groups have publicly stated that their intention is to wipe out Israel. That says it all.

 
  by: lloydo   01/07/2009 10:10 PM     
  @  
 
"That says it all."
It actually doesn't. Again, this is a complex situation. Please acknowledge that. Stop pretending this is a simple issue.

For better or worse, the Palestinians have many reasons to be upset with the Israelis. Pretending otherwise can only make matters worse.
 
  by: Ec5618   01/07/2009 10:15 PM     
  @LLoydo  
 
An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind

Also, how is killing innocent children that have nothing to do with Hamas other than living in the same city a good retaliation measure against Hamas????
 
  by: exanime   01/07/2009 11:18 PM     
  @Ec5618  
 
""That says it all."
It actually doesn't. Again, this is a complex situation. Please acknowledge that. Stop pretending this is a simple issue."

I acknowledge that this is a very complex issue. Jordan and Israel, and Egypt and Israel have worked out all the finer points that have led to neighborly relations. But until Jordan and Egypt renounced violence and decided that they could never wipe Israel of the face of the earth, they never got to the point of dicussing the finer points of being good neighbors. I believe that Abbas and other leading Arabs and the Israelis want to work to work towards a two state solution. In fact I think most Palestinians want a two state solution that will bring peace and prosperity to both the Palestinians and the Israelis. But until we get past the point where a segment of the Palestinians, Hamas and related groups, only want to destroy Israel, here won't be much progress on the other issues. It is sort of like a divorce. If both parties are sane, agreement can be reached about who gets what but if one party only wants to kill the other party....well you get the idea. I support the Palestinians in their goal of having their own country but we will never get there if the Palestinians can't even come togther with that same goal. Unfortunately, too many Palestinians hate and kill each other as much as they hate and kill Israelis and that doesn't bode well for their future.
 
  by: lloydo   01/07/2009 11:21 PM     
  @lloydo  
 
"But until we get past the point where a segment of the Palestinians, Hamas and related groups, only want to destroy Israel, here won't be much progress on the other issues."
Then what do you make of the fact that certain factions within Israel believe that they have the divine right to all Palestinian land? People on both sides have (religious) motivations that force them, after a fashion, to seek ownership of the land. People on both sides keep this conflict going.

You still seem to believe that only one side is acting irrationally, and should be forcibly stopped from ruining the peace.
 
  by: Ec5618   01/07/2009 11:27 PM     
  It amazes me..  
 
that some of you are so clueless. Who is more to blame? Hamas for intentionally using civilians as meat sheilds for propoganda purposes or israel for calling their bluff? If the people of Gaza would stop letting terrorists decide their fates then it would never have gotten to this point. By allowing evil to be done in their name they have become silent accomplices to hamas's attacks on Israel. Hamas is a terrorist organization plain and simple. Or did you guys forget when they were murdering Fatah members loyal to Abbas? They intentionally place things they know will be targets in a conflict in the most densly populated parts of Gaza just to have more fuel for the propganda machine. They repeatedly violated the ceasefire agreement time after time until finally Israel had enough. Maybe if the world would hold Iran accountable for fighting this proxy war through Hamas instead of patting them on the back real change cvould finally occur.
 
  by: arkan351   01/07/2009 11:43 PM     
  @arkan351  
 
"They repeatedly violated the ceasefire agreement time after time until finally Israel had enough."
I take it you have trouble seeing shades of grey too. Pretending that Israel is being attacked by rabid monsters is easier than realising that the truth is actually complex.
 
  by: Ec5618   01/07/2009 11:50 PM     
  @LOL  
 
I vote the FIFO rule.
Hey Israel, GTFO of my land!
And GTFO of my internets!!
 
  by: silentrage   01/07/2009 11:55 PM     
  @The Blame Game  
 
Look up civilian casualties or civilian death toll or something. Conflicts no one remembers have been far worse than this.

There is no logic or reason for violence. Justify it and you enable the aggressor. If you condemn it, condemn violence as a whole, not one particular instance of it.

Peace...
 
  by: zatonado001     01/08/2009 12:18 AM     
  @lloydo  
 
Hamas rockets are not targeted weapons systems Israels are. I have never heard of an Israeli hospital being blown up (because hamas rockets are not that powerful)but we have heard of multipule Palestinian ones being destroied by Israeli missles and air strikes.

Israel by being created by the western nations threatened the palestinians before Hamas existed. the Palestinians are the native people. the jews had previously be expelled from the region by the muslim empire thus they had not been there for hundreds of years.

and look at the numbers any israeli deaths have been repaid 100 fold so that is no justification for the illeagal occupation of Palestinian land
 
  by: veya_victaous     01/08/2009 12:41 AM     
  @  
 
I'll keep it simple.

Innocent civilians on both sides, not responsible for anything that has happened.

Wishing said innocent civilians out of the land they grew up in, not feasible nor humane.

Organizations not directly supported by their populance on both sides responsible for the human lives lost. Not plausable to blame sides "israelis", "palestinians" as a whole.

Israels actions are nothing but reactions to earlier terrorist activities, if even overly aggressive and misplaced.

Refer to 9/11 for a sense of hopelessness and therefor aggression a government faces because of a terrorist attack. Terrorist attacks will always lead to misplaced military action if aimed at a nation as a whole, as it generally is the only thing a government can resolve to trying to deal with it in contrast to idle standing by. Innocent civilians don't like governments standling idle by in these scenarios.

Israel have better killing-capabilities, but arguably both sides have the same intentions. Had the table been turned killing-wise, would there be a reason to change opinion?

Bottom-lines; the side-taking has to stop; the killing has to stop.
 
  by: HAL 9000   01/08/2009 12:49 AM     
  Pot calling the kettle black  
 
They're both at fault. Innocent civilians will rise to martyrdom in the eyes of terrorists. Hamas should sacrifice themselves to save the population but that's not in their agenda. They rather keep bombing southern Israel and shield themselves behind women and children and claim that Israel is doing atrocious war crimes. Hamas.. be men and step up to what you've started, cowards!
 
  by: aysos   01/08/2009 01:01 AM     
  Hamas is killing their people.  
 
Hamas soldiers hide amongst the civilian population for the sole purpose of causing massive civilian casualties for the international media.

The higher the body count the higher the amount of monetary support that will roll in from the rest of the middle eastern nations.

Hamas has been using the civ population as disposable pawns for three decades and by now one would think the population would have added it up. But it is painfully obvious they have not, which can only lead to a single conclusion. The population in general are complete and utter morons.

If combatants run into a structure to use as a stronghold then the structure becomes a viable target and it's a good bet that Hamas pre-packed it full of sacrificial pawns in advance to bolster their genocide cries.

Hamas acts like a bunch of 3 year olds. They like to punch and kick, but then cries foul when those they were assaulting retaliates with bigger stick.
 
  by: Synister1   01/08/2009 01:21 AM     
  @Ec5618  
 
"You still seem to believe that only one side is acting irrationally, and should be forcibly stopped from ruining the peace."

Actually, there is more than one side in this issue. Yes, there are Israelis who think they should have all of Palestine. There may also be Jordanians who think they should recover the West Bank since that is who "owned" it before the '67 war. And there may be Egyptians who who Gaza rightfully belongs to Egypt. But these are all minor parties who really have no influence in this situation and none of them are firing thousands of rockets at anyone. The two main parties who can bring about peace and a two state solution are the Palestinian Authority and the Israeli government and neither is acting irrationally. Their efforts are being undermined by terrorists. If there were Jordanian, Egyptian or Israeli folks doing what Hamas is doing, I would denounce them as terrorists, too, and wish for their destruction.
 
  by: lloydo   01/08/2009 01:42 AM     
  @lloydo  
 
"If there were Jordanian, Egyptian or Israeli folks doing what Hamas is doing, I would denounce them as terrorists, too, and wish for their destruction"

and yet your not even when they're doing worse. israeli has been ethnically cleasing the area funded by many of the major nations in the world namely the US, israel as a country is little if anything more than a isolationist terrorist state, and ultimatley the west's war proxy to the middle east.

but than again it only seems to be terrorism when the "enemies" are doing it, never when its our own countries nor their allies.

israel is a false state to begin with the country rightfully belongs to the palestinians whom have had to fight just to keep what little land they have left and yet israel isn't even willing to co-habitat the land that... and lets face it, they stole it; backed by the west, namely the US and britian, the two biggest terrorists, and terrorism supporting countries in the world for the last century, never even mind looking in the middle east for terrorists, all of their terrorists ultimately come from one of those to countries, as result of their actions and that of their allies...

most people in the west only see and thusly only know the west's version of events, and its usually nothing more than distorted facts and propaganda.

if israel did to you and your family what they've done to the palestinians since they were awarded the palestinian's land you would be firing rockets at them too, if you had access to them... and if they had access to the technology israel uses against them they would be usualy them instead of unguided rocket and suicide bombers..

the whole stigma surrounding suicide bombers is a perfect example of how ignorant we in the west tend to be, as if everyone's goverment can defend their citizens with equal means.

and as pointed out before this goes WAY beyong hamas or hezbollah, hamas has only been in existance for 11 years, and about 13-16 for hezbollah, this goes back more than 4 times further than either has existed for. both are reactions to the problem; not the problem themselves.
 
  by: HAVOC666     01/08/2009 02:39 AM     
  @veya victaous  
 
" Hamas rockets are not targeted weapons systems Israels are."

You are absolutely right. That is why the firing of imprecise weapons like rockets and mortars into cities is called terrorism. Firing precision guided rockets and bombs like the Israelis are doing is evidence of concern that civilians are not hurt. If the Israelis didn't have a concern for civilians, they could just borrow one or two of our B-52s and carpet bomb Gaza into smithereens. Then the world would rightly call the Israelis terrorists just like the Hamas folks. Think of it this way. If someone were standing on the street in front of your house spraying it with an AK-47, would you think, "Gee, he isn't actually aiming at me and he can't even see me so I am going back to sleep and not worry about it." Good Luck!

"I have never heard of an Israeli hospital being blown up (because hamas rockets are not that powerful)but we have heard of multipule Palestinian ones being destroyed by Israeli missles and air strikes."

If Israel had destroyed any hospital, it would have been front page news on AlJazeera. I haven't read any such story although I understand some Hamas are hiding in hospitals so it could happen yet. I am sure Hamas would love it if a hospital were destroyed.

"Israel by being created by the western nations threatened the palestinians before Hamas existed. the Palestinians are the native people. the jews had previously be expelled from the region by the muslim empire thus they had not been there for hundreds of years."

Obviously, history isn't your strong point.

"and look at the numbers any israeli deaths have been repaid 100 fold so that is no justification for the illeagal occupation of Palestinian land"

I am not sure exactly what you are referring to here. If you are saying that Israel should leave Gaza because they have killed a hundred times more Palestinians than Hamas has killed Israelis, you don't understand what Israel is trying to do. They are not interested in numbers. They are just determined to get Hamas to quit firing the rockets.
 
  by: lloydo   01/08/2009 02:54 AM     
  @HAVOC666  
 
Well, HAVOC, I think you have your facts twisted. As far as ethnic cleansing is concerned, after 1948 Arab nations were guilty of ethnic cleansing as they forced the Jews to leave. The Arabs even tried to ethnicly cleanse Israel by telling the Palestinians to flee from Israel so they wouldn't get hurt when the Arab armies invaded. Most left but many stayed. Today they make up 20% of the population of Israel and none are being forced to leave. In fact, they are citizens, have jobs, can vote, own property, etc. The closest thing to ethnic cleansing is found in countries like Lebaon where the Palestinians are kept in squalid camp without any rights at all. Not a great example of brotherly love. I wonder why the Palestinians aren't more upset with the Lebanese than they are with the Israelis.
Since Israel, Lebanon, Syria and Jordan were all created by the western nations after they won WW I, I guess you might consider them all false states. On the other hand, since the Jews are the only people group who has existed in the area we refer to as Palestine as a sovereign nation with Jerusalem as it's capital, I can't think of any other people group that has more of a claim to that land.
 
  by: lloydo   01/08/2009 03:27 AM     
  @  
 
all: You are debating over who is most justified to kill. Neither. These people are fighting a holy war over land they deem holy. There has always been a fight there and always will be. More death of innocents in the name of religion. Remember, you cannot reason with the insane.

Sal the Stockbroker: Welcome to shortnews. FIFO as well as LIFO are age old accounting terms and have always been used in the description of the way digital data is manipulated. The financial industry's use of the term is by no means exclusive or original. In fact, outside the electronic arena, they are always accounting terms, whether accounting for inventory circulation, raw goods/parts, livestock feed, stocks, etc. Generally LIFO works better as it can provide for lesser tax consequence. But, thanks for the insight.

BB
 
  by: bbeljefe     01/08/2009 03:28 AM     
  @Havoc666  
 
A summary of what you stated:

israel is a false state to begin with the country rightfully belongs to the palestinians... and lets face it, they stole it

------
Maybe you should check your facts before making such comments..

Wikipedia shows:

In 628/9, the Byzantine Emperor Heraclius conducted a massacre and expulsion of the Jews

and

The Land of Israel was captured from the Byzantine Empire around 636 CE during the initial Muslim conquests

So um... yeah... guess which group that puts there first? Either way.. I think both groups are making mistakes... both groups should put down their weapons and live in peace instead and share what they have instead of blowing everything up. They should both teach their children to love and sahre, not hate and respond to any problem with violence.
 
  by: fuzz64   01/08/2009 04:49 AM     
  @BB  
 
LIFO is definitely that way to go in this market because of it's obvious tax advantage, but I like Average because it gives a more accurate number.
 
  by: Manic_Panic     01/08/2009 04:57 AM     
  funny stuff....  
 
i find it funny how since the hamas rocket attacks started in 2001, a total of 17 Israelis have been killed by these rocket attacks. How many Palestinians do you think have been killed since 2001? lol get the numbers right guys...isreal is not the victim and if you think the recent increase in homemade rocket attacks which resulted in 2 more deaths justifies the mass murder of hundreds of innocent Palestinians than either your an Fing retard or you have some obvious bias.
 
  by: X2theZ   01/08/2009 05:15 AM     
  not war crimes  
 
I don't know about war crimes because civilians have been deliberately targeted by just about every country in most wars. USA did that in 1945, Hiroshima ring a bell???

They should faces charges for stupidity because killing civilians will lose them support and not help them achieve their goals.

http://www.georgebush.com
 
  by: Steel balls   01/08/2009 05:20 AM     
  Directly from the Hamas consitution  
 
I wish israel all the best to destroy Hamas else any talks of a peaceful solution are doomed. Here is some quotes from the Hamas constitution. It forbids any arab leader from giving back a single inch till the end of time, and will only accept the complete and total subversion of palestine under islamic law.

The goals of Hamas for a the future are simply unacceptable. Specially in the light of Millions upon millions of jews who had been killed and forced to immigrate from the rest of the Arab world, which was undr and even less strict islamic governments.

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/...

From the Introduction:
"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory)."

"Moreover, if the links have been distant from each other and if obstacles, placed by those who are the lackeys of Zionism in the way of the fighters obstructed the continuation of the struggle, the Islamic Resistance Movement aspires to the realisation of Allah's promise, no matter how long that should take. The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said:

"The Day of Judgement (the last days) will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Moslem).

"Allah is its target, the Prophet is its model, the Koran its constitution: Jihad is its path and death for the sake of Allah is the loftiest of its wishes."

Here the nice part - not an inch will be given to the jews:
"Allah is its target, the Prophet is its model, the Koran its constitution: Jihad is its path and death for the sake of Allah is the loftiest of its wishes."

No negotiations accepted:
"Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement"

The real issue of the Palestinians - God owns real estates in that land:
"It is necessary to instill in the minds of the Moslem generations that the Palestinian problem is a religious problem, and should be dealt with on this basis. Palestine contains Islamic holy sites. In it there is al- Aqsa Mosque which is bound to the great Mosque in Mecca in an inseparable bond as long as heaven and earth speak of Isra` (Mohammed's midnight journey to the seven heavens) and Mi'raj (Mohammed's ascension to the seven heavens from Jerusalem)."

Invade and be invaded, invade?
""I swear by the holder of Mohammed's soul that I would like to invade and be killed for the sake of Allah, then invade and be killed, and then invade again and be killed." (As related by al-Bukhari and Moslem)."

 
  by: kmazzawi     01/08/2009 05:26 AM     
  @Steel balls  
 
Actually they have committed at least one war crime... The use of white phosphorous shells is against international law. This isn't the first time they were used by them either.
 
  by: treyjazz   01/08/2009 08:15 AM     
  Oh my?  
 
Oh my, same ole, same ole back and forth, them us, us them!

Look I’d love to hold your hands and sing “Kum’bi’yah” with the rest of your friends -- I’d like to see peace in the Middle East as much as anyone else, then all this would be off my news -- but the simple fact is it’s never, ever, ever, ever going to happen. Never. Ever. Period. The best anyone is ever going to do is orchestrate a ceasefire which will be doomed to fail before it even begins.

The fires of hatred glow brighter here than in any other place on earth, and there’s no politician or peacemaker with gloves thick enough to handle it for more than a few seconds at a time.

Sad but true.
 
  by: woomera   01/08/2009 09:14 AM     
  @lloydo  
 
The Israeli government laid out a plan, at the beginning of its all-out assault on Gaza, for a 'propaganda war' that would publish propaganda in a variety of ways, employing different strategies, in order to win over world public opinion. Major Avital Leibovich, the head of the Israeli military's Foreign Press branch, told reporters, "the blogosphere and new media are another war zone [and] we have to be relevant there."


Hey are you part of this ...I mean you joined Shortnews only yesterday ...just curious like how all you Zionists appear here every time Israel starts massacring people and then you usually disappear off the scene ??
 
  by: Hugo Chavez     01/08/2009 09:42 AM     
  Good Grief!  
 
All I read are Zionists this and Muslims that, I have nothing more do than to repeat!

"The fires of hatred glow brighter here than in any other place on earth, and there’s no politician or peacemaker with gloves thick enough to handle it for more than a few seconds at a time."

True of false? BTW: I am not a "Zionist" or "Muslim" does that make me any worse than anyone else?
 
  by: woomera   01/08/2009 01:02 PM     
  @woomera  
 
do you know what Zionism is ?
 
  by: Hugo Chavez     01/08/2009 01:09 PM     
  just in  
 
http://www.reliefweb.int/...

Amnesty International said today that both Israeli soldiers and
Palestinian fighters are endangering the lives of Palestinian
civilians – including by using them as human shields.

"Our sources in Gaza report that Israeli soldiers have entered and
taken up positions in a number of Palestinian homes, forcing families
to stay in a ground floor room while they use the rest of their house
as a military base and sniper position," said Malcolm Smart, Amnesty
International's Middle East and North Africa Programme. "This clearly
increases the risk to the Palestinian families concerned and means
they are effectively being used as human shields."

In the past, Israeli soldiers have frequently taken over Palestinian
homes, effectively imprisoning their occupants, to use as military
observation and firing positions. In other cases, they have forced
Palestinian civilians, at gunpoint, to go before them into buildings
from which they feared attack.

The practice by Israeli soldiers of taking over Palestinian civilians'
homes and holding their inhabitants as human shields while using the
house as a shooting position has been very common in the past eight
years both in the Gaza Strip and in the West Bank. In a previous
incursion in the Gaza Strip in March 2008, Israeli soldiers took over
at least three houses in the north and in February 2008 soldiers took
over another house in the village of Beit Ummar, near Hebron, in the
West Bank.
 
  by: Hugo Chavez     01/08/2009 01:10 PM     
  Have you ever dealt with...  
 
Palestinian and Israeli store owners? I swear they have the same attitude! One wonders if they came from the same mold..they think they're better than anyone. This is a Holy War that's been going on for centuries and it's not going to stop. Never knew the Koran and Torah can teach it's followers such hatred for each other. Misguided men who quote their 'bible' to benefit themselves. Hamas is the ruling government of Gaza but they're nowhere to be found in this conflict. They instead blended into the civilian population afraid to stand up against the Israelis. What does this tell the world? That Hamas is scared of Israel!!! Where is Palestine's ruling government? Come out and face your enemy head on. Chicken shits. Get it over with already.
 
  by: aysos   01/08/2009 04:29 PM     
  @ Hugo Chavez  
 
Actually, Hugo, I was in a business forum on paltalk yesterday and someone posted a link to shortnews.com relating to a whole other issue. I had never heard of this website before yesterday. It seems like an interesting website and so I decided to participate.

I live in a small town in Oregon and don't know any Israelis, Jews, Arabs or Muslims. I visited Lebanon and Syria many years ago and have tried to follow what is happening in the Middle East because it is an important area.

No one has ever called me a Zionist but if you mean that I support a Jewish nation in its historic homeland, then I guess I am a Zionist. I also support a Palestinian state living peacefully side-by-side the nation of Israel. I think all people should be able to live in peace and be able to live "normal" lives. Unfortunately, people who hate Jews or Muslims aren't doing anyone any favors. If I were to make a wild guess, you seem like the Jew hater type. I could be wrong. I hope so. Someone said recently that this will all come to an end when people love their children more than they hate. I think most Israelis and most Palesinians do love their children more than they hate. Unfortunately we have groups like Hamas who don't love anybody, except themselves, and hate everybody, particulary Palestinians. If they had any concern for Palestinians, they could bring all this death and suffering to an end in a minute.

Also, your quoting from Amnesty International regarding the use of human shields is a little lame. AI doesn't have a clue about urban warfare. There is a huge difference between taking cover in a building and finding civilians there and intentionally setting up your rocket tubes in someone's backyard hoping to draw enemy fire that will kill the civilians.
 
  by: lloydo   01/09/2009 02:38 AM     
  @illoyd  
 
"No one has ever called me a Zionist but if you mean that I support a Jewish nation in its historic homeland, then I guess I am a Zionist. I also support a Palestinian state living peacefully side-by-side the nation of Israel. "

So what is the historic land of Israel? who are these occupants? Why does one religion get special treatment? Isn't that racism?

Do you support the right of return for Palestinians or do they have to remain in the ghettos of the Gaza strip and the West Bank?
 
  by: jendres     01/09/2009 03:01 AM     
  @illoyd  
 
how is this for lame

The UN reports one of the "gravest incidents since the beginning of
operations". It says last Saturday Israeli soldiers evacuated approximately 110 Palestinians (half of whom were children) to a bungalow in Zeitoun, warning them to stay indoors. Twenty-four hours later the house was shelled, killing at least 30.


There will be no peace in the Middle East without justice for the Palestinians which includes the application of the legal right of return of the refugees expelled from their land .To have peace you have to have justice ... it's quite simple
 
  by: Hugo Chavez     01/09/2009 10:49 AM     
  @jendres  
 
I suggest you do a little independant research concerning the history of that region. Briefly, there once was a nation called Israel in the Middle East. It had kings, a government, a capital (Jurusalem), etc. One day, the Babylonians, from what is now Iraq, invaded Isreal and took the people captive. Until the reestablishment of the country of Israel in 1948, all that area was controlled by Arabs from Arabia, Turks, European powers, etc. When the western countries won in WWI, they (mainly France and Britian) controlled the area but they eventually broke it into four countries, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Israel. If you want to look at it in relious terms, they gave 95% to the Muslims and 5% to the Jews. Since the Muslims got most of the land, I guess you could call that racist but that is another topic.

Now regarding the so called right of return and the idea of justice that Hugo refers to. In 1948, the Arab countries expelled the Jews living in their countries,just because of their religion (a perfect example of racism.) The Arabs also strongly suggested to the Palestinians living in Israel that they should leave so the Arab armies could destroy Israel. Some Jews did not leave the Arab countries and some Palestinians did not leave Israel and today we still have Jews living in Arab countries and Palestinians living in Israel. Approximately the same number of Jews and Palestinians did leave. The Jews moved to Israel, Europe, Russia, the US, Canada and elsewhere and were able to integrate into those societies and lead normal lives. The Palestinians mostly moved into neighboring countries like Egypt, Lebanon and Jordan. A few moved to Europe, America, etc., and were treated the same as the Jews. Unfortunately, The Palestinian's brothers in Lebanon, Jordan,and Egypt treated the Palestinians like dogs and put them into camps. Today, the Palestinians are still treated like dogs by their fellow Arabs/Muslims and kept in camps and that is the main reason I support a two state solutions. The plight of Palestinians In Jordan is better and they are the majority of the Jordanian population so by all rights, Jordan is a Palestinian nation. Even so, I still support the creation of a new state of Palestine if that is what it takes to bring peace to the region. Most of the Palestinians and Jews who who left Israel and Arab countries in 1948 are dead. That was 60 years ago. If all of their descendants were allowed to return, we would be talking about millions of people. And if you want justice, the Jews must be allowed to return to their previous homes as well as well as the Palestinians. No one ever mentions this because it is obvious the Arab countries would never allow millions of Jews to return to their countries. If the Arabs had treated the Palestinians like brothers in 1948, there would not even be talk about this issue. Palestinians would be living wherever they choose, just like Jews do. If the Arabs force the Palestinians to live in ghettos, then the UN should pass a resolution telling them to knock it off. Why aren't people protesting about that? But you should discuss this with Hugo. I agree with you that these ghettos are terrible. He doesn't seem to care if the Palestinians are forced to live in ghettos by their Arab masters. I guess he thinks that is justice.
 
  by: lloydo   01/09/2009 07:57 PM     
  holy crap  
 
not he old it was Israel a couple of thousand years ago bullshit ... under that logic the Brits should be handing London back to the Romans ....

Christ does anyone else get tired of this pre prepared crap spewed out to support mass murder and war crimes and continual breaking of international law.
Like every time one of these Israeli apologists appears on sn they have these cut and paste history lessons all prepared ...how very quaint.
 
  by: Hugo Chavez     01/09/2009 08:07 PM     
  @lloydo  
 
I have to also agree with Hugo on that logic. If Jewish peoples are historically the owners of this land 2000 years ago then we must also give back the land taken from the Navajos, Cherokees, Poles, Russians, etc. All around the world, many nationalities and cultures have claims to land that was once their at some point in history.

There is nothing special about Jews that makes them any different than Arabs, Indians, Eskimos, etc. other than the fact that they have a great deal of control of US policy making in Washington.

However this one small item does give them almost unlimited power to use as they see fit. Unfortunately they have chosen to use to for evil purposes. Destruction and chaos is the order of the day and they will use these methods to eradicate every Arab from what they claim is land that "God" granted them...
 
  by: slavefortheman     01/09/2009 08:19 PM     
  @myself  
 
I should have been more specific in my first paragraph. I did not mean land specifically taken by the US but just in general. IE: Russias claim to parts of Eastern Europe or Germanys claim to parts of Poland, etc.
 
  by: slavefortheman     01/09/2009 08:21 PM     
  @Hugo  
 
It is lame because it shows just how biased AI truly is. The first sentence in the article says both Israelis and Palestinians are endangering Palestinian lives and using civilians as human shields. ALL the rest of the article is about how the Israelis are doing this. No mention of Hamas....hmmmmm...wonder why. The example they give about Israelis taking over homes just shows how ignorant AI is about urban warfare. When you are fighting in urban areas, everybody takes cover in buildings/homes, etc. Soldiers aren't stupid, and niether is Hamas. Of course AI may be smart and hope that everyone else is stupid. It is just a totally stupid article from every aspect. And by the way, did you post the AI article criticizing Hamas for endangering civilian lives by firing thousands of rockets at them. I can't seem to find it. I also missed the AI report on how Hamas folks were executing Fatah folks after Israel moved into Gaza. Guess they don't like Fatah either.

Regarding the "gravest incident" report, you forgot to mention the rest of the story. Actually, what happened was that after the Israelis got these people into a safe place, Hamas moved in and set up mortar tubes in the yard under cover of darkness. The next day when they started firing mortars on Israeli troops, the Israelis returned fire and everyone was killed, including the civilians. Actually, I just made this up but it is certainly a common Hamas tactic so it could be true. This war is obviously very fluid and the Israelis who tried to find a safe place for these civilians were probably long gone 24 hours later. Who knows what the truth is. I don't know the truth and neither does the UN. Without an investigation, no one will know the truth. By spreading lies and half truths, you only make the matter worse. If you take this story on its face, then the Israelis have now changed sides and are trying to help Hamas. I am sure you realize that Hamas never had any intention of defeating Israel in a conventional war. They are trying to win the information war and the only way they can win is to have a lot of civilian casualties. Why do you think they hide in homes, schools and hospitals, and fire there rockets in areas where there are civilians. Come on. I am sure you are smarter than that.

 
  by: lloydo   01/09/2009 08:35 PM     
  wow  
 
AI is biased against Israel .. I suppose everyone is The UN ..everyone except the Masters in Washington that is ..your true colors are really beginning to shine here keep it up and show us all how objective you are ...lol
 
  by: Hugo Chavez     01/09/2009 08:41 PM     
  double take ! WTF  
 
"Actually, I just made this up but it is certainly a common Hamas tactic so it could be true"

now who is being biased

like the way Hamas fired from those UN schools and then it turned out they didn't ...

Turning the blame on the victims is always the mentality of a murderer.
 
  by: Hugo Chavez     01/09/2009 08:45 PM     
  @lloydo  
 
Major problem with your statement. That is unless you are engaging in doublespeak...

"When you are fighting in urban areas, everybody takes cover in buildings/homes, etc."

But then you go on to say (referring to Hamas):

"Why do you think they hide in homes, schools and hospitals, and fire there rockets in areas where there are civilians."

Ummm... You just said everybody is having to hide in houses/apartments because it is Urban Warfare.

But then you go on to say Hamas is using Urban warfare because they want high civilian deaths...

Its like you are saying its OK for Israel yet not OK for Hamas to engage in urban warefare??? It sounds like doublespeak to me.
 
  by: slavefortheman     01/09/2009 08:54 PM     
  another double take  
 
By spreading lies and half truths, you only make the matter worse.......ie quoting a UN report published in major news outlets

Says the guy quoting himself in his own words "making that up but it could be true"

and as for "making it worse" who exactly am I making it worse for ? The IDF caus i don't think matters could really be any worse for the people of Gaza do you ...??

Oh and of course I could be making it worse for the propaganda war launched by the Israeli military on the internet which has been covered so much in the press but than again if I do I will surely sleep tonight .
 
  by: Hugo Chavez     01/09/2009 08:55 PM     
  @Illoyd  
 
You still didn't answer why one religion gets special treatment.

Oh, and on the right of return issue. I haven't heard anyone mention jews going back to their countries, but if this is preventing the palestinians returning to the homes they were evicted from, then let's allow them all to go home if they want to move back to Egypt from the US. (This is completely ignoring the fact that people are cattle to be traded around.)

Oh, and on the historic Israel argument, who was there before Moses lead the Hebrews there? IIRC, the bible says they slaughtered all the inhabitants to steal the land (oh, I forgot, God GAVE them the land...)
 
  by: jendres     01/09/2009 11:24 PM     
  @jendres  
 
"You still didn't answer why one religion gets special treatment."

I thought I did. May I did't make myself clear. The French and British divided up the land and gave 95% to Muslims. Don't ask me why. Maybe 95% of the people living there were muslims. Regardless, I wouldn't necessarily call that giving muslims special treatment.

I am not sure I understand your point on the right of return issue. I suggested that if you want to be fair and allow the Jews who were expelled from Arab countries the same right of return that the Palestinians are seeking, I doubt you would find the Arab countries willing to do that. If you allow all their descendants to return, you are talking large numbers of people and I haven't heard any Arab governments welcoming them to come back. No matter where the Jews went after they were expelled, no one put them in refugee camps. The muslims who left the area and came to America, Canada, Europe, etc., were not put into refugee camps, either. Only Arab countries put them in refugee camps so I guess they can live with the consequences of their decisions.

Regarding the historical Israel issue, I am just looking at history and did not bring God or the Bible into the argument. Yes, there were various tribes/clans/people who lived in that area before the Hebrews lived there but they weren't Arabs or Muslims. If there are any descendants alive today, I guess they could argue that the Jews and Muslims should all leave and give them back the land. No one knows that much about these folks that lived before recorded history. I am just pointing out that the Jews/Hebrew/Israelites are the only people during recorded history that had a sovereign nation with Jerusalem as its capital in the area we now refer to as Palestine. They were there a long time before the muslim faith ever existed.
 
  by: lloydo   01/11/2009 12:19 AM     
  @slavefortheman  
 
Don't agree with Hugo. He is very illogical. Or maybe his bias blinds him.

"If Jewish peoples are historically the owners of this land 2000 years ago then we must also give back the land taken from the Navajos, Cherokees, Poles, Russians, etc. All around the world, many nationalities and cultures have claims to land that was once their at some point in history."

You make some valid points but let me ask you something. If the Jewish peoples have a historical ownership of this land and they own it today, on what basis would you tell them to pack up and leave because some new people who have never had their own country here before want to take this land away from you?

" There is nothing special about Jews that makes them any different than Arabs, Indians, Eskimos, etc. other than the fact that they have a great deal of control of US policy making in Washington."

I agree. Jews are just like everyone else. I am sure they get some benefit from the sympaty vote because of the holocaust but the main reason they get support from America is that they have established a democracy in the Middle East. We Americans usually, but not always, tend to support democracies. Hitler was elected by the Germans to lead there government but he didn't get a lot of support from America. When you have the world's only super power supporting you, you certainly have a strong ally. And I would disagee that they have used this relationship for evil purposes. America would rather have a democracy there than just a bunch of terrorist like Hamas. Egypt and Jordan certainly feel the same way. The last thing they would want is a Hamas run government in place of Israel. And Israel isn't trying to eredicate the Palestinians from the state of Israel. Those folks have a lot better life than the Palestinians living in the surrounding countries. If that weren't the case, they would have left by now.



 
  by: lloydo   01/11/2009 12:47 AM     
  @slavefortheman  
 
I forgot one thing. You made a good point about Americans giving the land back to the Indians, etc. Of course then you could argue that the Indians should go back to Asia where there ancestors came from, and so forth. Unfortunately, arguments over land and sovereignty have always been with us and probably always will be. There are situations like the Kurds who haven't exactly been forced from their land but they have just been prevented from having their own country. It is sad but that's the way the world is right now.

But just to show you how fair I am, as if I really needed to, I would argue that any American, and I am an American,who thinks the Jews in Israel should pack up and go back to Europe are just hypocrites unless they have given their house to some Indian and moved back to Europe. The Jews have more of a historical claim to their country than we Americans have to our country.

Something to think about.
 
  by: lloydo   01/11/2009 01:02 AM     
  @ Hugo Chavez  
 
Hugo, Hugo, Hugo. I think I figured out why you are such an idiot. You say I am an Israeli apologist,a Zionist, a cut and paster, etc. Since you believe these lies, I can understand why you seem to believe some of the other lies you read in the press, at least those that support your narrow minded biases.

As I stated before, I live in a small (80,000 population) in the western part of the US. I am sure there must be Jews and Muslims here but I don't know any and I am neither myself. I am probably a lot older than you, am well read, have travelled a lot, even to the Middle East, have been in the military and served in combat. Correctl me if I am wrong, but I probably am more qualified to have an opinion about the Middle East than you. Now please tell me that I am wrong. Tell me that you are so narrow minded and biased because you are a Palestinian living in Gaza and you don't know any other way. With a nick like "Hugo Chavez" I would guess that you are neither Arab or Muslim. More likely just a leftist. I won't jump to any conclusions until you tell me the truth. I don't mean to be personal but when you make your own assumptions and treat them like fact, I can't take you as being credible, or a logical thinker.

Let me make a small challenge.


UNITED NATIONS – The Palestinian foreign minister says Israel and Hamas responded to the Security Council's call for an immediate cease-fire in Gaza with "total disrespect" and he urged the U.N.'s most powerful body to enforce its demand.

Now how can the UN enforce their resolution? Hamas and Israel don't trust each other enough to ceasefire unilaterally so what can force them and what would the result be. The only result, in the short run, that I hope for is for both the Israelis and Palestinians in Gaza to live at peace with each other. The only way that I can think of to make this happen is for the UN to provide an international peacekeeping force to force it to happen. If such a force moved into Gaza to force out the IDF, stop the rockets from being fired and smuggled in, open the border crossings to allow all necessary food, fuel, medicine, doctors,and anything else in that the Palestinians need to be happy and healthy, then all this suffering and bloodshed could be ended and the Israelis and Palestinian Authority can get back to negotiating a two state settlement. Now I don't imagine the UN has the cajones to do this and some similar Egyptian/French agreement will have to be worked out, but this would bring and end to the suffering and peace to both peoples.

My challenge to you is to show that you aren't as biased as I think you are and either concur with my proposal, which seems to be what the PA foreign minister wants to see happen, or, if you think wanting peace for both peoples is biased, describe your unbiased solution that might bring an end to the suffering and death.
 
  by: lloydo   01/11/2009 01:46 AM     
  @lloyd  
 
"I thought I did. May I did't make myself clear. The French and British divided up the land and gave 95% to Muslims. Don't ask me why. Maybe 95% of the people living there were muslims. Regardless, I wouldn't necessarily call that giving muslims special treatment."

Cute. 95% of the land was given to the muslims? Oh really? Link perhaps or did you just see it on tv? Last I heard Israel is a jewish state. I suppose you will try to wiggle a little more out of answering this question honestly. But you know you are in the wrong, so let's just leave it there.


"I am not sure I understand your point on the right of return issue."
Of course you don't.

"I suggested that if you want to be fair and allow the Jews who were expelled from Arab countries the same right of return that the Palestinians are seeking, I doubt you would find the Arab countries willing to do that."
Has it been put forward? Maybe you will find opinions are actually a little different.

"If you allow all their descendants to return, you are talking large numbers of people and I haven't heard any Arab governments welcoming them to come back. No matter where the Jews went after they were expelled, no one put them in refugee camps."
What? This is completely off topic, and again it sounds like trying to distract attention away.

" The muslims who left the area and came to America, Canada, Europe, etc., were not put into refugee camps, either. Only Arab countries put them in refugee camps so I guess they can live with the consequences of their decisions." No, the palestinians that were chased from their farms by the jews have to live with those decisions.


"Regarding the historical Israel issue, I am just looking at history" Ancient history.

" and did not bring God or the Bible into the argument. Yes, there were various tribes/clans/people who lived in that area before the Hebrews lived there but they weren't Arabs or Muslims. If there are any descendants alive today" Palestinians perhaps?\

", I guess they could argue that the Jews and Muslims should all leave and give them back the land. No one knows that much about these folks that lived before recorded history." History recorded by the jews?
 
  by: jendres     01/12/2009 03:59 AM     
  Subject at hand  
 
forget the past history of the region. Hamas needs to own up but they're too hard headed to do so. The civilians are sacrificial lambs. Maybe Israel needs to take over the region, flushed out the terrorist, rebuilt and live in peace. Israel has no problem with Palestinians it's the radicals that makes it impossible to live with.
 
  by: aysos   01/13/2009 01:22 PM     
  @lloydo  
 
you say you are more qualified than me to talk about the Middle East because you live there ...and then you suggest that the UN should provide an international peacekeeping force to force to the region .

Weren't you aware that late Arafat called for this a long time ago and Israel rejected the idea http://www.shortnews.com/...

 
  by: Hugo Chavez     01/13/2009 01:47 PM     
  actually  
 
so you're not in Israel I thought you said you were maybe I'm confusing you with rage25 (he was a drive-by possibly crazyola creation)


But yeah your suggestion has already been put forward and rejected by Israel
and God has nothing to do with this this is imperialism pure and simple.I wasn't aware that God goes around handing out pieces of land and certificates to that fact that have any legal standing under International law


Saying it belonged to me 3000 years ago means that you should pack your bags and move back to Europe and give the native Indians back their land then ?
 
  by: Hugo Chavez     01/13/2009 01:54 PM     
  @lloydo  
 
"You make some valid points but let me ask you something. If the Jewish peoples have a historical ownership of this land and they own it today, on what basis would you tell them to pack up and leave because some new people who have never had their own country here before want to take this land away from you?"

lol are you daft or ignorant... do you really think the palestinians just came out of nowhere... hell no they didn't, they lived there along side the jew historically, its always been their land, but at one point it was shared by both.

they only wn it today because the west says so, but it still very much palestinian land, and israel is very much occupying their land.

i swear west people are either gettiong dumber on average or things are just getting too complex for them.

" I am probably a lot older than you, am well read, have travelled a lot, even to the Middle East, have been in the military and served in combat. Correctl me if I am wrong, but I probably am more qualified to have an opinion about the Middle East than you. Now please tell me that I am wrong."

oh well please allow me... YOUR WRONG... better?

so you been the4 the middle east, well so have many soldiers... however most of them are still amazingly ignorant of the middle east because everything they know about the middle east is largely propaganda and the small minority of radicalism, i guess we in the west dont think we have any radicals, ah yeah we do, and we usually elected them too.

"Tell me that you are so narrow minded and biased because you are a Palestinian living in Gaza and you don't know any other way. With a nick like "Hugo Chavez" I would guess that you are neither Arab or Muslim. More likely just a leftist. I won't jump to any conclusions until you tell me the truth. I don't mean to be personal but when you make your own assumptions and treat them like fact, I can't take you as being credible, or a logical thinker."

just because you and most of the west disagree or are completely ignorant of thwe fact will never seize for them to be fact.. infact that why they are called facts, because they are both true and constant (constant in that fact can't be changed regardless of regional propaganda).

yeah hugo would definately be called a leftist by american standard though america is so far to the right itself that all centrists are also leftists, and its becoming more true of some of the US's allies too (like my country of canada).

" The only result, in the short run, that I hope for is for both the Israelis and Palestinians in Gaza to live at peace with each other."

not much chance of that.
backed by the west the jews invaded and occupied palestine ana did so for 17 years in that 17 year all they did was try to conquer more and more land from the palestinians and backed by western nations; especially the US they were successful everytime due to advanced weaponry. when aft6er that 17 years the UN mandated that israel much respect a certian amount of land and LET (how would you fell if i just ALLOWED you to live on your own land; how about i kick you out of your house than later say ok you can live in this one room of the house, but i can take it back anytime i want because i'm bigger and stronger), i really doubt there will be peace there until zionism is defeated, zionism IS inhereint negative in the same way that america becomming a white only nation is a bad thing (though many white would disagree;particularly in the south)... when i comes to israel american's in general are the least qualified to give an accurate answer why? because their country has back israel and its war crimes from day one and from day one they been ffeding theirr citizen mindless terrorist propaganda rhetoric, and that yet another think american in general aren't qualified to talk about terrorism; as their country is the biggest user, supporter and funder of international terrorism, bar none, some country have more terrorism but no country has more or more support for international terrorism. and the sad part is most of them think they're country is actually aginst it... yeah, MAYBE when it happening to them, but otherwise american have been indoctrinated to be fine with it.

"then all this suffering and bloodshed could be ended and the Israelis and Palestinian Authority can get back to negotiating a two state settlement."

dont hold your breath neiter side wants that, not the zionist israeli's and certianly not the palestinians who view it as their land exclusively now as they have had sole owernship for centuries until the the US and europe came in and messed everything up by internationally and unitedly sponsporing a occupation and have been for 60 years now.

europe couldn't tolerate the zionist jews either, thats why israel exists today, because europe was uniformily kicking them out (except germany; they have special places for jews) they needed a place to so, so what better place to send them then the place
 
  by: HAVOC666     01/13/2009 02:42 PM     
  ...continued  
 
europe couldn't tolerate the zionist jews either, thats why israel exists today, because europe was uniformily kicking them out (except germany; they have special places for jews) they needed a place to so, so what better place to send them then the place their own book (they historically wrote it and what would later be the the bible and the koran via the OT) calls their land... excpet the fact that they were sole inhabited by the modern palestians for about13 or 14 centuries, even american's don't have a claim to america in as signifigant a manner as the palestinian do for israel.

"My challenge to you is to show that you aren't as biased as I think you are and either concur with my proposal"

show how you aren't biased... hell you dont even seem to be aware of histoprical facts... and you want to accuse people of being biased, get the facts straight FIRST... THEN maybe you can accuse people have being biased without being a biased fool yourself. hugo has probably spent far more effort in digging up international fact they you may ever spend and his lack of ignorance, and your abundance of it on this subject is clear evidence of this.

you see the problem is is that probably everything you know about the palestinians-israeli is western rhetoric and propaganda, thats what we in the west special in, that and efficent killing methods.
 
  by: HAVOC666     01/13/2009 02:42 PM     
  @Hugo  
 
"so you're not in Israel I thought you said you were maybe I'm confusing you with rage25 (he was a drive-by possibly crazyola creation"

Well, I think you must be confusing me and my posts with someone else because often your responses have nothing to do with my posts.

"Weren't you aware that late Arafat called for this a long time ago and Israel rejected the idea"

Yes, I know that but that wasn't my point. I don't care about what Arafat or Israel did in the past. I am suggesting this for the present. You didn't answer my question but I since Arafat agreed to it I can probably guess you would too. Maybe we agree on something.

"God has nothing to do with this"

Again, I never said Gad had anything to do with this. Maybe you are confusing me with someone else, again.


 
  by: lloydo   01/14/2009 05:28 AM     
  Holocaust in Gaza  
 
Israel is the biggest terrorist in the world. If you trying to deny the way what is called "state of Israel" was created then I'll remind you with the terror that the terrorist Zionist groups did in the early 20th century killing and terrorizing Palestinian people. Zionist terrorist group committed multiple Holocausts against the Palestinian people and the last on was in GAZA. The Israeli army did not have any respect for religion (bombed 27 mosque), civilians (killed whole family members), used illegal weapons ...etc
 
  by: GAZA   01/22/2009 06:51 AM     
 
 
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