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01/29/2009 02:14 PM ID: 76631 Permalink   

Spain Announces Crimes Against Humanity Investigation for 2002 Gaza Bombing by Israel


Spanish Judge Fernando Andreu has announced an investigation into a possible case of crimes against humanity concerning the 2002 bombing of a Hamas leader’s house in Gaza which left fourteen other people, including nine children dead.

The case which is permitted under Spanish law will investigate Dan Halutz, the then air force commander of the Israeli army and Binyamin Ben-Eliezer, then defense minister who currently holds the position of minister of infrastructure.

    WebReporter: Hugo Chavez Show Calling Card      
ASSESS this news: BLOCK this news. Reason:
Why bother nothing will come of it, waste of time and money.
  by: Jammy-Doger   01/29/2009 05:04 PM     
Spain: "Gee Israel, we don't like how you're behaving right now. Let's go back in the past and find some dirt to throw back at you. Now be good."

Just an observation.
  by: C.O.G.   01/29/2009 05:26 PM     
There is no statute of limitations on war crimes.

Israel is still chasing down Nazi war criminals 60+ years after the events of WWII. This is no different.
  by: slavefortheman     01/29/2009 05:48 PM     
  Hey, I feel you...  
I was just making an observation, that's it.

Does this mean that nations who committed war crimes hundreds of years ago can still be brought to justice? I really wanna know because I have absolutely NO knowledge of this sort of thing.
  by: C.O.G.   01/29/2009 05:51 PM     
No the nation itself cannot generally pay unless this goes through the World Court or some other international organization.

Ex: The World Court decision against the US vs. Nicaragua. The US owes several billions in reparations for state sponsored terrorism against Nicaragua.

In most cases, war crimes charges are brought against individuals.

Again though these generally also require an international court or else if they are only charged within a single nation, they will only be guilty within that one nation.

Ex: If Dan Halutz (Above in article) is found guilty of war crimes in Spain, then if he ever traveled to Spain or possibly one of its allies, he may be imprisoned. If an international ruling body such as the World Court were to find him guilty, he would pretty much never be allowed to leave Israel without the chance of being imprisoned.

So it depends on what governing body is issuing the charges really. The best way of doing this though is within an international court like the World Court or Hague.
  by: slavefortheman     01/29/2009 05:59 PM     
If so, Italy would be screwed.
  by: Dayron   01/29/2009 06:00 PM     
  So by this measure of time...  
... trials for Bush in 2012? 2013?
  by: Mister crank     01/29/2009 06:03 PM     
I'd think you'd be limited on how far back you could go just by the availability of evidence. It tends to degrade over the centuries ...
  by: Ben_Reilly     01/29/2009 06:04 PM     
  Thanks for the knowledge...  
So I gather that as long as the World Court agrees, then there's really no time limit on pressing charges. So that means that Israel could go and press charges on Italy for burning Jerusalem to the ground in 70 AD. Am I right?
  by: C.O.G.   01/29/2009 06:06 PM     
  I will be adding a net friends work from UK  
Gaza detainee treatment 'inhuman'
Wednesday, 28 January 2009

Palestinians seized during Israel's operation in Gaza faced "appalling" conditions and "inhuman" treatment, Israeli human rights groups have said.

"The reports indicate that... many detainees - minors as well as adults - were held for many hours - sometimes for days - in pits dug in the ground, exposed to bitter cold and harsh weather, handcuffed and blindfolded," the groups said in a statement.

IDF soldiers leave racist graffiti on Gaza homes
Wednesday, 28 January 2009

Residents of the Zeitun neighborhood who returned to their homes once the fighting in the region was over discovered that their walls had been marked with slogans such as "Die you all," Make war not peace," "Death to Arabs," "Arabs must die," and "One down, 999,999 to go."

The Israelis pretend to act like saints
But fact after fact this pretence taints
Oh, their PR machine is slick no doubt
But even they can’t stifle every shout

Not every shout nor scream can be stopped
Nor sanitize each bomb that's dropped
Killing women and children like they were nothing
With sneering hatred and ugly loathing

There are few more hypocritical regimes
Than the Israelis and their brutal schemes
Killing children and then pretending dumb
Like it was a mistake not the act of scum

We’ve seen the graffiti, now we hear the acts
But no doubt their PR person will deny the facts
The Israelis are adept at acting like saints
While the ghost of justice vomits and faints
  by: captainJane     01/29/2009 06:17 PM     
I dont think you could do that because... Well not the length of time but because for one, they are different governments. Israel today is a different country than back then. Same as most countries. Just totally different governments, etc.

I mean technically there is no statute of limitations but I think it really is only used within maybe maximum human lifetimes. In other words war crimes trials may only go back 0-70+ years or so at a max.

Generally when it goes past the 60-70 year mark, it seems at least from recent examples, that nations may only ask for a public apology instead of reparations. Like in the case of Armenia and Turkey.
  by: slavefortheman     01/29/2009 06:19 PM     
  I got ya.  
Thanks for the clarification.

But it seems to me that because Israel had NO government, it shouldn't be able to ask for reparations from the Holocaust. Having no gov't is by all means different from Israel's gov't today.
  by: C.O.G.   01/29/2009 06:23 PM     
Oh I agree. Somehow they were able to get reparations out of Germany even though the nation of Israel didnt officially exist until 1948... go figure...

Personally I have always thought the idea of national reparations like this is pretty dumb. It was one of the reasons Hitler was in fact able to take power. He used the fact that Germany was paying reparations to the Allies as a way to drum up support for his cause within Germany.

Of course on the other hand some nations do rightly deserve to be compensated. Ex: In the case of the USA vs. Nicaragua, the US totally destroyed that country economically. Its only now starting to recover after 20 years... In fact after the US intervention in that nation, it quickly became the 2nd poorest country in the western hemisphere just right behind Haiti.

So I see that in some cases, reparations are good but in others it can cause more harm than good.
  by: slavefortheman     01/29/2009 06:31 PM     
  Spain Brought Chile's Augusto Pinochet  
To justice for his crimes.Spain is not toothless under international law. Spanish law and international Law give Spain the authority to prosecute war crimes, and Spain has demonstrated the willingness to exercise the rule of law.
  by: ichi     01/29/2009 06:54 PM     
Yes they used the idea universal jurisdiction to nab him:

It was the first case of its kind when it was used against Pinochet. So yes it is possible, but if that person does not ever leave their home country like what he did, they may not be able to be prosecuted.

They were able to grab him because he made frequent trips to the UK to visit Margaret Thatcher.
  by: slavefortheman     01/29/2009 07:11 PM     
  Looking for my Nuts  
Did Spain take any of the organizers of the subway bomb to the world court yet? Or are they still looking for their balls from when the fundies (wahabies, taliban, hamas, etc.) forced the Spanish army to run away from afghanistan.
  by: kmazzawi     01/29/2009 08:11 PM     
  Oh brill-i-ant  
Going to start up the Inquisition again, aye Spain?
  by: Big Bird     01/29/2009 09:52 PM     
  @ Slave  
I'm with you on the reparations thing. I mean, why can't we let the past be the past, learn to forgive, and move on...

Um... Sorry I hurt your feelings and killed people, take a few dollars. Can we be cool?

But in other cases such as the U.S. v Nicaragua, if a country completely destroys that economy, then they should help out. It shouldn't just be loose pocket change for any hurt feelings. That's just more disrespectful.

But I will say that I do support the nation of Israel. I cannot support their current actions of blowing stuff up and killing people, but in the grand scheme of things, I support them (for obvious reasons). I have hope they'll get it right in the end.

But to go back a few years ago and bring up war crimes because Spain is apparently mad at them? Come on....
  by: C.O.G.   01/29/2009 10:09 PM     
That last post of yours shows how little you know about current events .In fact it shows how highly ignorant you are of events in general never mind current ones because

1 Spain still has soldiers in Afghanistan

2 Spain captured the bombers of 11-M a long time ago and tried them under Spanish law and imprisoned them ....

without declaring a false war on any country imagine that .Treating a criminal act as a crime and solving it as such
  by: Hugo Chavez     01/30/2009 12:12 AM     
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