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01/30/2009 04:54 PM ID: 76665 Permalink   

Texas Hold 'em Case Tests Skill vs. Chance

 

20 men were arrested playing Texas Hold 'em. According to Greenville, SC, lawyer Jeff Phillips: "Using the taxpayers' resources for such useless Gestapo-like tactics is more of a crime than is playing of the game."

Back in April 2006, a private game was raided and is being tried in Charleston, SC, this February. At stake is whether the game is one of skill and therefore legal.

South Carolina has a 200-year-old law forbidding games of chance. President Barack Obama is known to be a fan of the game.

 
  Source: www.sacunion.com  
    WebReporter: tipster Show Calling Card      
  Recommendation:  
ASSESS this news: BLOCK this news. Reason:
   
  12 Comments
  
  oh my  
 
Pales in comparison in every way to the waste that is the drug war.
 
  by: Trevelyan   01/30/2009 05:43 PM     
  I'd like to see this  
 
Of course its a skill based game. If you have absolutely no idea how to play poker your return on investment is going to be much lower than someone who knows the rules. Even using the "average player" rule someone who knows the math behind the game will be able to more successfully bluff and fold when appropriate.

Poker isn't like a slot machine where anyone can sit down, push a button and everyone gets the same mathematical payout.

But if that is the case then video poker should be classified as a skill game and removed from all the casino floors that don't allow electronic skill games. Good luck is all I have to say. Gambling regulations aren't changed easily.
 
  by: teh_epic     01/30/2009 05:49 PM     
  The way I see it it's just like the stock market  
 
Numbers and those who have a better understanding have a better chance of making a profit.

So either ban all stock and forex trading or lift the ban on poker(including online).
 
  by: MouseJunkie     01/30/2009 06:26 PM     
  SWAT is the governments answer....  
 
to the Posse comitatus act. Can’t use the military against our civilian population, we’ll just militarize the police department and attack.

http://www.cato.org/...


SWAT is used to attack farmers, innocent citizens, sick people, doctors, pot smokers, non-violent criminals, poker players and a plethora of others.

http://www.cato.org/...


What ever happened to “Protect and Serve”?
 
  by: valkyrie123     01/30/2009 06:54 PM     
  Game of skill  
 
Poker is definitely a game of skill, otherwise any jackass could win the WSOP. I play poker almost every weekend and win most of the time. I have some friends that suck and lose most of the time, because they have no skill. They might get lucky once in awhile, but overall skill wins almost every time. It is legal here in Illinois as long as the house doesn't take a rake (gov can't easily tax it). Stop wasting time and money busting people for playing games and minding their own business, WTF is wrong with our government????
 
  by: Rakulus   01/30/2009 07:50 PM     
  @valkyrie123 on “Protect and Serve”  
 
It went the way of the Dodo in this country. Much the same as what happened to "We the People", "all men are created equal", "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness", etc....

What else is new? I literally have to use 2 hands to count how many amendments to the bill of rights the Bush admin broke!
 
  by: slavefortheman     01/30/2009 08:12 PM     
  @rakulus  
 
So your saying that Moneymaker has skill?

=P kidding - sort of
 
  by: teh_epic     01/30/2009 09:45 PM     
  ...  
 
There are skill portions to the game, but if in the end, any hand can be determined by luck, then the game is a luck based game.

Percentages don't mean anything, except that the end result leans toward player A or player B. A percent is not going to guarantee someone a win, only assure them that their odds are better than someone else.

Funnily enough, when you're watching the world poker championships, they're displaying the odds of player A beating player B based upon BOTH HANDS. So the percentages are MUCH MORE skewed than they would normally be.

The odds that player A and player B are aware of are nowhere near the percents being displayed on the television. "Omg 97% go all in!" In that guy's head, it's a mere 60% chance of winning, but he goes all in anyway. Then loses, because the guy who had a 3% chance of winning lucked out, got the ace, and won.

Because it's a luck based game.

Counter-Strike is another luck based game, as "gun recoil" is random. Madden is pretty random too, because receivers have a % chance of catching the ball, as do the people guarding them. All NBA video games have a random part to them (shot percentages), as does Warcraft 3.

Don't worry poker players, you're not the only ones playing a game that has a huge luck factor. Even video games do it.
 
  by: Dekar   01/31/2009 12:44 AM     
  Bit of each  
 
It's a combination of skill and luck. Hold'em is the most luck based of the various poker options.

Skill's important, but not necessary.
 
  by: tantryl   01/31/2009 01:44 AM     
  Realistic comparison:  
 
While it can be argued that ALL games have a combination of luck and skill, lets look at two true "opposites" in the world of gambling.

Texas Holdem requires a great deal of skill where control of emotion is concerned. Obviously you need to be able to read other players but, when playing with other accomplished players you must also have the knowledge and wherewithal to fold, even in light of a "possible" good draw. A keen understanding of mathmatics also helps in determining the possibilities of a good hand after the flop. Even with that though, there is still a bit of chance involved, albeit small.

Craps: This is a game of chance. It has never been, nor will it ever be possible for humans or computers to determine the outcome of the next roll of two six sided dice. Roulette comes to mind as well.

In any event, this story is but another shining example of government controlling the citizens. More victimless crimes, if you will.

@teh epic: You are correct. Gambling and so many other stupid laws in this country are hard to change. The reason for this is arrogance. Arrogance is the combination of ignorance and fear and sadly, one nation under god is still very ignorant of truth because they are afraid to learn.

BB
 
  by: bbeljefe     01/31/2009 02:55 AM     
  skill vs chance  
 
all card games are both chance and skill aside from the holding the highest hand or the best combination of cards right off the deal which is 5% in the case of blackjack.

scratch and win cards, slot machines and bingo on the other hand are purely games of chance where the players has no involvement that could ever alter the outcome.

that said this archiac pointless law should have been repealed 199 years ago.
 
  by: HAVOC666     02/02/2009 07:47 PM     
  THO is Skill (with a 'touch' of luck)  
 
Texas Hold 'em is much more skill than luck. When you play at a casino, it's against the other players, not the house, for this exact reason.

FYI - Video poker is still just a slot machine. If you picked the worst hand and dumped every good card you had every time, you'd still win a certain percentage over time, based on the hold for that particular machine.
 
  by: viral1   02/09/2009 02:08 AM     
 
 
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