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02/21/2009 04:34 PM ID: 77172 Permalink   

GM Joins the Millionaire's Club


On the lowest day for the Dow Jones Industrial Average since 1997, the combined value of all outstanding shares of General Motors Corp. dropped below the $1 billion mark to $929 million, with each share worth just $1.52, a one-day drop of 48 cents.

With the shares so low, the company is now at the very real possibility of being removed from the S&P 500 index, of which it now accounts for less than 0.15 percent. The last time GM was worth so little per share was in 1938.

Earlier in the week, GM announced that it would need $19 billion of government bailout dollars to stay alive. By this drop in share price, investors seem skeptical of GM's chances.

    WebReporter: Mister crank Show Calling Card      
ASSESS this news: BLOCK this news. Reason:
is falling down, falling down.
  by: Mannyishere     02/21/2009 05:13 PM     
  I have no sympathy for these thieves…  
They sold me a new S-10 ZR-2 pickup and it was the biggest lemon I have ever owned. It was getting 6.7 mpg and after contacting them over a dozen times in a year they refused to acknowledge there was anything wrong with it or fix it. I took it back to them as I couldn’t afford to drive it and took a $7K loss. FU GM, go to hell and rot you bastards. If this is the way you treat your customers you have earned your just rewards, bankruptcy. Let someone that cares about their product and their customers take their place and serve the public. That’s how the ball bounces, that's how I roll.
  by: valkyrie123     02/21/2009 05:33 PM     
  Union Helping them?  
Union is glad they keep getting theese loans...
Business as usuall is good for union.

I wonder if they will be part of the soultion of the downfall of the company.
  by: zortona   02/21/2009 06:03 PM     
GM has had a unionized workforce since the 1930s. The notion that it's the union that's bringing GM down now is, frankly, ridiculous.
  by: ben_reilly     02/21/2009 06:58 PM     
You know car dealerships operate independently, right?

I see you keep posting this rant, but it never gets any more relevant.
  by: erasedgod   02/21/2009 07:18 PM     
its all reality not ridiculous.

the unions are the ROOT CAUSE of the fall of GM.

other automakers like toyota and honda had the same type of loses like gm , toyota and honda were down 39% if not more.. are they struggling? NO


because they dont have UNION DUES.

a typical UAW worker makes about 70-80$ a hour with all there benefits factored in.

a typical honda or toyota employee make about 40 bucks a hour and thats the total of it all.

also the UAW hates to take cuts and just asked for more more more when there company is going down down down, theycant realize there sucking GM dry.

if you fail to see the unions is the root cause then your blind.

i have many other things to say about this too, just dont feel like typing it, ive said it here all before..

i own gm and other american brands, i buy gm and other american brands and im satisfied.
  by: cray0la     02/21/2009 08:26 PM     
  @ ben_reilly  
I didnt say they were the cause, I did ask if they were going to help or just continue with current "concessions".

Concessions with the union are a condition of the $17.4 billion Government loan (our money)

'Base wages for UAW workers will remain the same, but the deal limits supplemental pay that laid-off workers'

I say file chapter 11 and rip thoose contracts in half

  by: zortona   02/21/2009 08:44 PM     
I think many agree with unions leeching tax payer dollars and them needing to have salt thrown on them...

But your only pushing limbaugh talking points. You need to open the other eye and see that their management is bankrupt also. They need to grow some testicles, stop the bs and handle the unions(manage their employee's).

Also, the GM management has about the vision of Ray Charles, after the last DECADE of seeing their stock value errode, fuel prices doubling and redoubleing, and STILL focusing their sales on 14 mpg pickups, suvs, and suburbans....

GM is a failed business on all levels, and ultimately needs to be allowed to fail.
  by: ukcn001XYZ   02/21/2009 09:24 PM     
  @zortona, Cray0la  
Actually, they're failing because they do, and have for a while, made s#!tty cars. And becaue they saw the warning signs years ago while saying "fuel efficiency is not a road we want to bother going down" while picking just the low-hanging fruit of SUVs. So I say f--- GM, f--- their management, and f--- all their employees. They all deserve to go down, and the ones with real skills to contribute will get jobs soon enough at another car manufacturer who will emerge to soak up the market share that GM's bloated and rotting carcass leaves behind.
  by: Mister crank     02/22/2009 04:28 AM     
  Gm makes good cars  
and your blind if you do not see that.

they also make more cars with a higher MPG then any other auto maker, they have done as much as possible to make efficient cars with great MPG.

but you have to look At it as SUVs as there top sellers, pickup trucks are still at the top of the list of most sold vehicles, so they took advantages of where the money was, the market changed and so did they, i agree there management wasnt in line, but they still made the changes to more fuel efficient cars and trucks.

look at there line up, they got the mvp of MPG they call it, so it has nothing to do with the cars they made, i think 90% of it is the UAW, remember Toyota, honda and others made gas guzzler SUVs too.
  by: cray0la     02/22/2009 07:59 AM     
Why are you suddenly calling everyone blind?
  by: ben_reilly     02/22/2009 08:11 AM     
Top 10 fuel efficient 2009 cars
1.) Toyota Prius: 48 mpg
2.) Honda Civic Hybrid: 40
3.) Nissan Altima Hybrid: 35
4.) Ford Escape/Mariner Hybrid 2WD: 34
5.) Smart Fortwo: 33
6.) Toyota Camry Hybrid: 33
7.) Volkswagen Jetta/SportWagen Diesel: 30
8.) Toyota Yaris: 29
9.) Mini Cooper: 28
10.) Honda FIt: 28

I don't see anything GM on that list.
  by: ukcn001XYZ   02/22/2009 04:43 PM     
Best-selling vehicles of 2008:

* Ford F-Series: 515,513
* Chevy Silverado: 465,065
* Toyota Camry: 436,617
* Honda Accord: 372,789
* Toyota Corolla: 351,007
* Honda Civic: 339,289
* Nissan Altima: 269,668
* Chevy Impala: 265,840
* Dodge Ram: 245,840
* Honda CR-V: 197,279

Not a GM on there.

And the anti-union people here have yet to explain how GM made it just fine for over 70 years with a unionized labor force, but now, suddenly, the union is somehow the "ROOT CAUSE" of GM's problems.
  by: ben_reilly     02/22/2009 05:40 PM     
  @ukcn & Ben  
@UK: That's because your list is bullshit.

Off the top of my head, I know the Cobalt XFE gets 37 mpg (assuming you're talking about freeway fuel economy.) Hell, even the Cobalt SS gets 30 and it's turbocharged.

@Ben: Your list is better. It's your perception that's bullshit. The Chevy Silverado and Impala are both GM.

As for the unions being there for 70 years, have the unions been making the exact same demands for 70 years? Have the demands adjusted according to the economy? Just having a union doesn't mean the union can't cause problems.
  by: erasedgod   02/22/2009 09:09 PM     
My bad -- I can never remember which lines GM owns; I was actually double-checking the Ford and Chrysler models.

"As for the unions being there for 70 years, have the unions been making the exact same demands for 70 years? Have the demands adjusted according to the economy? Just having a union doesn't mean the union can't cause problems."

Hey, I'm not the one who accused unions of causing all these problems for the company. I'd say it's up to the accusers to prove their point, not me. All I'm saying is, it seems suspicious that conservatives, who have always hated unions, now say that unions are tearing down the American auto industry, even though that industry has been unionized for a long, long time.

When you're known for pushing a particular agenda, and you start saying something that fits perfectly into that agenda, you should offer ample proof that you're not simply saying it because of your agenda.
  by: ben_reilly     02/22/2009 09:15 PM     
  lol@silverado not being gm  
and ya know... down with american businesses altogether. they are irresponsible and they attempt to enslave us and citizens of other countries by exploiting their labor laws and taking advantage of people. boo hoo the unions stand up and fight for a standard of living for their employees. because guess what, profit is useless unless that money is going to someone who can use it! who cares if they only have 900 million dollars stop spending money RIGHT NOW sell some cars and you'll have MORE money. idiots. salesmen pay for themselves so i gues you'll have to fire some exec's or somethin!
  by: mrmarler     02/22/2009 09:37 PM     
Point taken.
  by: erasedgod   02/22/2009 09:38 PM     
After trying to get the dealership to fix the problem I dealt with GM directly for over 4 months with the same results, they refused to acknowledge any problem and refused to fix my truck. We have a huge loophole in the lemon law in Minnesota. As long as the dealer and manufacturer refuse to acknowledge there is a problem there is nothing the consumer can do. Screw GM, they can rot in hell and I will scream this message from the highest towers till they are in their grave. I will warn everyone that will listen. They will learn that one dissatisfied customer is equal to 100 satisfied customers. Take care of business or you will have no business.
  by: valkyrie123     02/23/2009 01:59 AM     
"your list is shit"

list source @

and note it's new just on the market 2009 vehicles, not 08,07,06...
  by: ukcn001XYZ   02/23/2009 03:46 AM     
  @Val & UK  
@ValSorry to hear that. Of the three cars I've owned, two have been GM (both Pontiacs). I had no problems with the first up to the point I sold it at about 140,000 miles. The second I still own. It's at about 91,000 miles. I know that's my experience and not anyone else's.

I'm in the process of buying my third GM (fourth car overall). I don't think my buying experience could be any better.

@UK: I see from your link that you only posted the City list and not both. From that same link, you can see GM has 2 vehicles (under four badges) in the top 10 for highway. They also have the most efficient standard pickup truck and cargo van.

I think a problem most people who talk down GM have is that they are clueless as to what cars are made by GM.
  by: erasedgod   02/23/2009 04:31 AM     
im not pushing limburger points, im pushing MY OWN POINTS on the issue.

its just kinda funny how each automaker has had a huge drop in sales and a few use the UAW and there the ones with the problems, while on top of that there employees make twice as much money as the other automakers who arent going to run out of money.

unions is 90% of there problems, the UAW is a cancer to GM, while GM is making cuts and trying to make it work the UAW just sits there with there hand out demanding more more more, while gm cannot keep giving. every time GM tries to tell the UAW look we need to cut pay and benefits they strike, say NO and will not accept it, GM cannot let that happen so they need to budge and give them what they want, christ even the head of the UAW was next to the CEOs when they went to congress just like they were a Auto Indusrty CEO, its pathetic.

i have to argue that the Big 3 make great cars, Ben you didnt even know that the chevy impala and silverado were even GM cars, shows how much you know about the indusrty, there everywhere, i cant go down the road without seeing a impala.

im more of a luxury car kinda guy but right now for the last few months ive been driving a 09 dodge avenger sxt, and it may be small for my usual northstar v8 cruiser, but i really like the car, i think its well built, roomy and priced right. it also gets over 30mpg on the hwy..

lets talk gm, they may not be on that list but prius sales are down what 50%? while like E.G. said the cobalt XFE gets 37mpg on the Hwy, thats GREAT for a non hybrid, imagine the XFE cobalt with a hybrid version, it would blow a pruis out the water, imagine a avenger hybrid, it would be just as fuel efficent.

like i said go to click on chevy, pontiac or any of there brands and see how many fuel efficent models they make and there numbers, there not lagging any other automaker in them.

the same auto makers you seem to praise for a pruis or a insight have the same gas guzzling Suvs just like the big 3, most of GMs cars are fuel efficient, and every auto brand has a gas guzzler.

heres a short list of great GM cars that are fuel efficient.

chevy cobalt xfe-37mpg hwy
chevy aveo-34mph hwy
chevy aveo 5 door- 34mpg hwy
chevy malibu- 3mpg hwy
chevy impala-29mpg hwy

heres the shocker

chevy hhr- 32mpg hwy
chevy traverse crossover- 24mpg hwy
chevy equinox small suv- 24 mpg hwy

lets go to pontiac
pontiac vibe- 32mpg hwy

most of the other pontiacs are copies of chevy like the g5 is basically the cobalt and so on

saturn aura- 33mpg hwy
saturn astrea- 34 mpg hwy

i didnt even get into there hybirds

80-85% of there cars are gas sippers, more then any other automaker.
they do not make that many SUVS like they used too,

i think gm needs to not make so many copies of there cars, saturn needs to be scrapped, pontiac is going to be special order, and hummer will be sold.

im sorry with all this obvious info GM is a great car brand that adjusted to the market demand for fuel efficent cars,
i didnt even get into there hybrids or there chevy volt electric coming out.

  by: cray0la     02/23/2009 06:39 AM     
  Volkswagen AG  
all the way! The German built ones of course, not the sh*t from Mexico, the U.S. and elsewhere. GM going down the drain, pulling Opel along with them.
  by: UKPUNK1   02/23/2009 11:01 AM     
  By the way...  
How the hell do you get stock data from 1938? The internet apparently refuses to list data before 1970. I guess you have to pay for these listings, but why is there no free site?
  by: H. W. Hutchins   02/24/2009 05:55 AM     
  it's not just labor cost  
You forget there's tremendous "setup" costs in the auto industry. The old guard is only economical at huge volumes. That'll always be true in a sense, but it's the companies that can be big AND nimble with their fixed costs that will win out.

GM is screwed on both accounts with fixed and variable costs. They have had some tremendous fixed cost flops (think development of ALL those new models that no one even knows and existed for only a few years). I think the number I saw is it takes about $2.5B to $3B to develop 1 new car model and bring it to market. (Never sounded right to me I think it means car platform, but whatever, it's a ton!)

It's also misuse of the labor you do use. This is of course hard to account for but nothing makes me think that especially GM can retain good talent up and down the board. If you were the top mechanic in the world, would you want to work for them? Or would you rather go some place else where they pay you based on YOUR merit alone?

Here are my accounts from the places I've seen:

I've toured the Hyundai plant in Korea and can tell you it was WAY more automated than any plant I've seen in the U.S. and I've been to apparently the "grand daddy" of them all the Ford Rouge plant (F-series trucks) and there were noticeable more people running around, especially at final assembly.

I've never toured a Toyota plant but I dealt with them extensively. I can tell you that they are just much better at reading the market and their operations management will track down every screw if something looks awry. Interestingly they are NOT nearly as automated as Hyundai IMO. There's also no pulling punches if you ever deal with their management, the goal is clear -- take out GM and take out Ford by whatever means necessary. Most companies I see keep an eye on the competition but are PC about it. These guys flat out want to crush the competition.

Honda seems more research focused and if you look at the company size it's minuscule compared to other manufacturers. They just build good products through their R&D and call it a day.

And if you don't think the same kind of personalities don't exist in banking you're dead wrong. There's some pushovers, some peace makers, and then some definite pirate personalities.
  by: doodadood   02/26/2009 03:43 AM     
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