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07/06/2009 10:33 AM ID: 79500 Permalink   

Atheist Billboard Upsets Florida Residents, Demand it be Removed

 

Some in Fort Lauderdale are claiming that a billboard for the Florida Atheist and Secular Humanist Society (FLASH) is an affront to Christianity and want it gone because it's in a black neighborhood and by a business owned by born-again Christians.

The sign reads, "Being a good person doesn't require God. Don't believe in God? You're not alone. http://www.FreeThoughFlorida.com." FLASH President Ken Loukinen said his aim was "basically to let [the public] know that atheists can be good, moral people."

Nearby business owner Theodore Hamilton said: "Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Christian, whoever you are, we all believe in a spiritual higher being. When you have something like this here, people don't want to come and patronize us anymore."

 
  Source: www.wsvn.com  
    WebReporter: caution2 Show Calling Card      
  Recommendation:  
ASSESS this news: BLOCK this news. Reason:
   
  69 Comments
  
  Couldn't fit this in, but made me laugh  
 
"After seeing the billboard, Team of Life community activist Essie 'Big Mama' Reed brought her students out to protest it Wednesday afternoon. 'Nothing else matters, but that sign needs to come down. In the name of Jesus,' Big Mama chanted, as she led her students in protest. She said the sign affects something much deeper than business. 'I don't know the reason for putting this sign up,' said Big Mama. 'It says "Do not believe in God." How are we going to make it? Look at our schools, everyday. Everyday there's something going on. Kids are out here killing each other, kids are here using drugs. Who else are they going to believe in?'"
 
  by: caution2     07/06/2009 10:40 AM     
  And Jesus Quintana said:  
 
Laughable, man - ha ha!

:)
 
  by: baraka     07/06/2009 11:59 AM     
  @Big Mama  
 
"It says 'Do not believe in God.'"
No, it doesn't, you illiterate fool.

"Who else are they going to believe in?"
Themselves, perhaps. They can do great things to fight the issues of drugs and murder. They can be good people. And it doesn't require god. Read the sign. Think about it.
 
  by: Ec5618   07/06/2009 12:35 PM     
  To each his own...  
 
"Being a good person doesn't require God"

Really? Good based on who's standards? If everyone is doing what's good in their own eyes, then there's no such thing as a definite good, is there? What's good to person A may be bad to person B. What's good to society A may be bad to society B.

It seems that statement really doesn't make sense... but hey, Free Speech right? I respect their right.

Let this be a Christian billboard in a predominately Atheist neighborhood.... WHOOOOO!!! People ain't havin that. lol.
 
  by: C.O.G.   07/06/2009 12:58 PM     
  @C.O.G.  
 
"Good based on who's standards?"
You're implying that belief in god leads to a singular set of morals. Which, as you know, is complete nonsense.

Or am I assuming too much intellectual honesty on your part? Will you insist that religious people share a common morality, even in the face of 9/11, the Crusades, the Westboro Babtist Church, and so many other examples?
At this point, it wouldn't surprise me.
 
  by: Ec5618   07/06/2009 01:09 PM     
  Well...  
 
I see these big posters as I drive down the streets in my country spouting on about the wonders of joining the oversized cults spread across these countries - if I complained or made a fuss do you think I'd get heard?

And yes, good is subjective, however I like to think of good as 'That which is life-affirming, creates, generates and heals. That which allows positive and healthy feeling without damaging. That which will stand against those that cause or allow deliberate pain, anguish, suffering, destruction, deceit or death.'.
 
  by: chiffington   07/06/2009 02:37 PM     
  @COG  
 
In the crusades (and right after 9-11), "good Christians" meant killing as many Muslims as they could.

What is good and evil is subjective to the morality of a given society at any time. The base values of what is good and bad should be common sense (don't kill/steal/etc), for the betterment and stability of society. I don't need a holy book to tell me that stealing my neighbor's wife is a bad idea.
 
  by: syoware   07/06/2009 02:50 PM     
  @Cog  
 
In your opinion, is slavery good or bad?

I hope you know where I'm going with this...
 
  by: syoware   07/06/2009 02:53 PM     
  Ignorance...  
 
Anyone that demands it should be offered a chance to have it removed at the price of their own free speech.
 
  by: Pyronius     07/06/2009 03:23 PM     
  Eh..  
 
Demands that it should be removed that is..eh..it's early still o.O
 
  by: Pyronius     07/06/2009 03:24 PM     
  @COG  
 
So you think that without belief in god, we aren't capable of knowing what is right and what is wrong? I don't believe in god, that doesn't mean I go around stealing, killing people (or animals) or deliberately causing any sort of harm to anyone or anything. Belief in god doesn't give you the morals to be a good person, it simply gives you the fear not to be bad. You shouldn't need fear in order to be a good person.
 
  by: TabbyCool     07/06/2009 04:28 PM     
  I see  
 
I see pro-life signs all over the damn place, what's the difference? Those actually offend me. But i don't go around bitching and whining about it. I don't see what the big deal is. the churches are probably mad because it means lost revenue for them, cause they're businesses after all.
 
  by: ludwitr   07/06/2009 04:46 PM     
  Good gosh,  
 
lol.

@ Syoware-
Okay, I understand. But I'm sure that there are things in your life that others would find bad that you find good. So still, there is no concrete "good" there. I think we all can agree that killing/stealing/etc is bad. Where do those set morals come from?

Slavery? I feel that you should love your neighbor and apply the golden rule. I have a few ideas where you're going, but just so I won't make assumptions, tell me what's on your mind. If you're gonna throw the Scripture in there, I invite you to do the research on why God said what He said about these people. Did they place their own selves in slavery?

Come on with the Crusades bit. That was a lil while ago. I cannot speak for the next Christian or the next man in general, but I don't kill Muslims. I'm black, should I still hold white people responsible for enslaving my ancestors?

@ Tabby-
What if my "good" morals say that yours are bad... does that still make yours good? Let's say that I hated gays and I thought they were bad, and I thought it would be good to ridicule them... what gives you the reason to tell me that I'm bad if there is no set moral standard? What if a person raped my newborn child and got away... do I have the right to find and beat that person silly? I mean, beating someone silly is wrong, right? I'm hurting someone else.

Where do morals come from? If one says they evolved over time, how would you describe this situation?

Let's say it's (fill in the blank) B.C. I am traveling to find food in a foreign land because there is a drought in my home land. I don't know the locals dialect and have no way to communicate with them (language & culture barrier). I see they have a delicious cut of meat and my family is starving to death. They are the only people around for miles and my children are about to die. They don't want to share their meat, but I need to feed my family. What is the correct moral decision? Ya know, what's good, and what's bad?

Btw- I don't hate gays.
 
  by: C.O.G.   07/06/2009 04:53 PM     
  @COG  
 
"Really? Good based on who's standards? If everyone is doing what's good in their own eyes, then there's no such thing as a definite good, is there? What's good to person A may be bad to person B. What's good to society A may be bad to society B."

so are christiabns good people when they go dooor to door harassing people to sign up to their flock of sheeple?, because i don't consider that moral... you don't see me going door to door trying to convert believers.. nope but if they come to my door they get my opinion of how ignorant and primative their beleifs are.

is it good when religious people put out proo-religious statement, because if this atheist billboard is offenseive imagine how offensive it is to have a sign out wrong condeming athiests, gays, and basically everything that isn't of their cult of choice, to me such people wouldn't be considered moral on any objective level if you hold that the atheists that do so aren't moral people.

and likewise a religious person that thinks everyone should be a mindless god-wad ISN'T a good person to me.

and no morals are not definate nor absolute... anyone with half a brain knows thats... but the religious people just can't seem to grasp that morals "don't actually come from "god" but rather from our OWN society, what OTHER PEOPLE teach usm, namely parents and schools, hence why morals differ from society to society, in many african countries killing is not considered immoral under most cases because in their "society" (and i use that term very loosely here) they're still in fight or flight... basically they are in some cases are nothing than wild animals (yes humans are animals, i know the bible doesn't say so but its true).

... basically in the end morals are human invention to keep the less civilized humans in line.

"It seems that statement really doesn't make sense... but hey, Free Speech right? I respect their right."

are you illiterate? (rhetorical question)... its a pretty definate and simple statement... i'm sure i can find children under the age of 10 that can understand it... so how does it not make sense?... because in YOUR OPINION only christians or other believers can be good people?,. yet in reality they aren't even being good people they are being OBEDIENT people... there's nothing good, insightful or intellectual in being an obedient follower... all it proves is most people aren't strong enough as INDIVIDUALS to be good people themselves... i don't need a "god" to make moral choices... why?, because i'm a moral person WITHOUT religion... in my opinion, as far as morals go, religion is for people who don't themselves have a strong code of ethics that they can uphold to themselves, an atheist or agnostic to be considered a moral person, ACTUALLY has to be a moral person, because for some reason believer are always considered moral be default and non religious people as immoral by default even when believers act with gross immorality and hateful intolerance.

i'll attempt to simplify the billboard for you, "atheists can be good people, if your an atheist, you're not alone, there are other atheists".

"Let this be a Christian billboard in a predominately Atheist neighborhood.... WHOOOOO!!! People ain't havin that. lol."

atheists have been tolerating this crap since man invented religion, i cannot tell you how backwards and contradictory to reality that your statement is

where's a atheist neighborhood?, i always wanted to move to a smarter place... on the other hand you can't walk 5 blocks without seeing a church, a cross or a religious statement... and yet when an atheist group puts up a sign the religious community loses their shit, as if the sign was a threat to existance or nonexistance of "god", the only thing it might pose a threat to is the ease of religious indoctrination, which i hate to tell you , but thats actually a good thing as it would imply people are actually thinking rather than mindlessly accepting whatever they're told, as most people do.

if a person needs "god" to have morals it's because that person doesn't have any to begin with.

doing wrong to a person then asking "god" for forgiveness isn't what ANY moral person would do, yet thats the religious MO, a truely moral person wouldn't need to ask "god" (anything of a moral standing) and would make amends themselves with the person they wronged.

i have yet to meet even one religious person that is a moral person for the sake of being a good person, but rather most religious people seem to only act moral as to avoid "hell"... morality through fear isn't morality at all, just the same as respect through fear isn't respect at all... morality and respect both come from social understanding, not a primative diety-based beleif structure.

and might i add NO MAJOR RELIGION is a moral nor respectful religion just look at their history history... better yet... look at our present. hell, just a few weeks ago a christian nutcase killed a doctor becaus
 
  by: HAVOC666     07/06/2009 05:00 PM     
  @ Havoc  
 
First of all, what's a christiabns?

You proved my point here:

"so are christiabns good people when they go dooor to door harassing people to sign up to their flock of sheeple?, because i don't consider that moral... you don't see me going door to door trying to convert believers.. nope but if they come to my door they get my opinion of how ignorant and primative their beleifs are."

What's good without a set standard? Everyone does what's good in their own eyes.

"is it good when religious people put out proo-religious statement, because if this atheist billboard is offenseive imagine how offensive it is to have a sign out wrong condeming athiests, gays, and basically everything that isn't of their cult of choice, to me such people wouldn't be considered moral on any objective level if you hold that the atheists that do so aren't moral people."

When did I say it was wrong to do what they did? Put the bong down. lol

Where's an atheist neighborhood? I dunno, "think for yourself" and look one up. lol. I dunno, start one...

"doing wrong to a person then asking "god" for forgiveness isn't what ANY moral person would do,"

In your opinion. I respect that. Try to understand what I (a Christian) would do if I wronged someone.

"i have yet to meet even one religious person that is a moral person for the sake of being a good person"

Well, I'd like to introduce you to me. I like being good for goodness sake. I'm in Christ, therefore I do my best to emulate Christ. That is being genuinely good to the best of my ability.

"and might i add NO MAJOR RELIGION is a moral nor respectful religion just look at their history history... "

Is the religion of atheism better? Is your name-calling good?

I can't believe you asked another human being if they are illiterate. My jaw dropped.

 
  by: C.O.G.   07/06/2009 05:09 PM     
  Well  
 
"Really? Good based on who's standards? "
Hopefully not any "holy" books, because they're pretty poor and outdated.
http://youtube.com/...
 
  by: Kaleid   07/06/2009 05:10 PM     
  Get it together  
 
For the life of me I cant figure out why you put christians on a pedestal and expect them to behave better than anyone else. the only thing I can think of is its the christians you've had the unluck of meeting in your life.

"NO MAJOR RELIGION is a moral nor respectful religion just look at their history history... better yet... look at our present. hell, just a few weeks ago a christian nutcase killed a doctor becaus"

see this is a stupid thing to say, you can replace "religion" with any nation or country and have it apply; you can do it with any race of people.

on the same note, what if he had been a gay black christian? would you say the same thing about him being black and gay? Of course not, but it's the same thinking applied behind that statement.
 
  by: Devnal2   07/06/2009 05:15 PM     
  @COG (continued)  
 
and might i add NO MAJOR RELIGION is a moral nor respectful religion just look at their history history... better yet... look at our present. hell, just a few weeks ago a christian nutcase killed a doctor because he provides the medical service that is abortion... thats certianly wasn't moral... all the chirstian soldiers in iraq, afghanistan and pakistan (yes the US doesn' have troops in pakistan, not offically of course), they aren't moral people, all the religious people excerising their hateful intolerance of nonbelievers, gays or other such non-religiously accepted groups aren't moral people.... but they ALL claim to be.

"I think we all can agree that killing/stealing/etc is bad. Where do those set morals come from?"

society... and if you retort and say society get them from the bible will laugh at you, because that would be clear evidence of ignorance, not to mention religious indoctrination (brainwashing; programming)... as most the the morals from the bible were stolen from eygptian beliefs (thats where all the main fundamentals of any hewbrew-"originating" religion come from, btw), ultimately morals have ALWAYS come from society, we just invent religions and insert morals then demand people follow them

"Did they place their own selves in slavery?"

no, no one would. despite what-ever the bioble might have to say about it its nonsenseical to assume ANYONE wants slavery EXCEPT slavers... and FYI, slavery was acceptable in your religion... atleast until societieas around the world called for a stop to such an immoral, disrespectful abuses of other humans.

"Come on with the Crusades bit. That was a lil while ago. I cannot speak for the next Christian or the next man in general, but I don't kill Muslims. I'm black, should I still hold white people responsible for enslaving my ancestors?"

what you don't like to be reminded of your religion immoral and bloody history? tuff, pick a religion that isn't historical immoral, or deal with that not everyone will forget what your religion has done to people and attempted to justify their immoral actions for hundreds of years. "if you sleep with dogs don't be surprised if you wake up with fleas."

as for holding slavery against white, no, holding it against them would be rather stupid, as such people (slavers) are long since dead, however me being white i'd say NEVER let people forget what happened... that would be like germans forgetting about hitler... thats just asking for it to happen again, atrocities should always be remembered as to insure they never happen again. beit slavery, the crusade, the use of nuclear weapons, warmongering, geocide, politicide, none of this should ever be fergotten... and certianly NEVER forgiven, but always remembered with disgust and contempt.


as for your wandering example, thats a GREAT example of why moral are not absolute nor of a devine nature bestow on people... because quite frankly unless you can convince them to share or sell their food, and there's no other food around there really isn't a moral answer to be had at all, as allowing your family to die would be immoral, so would killing nor harming others for their food... when there's no moral answer the answer is usually fight or flight... my personal/religious philosphy though would have this to say "survival is the highest law", so while both actions are immoral one is inherently more immoral than the other as acting like an animal to survive isn't inherently immoral despite the required actions for such would be (in a civilized society) but is infact more natural than civilized life, and therefor is not immoral in-and-of-itself.

again this kind of example only proves the point that morals are subjective, and that there isn't any moral standard, except that which the society we live in puts forward, not just to certian groups of people but to different situations as well... morals are scarce in desperation.
 
  by: HAVOC666     07/06/2009 05:36 PM     
  Good Is Subjective ?  
 
Stqart the Inquisition. Heat up the iron rods.Start the witch burning fires.Behead the infidel. Stone the unbeliever. Kill the girl for violating Sharia. Mark the harlot with a scarlet letter.

We need protection from religion.
 
  by: ichi     07/06/2009 05:44 PM     
  @COG  
 
"What's good without a set standard? Everyone does what's good in their own eyes."

so are you argueeing that there isn't a moral standards, because if so, i actually agree with you.

"When did I say it was wrong to do what they did? Put the bong down. lol"

you didn't nor did i assume you did hence the US of the word "if" i wasn't actually directly towards you as in that you think its wrong. but rather that they think its wrong,

"Where's an atheist neighborhood? I dunno, "think for yourself" and look one up. lol. I dunno, start one..."

there isn't one... not in nother america anways... that was my point there AREN'T any atheist neighborhoods.

"In your opinion. I respect that. Try to understand what I (a Christian) would do if I wronged someone. "

i do... what i don't understand is WHY?, it makes no sense to ask "god" for fogiveness to a wrong commited on john.

"Well, I'd like to introduce you to me. I like being good for goodness sake. I'm in Christ, therefore I do my best to emulate Christ. That is being genuinely good to the best of my ability."

do you believe that if you don't do such or following the bible you go to "hell", or at least not to "heaven"... if so you proved my point... acting good to avoid punishment isn't good at all but rather just an act.

"Is the religion of atheism better?"

it might be time to look up the word "religion" if you think atheism is a religion, atheism doesn't fit the bill.

"Is your name-calling good?"

good... bad... its a genuine observation from me... you can all it name-calling if you wish but if a person is ignorant i have no problem calling them on it... when i call a person stupid, ignorant or such things, its not out of malice but rather from a brutally honest observation.

"I can't believe you asked another human being if they are illiterate. My jaw dropped."

i wasn't the one that couldn't understand a simple statement... literacy is the ability to used and understand language... not about being anal about spelling... thats another word you can look up.

i might not care too much about my spelling on a public forum, but my ability to communicate through language conversely understand language is far from impeded from such complacency on my spelling (and punctuation for that matter, which is also less than perfect...lol).
 
  by: HAVOC666     07/06/2009 06:06 PM     
  Why not?  
 
There's about 1000 of those 'god' messages all the way down I-95 from Jacksonville to Miami...and one little atheist sign pops up and people freak out. If you're that sensitive about your god obviously your faith isn't on a steady foundation.
 
  by: DoubleTake   07/06/2009 06:11 PM     
  Weee *splash*  
 
Where oh where to start. Wait I know where and sorry but I am putting religion or lack of to a side. See there is this great little thing known as feedom in the US. Yes, yes I know it is shrinking daily but right now we do still have enough left to let ANY organization to put up a billboard they pay for.

If I have to be forced to see signs with an aborted fetus on it then the organized flock can deal with a view different of their own for a few months and get on with their lives.

And really who cares what the business owner is next door or if it is in a African American area. Shit I'm white in mostly black neighboorhood. Should that mean all the people not black move their businesses out of the area? Of course not and how silly to even think so.

There is such a thing called religious freedom or lack thereof. Nobody HAS to believe in your or my higher power. Also you do not need to have religion to be moral. I know it is shocking but there were moral people before jesus came down. The basic live a good life, don't harm anyone was around WAY before jesus.

Again it is a sign watch it go away or it would have in 1-3 months if people didn't make such a stink. I am not willing to bend or lose my freedoms based on any religion anymore than we already have.



 
  by: TaraB     07/06/2009 06:26 PM     
  @COG  
 
You: "Come on with the Crusades bit. That was a lil while ago"

Good logic. Since it happened so long ago, @syoware can't use it in an argument... wait, when was the bible written? That was a little bit ago, wasn't it?

The moral definition of good that I learned had nothing to do with god. Its simply "That which brings about the most good, to the most people."

You: "Let's say that I hated gays and I thought they were bad, and I thought it would be good to ridicule them." Well the "good" thing would be to not ridicule anyone, right? So thinking that ridiculing anyone is OK, is in fact wrong.

And can "we all can agree that killing/stealing/etc is bad"? I know of a bible verse that states if a man lies with another man his blood should be spilled. That sounds like a Christian, pro-killing diatribe to me.
 
  by: barryman9001   07/06/2009 07:58 PM     
  God without morals  
 
It is a classic philosophical debate - do morals exist because of God or separate from Him?

The basic debate goes like this: if morals are defined by God then He could tell you to kill your neighbor and you would be right to do so. However, if you put yourself in that situation would you *feel right* about doing it? If not, then clearly morals must be separate from God since He can command it but you'd still feel wrong about it. Therefore morals and God are not synonymous and one can moral without believing in God.

One way to test this theory (that morals are separate from God) is to observe (without interfering) an indigenous tribe people who have not been exposed to religion as we know it and observe whether or not they exhibit the same types of morals we consider universal (respect life, respect one another, be compassionate to one another, etc.)

I don't know of any actual studies (if it's even possibly anymore) but I would not be surprised to learn they still have a respect for the lives of one another.
 
  by: StringBlade   07/06/2009 08:44 PM     
  Another question - am I immoral?  
 
I was raised Catholic and went to church for many years. I learned the 10 commandments and was taught morals from the church and my parents.

However, by the end of high school I had decided for myself that religion and the church hold to certain viewpoints that I do not agree with and we went our separate ways.

I consider myself agnostic because I have nothing to prove one way or the other God's (non-)existence. But I still believe it's wrong to commit murder or hate groups of people or steal (and so forth).

Because I don't believe in God, does that mean I'm not moral? Does it mean I that was moral but am not any more? Does it mean I am moral only because I was exposed to religion and those not exposed are necessarily immoral?

I'm going to state that any answer of "no, you're not moral" is rather silly on the grounds of my actions prove me to be far more moral than the faithful such as former Governor Spitzer, and current Governor Sanford. I love my wife and have (and will always) be faithful to her because that's who I am, not because God exists (or doesn't).
 
  by: StringBlade   07/06/2009 08:54 PM     
  .  
 
"Atheist Billboard Upsets Florida Residents, Demand it be Removed"

if you have faith, why would a billboard saying you don't need god should upset you?

or maybe are they just afraid of the truth ? there is no god, and religions are nothing more than a scam with a LOT of blood on their hands.

in fact if there is one thing i could consider put on trial for crimes against humanity, it would be religions.
 
  by: ProTesTa     07/06/2009 09:54 PM     
  @C.O.G  
 
"Let this be a Christian billboard in a predominately Atheist neighborhood.... WHOOOOO!!! People ain't havin that. lol."

Uh, yes, they've been having that for a long time, as many people here have pointed out. I've seen billboards promoting religion in the heart of L.A. and yes, even godless Hollywood. So, just what recent injustices towards Christians has led you to make such inaccurate assumptions?
 
  by: MomentOfClarity     07/07/2009 12:43 AM     
  @Havoc  
 
"where's a atheist neighborhood?"

We should start one.

Anyway, this kind of crap is the stuff that makes me cheer church burnings. Do whatever the hell you want, put up your signs, but don't you dare tell me what to do.
 
  by: DaReapaMan   07/07/2009 03:01 AM     
  Wow it's like  
 
Floriduh in here.
 
  by: H. W. Hutchins   07/07/2009 06:42 AM     
  That Darn Freedom Of Speach  
 
Why can't just the good god fearing people have it. The other guys are just a bunch of atheists anyways.
 
  by: ichi     07/07/2009 08:14 AM     
  now  
 
they know how the world feels when they try forcing their religion down everyone's throat. grab your ankles and touch your toes
 
  by: ru18yet   07/07/2009 08:51 AM     
  @  
 
Havoc- you just further proved my point that there is no such thing as good without a set standard. Your knowledge of the Bible is horrible, lol, and you keep speaking in ignorance. Just because we (as people of God) have messed up repeatedly, doesn't mean that the Word is bad... we even fall short of our God's moral standards which points us directly to (drumroll please) JESUS CHRIST and our need for Him. You just showed why the Bible says what it says.

But at the end of the day, you can choose to believe what you want. But you know (which has been my point all along), that there is no "good" without a set standard... making what the individual said in the article of no sense. My whole point.

@ Tara- when did I say what they did was wrong? I said I may not agree with it, but I respect their free speech.

@ Barry- I would agree with your point, but the Word of God is everlasting... it endures for ALL generations. The Crusades don't. I'm sorry if you have been killed by a group of angry Christians, but that would bring up a very interesting set of questions if you were.........

that which brings about the most good? Says who? That's your and the other individuals *opinion*, everybody's got an opinion. That doesn't make it right. This leads us back to my first point. Without a distinct "good", everyone does what's right in their own eyes. What's good to you may be bad to me, so does that still make what you do "good"?

Also, that Bible verse you bring up, be sure to research it before you mention it. Failure to do so would be called ignorance. Isn't this sort of a "sin" in atheism? What's really going on in that verse, and are Christians commanded to kill gays? Are you sure about this?

MOC-
"So, just what recent injustices towards Christians has led you to make such inaccurate assumptions?"

What are you talking about? Are you sure that people in Hollywood don't claim a religion?

 
  by: C.O.G.   07/07/2009 09:18 AM     
  COG  
 
I wasn't speaking to you specifically, moreso to the article and the people that are complaining about how wrong it is.

*puts on religion hat*
As for the bible I was raised with the pauline version(s). The bible was approved until some 300+ years A.D.(325 being one of the most accepted datees) now tell me who remembers everything from then AND why they chose the patriarchal religion. They destroyed, hid and burned many different gospels that were written by men and women actually there. Paul did not know Jesus in his life as many others did. In fact the Church has had to admit that Mary of Magdalene was NOT named a sinner it was Mary of Bethany. So many people still confuse her and some Christians still do not want to believe the findings.

ALSO the church chose to include Mary of Magdalene as the sinner and harlot because they did not want people to think Jesus was close to any woman be it sexual or not. Fortunate for us there have been texts found of what Mary of Magdalene wrote which are for many more along the lines of which Jesus wanted to teach people. If you look at Mary and some others Jesus wanted others to live together in peace and love, not be goverened by some fictional hateful and spiteful God.
A few things I really like from the Mary texts are the fact he told man not to make rules that he did not give, which churches do constantly to get the money.

I can also discuss the real reason that the water was turned into wine, but if you look at Jewish tradition you will get the idea. Also think about this why would the guards pick through his clothes when he was Crucified if was just some poor man?

And just a few interesting things from Mary's text before I get off my pulpit.
5) Peter said to Mary, Sister we know that the Savior loved you more than the rest of woman.

6) Tell us the words of the Savior which you remember which you know, but we do not, nor have we heard them.

7) Mary answered and said, What is hidden from you I will proclaim to you.

I will end my speel now and just say I will be interested on how many other forgotten or hidden texts come out and take the false churches down.
 
  by: TaraB     07/07/2009 10:22 AM     
  @ Tara  
 
Interesting points... but they have nothing to do with this article. I'm not sure if they too were addressed to me, or just in general, but holla at me on the pm if you really want to discuss this.
 
  by: C.O.G.   07/07/2009 10:44 AM     
  @C.O.G.  
 
I'm interested in your response / rebuttal of my earlier questions / comments if you'd be so kind as to indulge me.

Thanks!
 
  by: StringBlade   07/07/2009 01:01 PM     
  Certainly...  
 
Tell me exactly what you want answered. I'd be glad to.

I thought I answered them all when I said my original point. You can't have "good" without someone to set a standard good. Lemme know what you want explained in further detail!
 
  by: C.O.G.   07/07/2009 01:42 PM     
  @COG  
 
"Havoc- you just further proved my point that there is no such thing as good without a set standard."

bullshit, i did the exact opposite, quit reading whatever you want out of my replies and try some intellectual honesty.

the only "standard" that could be named is a social standards which varies place to place hence as a result IS NOT A STANDARD, not in the sense your trying to push (devine), which would be make moral universal... which they obviously aren't.

Your knowledge of the Bible is horrible, lol, and you keep speaking in ignorance."

and yet on the contrary this atheist knows the bible better than you, sure you probably memorized more vereses, but thats doesn't means anything when you choose to interpret them however is most favorable... the difference is even as a child i wouldn't accept such drivel.

" Just because we (as people of God) have messed up repeatedly, doesn't mean that the Word is bad..."

try reading the WHOLE bible and not just the parts you want... agian try some intellectual honesty.

SOME of the bible is good... namel;y the part plagerized from the egyptian bood of the dead; the ten commandments, and even some of them are bullshit.

" we even fall short of our God's moral standards which points us directly to (drumroll please) JESUS CHRIST and our need for Him."

you might need him... me i'm a strong individual, both in mind and body... i have no need for your "jesus" or your "god", nor your "faith"..

and btw, READ THE BIBLE, if you want to know how horrendous "gods" morals really are...

"But at the end of the day, you can choose to believe what you want."

no see you dont get it, never have, and unless you develope intellectual honesty at some point in your life you certainly never will... the hole point is I DON"T BELIEVE... its always been as simple as that.

" But you know (which has been my point all along), that there is no "good" without a set standard..."

bullshit, i'm living proof your wrong.

" making what the individual said in the article of no sense. My whole point."

LMFAO... again i ask are you illeterate... its a VERY SIMPLE, VERY DIRECT statement... again A CHILD CAN UNDERSTAND IT... so what is your problem?... and believe me the interpretation IS your problem the rest of us understand it just fine... somehow your were caught out of the litteracy loop... at least for that statement which quit frankly can't be said simpler than it was, as i proved trying to summerize it in language you could understand... evidently i failed... but you should really blame the school system... thwey messed you you good , if you can't understand the english used in that quotation.

"You just showed why the Bible says what it says."

because it was a good way to control and manipulate people... you know like yourself who have religions hook still hooked into your cheek reeling you into a cloud of ignorance... and you coudn't be happier about it... thats the sad part.

"The Crusades don't. I'm sorry if you have been killed by a group of angry Christians, but that would bring up a very interesting set of questions if you were........."

that was a "devine" order "handed down" to the pope by "god", in which because the pope said it and because it was "god's will" the moronic christian masses ate it up hook line and sinker. and yes, if somone can convince another to murder others in the name of religion/"god" that person is a moron, no arguement required.

the crusades are a testament to how dangerous religion can be... no good can ever come from forgetting the past... you would forget about slavery, would you forget about terrorism (which is what the crusades where, that and a pillage and plunder campaign).... only a fool forgets the past.

"Isn't this sort of a "sin" in atheism? "

atheism has no sin... its not a syststem of beleif IE, NOT A RELIGION.... i though i told you to look up the meaning of "religion" since you obviously dont understand it.

"What's really going on in that verse, and are Christians commanded to kill gays? Are you sure about this?"

yes... it is... read the bible ... you know thawt book you claim to know so much about but whenever it comes up you just interprete it any way you want , except litterally, becqause that would show chirstianity to be immoral in and of itself.... but then you;d actually have to be illerate to understand the bible and since you can't understand "Being a good person doesn't require God. Don't believe in God? You're not alone. http://www.FreeThoughFlorida.com.", the bible is clearly over your head. both you and half the religious commenters on SN have pointed this out at point point of another.
 
  by: HAVOC666     07/07/2009 02:51 PM     
  @ Havoc  
 
lol.

You're wrong.

You can't have "good" without a set standard of what "good" is, you contradicted yourself here:

"the only "standard" that could be named is a social standards which varies place to place hence as a result IS NOT A STANDARD,"

" "But you know (which has been my point all along), that there is no "good" without a set standard..."

bullshit, i'm living proof your wrong."

You don't even know what you believe. lol. Can you or can you not have a "good" without a good being set?

I mean, you're the same dude that believes it's okay to beat your parents if they were to discipline their child by spanking... how's that for morals?

Until you know where you stand, I can't continue this convo with you, there's no point. Peace buddy.

Btw- You're completely illiterate on Scripture. I understand why though, tell me why you're illiterate based on what the Scripture has to say about you. Better yet, don't.
 
  by: C.O.G.   07/07/2009 03:06 PM     
  @C.O.G.  
 
"You can't have "good" without someone to set a standard good."
Bullshit.
Your Christian 'standard' has changed dramatically over time, and is dramatically different depending on whom you ask. There is no standard.
 
  by: Ec5618   07/07/2009 03:23 PM     
  @COG  
 
"lol.

You're wrong.

You can't have "good" without a set standard of what "good" is, you contradicted yourself here:"

no i didn't re-read it... if you cannot understand it... then you DESPERATELY need lessons in literacy.

so hear it is AGAIN:
"the only "standard" that could be named is a social standards which varies place to place hence as a result IS NOT A STANDARD,"

varying social moral stardard are not a universal moral standards...

again try some intellectual honesty... please, just once.... who know you might just be able to live with being intellectual honest... but, you'll never know if you never try.

"You don't even know what you believe. lol."

on the contrary i know what i beleive in... i just don't have faith... thats a major difference between use the ignorance that is faith is enough for you... its not even close to enough for me... i need proof... solid proof not someone you believe in, not something a bunch of anti-intellectuals wrote 1950 years ago.

"Can you or can you not have a "good" without a good being set?"

yes, SOCIALLY... like parents, school, peers, even strangers, it hase NOTHING to do with "god" or "religion", otherwise i'd have no morals at all.

"I mean, you're the same dude that believes it's okay to beat your parents if they were to discipline their child by spanking... how's that for morals?"

damn right, i beleive even child should defend themselves... hitting kids isn't a moral choice, its an immoral choice usually out of frustration and "justified" by "discipline"... oh i was disciplined as a child... but when i become a teen i become as big as my parents, and they couldn't "displine" me as i would "discipline" them back in kind.. self-defense is a right, even if its from your parents.

"Until you know where you stand, I can't continue this convo with you, there's no point. Peace buddy."

i know exactly where i stand... you just cannot comprehend where i stand, that much is obvious.

"Btw- You're completely illiterate on Scripture. I understand why though, tell me why you're illiterate based on what the Scripture has to say about you. Better yet, don't."

the scripture says i'm a fool... other parts say i should be killed for my non-beleif, and esspecially my critism of religion,.

i know this... i'm far from illiterate on the bible, i just don't believe such childish fairy tale... the difference is intrepret it litterally, you intreprert it however you like to make your religion look good... when the fact is if you interept the bible litterally its actually one of the most morally horrendous books ever written.

try some intellectual honesty, though i know its a novel idea for you.
 
  by: HAVOC666     07/07/2009 03:49 PM     
  and before you anally point it out..  
 
i know its here not hear, didn't catch the typo, but i know you'd love the cheap-shot since you can't formulate an actual areguement.
 
  by: HAVOC666     07/07/2009 03:51 PM     
  and before you anally point it out..  
 
i know its here not hear, didn't catch the typo, but i know you'd love the cheap-shot since you can't formulate an actual arguement.
 
  by: HAVOC666     07/07/2009 03:51 PM     
  @EC  
 
Lol. That was the whole point with my Crusades comment

looks like some people are good at interpreting things the way they want, right?
 
  by: syoware   07/07/2009 03:54 PM     
  @syoware  
 
They are also very good at ignoring your comments and mine. Indeed, C.O.G. seems to focus on 'addressing' the longer, less cogent posts, such as those made by HAVOC666, because they are easier to 'misread' and thus miss the point of.
 
  by: Ec5618   07/07/2009 05:02 PM     
  @ Havoc  
 
I guess you felt that one you had to say it twice. lol

But eh, you result to name-calling and insults because you're confused on where you stand and you can't voice yourself enough to make your confusion sound logical. There's a Scripture dealing with that. Till next time homie... I'm done with our convo.

Ps- Know where you stand.
 
  by: C.O.G.   07/07/2009 05:15 PM     
  @ Syoware  
 
I agree. Kind of like what atheists do to the Bible. They loooooove to point out how they think God is a big meany, but they don't want to acknowledge His undying love... especially for His own. Or how they judge God based on His imperfect people.

Or even better, they say they don't believe in God, but try to use His Word against Him and be angry with Him as if He were real.

He did warn everybody He smites time and time again, see what happens when they don't heed to the warnings. See what happens when he turns them over to their own selves, thoughts, and lusts. Bad situations. Interpret that how you want to.
 
  by: C.O.G.   07/07/2009 05:30 PM     
  @  
 
If being moral means I can go rape/pillage/murder as long as I repent and submit to Christ (think how often this happens in prison) then I don't want any part in your religion

On the other hand, I am a Christian because I believe in Christ. Does that make me moral? No.

I follow values and morality imposed upon modern societies and reinforced by normal behavior. That is what makes me a moral person
 
  by: syoware   07/07/2009 05:55 PM     
  @COG  
 
“Come on with the Crusades bit. That was a lil while ago.”

The last I checked the “Crusades” were still going on in Iraq and Afghanistan under the guise of “War on Terrorism”. And the Christian fundies are pushing real hard to escalate it to Iran. Even in the US hundreds of Muslim were arrested after 9/11 for no other reason than they were Muslim, and held without charges. Sounds like all the makings of holy war to me. Even the nation’s head fundie, Dubya, called this war a Crusade. We have Christian billboards circling this town and even a huge 10 commandments monument, yet I haven’t heard a peep from the local atheist demanding their removal. This is just another glaring example of the intolerance of the Christian community.
 
  by: valkyrie123     07/07/2009 06:03 PM     
  @COG  
 
"I guess you felt that one you had to say it twice. lol"

LOL, what happened is i submitted it but before it sent i fixed the typo on "arguement" and submitted it again, and it sent twice.

"But eh, you result to name-calling and insults"

nmore like genuine observation of such... i just don't sugar coat if because i don't care a rats ass if the truth hurts.

" because you're confused on where you stand and you can't voice yourself enough to make your confusion sound logical."

"There's a Scripture dealing with that."

as i said i know... and its bullshit. i figured this out before my teen years... i'm guessing your a few decades behind.

"Ps- Know where you stand."

just because i don't stand with you, and just because you cannot fathom why i stand where i satnd if you can even understand where i stand in the first place doesn't mean i don't know where i stand...

and no offence... but your nowhere near strong enough an intellectual to caue me to waiver in the least, esspecially being devoid of fact and insight in favor of faith... there's a word for such people... but you think thats name-calling.. which is evidence further that you fit the criteria of such people... can you guess the word?... starts with an "I".

"Till next time homie... I'm done with our convo."

of course, you can't make a valid or even a somewhat logical arguement, are deliberately misreading and/or not comprhending simple english to either fein or prove illiteracy... when of all things question where i stand like a senile old man than can't remember what he read from 30 seconds ago, you know exactly where i said, i've told you many times, you probably still have many such messages in you inbox and at least two or 3 dozen on public thread, so if you incapable of understanding thats YOUR problem not mine, nor anyone else (except maybe "god"...lol)... again intellectual honesty, its really not a hard concept.

like me or hate me, understand me or not, believe me or not, i'm about as honest as they come, often to the point of indifference to people's feelings, and even more-so in the case of intellectual honesty, no idea, concept, beleif, faith or fact is sacred to me, all is subject to scrutiny, including people themselves.

perhap you may want to switch your focus to EC5618 since he's addressed you twice without response, and since you're obviously having no luck causing waiver or doubt of my stance in me, nor are you any clossr to understanding or even attempting to understand my position and so in turn try to make me doubt my position since your incapable of reinforcing your orignal claim that morals are a standard; are devine and hence absolute... when even a glance at the world today shows us thats a fallacy.

though i doubt EC5618 will "humor" you as much as i have.
 
  by: HAVOC666     07/07/2009 06:03 PM     
  .  
 
the actual link is:
http://www.freethoughtflorida.com/...

you dropped a 't' in 'thought'
 
  by: FreakKeeper     07/07/2009 06:10 PM     
  @COG  
 
"Are you sure that people in Hollywood don't claim a religion?"

Are you sure you don't want to address the actual point of my comment, which was that religious billboards are extremely common and people, in fact, are "havin that?"

Spare me the diversions.
 
  by: MomentOfClarity     07/07/2009 06:35 PM     
  These idiots upset me  
 
... I demand they be forced to shut up.
 
  by: Ben_Reilly     07/07/2009 06:42 PM     
  @  
 
Syoware- I'm sorry that's your impression on Christians. Being a Christian is about more than saying you're a Christian. You know a tree by it's fruit. If I truly believe in Jesus, I will try my best to emulate Him (this shows I'm truly redeemed).

Val- War On Terror = Crusades... Understood! Do you see me complaining about the Billboards? Nah, as I stated time and time before, I believe people should have the right to choose their own path. If they want to put up atheist signs, let em do it. I'm not worried about no daggone signs. I live the life that I want to reflect. The weapons of my warfare aren't carnal. I do my best as an imperfect man to represent Christ. And I won't stop, can't stop, like diddy.

MOC- I'll be truthful. I'm lost. Atheist often complain about Christian Billboards, the 10 Commandments being posted in public view, etc. etc. I addressed your point that people in Hollywood do follow religion. So much for diversions.

Also, it's been shown a lot on this site alone... "Don't shove your religion down my throat", "All you talk about is God, shutup", etc. So, I hope that answers your thought.

Havoc- Sorry bruh, but truthfully speaking, your words do nothing to me. lol. Your "truth" does not hurt me. At the end of the day, God's still my YHWH Nissi. Also, I can't make you change... nor is it my intention to. You addressed me first. I simply conversed with you. It's been a blast as always.

Till next time people. It's been real... C.O.G. signing out! Peace and hair grease!

Let the @ COG's roll. God bless!

 
  by: C.O.G.   07/07/2009 11:23 PM     
  by the way  
 
One of the cool things about God is that he gives us a free will choice. Problem is that in the end He is God and those that believe will be with him and those that don't won't. Where will my eternity be?
 
  by: don't beleive   07/08/2009 12:08 AM     
  @don't believe  
 
"Where will my eternity be?"
Considering that you're blaspheming against most gods, you're hardly in a position to gloat over your salvation.
 
  by: Ec5618   07/08/2009 12:23 AM     
  @COG  
 
Lost? Let me update you. Contrary to your assertion, Christian billboards are widespread and common, and rarely is a peep heard (unless maybe they show dead babies). Don't try to pin this on hypothetical atheists - the real ones just put up a billboard, some of your people made fools of themselves over it, and you look a little silly griping about atheists in light of that.
 
  by: MomentOfClarity     07/08/2009 12:38 AM     
  a real moment  
 
blasphemy, other gods, not believing in the only begotton son, Jesus Christ is the only unforgivable sin. But to each his own. Gloating, not really, bragging yes, on the one true God and Father and his son Jesus Christ the risen Lord.
 
  by: don't beleive   07/08/2009 03:16 AM     
  @dont  
 
Luke 14:11
For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.

Philippians 2:3
Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves.
 
  by: syoware   07/08/2009 04:31 AM     
  oh and  
 
The title of the summary leads me to believe that the athiest billboard demands florida residents be removed

and athiest is misspelled
 
  by: syoware   07/08/2009 04:37 AM     
  Here is a verse 4 u  
 
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Heaven or hell, life or death we all get to chose for ourselves. Jesus paid the price for all to have eternal if we choose him.
 
  by: don't beleive   07/08/2009 05:54 AM     
  @syo  
 
Atheism really is correct.
 
  by: caution2     07/08/2009 10:46 AM     
  @caution  
 
You know, you're right. I'm sorry man. Its just such a strange looking word so I assumed and... made an ass out of just me
 
  by: syoware   07/08/2009 01:51 PM     
  Kill them all!  
 
Let man-made invisible impotent deity sort the bodies.

Was there a god before there was man?
If so, where the hell did he/she/it come from?
 
  by: White Albino   07/13/2009 10:27 AM     
  Christianity  
 
May I remind everyone that christ was jewish. For the person that said they are in christ and try to emulate him thaen you are a jewish person not a christian for christ did not say hey build a religeon around me, he simply allowed the sheeples to do so. Enough with the crusades, ok, how about something more recent, the christian church backed hitler in gassing the jews all the way up to the point where they saw that he might become more powerful them, then they ditched him. the christian church is still waging wars against religeons that they dont like. especially the muslims and jews. morality is quite simple even the hippies from the sixties were able to grasp most of it. dont harm others, thats it the rest is conjecture, abortion? an option whether you like the idea or not. courts decided the rest. imposed law. will we ever really know if or when a fetus becomes concious, doubtful. a dog reacts to stimuli but the bible says it is just an animal. does it have a soul, will we ever know. do we have souls, not medically. be kind to people, dont hurt them. if you are having a bad day do not yell at the other person for playing their music loud, it´s your bad day not theirs. religion is a way to control the populace. did god give me parkinsons disease and seizures? i would hate to believe that any god would be so evil. no i developed these diseases just because. any god that would allow or bring such devistating ailments to his/her/it´s people is no god at all

[ edited by cyphercrash ]
 
  by: cyphercrash   10/13/2010 11:45 PM     
  cypher  
 
"no i developed these diseases just because. "
?
They had to come from somewhere. Seems to me that if god is the source of everything then that would also include diseases and things like earthquakes, survival of the fittest, a dying sun etc etc..

And why wouldn´t a god remove them?

I´m tempted to use that Edmund Burke quote about good men doing nothing to prevent evil...
 
  by: Kaleid   10/13/2010 11:53 PM     
  @don´t beleive  
 
What do you mean to infer by that? That you are on the same or similar level as your God and that you have the right to cast judgment upon your fellow man from a status above that of a follower of the good word? Perhaps you´d like to take a look at that commandment about not worshiping false idols, and stop worshiping yourself.
 
  by: velger   10/14/2010 12:52 AM     
  @velger  
 
"What do you mean to infer by that? That you are on the same or similar level as your God and that you have the right to cast judgment upon your fellow man from a status above that of a follower of the good word?"

No. Does your disbelief in faeries make you a faerie?

"Perhaps you´d like to take a look at that commandment about not worshiping false idols, and stop worshiping yourself."

Meaningless drivel.
 
  by: Ec5618   10/14/2010 10:18 AM     
  @syoware  
 
If I were a billboard in Florida, I´d probably also want the residents removed... seeing how much of a fuss they are making over a single, non-threatening billboard.
 
  by: opinionated   10/14/2010 03:59 PM     
  Just suppose...  
 
There is a God, and he does not believe in himself. Where does that leave all the sign-fearing non-atheists in Florida?

Out in the cold, buck naked, would be a good start. Give them something to do with their hands.

[ edited by White Albino ]
 
  by: White Albino   10/14/2010 04:06 PM     
 
 
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