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08/20/2009 02:06 AM ID: 80290 Permalink   

Clunkers Program Possibly Failing

 

In New York City the Greater New York Automobile Dealers Association has said about half of its 425 members have withdrawn from the government's cash for clunkers program because they are not getting repaid from the federal government.

Dealers can no longer afford to give the rebates. "(The government) needs to move the system forward and they need to start paying these dealers. This is a cash-dependent business," said the group's president, Mark Schienberg.

While dealers are seeing great floor traffic, only about 2% of all the cars sold have gotten the rebates back from the government. According to the DOT, auto dealers have made deals worth $1.81 billion, which is about 435,102 new car sales.

 
  Source: www.breitbart.com  
    WebReporter: willyshawker Show Calling Card      
  Recommendation:  
ASSESS this news: BLOCK this news. Reason:
   
  54 Comments
  
  any better  
 
on the submission?

I know the news source goes to the right these are facts.

Another example of a government program not being run correctly. When you do things like this you must be ready have all the pieces and people in place and work in a timly manner all of which hasn't been done with this program.

I think alot of dealers will get hurt on the bottom line becuase of this program. It was a good idea but with government running it, it's been a nightmare for dealers.

I compare this program to a special KFC was running a few months back. A free meal coupon which they didn't plan correctly for and w/in days they had to suspend the free meal.

This is why we shouldn't hurry into reform take our time if it takes an extra 6 months it does but lets get it right and cover all the bases becuase once again the government has shown incompitence
 
  by: willyshawker     08/20/2009 02:16 AM     
  noticed  
 
I spent deal del
 
  by: willyshawker     08/20/2009 02:46 AM     
  I see  
 
so far none of the deep liberals have commented on this yet.

Could it be some of them know they can't argue with the point that the program wasn't planned out correctly and rushed and it is now being run incompently?

 
  by: willyshawker     08/20/2009 03:23 AM     
  Thought I read  
 
that the government was going to triple the number of people handling these claims so that they're processed faster ... http://www.nytimes.com/...

Also, GM hired back some of its workers and added overtime, so I'd say that all in all, Cash for Clunkers has perhaps gone slightly better than, say, the war in Iraq, as far as government programs go.
 
  by: Ben_Reilly     08/20/2009 03:26 AM     
  @Ben  
 
no doubt better than Iraq even though I never even mentioned that? I thought it was bad going there but nothing can be done now can it?

It was a good idea to. I dont agree with destroying all the cars but hey can't agree on everything can we.

Just saying it wasn't though out correctly. The program should not only have 2 percent of claims done it should be around 60 percent done.

If planned for properly it wouldn't be like this now. Thats my point for healthcare reform lets take our time and have everything right so we don't experince big technical difficulties.

Thats the problem with government programs they are rushed and not planned for properly and you end up in circumstances like this which shows pure incompetence. Just like a fast food resturant a few months back
 
  by: willyshawker     08/20/2009 03:38 AM     
  also at Ben  
 
I find it strange you have to bring in a previous adminstrations faults everytime something the current one does something half assed.

Get over it crappy Bush is gone time to own up. They didnt prepare correctly and now its hurting an industry it was supposed to help
 
  by: willyshawker     08/20/2009 03:40 AM     
  @willy  
 
Here's why we don't need to just "take our time" on health care reform. Though it doesn't affect me, I find this information quite disturbing:

* More than 60 percent of the 1.5 million bankruptcies declared every year by Americans are caused by an inability to pay their health care bills (http://www.cnn.com/...

* Health care is projected to become more than 70 percent more expensive over the next decade if nothing is done (http://www.americanprogress.org/...

* Every day, 14,000 Americans lose their health coverage (http://www.americanprogressaction.org/...
 
  by: Ben_Reilly     08/20/2009 03:48 AM     
  Its Par  
 
They can't run a trade in program, could you imagine what these idiots would do with a health care system?

 
  by: Hellblazer     08/20/2009 03:56 AM     
  sorry ben  
 
those sources are clearly bias.
 
  by: cray0la     08/20/2009 03:56 AM     
  Ben  
 
I'm not talking a decade but not just 6 months maybe 1 yr or 2 tops.

Those numbers are staggering I agree but we MUST GET IT RIGHT. WE MUST work out every problem that could happen.

We can't go in half assed if we do it could end up hurting not helping thats all.

IMHO its just not logical to push this through in 6 months. If we do it will end up like this program good idea gone bad and must be fixed because we weren't ready

See what I'm saying
 
  by: willyshawker     08/20/2009 03:59 AM     
  oh and even  
 
if they WERENT bias, how many of those "14,000" lose their healthcare BY CHOICE?

all you quoted doesnt mean the government has to step in and RUN the system, get a grip man, everything the government runs FAILS,i mean they cant even run the CARS program, it was bankrupt in WEEKS TIME and you expect them to run some BS sloppy written healthcare reform bill through into law really quick and take over everything efficiently?

its funny how you never seem to dis agree with anything that obama and the democrats put forth no matter how bad it is and just put blame on bush.

thats while support for the democrats is falling like a brick, kinda like obamas approval rating.
 
  by: cray0la     08/20/2009 04:00 AM     
  @crayola  
 
LOL

QUOTE:its funny how you never seem to dis agree with anything that obama and the democrats put forth no matter how bad it is and just put blame on bush.

That's because he and Susan Roesgen and the rest of the Liberal Democrats all think and act the same way. Someone posted this link for Ben in comparison to himself. I think it fits his personality to a Tee.
http://www.youtube.com/...
 
  by: Hellblazer     08/20/2009 04:22 AM     
  @cray0la, HB  
 
In case you missed it -- and apparently, you have! -- the proposal is not for the government to take over health care. Stop saying everything Glenn Beck tells you to say, who in turn says everything the insurance industries tell him to say.

And I just got done explaining how I spent all my time off the other day calling Democrats in Congress and telling them that I would donate money to their Republican opponents if they don't fight for meaningful health care reform.

But continue to run your mouths about things you don't know. It's infinitely amusing!
 
  by: Ben_Reilly     08/20/2009 04:33 AM     
  @Ben  
 
Do you agree we must get it right before we can pass anything.

Do you agree we can't do this half assed like we did for clunkers?
 
  by: willyshawker     08/20/2009 04:46 AM     
  @willy  
 
I do think we should make sure we're backing a good bill. I think that looking at non-partisan groups for their take on the bill is a great way for everyday Joes and Jills like us to find out whether we support this 1,000-page bill that nobody really feels like reading.

I also think it's great that people like yourself are bringing some conservative skepticism to this issue. I just have to point out, though, that Republicans in Congress do not look at this issue as a debate on health care reform. They see it as a way to destroy Obama's presidency, and they've been clear about that from pretty early on in the debate.

I just posted this in another thread, but it bears repeating:

'On Friday, on a "Conservatives for Patients Rights" conference call with conservative activists dealing with health care reform, Sen. Jim DeMint, R-S.C., said, as Ben Smith at Politico reported, "If we're able to stop Obama on this, it will be his Waterloo. It will break him."'

http://blogs.abcnews.com/...
 
  by: Ben_Reilly     08/20/2009 04:50 AM     
  @Ben_Reilly  
 
In case you missed it -- and apparently, you have! -- the proposal is not for the government to take over health care.

You are so blind sided it is sickening, Once their foot is in the door it is only a matter of time before it gets molded into the single player system Obama has wet dreams over. Ever since it became clear that, of the ways to reform health care, moving to a "single payer" system was untenable, liberals fell back to the next best BS plan. Unfortunately for this administration there are many who see it for what it is. Obama like you has a need to get their own way or throw a temper tantrum until they do, Obama won't rest until he has his way or gets voted out. Rule of life, One thing leads to another.
 
  by: Hellblazer     08/20/2009 04:58 AM     
  @Conservatives  
 
Why do you guys treat Obama like he's a freaking Captain Planet super villain? His goal is not to "ruin the country," he simply has a different belief structure on how to handle the economy. He is not trying to destroy our economy, he is simply trying to improve it through his own way. Disagreeing with this is fine, so long as you are capable of doing it in a decent way. Argue his points and for those of you who are arguing points, on SN so far I think I can limit that group to "BB," terrific, keep it up, any debate needs all sides of the argument, for those of you that just enjoy shouting "socialism" this and "take-over" that, honestly, it doesn't help anyone, at all and will never ever contribute anything to any argument. Try using actual points.

And Cray0la, Ben's sources may be allegedly "bias," but at least his sources exist.
 
  by: Kolman   08/20/2009 05:19 AM     
  Clunkers Program possibly  
 
A resounding success.
 
  by: ichi     08/20/2009 05:24 AM     
  Jumping In  
 
"14,000" lose their healthcare BY CHOICE?

Say What Crazola? I call bullshit and I want to see a site that is not biased by either side that says this. That means no FOX or any of its pundits or Murdoch owned Rag. That also means no MSNBC. And as for CNN being left well they really are about the only middle there is. But either way show me PROOF that 14,000 Americans willingly give up having affordable health care coverage and for reason they would do that?

I am for health care reform but I want a reasonable, sensible and fair bill passed. That means that the Republicans must stop all the fear mongering and propaganda about death bills.

Even my Right wing father doesn't buy that bullshit and is in favor of something that will be able to give care to all. And he already has to deal with the mess of the VA and Medicare.

Get the Republicans to come up with a realistic bill that isn't full of scare tactics and present it to the Democrats who can have a realistic bill. Then they can both sit their asses down without taking vacation after vacation and work 5 days a week if not more and get something done that will benefit every single legal documented US Citizen.

Blue Cross Blue Shield just was given the ok by the assholes that run Michigan to raise it rates 22% when they wanted to raise the rates up to 54% that is NOT acceptable and shouldn't be by anyone in any party.
Here is the link to a non biased page http://www.mlive.com/...

It is time to put up or shut up damnit.

REALISTIC ideas and STOP letting the insurance companies continue to raise their rates so no one can afford them.
So as I have said before either speak up with something realistic or shut up and deal with those that can.
 
  by: TaraB     08/20/2009 05:31 AM     
  @kolman  
 
I think I can be added to that list
 
  by: willyshawker     08/20/2009 05:35 AM     
  @Willy  
 
Sorry, the bureaucratic process for adding names to the list is backed up for approximately three months. You know, government and stuff.
 
  by: Kolman   08/20/2009 05:36 AM     
  @kolman  
 
lol good one
 
  by: willyshawker     08/20/2009 05:40 AM     
  @Professor Ben_Reilly  
 
But continue to run your mouth about things you don't know. It's infinitely amusing!

It sure is. I told you before. You are most entertaining.

QUOTE:I would donate money to their Republican opponents if they don't fight for meaningful health care reform.

*LOL* Well Ben it appears they couldn't give a rats ass about you or your donations because they are still rushing this BS bill trying to get it passed in a hurry. Half of them didn't read it. Yet they go to town hall meetings and try to sell it to the people. Of course they don't care they are not effected by it.

Ben I am worried, how are you going to spend your time when people realize you don't know anymore then a flower does about whats going on?
As you were asked before elsewhere and you failed to answer,I will repeat! Until they can sit down and come up with a solution that works, would you agree it would be a better solution to leave the health care system we have in tact? Wouldn't that make more sense then defending why we need to rush this along with posts like(60% bankruptcies caused by health care). You said you called the Dems and threaten your donations to go to the Rep if they don't fight for a meaningful health care reform yet you defend rushing it through. Well Ben you really need to take a stand one way or another. Did they present a meaningful bill or not?
I agree we need a major reform but the fact is we know what we have, and with all this propaganda reporting,there is a majority of people that realize , WE DO NOT KNOW and by no means
(you don't either) what we are getting. We are number 37 on the health care ratings of the world. That is not a bad postion to hold onto until they can show us how we can become number one.

You appear to be sold just because Obama said so. As Crayloa stated," its funny how you never seem to dis agree with anything that obama and the democrats put forth no matter how bad it is"
I beg a difference with him though. I don't think it's funny I think it is sickening.
 
  by: Hellblazer     08/20/2009 05:44 AM     
  They can't keep up with printing the new money!  
 
n/t
 
  by: FreeMyMind   08/20/2009 06:10 AM     
  @Wile E. Hellblazer -- *Super* Genius  
 
I've answered practically every question you've offered so far. Read back through my posts. I do believe we need to back a good bill -- I do believe it *is* a good bill, because I've gone to several non-partisan sites that discuss it. Here, I'll find a few for you. Maybe then you'll have something besides screaming to occupy your time for a while:

http://factcheck.org/...

http://politifact.org/...

(that last one has tons of articles about health care -- it's a very good source.)
 
  by: Ben_Reilly     08/20/2009 06:11 AM     
  @Hellblazer  
 
What exactly IS wrong with the bill? For as much as you claim to know, all you've really offered up is that you KNOW it's part of a liberal conspiracy to take over healthcare and that you KNOW it won't work. And though Ben and others have already pointed out that the course you suggest we stay is heading for the rocks, you still suggest keep it anyway because it's all we've got? No, you'll have to do better than, "We don't know, so we can't change anything," because no one knows what'll work until it's been done - a lesson we paid the last administration to teach us.
 
  by: MomentOfClarity     08/20/2009 07:42 AM     
  I hope the people with clunkers  
 
have enough money to get a new car. Seriously if they are working somewhere and get laid off they won't be able to make car payments and they'll lose their new car and wish they still had their clunker.
 
  by: ohioankev   08/20/2009 09:44 PM     
  well  
 
the government is shutting it down next Monday EPIC FAIL
 
  by: willyshawker     08/20/2009 11:16 PM     
  @willy  
 
They're bringing it to a close, yes, but it's helped a lot of auto dealers -- they *will* get paid -- and it's helped raise the overall fuel economy of the American fleet a great deal. It's stimulated enough demand for GM to be able to bring back some of its laid off workers and added to the sales of every major American auto manufacturer.

In short, I can't see how you could possibly look at what the program has done objectively and still call it an EPIC FAIL (such a juvenile term; can't we talk like adults?). Unless you expected cash for clunkers to cure ED or something, I think it's done a pretty good job.
 
  by: ben_reilly     08/21/2009 12:21 AM     
  Also @willy  
 
Sorry, I missed your earlier comment in which you asked how long I'm going to blame Bush for things. Well, if Republicans can blame Bill Clinton for an economic recession that began seven years after he left office, I figure I can safely go on blaming Bush for stuff until, oh, 2016 or so.

I have to say, though, I am quite biased. Of the two presidents America has had this year, Obama is by far my favorite.
 
  by: ben_reilly     08/21/2009 01:37 AM     
  @Ben  
 
I call it Epic Fail becuase it wasnt planned for properly. Dont kid yourself the dealers wont get all of there money and will end up taking losses.

If I end up being wrong I'll admit it. Will you? No you will just make another excuse. You can never admit any type of wrong by this administration.

Yes it has helped I have admitted that, I have admitted it was a good program, but you have yet to admit that it was NOT properly planned for and now we have a big mess on our hands.

Lack of planning on the government has caused this good program to be left in the gutter. This was supposed to last until Novemeber but now it won't even last to Labor Day.

Ben screw that, thats just an excuse you do it becuase people still blame Clinton, just like I would tell them GROW UP for real. The childish crap by you and the liberals and the GOP is getting old real F'n quick
 
  by: willyshawker     08/21/2009 02:09 AM     
  @ben_reilly  
 
Clinton is very responsible for this mess. Hell you can see parts of this mess that Nixon helped to start. Clinton, Bush, and now Obama all share part of the messes creation and enlargement. Clinton's admin (treasury sec.) backed repealing Glass-Stegal which helped create the credit bubble. Not to mention the people that Clinton and Bush put in charge of the FED have severely damaged this nation. The FED's tactic of keeping interest rates artificially low essentially helped create a massive housing bubble and also contributed to the credit crisis...

Obama is just spending money like crazy too... This problem is not a democrat or republican problem but rather a problem with both parties. They are both bipartisanly screwing our brains out and like the good sadomasocists that we are, we gladly ask for more punishment by reelecting the same fools over and over.

They may have a black face or a texas twang but they are all the same. They may differ slightly on which crowd of elites they choose to help out the most but they both have the same view towards the masses. That view is one of disgust. We are treated like serfs by the elites. We are nothing more to them than pawns.

I choose not to vote for either party since I know both will equally screw me. They are both representative of big business. The only difference there is that Democrats are friends of Banks/Wall Street and Republicans are friends of Energy and the Military...

What do any of those have to do with helping the people? Absolutely nothing! Their combined destruction of this nation has turned me into a political atheist.
 
  by: slavefortheman     08/21/2009 02:09 AM     
  @Slave  
 
but Ben will never ever admit that our problems stem from both sides. Only the republicans are at fault. No blame for the democrats they are perfect and know best.

The democrats are the almighty God they will save me. Is Ben's stance and thats why we are at this point. People like Ben not holding his side accountable just blame the other guy. It all their fault.

By the way goes both ways
 
  by: willyshawker     08/21/2009 02:21 AM     
  @willy  
 
Just keep yelling, OK! I'm sure it will help *something*.
 
  by: Ben_Reilly     08/21/2009 03:00 AM     
  Ben  
 
I'm not yelling at all. Never even raised my voice as I was typing.

Just calling you out that you can never admit your side is wrong ever
 
  by: willyshawker     08/21/2009 03:20 AM     
  @slave  
 
Bush had a good five-year warning that a crisis was coming that he did not heed -- http://www.msnbc.msn.com/...


Willy, stop getting so emotional, OK? You know I don't support everything the Democrats do. Actually, it's more that I don't support what the Democrats *don't* do -- like not impeaching Bush, not investigating torture, etc. ...
 
  by: ben_reilly     08/21/2009 07:16 AM     
  Also @slave  
 
There's just one more thing and then I'll let this go for a while.

You mention that Bush spent a lot of money, which is true, and that Obama has spent a lot of money, which is also true.

But there the comparison ends. Bush was content to spend that money when during a time that was, relative to now, a golden period of economic prosperity by entering us into a war that wasn't necessary.

It seems that far too many people who complain about Obama's stimulus bill and other spending tend to forget or neglect the fact that Obama is trying to do what so many other leaders facing economic depression have tried to do -- to jump-start the economy with government spending. All objective historical evidence suggests this works, after all.

In other words, Obama has been responding to what we all recognize as a dangerous economic climate. On the other hand, what possible excuse could we accept for Bush's spending?
 
  by: ben_reilly     08/21/2009 07:34 AM     
  Politicians running the health care system  
 
They only open their mouths to change feet.
 
  by: White Albino   08/21/2009 07:12 PM     
  Haha just like in Germany!  
 
The "cash for clunkers" was "invented" in germany, the US-Version is a copy of Merkes initiative, and just like in germany it is failing in the US. Exact same problem, the government said it would pay but the dealers are still waiting!
 
  by: evilrat   08/22/2009 04:45 PM     
  @ Ben and others  
 
I would like to here your opinion on this.

Today in my local paper which is very left leaning there was an article on this program and this liberal brought up a good point.

The program while a good idea will ultimately fail because when it is over car sales will be lower or be the same like before the program started. In order for it to be sucessful it has to continue on and taxpayers will not want that to happen

Whats your take on that like I said it came from another liberal and he has a point yes it stimulated the car industry but if the industry goes back to the same levels before a place like GM who just hired those workers back will have to lay them back off correct?

After reading this piece IMO all this was is a short term fix thats only going to last 3 months then its back to normal.

Your take?
 
  by: willyshawker     08/22/2009 06:47 PM     
  also  
 
Like I said I think the program was a great idea it just wasn't planned for correctly, but after reading what this liberal (yes I keep pointing that out) maybe it wasn't such a good thing.

IF GM is going to have to lay those people back off becuase car sales are going to go where they where b4 clunkers program its a mute point. I'm tired of quick fixes more of the same just like McCain would have been
 
  by: willyshawker     08/22/2009 06:57 PM     
  @willy  
 
In order for anything to fail, you have to define what success is and what failure is. If I was in a war, shooting someone in the head would be success. If I was trying to shoot an apple off someone's head, shooting someone in the head would be a failure.

The CARS program was never intended to provide anything more than a shot of adrenalin to the economy. It was not meant to single-handedly fix the economy, nor was it meant to be a permanent program -- the expense would be enormous if it was.

Yes, there has been a hiccup in government reimbursements for these automobiles. Yes, DOT has tripled the size of the workforce devoted to processing payments. But let's not start pretending as though auto dealers are accustomed to getting a whole lot of money as soon as they sell a vehicle, because most people don't pay $3,500 to $4,500 of the price upfront when they buy a new car.

And your liberal friend is wrong. If I were to go on a three billion dollar shopping spree, do you think that money just spontaneously burns up once I've spent it? No, of course not -- it keeps circulating throughout the economy, helping people hire new employees or buy groceries or whatever. As a component of the stimulus plan, it can help get the economy working again.

A healthy economy is an active economy. Economic activity is the buying and selling of goods and services. The CARS program emptied car lots as people went out to buy in droves. It was a success.
 
  by: Ben_Reilly     08/22/2009 07:20 PM     
  @willyshawker  
 
the idea was to jump start the economy not keep in on life support.

the increase in autosales got alot of industries back to work... not just the manufactures and dealers, but also the companies than produce the resources needed for that. which in turn *should* get more people spending on other things as well (however more people are *trying* to save now more than ever which is delaying an economic turn around due to lack of confidence in the economy; and justtly so), which *should* also in turn get people in unrelated jobs back to work as more people will slowly start getting more money to spend.

in my opinion the cash for clunkers wasn't an epic failure but an epic success, in that it FAR exceeded what was actually designed to do, and should be extended to 10 times or more of the funding it originally had, after it revamped the low end of america automobile fleet people will be litterally saving hundreds of dollars per year which again in turn will be benificial to the economy as thats a few hundred dollars per person (or per household) per year that can pe spent on other sectors of the economy other than the energy industries (namley oil) which are always bursting at the seams with profits... this will basically be in affect re-allocating money from energy industries (via increased fuel economy) to other sectors of the economy (of just give people a few hundred dollars more in savings per year which will in turn eventually pour back into the economy, via buying a new car, new house, new computer, increased energy efficency like a new furnance or solar panel (which would again in turn have much the same effect by saving people money on energy)... or whatever

the problem with the economy is the fact that its based on a fiat currency which is entirely dependanct on confidence and cirrculation, both of which are at a low point in history (esspecially evidenced in the wealth gap).
 
  by: HAVOC666     08/22/2009 07:23 PM     
  @Ben and Havoc  
 
Was just getting your guys viewpoint on what that columnist said.

I agree that the program was a success but the paper work part the beaurocracy part was pure failure and incompetence. The government wasnt prepared for the success of the program and in that aspect it was a epic failure. The program itself was a sucess like you said havoc
 
  by: willyshawker     08/22/2009 10:08 PM     
  forgot to add  
 
the only thing I dont like is the destruction of the clunkers. Good parts and cars are going to be wasted.

Some of these clunkers are as new as 2004 models alot of life left on these cars that could be donated to the underprivledged and such
 
  by: willyshawker     08/22/2009 10:09 PM     
  Don't necessarily agree with Cash for Clunk  
 
It's free meal for dealers.
People will complain about anything, in this case the free meal isn't being served fast enough.

Could have went without the program, but right wing nut jobs complain about the ass backwards things... like health care death panels.

Deficit, Deficit & Deficit!

Republicans didn't care about it, Obama doesn't seem too, maybe it's up to us to start.
 
  by: ukcn001XYZ   08/23/2009 07:34 AM     
  @willyshawker  
 
Haha, welcome to the club. The same club as Crayzola, that is.

This is what you've done in countless posts. You set yourself up to look like a middle-of-the-road guy, then as soon as liberals start talking you completely lose it and show your own biased.

The mere fact that you put the word "Possibly" in the title would suggest a bias. Since that word is very often associated with an opinion.

The Clunkers program is working well for the people it really needs to help: the American people.

The giant dealers will get their money, and in the meantime can wait.

Really funny to see you slowly back down to agreeing with the same liberals you called out in the initial posts.

"I agree that the program was a success"

-np-
 
  by: NicPre     08/23/2009 03:18 PM     
  nicpre  
 
I put Possibly in the title becuase the article I read was going on that ssumption no bias from me.

I have always said the program was a good idea and yes I have said its a sucess many times before. Now I still stand by its a failure in terms of how it was dealth w/paper work wise, a very incompetent set up by our government. I also have said and stand by, I dont think we should destroy the cars becuase they can still be put to good use as either parts or cars for underprivledged familys.

I have conservative values always have so of course I'm going to spew off when the liberals say something I dont agree with you guys do that as well its just human nature but I am currently not affiliated w/any group or party due to the fact I feel 99 percent of them are crooks,liars and hypocrites and have no intrest in helping the American people and only want to fill their pockets.

I believe in God, I believe in small government, Even though I believe in God and the Bible I think homosexuals should be able to marry as far as I'm concerned its thier right if the church don't agree with it then dont marry them in the church but to the government they should be allowed to get married. Abortion I dont agree with it but I believe in a choice I think you should have to go through a session of counseling and see an unltra sound b4 you do it but you should still have the choice. I believe in the Constitution something 99 percent of the government especially liberal but all of them in general have spit on.

So I have a mix of both sides believes in me. I'm neutral, I want a President who will do good for the country and I dont care if he is black,white,orange,blue,purple,asian whatever dont matter to me as long as they do a good job. I dont agree with everything Obama has done but I repsect him and am willing to give him more of a shot then 8 months something conservatives and republicans can not. We had 8 years of clowns in before w/no issues and now afyer 8 month crucify Obama is ridiculous.

I believe we need healthcare reform just like you do but w/my believe in small government I dont want them to have anyhting to do with it.

I hated them doing the stimulus both Bush and Obama, i hated giving GM and Chysler money should have made them file bankruptcy or fail becuase we ended up losing money.

Like I said I'm neutral. I want the best for America. I can admit when I'm wrong though or when someone is wrong nad I can't stand thatg Liberals like you can't do the same. Obama could go rob a bank right now and you would say it was ok. Obama could torture a person on live TV and you guys would make an excuse and all of the sudden change your position and say it was ok.

I don't like that fact aboout liberals or republicans if your man F's up own up dont make excuses or change the subject is my message.

I'll say it again. Change what Change more of the same like McCain and Bush and it will be the same until America wakes up and make our leaders be accountable to us and stop making excuses for them. They have effectively accomplished thier mission of dividing America.

We are no longer Americans we are either democrats or republicans or indepentents letting the politicans running things like they see fit. Instead of running things we as Americans see fit.

When I hear someone say Fellow Americans I kinda just laugh now becuase we aren't fellow Americans anymore we are now puppets and if you dont agree with the other side you are demonised by that side.

Our forefathers would shake thier heads in disgust right now and probably regret forming the United States or better put The Divided States of America
 
  by: willyshawker     08/23/2009 04:12 PM     
  also nicpre  
 
If you read other comments I gave you an article by one of your fellow liberals basically calling the program a failure if it does not continue and he brought up valid points.

I understand why GM hired those workers back but if car sales go back to pre clunkers numbers they will have to lay these people back off and we will be right back where we started.

While this was meant to be a quick fix. How good was the fix? It succeded in what it needed to do but it remains to be seen what it will do from here on out.

Will it lower the demand for news cars since people bought in droves?

Will it bring sales back to pre clunker levels?

Will it still help increase sales?
 
  by: willyshawker     08/23/2009 04:19 PM     
  @bEN  
 
I missed this you said it empyied car lots. Your exaclty right.

My mom works at Toyota of Glen Burnie and they only have 12 new cars left on the lot. They had to suspend it last night. They had to turn people away becuase they didnt have the cars anymore
 
  by: willyshawker     08/23/2009 04:20 PM     
  @willyshawker  
 
liberal... what liberal?

when has a liberal potician ever had power?... even in canada our "liberal party" isn't liberal, they're pro-corporation just like the PC; just slightly less... but being slightly less corrupt doesn't make them a liberal politican, not does being a memeber of the liberal party; which the name is nothing more than a gimmick.

its republican and democrat... and if you want to be technically they are BOTHright wing politcal parties... the democrats are just slightly closer to the center, but in the end in term of curruption they are virtually identical, and are actually working together and simply giving the illusion on conflict...

and more-over politicans who are ACTUALLY in conflict with this and/or speak out against it are typically osterized and ignored like ron paul or jesse ventura.
 
  by: HAVOC666     08/23/2009 05:07 PM     
  Havoc  
 
Got to agree they are all corrupt and run by corporations
 
  by: willyshawker     08/23/2009 05:17 PM     
  also Havoc  
 
you see it here on this site people being osterized becuase they stand up against it
 
  by: willyshawker     08/23/2009 05:19 PM     
  I want to be osterized  
 
Any female volunteers in here?
 
  by: White Albino   08/23/2009 07:38 PM     
 
 
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