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09/24/2009 11:11 PM ID: 80846 Permalink   

U.S. Health Care Reform Mainly Opposed by Rich Old White Men


The most staunch opponents of health care reform turn out to be men, people who earn $75,000 a year or more, white people and seniors age 65 or older, according to a new Gallup poll. The young, poor, women and black people are its biggest supporters.

Women would advise their Congressional representative to vote in favor of health care reform by a 40-33 percent margin (28 percent unsure), whereas men oppose reform 33-44 percent (23 percent unsure). Blacks favor the measure 65-9.

People in the East mostly support health care reform, 43-35 (23), while people from the South are the most opposed, 34-40 (26). Non-white people as a whole favor health care reform 50-20 (29), while whites oppose it 31-45 (23).

    WebReporter: Ben_Reilly Show Calling Card      
ASSESS this news: BLOCK this news. Reason:
young support it becuase unlike our elders and previous generations they don't want to have to fend for themselves and work towards something they want a free ride.

I might sound racist for this statement but I'm not so I dont care, the black sterotype and the way alot of blacks are they think they are entitled to have everything given to them, which actually most of America acts like now.

The poor- common sense of course they want it they dont have the money for health insurance.

I'm actually more for it now than against it you know why, becuase the government is going to do what they want anyway so I'm just going to sit back and enjoy the free ride just like everyone else.

Why work for it if the government will give it to me is now my motto. I actually wanna quit my new job and get on welfare, if its there why not use it? I'm going start throwing personal responsibility out the window like most of America has done and rely on the government and fall in line.
  by: willyshawker     09/24/2009 11:31 PM     
Perhaps the reason people are so opposed to things like this is because they /are/ lazy people who, if given the choice, wouldn't bother working for a better tomorrow. Not everyone is that philosophically useless, however, as evidenced by other countries.
  by: velger   09/24/2009 11:41 PM     
  Not surprised.  
They would probably be opposed to civil rights 45 years ago too (and probably still are).
  by: captainchainsaw   09/24/2009 11:56 PM     
  What government care?  
Had I lived in USA I would certainly try my best to try to change the system to a single payer system (which is not happening atm) because it would cover everyone and it would cost far less.
Kick out the insurance companies completely. Health care not wealth care!
  by: Kaleid   09/25/2009 12:36 AM     
"The young, poor, women and black people are its biggest supporters."

this group most likely gets walefare, food stsmps and medical coverage already.
  by: shannon853   09/25/2009 12:43 AM     
  @ everyone who has commented so far.  
I dont think you guys actually understand this health care reform and are gravely mistaken for thinking that it has anything at all to do with lazy or people waiting for handouts.

You actually have to PAY for the health coverage. It is NOT FREE. This is just low cost insurance offered from someone other than profit driven corporations who give a rats ass about you being healthy as long as you pay your premiums.

The reason it is supported by a majority of Blacks and minorities is fairly simple. They make up the main labor force and usually work for companies that do not carry insurance or they make low incomes where they cannot afford to opt-in for insurance for the families. Even for basic 4 person family coverage with Kaiser the you are looking at almost $200 a month for Mom, Dad and 2 kids. Not to mention if they happen to get sick and need medicine or surgery. Oh and dont forget the deductibles and specialist visits. Add all these up and a family of 4 just on average is probably paying $6k a year on medical. Now if you only make $9 and hour and you have to pay for rent, utilities and food. Do you:
A. Try to get medical and not be able to afford the basics of life
B. Use the money for living and pray that no one gets sick?

Judging from some of your guys responses and attitudes I wouldnt be surprised if it were:
C. Just Die.
  by: truhawg   09/25/2009 01:51 AM     
"women" get welfare? We ARE half the population so the ones getting it are a tiny subset of that, also I would like to state that for every woman out there receiving welfare, there is probably a man avoiding paying her any child support. But I guess only the rich old white men are worthy of your respect, right? You are disrespecting the vast majority of the country, by the way.
  by: gryphon50a   09/25/2009 02:13 AM     
I'm rich? Damnit, I could have been living the good life all this time. Why did no one tell me I was in line for champagne wishes and caviar dreams? Seriously though, the title on this article is so biased it makes me sick. I would ask a mod to change it to something not quite so Moonbat-ish.
  by: DaReapaMan   09/25/2009 03:52 AM     
It's young people that are going to have pay the vast majority of the expenses on this type of reform...I really hope that those who are voting on such a proposal are truly up to the task, instead of merely being lazy goodfornothing's looking for a handout.
  by: darkshanker   09/25/2009 03:54 AM     
You sound like an *angry* white man! :)
  by: Ben_Reilly     09/25/2009 06:14 AM     
This is actually a good pole in spite of how Ben wants to spin it.
Rich, poor, white or black, at least there is still a majority with enough sense to see the current bill as it stands should not be passed. And I hope we hold our ground.

There sure are a lot with no opinion. But that stands to reason, it is the majority of the young people who could not care less and are to wrapped up in their own life to be bothered. Then there are quite a few others who believe it will be free so they want it in. Unfortunately their vote counts in this pole, even though they haven't a clue what is going on around them.

Why would you bail because of the ignorance of others? Interesting thing about this poll is those with the most education vote against it. We need people with enough common sense to see this bill is nothing more then smoke and mirrors.

So when this government talks about affordable health care and better quality not to mention it will be mandatory and there are thousands who won't be able to afford it no matter how little it costs, look around and sadly shake your head at those who buy into that concept, surely they have not learned, "You only get what you pay for." So the quality will drop, and "Nothing is free." We will be paying for those who cannot afford it.

My answer would be to leave our health care system in tact, make another government hand out program and give insurance to the ones that cannot afford it. We will pay for it anyway.

At least this article proves one thing Willy, the age old saying "Seek the wise old man" still holds true.
  by: Hotwired   09/25/2009 06:34 AM     
"Why work for it if the government will give it to me is now my motto. I actually wanna quit my new job and get on welfare, if its there why not use it? I'm going start throwing personal responsibility out the window like most of America has done and rely on the government and fall in line."

As a poor college student I invite you to try. I make low enough anual income to qualify for the "Greatest need" level of governemnt housing assistance. I looked into it and found a 2+ year waiting list.

I could get food stamps but the pile of forms I have to fill out is insane.

Have you ever tried to navigate your city without a car? Try it. The bus in most cities takes an hour or more to get anywhere (45 mins here for me to go 2.2 miles).

The wonderful welfare 'highlife' doesn't exist. Live as a poor person for a month and I bet it will change your view on things.
  by: Common_Tater   09/25/2009 06:40 AM     
Those with the most education are in favor of the bill.
  by: Ben_Reilly     09/25/2009 07:03 AM     
I was waiting for your reply. Don't like my twist? Yes Ben, the ones with some college and those who graduated college out rank the postgrad's and the high school or less.
  by: Hotwired   09/25/2009 07:12 AM     
What, did you do math on this or something?
  by: Ben_Reilly     09/25/2009 07:27 AM     
  My Goddess  
Willy & Shannon-I think you are either being dramatic or ignorant to the fact no one is saying that HCR is going to be FREE. If you want to sit on your ass and get welfare you would be getting medicaid which is already available so that makes no sense. Plus I don't know if anyone actually looks into something before they spout off or not, there is Welfare reform that Clinton put in place and those recieving cash assistance can only do so for 2 years..PERIOD..and if they need help again they can get Food Stamps or insurance if they are below the poverty line.

So the comment from Shannon is saying that the people who are already getting this would vote for it makes little sense since they already have it and will even if HCR fails.

*this group most likely gets walefare, food stsmps and medical coverage already.*

gryphon50a- You are right when you say many women who do have to ask for help is lacking in child support payments. They are also working 1 or more jobs while juggling child care and rent, but how dare we mention that because some people on here doesn't want to face facts, they only want to whine and say they will get a handout. Don't remind them that you would have to still pay for your own insurance because they want the drama effect. I call it the closed ear syndrome when I hear people acting like this anymore. They have ate the fear and are not able to think for themselves.

Common- I am glad you posted what you did and I see no one has called you on it, which means they haven't found anything that the fear mongers have said about a college student yet. I tried to point what you are saying out before and put a link for the Welfare challenge, many didn't get the point they had to figure out a way to eat a well balanced mean like the currently are and figured out Ramen noodles could be the major staple. Too bad they didn't think of the effects of that on your body or a child's body if they ate that day after day. They rather live in their worlds where if someone needs help they are scum.

Truhawg- You made a great post also, but no one will listen because they rather blame it on poor people who already have Medicaid, like they somehow will be the 'winners' of HCR, nevermind they are already covered. Oh and I have chosen B in my early years and would have to yet again if I lost my insurance.

velger,captainchainsaw,Kaleid- Good points.
  by: TaraB     09/25/2009 02:52 PM     
Perhaps rich old white men should STFU while we take care of our own. I _almost_ feel sorry for the portion of the american population that's having such a hard time dealing with all of this. Culture shock!!! Welcome to the present day. Black guy as president, health care for the poor... next thing you know they'll be teaching evolution in the schools. Time to wake up America, you're about to miss the bus.
  by: spiggy   09/25/2009 03:58 PM     
And jaded. But if you're not sure, let's trade places!
  by: H. W. Hutchins   09/25/2009 05:28 PM     
it is for sure you do not live in the biggest walefare state, california. it is also for sure you do not have friends that have for years worked for the state investigating or being social services workers and know first hand how the system is abused grossly. here no investigation is done and a person goes to teh walefare office and applys for walfare then is cut a check for over 1 thousand on their word only. they then get free services. now face it, someone that can not afford to pay will end up getting it free. so will allillegals somply by having the magic wand of obama and congress claiming the illegals now by blessing of amenasty lkegal and now able to get it. also all anchor babies will get covered and of course the parents must be covered as they must be well to care for their babies. a shame those with eyes can not see.
  by: shannon853   09/25/2009 05:29 PM     
I appreciate your response and I am going to try and answer it the best I can. I live in the state hardest hit by the recession, my state was in a recession for 2 years before anyone else noticed what was happening. I posted about it here on SN in 2007 and a few people that aren't here anymore said I was lying when I warned everyone what was going on. I also have close family members that live in California so I do indeed know what is going on out there and I will even say I believe it is wrong that the state is going bankrupt to take care of illegal aliens. If you have ever read any of my posts on that issue you would know I am against illegal aliens getting benefits and protection from being deported.

I know all too well the way that people are able to get away with things that they shouldn't because I am a Mandated Reporter. I know what the face of abuse and neglect is and the frustration when the social workers are overridden by a judge and a child comes back in with more bruises or broken bones from an "accident" and children that are so dirty and smelly when 'Mom' is dressed up and nails done waiting to hurry up and get out of there so she can go clubbing. Yes I know too well Shannon.

The problem I am having with what you have written is that none of these things have anything to do with HCR. You seem to think that Health Care Reform is going to be free for everyone and that just isn't true, if it was we would be putting everyone on Medicaid which is what all these people you have talked about is getting. If the HCR happens as it is written right now not only will we all have to pay for our own health insurance, everyone that is out there working part time jobs, or whos company has rates too high to afford, would then be able to pay for something that is affordable and through the same Insurance companies that are already around. If you want Kaiser(I dont know why, but lets use it) then you can have Kaiser, if you want Blue Cross you can have Blue Cross. The difference is that they would have to compete each other to get your business instead of you being forced to one or the other because of where you work.

Nowhere does it say that Obama is giving illegal aliens health care coverage, in fact he has stated time and again that they will NOT cover any illegals. There also is not amnesty coming anytime soon, I wish people would read a variety of news and not just FOX or MSNBC.

"a shame those with eyes can not see."

I can see Shannon and I have been seeing for many years how families and adults will come into the ER when their health gets so bad because they don't have health insurance and they put off treatment because they couldn't afford the Dr.'s fees.

What I see Shannon after working in the medical field for the majority of my life is that people need health care that is affordable to them. I see that not taking care of ourselves and allowing oneself to get so sick that they need to take time off and if they are lucky a few medications, which they often don't fill because they can't afford to.

I see that the people who should be shamed is those that are so scared because of a black man with a D behind their name is suggesting that ALL the citizens should be able to afford health care.

I often hear Republican's say they are there for the TRUE American's and that they are the party that is for the working man..if it is true and they feel the working man is worth using for their campaigns, why aren't they worth being healthy?

Even with Ben's Hyped headline which will get those always ready for an arguement with him, if you put it in a order that isn't with the hype.
The working poor don't have insurance, not the welfare poor because they already have insurance. The working poor are the ones we often depend on the most and give no thought to afterwards. Waitresses, gas station attendants, any part-time employee in a grocery store, clothing stores-hell most of the retail workers and I could list on for an hour.
  by: TaraB     09/25/2009 06:12 PM     
I tried translating your last post into English but it crashed Babelfish. How is babby formed?

My mother was laid off as a chemist several years back and went back to the job she did in the 60's-70's at the welfare dept. They certainly don't just take anyone's word when giving out benefits - there are stacks of conditions and rules that apply, and my mother often apologetically must tell clients that there is simply nothing she can do to grant particular benefits because it's the way the system is designed. I'm certainly not saying that the welfare system isn't abused by some but they do not take cases of fraud lightly. I can't speak for California as I understand the whole state government is going to shite there.


As always... you go gurl!!! That is all.
  by: spiggy   09/25/2009 06:58 PM     
  The cable company in my area ...  
once charged my brother two months in a row for a pay-per-view event he never got to watch.

I ordered two channels recently and didn't get them for over a week.

I try to use the company's online billing, and half the time it doesn't work. Meanwhile, some months I get three bills.

People still manage to steal service from my cable provider and get free TV.

So I think the cable company should completely abandon its effort to provide cable TV. With the problems I just named, it's pointless for them to continue to operate, right? I mean, if you can't do something perfectly, for the love of God -- don't do it at all.

I say all this because this is basically the same argument anti-reform people so often use. The government screws up from time to time. People abuse the system, and mistakes are made. So the government should just pack it in and give up. After all, if you can't do something perfectly, you shouldn't even try, right?
  by: Ben_Reilly     09/25/2009 07:20 PM     
well they won't be stealing cable for much longer. Verizon has a system where you need a box to get the channels you cant just plug the wire into the TV anymore and get the basics.

Comcast is rolling out the saem thing starting in September, not sure about time warner, I know the smaller companies dont have that yet but its coming.

As always though if there is a will there is a way people will find ways around it, before I got Fios I had Comcast and I paid for service had a box with all the channels but they want to charge you 5 bucks for every TV in the house if you want cable hooked up the ridiculous so in that case I did just run the cable wire to my other TV's it didnt cost them anything
  by: willyshawker     09/25/2009 08:03 PM     
nm I see you where being sarcastic I guess lol

Government screws up from time to time, how about 95 percent of the time, everything they touch usually turns to shit, mainly becuase they don't have competent people in charge and tend to "borrow" money from the program for some other program that is going bankrupt becuase they had to "borrow" money from another program and the cycle goes on excpet the moneu isnt ther eto pay it back.

I like the fact that you have faith in the government and want to believe they won't screw it up, I respect that but if you look at the track record you have to realize why people are so skeptical of the government touching anything
  by: willyshawker     09/25/2009 08:08 PM     
Gotta chime in on this one. Don't want to get into a pissing match again, with you especially, but I need to call you on something:

"Nowhere does it say that Obama is giving illegal aliens health care coverage, in fact he has stated time and again that they will NOT cover any illegals. There also is not amnesty coming anytime soon, I wish people would read a variety of news and not just FOX or MSNBC."

The thing about this is that nowhere in the bill does is say that anyone will be required to prove their citizenship. No matter what Obama says, there will be no requirement to make sure that you are legally eligible for the coverage. Now, following that thought, who will end up paying for the people that are here illegally, and go to the hospital. If every American is covered, then won't the hospital, not being able to confirm residency in America, have to assume that everyone who walks through the door is covered. Who will end up paying for those people? And personally speaking, if I refuse to give proof of residency, then who will pay my hospital bills? Won't it be the universal health plan, even though they won't know who they are paying for? If not, then who?

As usual, it's not what Obama says that worries me; it's what he's not saying.


"Those with the most education are in favor of the bill."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that the rich, white, old men are amongst the most educated in America. Otherwise they would most likely be poor, white, old men.
  by: TheIdiotUpstairs   09/25/2009 09:10 PM     
Don't be ridiculous. If the government screwed up 95 percent of everything it took on, buildings would be collapsing left and right (inspections would be 95 percent screwed up), you wouldn't be able to get on the road without having an accident (vehicle inspections, traffic lights, road construction, etc. would be screwed up 95 percent of the time), and we probably wouldn't be Americans any more (the military would have lost 95 percent of the wars we've fought).
  by: Ben_Reilly     09/25/2009 09:11 PM     
No, you're not just wrong, your absolutely wrong. I don't know how one person manages to be so wrong. It's like you should just think something and write the opposite of whatever you're thinking, then you'll always be right! : )

The public option in the health reform proposal -- for the MILLIONTH time -- is not free. You pay a premium for it. It is not taxpayer funded. So if you don't want illegals buying it, you probably don't want it to be legal for a grocery store to sell goods to illegals, either. There's an idea -- let's starve them out. Would that be "compassionate conservatism"?

ERs being required to treat anyone who shows up is a completely separate issue from the public option. Your tax dollars ALREADY PAY FOR ILLEGALS TO GET TREATED IN EMERGENCY ROOMS. The Republicans voted that into law back in 2003.

Let's just argue about what the facts mean, OK? I'm tired of correcting all the falsehoods you write. If you want to debate about something, first get the facts straight, THEN offer your opinion. Otherwise it's pointless, unless you're just trying to get other people to believe your lies.
  by: Ben_Reilly     09/25/2009 09:17 PM     
  Final points to willy, TIU  
... and then I'm done, because you two are maddening.

willy -- I know you're quite young. Thus, your formative years were under one of the absolute worst presidents in U.S. history. Most presidential administrations are not nearly as bad as the one we had from 2001 through 2008. And I think when that is the main thing you know, then it's perhaps natural to think that the government can't do anything well.

But the government is why we have things like weekends, interstate highways and safe drinking water. Most of what the government takes on it does pretty well. Just look around you at everything in your life that is influenced in some way by the government and you'll start to appreciate that it really does do a pretty good job on most things.

@TIU -- if you look at the source article, Americans with post-graduate degrees support health care reform. Those are the most educated people in the country.
  by: Ben_Reilly     09/25/2009 09:24 PM     
I agree on you with those things but you can't deny when it comes to money there is a gross mismanagement or when it comes to certain programs the government does fail at them quite a bit and the constant borrowing w/o putting back is one reason social secuity is becoming a failure will be the same thing with healthcare because they dont know how to manage money correctly.

We need to run the government like a business
  by: willyshawker     09/25/2009 09:33 PM     
Ok. So then. You are right. It's not free. We will be paying for it. But along with the HCR bill is the notion that everyone, EVERYONE, will be forced to have health insurance. The only way to enforce that is to mandate it as a deduction from your income. Is there another way?

And you're missing the point that I was trying to make. If every American is required to have health insurance, and there's no requirement to prove that you are American, then if you are in this country and you can't show a proper insurance card it will be assumed that you have the public option. Once again I ask: who will be paying for it? Maybe I'm missing some part of the bill that states specifically that if I go to the hospital, it will be my plan that pays for it. Or will it just be the general public insurance coverage that will foot the bill? Could I just give them somebody else's SSN that I know is covered? Could an illegal from Mexico just give them any SSN just to get covered? Would it matter to the hospital which is just looking to get paid for services?

If I have UHC for an insurance company right now, and someone else tries to get medical care using my insurance card, there are private investigators employed by UHC to try to find this kind of fraud. If I have the new public option, and someone else uses my insurance card, would there be the same kind of investigative skill employed to ensure that it really is me that's filing the claims? Or would it just be covered under the public option, since everyone is required to carry insurance? And you can't look to Canada for a solution to this problem, since they don't have a huge illegal immigration problem.
  by: TheIdiotUpstairs   09/25/2009 09:47 PM     
  Have to agree with Ben here.  
Much as I think we should work towards small government, the arguments for it are getting a little crazed. I mean, if you're out there declaring that a 200 year-old global superpower government can't do anything right, you should really think about how grounded in reality the rest of your opinions are. Maybe your head's not clear on a few other things...

One other thing, on something TIU said: "If every American is covered, then won't the hospital, not being able to confirm residency in America, have to assume that everyone who walks through the door is covered."

Why would they assume that? First of all, this nation isn't just made up of Americans and illegal immigrant invaders, as seems to be the way it's always discussed. There are plenty of non-citizens within our borders legally. Secondly, I don't see why a government plan wouldn't work like any other healthcare plan, for which you present your proof of coverage to receive care. The proposal to fling wide the doors to every healthcare center in America is just not out there. Why can't this issue be discussed without such distortions and red-herrings?
  by: MomentOfClarity     09/25/2009 09:56 PM     
Aww I can't be that bad, can I?

I can understand where you are coming from and it would concern me except for 2 things in particular.

1. The ER already has to accept everyone if they are insured or not, at least to the point that the patient is stable. That law would stay the same as it already is thanks to the rich old white men that voted it in.

2. You would have your insurance card with you and they would swipe it like they do already to make sure you have coverage. If you do not have your card they will ask for valid ID, if you still calim you have no way to prove who you are they will ask for your social security number. The practice is already used and there wouldn't be a reason to change it.

The thing I see so much and yet makes no sense to me is people who say they will be getting welfare or everyone is getting free insurance. If that were the case then the government could just issue Medicaid numbers to everyone and there is your 'free' health care.

The plan is to make it where Insurance companies can no longer screw us left & right by giving us 'pre-existing conditions' (damn me having bronchitis in my life!) and premiums that are higher than some peoples grocery bills.

Is it perfect? Not as I would like to see. It is however better than what we have going right now.
  by: TaraB     09/25/2009 10:02 PM     
Financially independant members of our largest national ethnicity oppose this healtchare bill, while the more impoverished demographics support the measures?

WOW, that's a shocker. Who'dda thunk it? I'd expect those self-sustaining rich assholes to just give their money away. I mean, why else wouldn't they want to commit to unseen trillions in future healthcare obligations?

Puh-leeze. Give me some actual news.

"I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." - Ben Franklin
  by: austrian   09/26/2009 05:20 AM     
  I Think I Have The Reason  
In this summery:
"U.S. Health Care Reform Mainly Opposed by Rich Old White Men"

An in another:
"Florida Strippers Give Seniors Food and Flu Shots"

I'd sign on to their medical plan in a heart beat.
  by: ichi     09/26/2009 07:36 AM     
When you read or watch 'A Christmas Carol,' you like Scrooge better in the beginning than in the end, don't you?
  by: Ben_Reilly     09/26/2009 07:48 AM     
Ichi- Yeah that would be a good way to get those rich old white men to agree to it also.LOL Hey you figured out who to get the majority behind the plan! ;-)

MOC- As usual you bring common sense into the discussion, thank you.
  by: TaraB     09/26/2009 11:29 AM     
Well, maybe if your generation hadn't gotten us in an unpayable amount of debt...
  by: tsume   09/27/2009 04:15 PM     
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