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10/13/2009 02:22 AM ID: 81111 Permalink   

6-Year-Old Scout Brings Camping Implement to School, Gets Sent to Reform School

 

Zachary Christie, six years old, was very proud of becoming a Cub Scout. So proud that he brought his camping implement to school to eat lunch with. This implement folds out into a fork, spoon, and knife.

Since it contains a knife blade, Zachary will spend 45 days in reform school.

Regardless of intent, knives are banned in this school district - even for first-graders. According to the young miscreant: "I think the rules are what is wrong, not me."

 
  Source: www.nytimes.com  
    WebReporter: cranky_paranoid Show Calling Card      
  Recommendation:  
ASSESS this news: BLOCK this news. Reason:
   
  28 Comments
  
  The rules aren't wrong and the kid wasn't wrong...  
 
the parents are at fault for not teaching the child that his knife was only to be carried or used under certain circumstances.

Of course, if the parents did lay those guidelines out and the kid did it anyway, the child should be publicly flogged half to death... twice. :)

BB
 
  by: bbeljefe     10/13/2009 03:07 AM     
  the rules are in the wrong  
 
honestly it is a surival knife with spoon and fork, it is not a weapon, scissors would be just as effective to kill a someone.

people need to stop being wusses about every little thing. why do the baby boomers feel they must bubble wrap the world they managed to survive long enough to become old cowards.
 
  by: veya_victaous     10/13/2009 03:18 AM     
  Right  
 
School districts saying that using a knife and fork for eating is a violent action... Must remember that. According the the super bright, hard rule fixed schools, kids should hereby no longer to be allowed to eat with a knife and fork, as they are to be considered far to dangerious.

No one should be tought proper eating until they are 18 years or older, until then, you must use your hands alone, as everyone knows there is no possible way to hurt a person with your hands*


*Note: Once schools figure out that people can use their hands to hurt others, people will either have to remove their hands to attend school or wear oversize padded gloves.
 
  by: ssxxxssssss   10/13/2009 04:07 AM     
  Idiots That Make Unbendable Rules  
 
create these problems. no law or rule should be so set in granite that common sense is ignored.
 
  by: ichi     10/13/2009 04:15 AM     
  @ bbeljefe  
 
the parents are at fault for not teaching the child that his knife was only to be carried or used under certain circumstances.

He used his Spoon, knife and fork to eat lunch that is what you do with silver where. I think the parents taught him well, he didn't use his hands to eat.
Actually I think the fault lies in people with your train of thought. The kid posed no threat so take your rule an shove it where the sun doesn't shine.
 
  by: hellblazer     10/13/2009 05:06 AM     
  Damn  
 
This is the second boy scout this week to get in trouble for a knife. The other one is a teen who had a knife in his car as part of his survival kit. The principal had heard about the knife and asked the student to open his car which the boy did right away. Because of the suspension he might not be able to get into West Point like he has always wanted to since he was a toddler.

I think that the districts need to take a look at these policies and use some common sense when it comes to suspensions and reform school. I know there would be no way in hell my kids went to a reform school, they would be home schooled instead.
 
  by: TaraB     10/13/2009 05:15 AM     
  Obviously, there are those who took my comment  
 
too seriously, even though I added the last bit about flogging.

Rules, along with some laws, are subject to discretionary enforcement.

In this case, the student obviously broke a rule but didn't do so with malice. None of us know the truth about how this student used or displayed this tool, but I would hazard to guess that he did so with purely innocent intentions.

That being said, I can only imagine the comments from those of you who have chastised me if the title of this story had been "Boy Scout Uses Swiss Army Knife to Stab Teacher".

I made a tongue in cheek comment with a basis on real and justifiable concern and have been lambasted by:

veya_victaous, to whom I respond, I am neither a baby boomer nor a coward. My parents are baby boomers and neither of them are cowards.

ssxxxssssss, to whom I respond, surely you can formulate an intelligent argument.

and of course,

hellblazer, to whom I respond, it's silverware. "Silver where" describes neither eating utensils nor does it appropriately ask where one can locate silver.

BB
 
  by: bbeljefe     10/13/2009 06:37 AM     
  @ this stupid rule  
 
I am going home tonight and teach my 9 year old how to kill his teacher with a plastic butter knife. So, when he gets caught spreading jelly on his bread with a knife,he can quickly dispatch the snitch. After all, if this rule is set in stone and there is no leeway, I want him all in on his offense. /sarcasm
 
  by: snowztorm29     10/13/2009 02:24 PM     
  If you want to help Zachary...  
 
or just send a letter of support here's the site:

http://www.helpzachary.com/...


There is a petition and other links. You know what to do.
 
  by: valkyrie123     10/13/2009 04:47 PM     
  I may sound daft..  
 
but what's a School District?
 
  by: MalcolmB   10/13/2009 06:55 PM     
  They should overlook this.  
 
I mean obviously they cant have kids carrying knives to school under any circumstances. The reason being you'll get older ones that are wise to it and take in sharpened concealed weapons, there would be people who abuse it.

But this, its obviously an honest mistake. Sending a 6 year old to a reform school in itself is totally wrong. That 'proud cub' could come out something totally different.

Whoever enforced this needs their head looked at.
 
  by: AccessG     10/13/2009 08:16 PM     
  What?  
 
This just goes to show how rules and laws create the problem!
 
  by: marbee   10/13/2009 09:48 PM     
  Here & There  
 
MalcomB- I rarely use Wiki but this time it could explain it better than I could. http://en.wikipedia.org/...

Valk- Thanks for the link. I know exactly where I can pass this on.

 
  by: TaraB     10/13/2009 10:26 PM     
  @ Maocolm  
 
I'm probably violating etiquette by responding to my own post, but here you go: a School District is a related collection of schools, generally in a community. In smaller communities, there will be only one school in the district (covering all grades through High School) whereas in larger communities there will be several schools comprising the district. In the US these are normally based on the municipality where they are located, ie New Orleans has its own (corrupt) district and each suburb has its own district.

HTH
 
  by: cranky_paranoid     10/13/2009 10:29 PM     
  @TaraB  
 
A student with a knife in his Car and he got asked to open the car!? Maybe they should ask all kids to invite them home and see if they are violeting any Laws, for having kitchen knives.... Bah ;(

This Kid shold sue this Principal needs to uderstand laws and regulations pertinent to private properties. A car is on the road because it is paying to be there. IN other word, it is paying Road Rent, a Driver has to be paying also, to drive on this road, it is Called a Licence.

This Kid should look into this and sue for psychological damages, and harrassment.... I hope it happened in America, easier to sue. Just find a lawyer who will take 10-20% of the purse and you are good to sue.
 
  by: skcusswentrohs     10/13/2009 11:13 PM     
  Skcuss  
 
While I agree with you that his car is his or his parents private property the schools have been allowed to claim that if they are parked on school property it can be searched at anytime if there is a reasonable concern

The boy I was talking about had been asked if they could check after someone told the officals it was in the car. He showed them without any worries that he would be faced with what happened to him.
Read the link and I know you will want to talk about this further and I am willing to do so.
http://www.wten.com/...
 
  by: TaraB     10/13/2009 11:50 PM     
  @TaraB  
 
After reading the 1st para' I was wondering, what the hell were they thinking?

OK here I go back and forth again. When the time allows us to look at somebodies records and rehabilitate them accordingly, they should be allowed to become normal citizens and live their life freely.

Unfortunately this society does not. Hence we continue punishing people who were bad once. <<< That said.

In this boys case when you look at his record and personal achievements in his life, the editor of the news says "LANSINGBURGH -- High school senior Matthew Whalen is the kind of student any parent would want." but because we are so gung ho with continuous punishment, we tend to turn a blind eye, even to a good record, because someone thinks (in case and point)he should be reprimanded, and most likely screw up his child-hood dreams and perhaps his entire life.

What would they say, if he becomes so irate and decides to carry machete and use it next time?

This is the type of vigilantism that I completely disagree with. Like what that principal and this story here has done...

Thanx for the link.
 
  by: skcusswentrohs     10/14/2009 01:26 AM     
  Skcuss  
 
You are welcome. I really think that these Zero Tolerance policies need to reviewed and pretty much tossed out. The problem is that when they let the schools have discretion they were accused of letting more white students go than black students. Personally I think that is bunk and the reason the numbers were greater or lessor was actually because of the racial make-up of the schools. The boy and girl scouts are programs that the schools pass out information on and in some cases let them use the school afterschool for their meetings. The 6 year old was simply proud of being a Cub Scout and the 17 year old was being smart and having a knife in his locked car that is part of his survival kit, this is the same thing that our own government suggests that we do as part of being prepared for an emergency. It is pathetic and these schools should think about changing the policy and those that are actually suspending the kids.
 
  by: TaraB     10/14/2009 02:34 AM     
  Boy Scout Uses Swiss Army Knife to Stab Teacher  
 
I've obviously never tested the theory, but I'm pretty sure I could do more damage in one swing with a sharp pencil than I could with a swiss army knife.
 
  by: DaReapaMan   10/14/2009 03:11 AM     
  Dear Zachary aged 25,  
 
we understand that you are enthusiastic, bright and motivated, however, it has come to our attention that when you were 6 you were placed in a reform school for a 'knife crime'. While we do not have the sealed records showing exactly the circumstances the 'Google News Archive' did report it.

Best of luck to you in the future and remember, be vigilant civilian.
 
  by: AccessG     10/14/2009 03:13 AM     
  @TaraB  
 
What makes me wonder is those responsible teachers! How do they become teachers, if this is the train of thoughts. They cant make fruitful decisions to the segment that they are actually infusing the same... Good luck to Parents, thats including meself.
 
  by: skcusswentrohs     10/14/2009 04:00 AM     
  Common Sense  
 
Where you find the laws most numerous, there you will find also the greatest injustice.

Arcesilaus
 
  by: JimmyD   10/14/2009 04:07 AM     
  Skcuss  
 
I think for the most part that teachers themselves are not the ones that are causing the problem(at least in these two cases, all others would be depending on the circumstances)it is the lunchroom worker(for the 6 year old), the principals(for both) and the athletic director(for the 17 year old)which made it such a problem.

I have to say that I have been blessed with very good teachers for my girls, minus 1 which was promptly taken care of when the issues with her were found out by myself and my husband. Most teachers would be able to make a determination if a child brought a utensil like the 6 year old did and as for the knife they would have been able to decide if it was truly part of a survival kit or not. The problem starts to happen when you have a Zero Tolerance and the teachers can no longer look at each case on the merits.

Certain schools around here have to send notes home reminding the students to leave their bows, knives and guns at home during hunting season depending on where the school is vs the city limits where they are never allowed. A lot of students (male and female) will leave school and immediatley go hunting or will be hunting on Sunday so the reminders are needed.

Back to these cases, if the teachers had the ability to determine which is a real offense or if it was something that could be a warning to not bring it again that would be the better option. Zero Tolerance hasn't stopped violence in schools and they won't be anytime soon because the kids that are getting 'caught' with these things are the ones who are honest and play by the rules.
 
  by: TaraB     10/14/2009 04:25 AM     
  @Tara  
 
Stories like the student with a knife in his car will only teach our kids to lie. Getting busted for honesty (agreeing that he has a knife in his car, and agreeing to show it to the principal) will only teach a kid how unreasonable school punishment is, and had he lied and denied there was a knife in his car, he'd still get into West Point.

Unfair punishment isn't going to save anyone from anything. It's going to change the standard from "you do the crime, you do the time" to something like "you do something close to the crime that's completely benign, and you're going to do way more time than is fair."
 
  by: barryman9001   10/14/2009 07:14 PM     
  Also  
 
My cousin was expelled for having a small Swiss Army knife and "pills" in his locker. Turns out the "pills" were allergy medicine, and the "knife" was one of those tiny nail file sized pocket knives, but the school only heard "Knife and drugs in locker" and kicked him out.
 
  by: barryman9001   10/14/2009 07:16 PM     
  Update  
 
The School Board voted to rethink the rule. The boy will get a 3 to 5 day suspension instead of 45 days.

Common sense is becoming more and more uncommon.
 
  by: ichi     10/14/2009 07:19 PM     
  Ichi, Barry, all  
 
Ichi- They probably got bombarded with calls and e-mails from all the different boards and sites that ran with this story and passed around his link. I am glad to see they really shouldn't send a 6 year old to a reform school that is attended by students with records including rape, assualt, robbery and other behavoiral issues. Hopefully his parents will continue to support those that were in contact this week with similar problems.

Barry- I agree that these policies are not helping, I can see kids that would never lie to school staff to start thinking maybe I should when their honesty is rewarded with not only punishment but extreme punishment.

We tell our girls that honesty is the most important thing and that if they get caught doing something that is against the rules yes they might have a small punishment, but it will be nothing like they would get if they lied about it. Example before someone jumps my butt about still punishing them would be no phone for the rest of the evening(my 9 year olds weak spot) vs no phone for 3 days.

Zero Tolerance is just another thing we let slip into schools because of our fear that another Columbine would happen. If these people that pushed for it would stop and use the brain they have they would realize that a kid determined to kill or seriously harm others is not going to be suddenly stopped by thinking "Oh thats right I can't bring my gun in, school is a Zero Tolerance zone."
 
  by: TaraB     10/15/2009 05:39 AM     
  can't see the forest for the trees  
 
and they can't smell their own ____ on their knees.
 
  by: shaohu     10/15/2009 12:07 PM     
 
 
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