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10/31/2009 09:41 PM ID: 81472 Permalink   

Flu Shot Recipient Can Now Only Walk Backwards, Talk Clearly When Running

 

In an apparent one-in-a-million case, Desiree Jennings, 26, says she now suffers from a rare neurological disorder called dystonia because of a flu shot she got ten days before falling ill. She can't walk, but can run; she can still walk backwards.

Also, she can no longer speak properly unless she is running. Jennings met with dozens of doctors before her diagnosis, which has no known cure. It's typically brought on from poisoning, drug use, or head trauma.

According to the FDA, the influenza vaccine which Jennings received came from a batch which has been found to have nothing wrong with it. Jennings is an avid runner and was in training for a marathon in August when she got the flu shot.

 
  Source: www.ktla.com  
    WebReporter: caution2 Show Calling Card      
  Recommendation:  
ASSESS this news: BLOCK this news. Reason:
   
  54 Comments
  
  Video  
   
  by: caution2     10/31/2009 09:43 PM     
  Her  
 
brain lost the ability to control signal output for low speed forward organization, it fires the muscles at the rapid rate used in running etc.

Walking backwards slows it down due to the difficulty of maintaining a backward moving balance.

It´s sad that she´s the first case tho and not some worthless member of society with no life or goals, but the .gov and CDC view these cases as sacrificing a few to keep the bug from killing tens of thousands of their income generators.
 
  by: Synister1   10/31/2009 11:28 PM     
  @Synister1  
 
You´re saying these organisations are trying to save lives? Dastardly.
 
  by: Ec5618   11/01/2009 12:01 AM     
  i wonder  
 
I wonder if they tried giving her muscle relaxants... not that drugs are always the answer to everything but it has been said that she can not really control her muscles.
 
  by: fordrew11   11/01/2009 01:37 AM     
  This is why  
 
I will NEVER get the flu shot or H1N1 shot.

Looking at the outcome of this case, I would rather die fighting than suffer living.
 
  by: JimmyDaFang   11/01/2009 06:11 AM     
  according to jennings....  
 
it was the flu shot that caused it.

I don´t think i believe her somehow.
More likely it was a stroke or trauma that the doctors havent detected (or rather, that Jennings says they didn´t detect).

This is really stupid.
 
  by: jamesmc   11/01/2009 08:09 AM     
  As with all news  
 
is this for real?

I was trying to find the article on SN about vaccine producers being given legal immunity in the US - found it through google but it´s been blocked here.

For those who missed the article, here´s one source:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/...

What was the reason for it being blocked here anyway?
http://www.shortnews.com/...
 
  by: MouseJunkie     11/01/2009 09:04 AM     
  @MJ  
 
The submitter copied directly from the source.
 
  by: caution2     11/01/2009 09:47 AM     
  It´s Real  
 
Fordrew11 & jamesmc-This case is real has been verified by all Dr.s that have seen her.

I see that they are calling her a Washington Redskins ambassador now, that´s good she was training really hard for awhile. She wasn´t only working on the marathon, she was hoping to get a spot on the Washington Redskins cheerleading team when this happened.

For some reason I thought I had put a link to her video in the forums, something about my youngest getting it in her email. Either way I am glad to see they did another article on her.

Even if they didn´t find anything in what was left of the vaccine with that batch there could have been something in that vial which brought on that side effect.

Shock of shock I am not yelling to grab the pitchforks! ;-) Seriously, this is why I say people need to look at all the pros and cons, with a special look at family history. She has stated for quite awhile now that there was nothing she knew about and I feel really bad for her. She had gotten the vaccine every year before this, and sadly both the pro and con vaccination groups have been using videos of her for their own cause and without her permission.

One other thing is if you can look at several of the videos of her from around the time of the marathon and then the Inside Edition clip you will see that she is getting worse as time passes. I hope they can find something to help her dystonia isn´t curable.
 
  by: TaraB     11/01/2009 10:10 AM     
  Blame the vaccine  
 
and don´t mention that you are 40-70 times more likely to get this disorder from the swine flu than from the shot. Good job media...
 
  by: Amaze   11/01/2009 11:19 AM     
  Amaze  
 
1.Do you have any proof that the Swine Flu causes dystonia?

2.Are you aware there is no known trigger found that causes dystonia?

3.Are you aware Desiree had this happen after the seasonal flu vaccine, not the h1n1 vaccine?

4.Did you know that Desiree has always been in favor of the flu vaccination, until this happened to her?

The mainstream media never picked up on this until the Inside Edition link at YouTube made it´s way around. A few weeks ago my youngest had the link sent to her in email and it wasn´t mentioned in many places when I did a search on it to see if it was factual or another scam.

I would also like to know where you got the 40-70 times more likely information at since all the searching I did on dystonia never mentioned that. I started to research this when I found out that Desiree wasn´t putting on a show so I would have all the information possible before I vaccinate my children.

What dystonia actually is
http://www.dystonia-foundation.org/...

Common Forms
http://www.dystonia-foundation.org/...

Drug induced
http://www.dystonia-foundation.org/...

 
  by: TaraB     11/01/2009 12:38 PM     
  Very Informative  
 
I think the tin foil hatters, (conspiracy nuts) are our checks and balances, with that said, we have had our government experiment many times on the population, (Tuskegee among others), so when you get ANY shot, from them, you should research what and if any side effects have been reported, and personally there seems to be a lot of hype about these shots which are a new shot every year because the virus mutates, if your area has a high number of cases then get the inoculation, of not I wouldn´t. Getting the shot in an unaffected area is like putting snow tires on your car when you live in Hawaii, its just superfluous you just maybe the poor soul that has complications.
 
  by: OrIgInAl_ThOuGhT   11/01/2009 04:00 PM     
  n/t  
 
How does anyone know for sure that it had anything to do with the flu shot? Maybe it´s just a coincidence - Like people who claim the flu shot gives them the flu. A dead virus can´t give them the flu. They probably caught it from someone who had the flu around the time they got the shot. They go into a doctor´s waiting room full of flu virus and then blame the shot for the flu.
 
  by: Lurker     11/01/2009 10:52 PM     
  Lurker  
 
She was actually very healthy before this happened and was training for a marathon and a try-out for the Washington Redskins. She has seen many Dr.´s during the period they were looking for what condition she had and how she got it. There wasn´t just a family Dr. and then dystonia was diagnosed, there was a lot of tests and appointments. All the Dr,´s that have seen her agree that it is dystonia and the vaccine caused it.

She isn´t out to be the poster girl for the Anti-vaccine groups nor for the pro-vaccine groups. People have grabbed the You Tube videos and have changed some of the video to put her in a pretty bad light, many claim she is lying because they never knew about dystonia and seeing her doing things normally when walking backward or running forward she can spreak normally. She also got a seasonal flu shot every year and never thought about not getting one or any problrms from it.

She is against the vaccine now but is not encouraging any one to do the same, I really can´t blame her because the life she knew was over and the symptoms can still get worse before she stabalizes and ´might´ start to get somewhat better.
 
  by: TaraB     11/01/2009 11:21 PM     
  @Tara  
 
Source for doctors agreeing that it was the flu shot?
 
  by: edya   11/01/2009 11:50 PM     
  edya  
 
Really? Really want me to prove it? Ok sure thing.

"Jennings says after seeing dozens of doctors, she was diagnosed with Dystonia -- a rare and debilitating neurological dsorder that affects muscular control. The condition, with no known cure, is usually caused by head trauma, drug use and poisoning."

"According to Jennings, medical hospitals ruled out everything after all her tests came back normal. The only explanation, she says, is that the shot caused her condition."

"Prior to getting the shot in August, Jennings was training for a half marathon. She says she received the flu shot in 2007 and 2008 without any problems. Her case is apparently a one-in-a-million occurrence."

These are from the source right here that Caution used. Since you might want to dispute those I will get some more.

"Doctors at Fairfax Inova and Johns Hopkins diagnosed her with a rare neurological disorder called dystonia. They think it was caused by a severe reaction to the flu shot."
And
"Finally, doctors at Johns Hopkins figured it out, diagnosing dystonia, a rare neurological condition with no cure brought on by infections, brain trauma or, as is believed in her case, reaction to medication. It causes body jerks and abnormal or repetitive movements."

"My insurance wasn´t going to pay for another hospital visit. Matter of fact, they called us as we were driving to Johns Hopkins not to offer a specialist but instead to offer a hospital bed and a wheelchair for our house. I told them I wanted to know what was happening to me and that I didn´t want to be in a wheelchair."

Her reaction is one in a million, doctors said.

"I would´ve much rather won the lottery and bought that ticket instead of gotten the flu shot if I knew that risk existed," she said."
http://www.nbcwashington.com/...

Is Johns Hopkins good enough for you? Only one of the best hospitals in the US and world if I may give my opinion.

Did anyone see that last part where her insurance was going to pay for a hospital bed and wheelchair instead of another visit? That can be one for ignorance of insurance companies and why there is a need for HCR, but I really hope this stays about Desiree. All the people that would like to say she is lying, I think people want her to be lying because it makes them stop and see the effects of the vaccine that we all comment on "the chance is 1 in a million that someone would get an adverse reactio...oops shit did you see what happened to that beautiful girl? Why couldn´t it have happened to some poor, toothless trash who is sucking off the hard workers?(true reply from a blog oh then one more) Why did they even mention this?We could just keep testing on the poor or useless people and kill tens of thousands off so we can save the people who make a difference." Yeah asshole comments like that really make you get the warm and fuzzies.

The one part that get´s me is she said "if I knew that risk existed"
See so many people are fast to jump on anyone that questions the side effects period and lable them anti-vaccine or states that you want to put the community or your children at risk! No, most of us that want to research before we do anything is trying to do what everyone else does with no thoughts to any side effects. She didn´t even know there were any and I can guess why. When they ask you in a Dr.´s office if you want them there are only 2 things they ask, are you allergic to bird feathers or eggs? Are you currently sick? Then you get the paper to sign, the shot and the paper explaining the shot and side effects AFTER the shot as you are leaving. A store like she got hers at probably did the same or less.

I feel horrible for her and once again check the risks against the advantages and then decide when you are informed.
 
  by: TaraB     11/02/2009 12:28 AM     
  saw this movie about 2 weeks ago  
 
couldn´t believe it. for the record - the shot she got was in August, so it was most likely a regular influenza A shot, not the swine flu shot.

"According to the FDA"
According to the FDA: "If you have enough money, we´ll say anything you want."
 
  by: djskagnetti     11/02/2009 01:17 AM     
  djskagnetti  
 
"saw this movie about 2 weeks ago couldn´t believe it. for the record - the shot she got was in August, so it was most likely a regular influenza A shot, not the swine flu shot."


It isn´t just pretty likely, it was the flu shot. The problem is that some people aren´t ready the summary OR the source and are just commenting on what the Headline says.

"According to the FDA: "If you have enough money, we´ll say anything you want."

I almost agree with you on that, the good thing is that she was seen and tested many times before the FDA gave out it results from the batch she is said to have been giving the vaccine from. I am curious to how much of the batch was even left considering the high demand Seasonal has been this year, and we know that the vial she was given it out of was long gone.

Like they are saying it is a ´one in a million chance.´ It hopefully wakes people up and they will start looking at the risks and things that they can attempt to do so it is lowered. They were giving the seasonal flu shot to people that were actually sick at the time and that is supposed to be a no-no.
 
  by: TaraB     11/02/2009 02:17 AM     
  Pretty interesting  
 
from a scientific standpoint. Sucks to be her, but I´ll still get the shots if I need it.
 
  by: nephew     11/02/2009 03:38 PM     
  nephew  
 
Her story isn´t about not getting a vaccination like many are using it for. She has been willing to speak about this because she wants people to know there are real side effects which most people don´t pay attention to. She even said she didn´t know there were any side effects. She said "if I knew that risk existed" which makes me wonder about where she was given the shot because they are required to give each patient a 2 sided sheet with the information and what symptoms to watch out for and what is common symptoms.

Yes, she does say she would never take it again knowing what she knows. It is a shame that she is being used by people for their ´side´ like those that have been told or says it was the h1n1 vaccine when it was the seasonal vaccine, she is faking it and no Dr, ever said she got it from the flu-even though there were confirmations for Johns Hopkins along with others.

Get the vaccine or don´t is each persons choice(right now), just make sure yuo are well educated about it.
 
  by: TaraB     11/02/2009 11:32 PM     
  Just to add a little balance  
 
I just wanted to add, as a sort of counterpoint to this woman´s story, the story of Luke Duvall, a top high-school athlete from Arkasas. Luke contracted H1N1 about a month ago. As his parents tell the story:

"OCTOBER 6, 2009 The flu seems to be subsiding. Fever has finally broken and now it time for a shower. But only a few minutes after feeling like taking a shower and coming back to life there is a new issue. Breathing is almost impossible now a decision must be made. Its late in the day, do we go to emergency room by car and wait in the holding area for possibly hours or do we go by ambulance. The ambulance is called and by the time the medics get there, oxygen is needed. Downward spiral and all is happening so quickly.

"October 7 Early morning breathing is increasingly difficult. The decision is made to transfere to Childrens Hospital. First thought is they will send an ambulance but a change of mind and the helicopter lands and waits. During the wait a vent tube become necessary and blood pressure drops to nothing.Thank God the right people are in the right place to do what is needful.
The next week is spent daily by Luke´s bedside. The many machines are a testimony to the gravity of the matter. Prayer is made continually by people of all faiths.

"Wednesday October 14,2009. The family was call to come to the hospital this morning. Since about 4 a.m. life has hung by a thread. Today will see Luke placed on his stomach to help with his breathing. This was such a shock after a week of constant improvements. Every day had been a small step to recovery but today was a huge step backward. This will be his position till Saturday morning.

"October 25,2009. Final day in intensive care. Eighteen days and now it time to start rehab. Working to regain the muscles lost. Last summer working with a personal trainer had Luke´s lungs at their peak of performance and his heart strong.Luke´s muscles were lean protein. The doctor said this gave him the advantage. Now it is all to be regained."

http://savingluke.org/...
 
  by: Ben_Reilly     11/02/2009 11:44 PM     
  Ben  
 
How does that balance anything? You posted a story about a H1N1 case and Desiree had the SEASONAL vaccine so comparing the two is apples and oranges.

 
  by: TaraB     11/03/2009 12:01 AM     
  @Tara  
 
That´s not really confirming it. Maybe it´s asking for too much for an actual confirmation (Especially since their useless insurance isn´t even paying for more treatments/visits) but I´d really like to know how it was caused.

You said yourself that we should be educated about it. I just want to know what exactly happened and how it could be prevented.

I don´t get flu vaccines mainly because I hate needles.
 
  by: edya   11/03/2009 05:19 AM     
  guess what....  
 
ANYONE 40 or younger has this to look forward to eventually, older folks too but not at nearly the same risk; in both cases esspecially if you continue receiving vaccines or otherwise taking in neuro-toxins... maybe not this particular disorder, but many ingredients in these vaccines are neurologically toxic, and accumulative; meaning the more you of these toxins you receive the higher the likelihood of people developing neurological disorder...

ANYONE that thinks its a coincidence the neurological disorders are far more common these days is a fool.

though this is definately one of the strangest cases i´ve heard about.


ironically, now she´s probably needs thousands of dollars worth of drugs for the rest of here life.

if only they HAD to be honest about what vaccines really are... then one day WE might get the REAL vaccines, not ones filled with neuro-toxins thats millions receives world wide.

theres a growing crowd that thinks these vaccines are simply a guise to cause long term health disorders, which they can then later treat at great profit... although whether incidental or by design thats exactly what happens.
 
  by: HAVOC666     11/03/2009 05:56 AM     
  @ben reilly  
 
and do you have the story for the 36,000 people that DIE from the SEASONAL FLU EVRY YEAR.

or the 200,000 hopitalizations from the SEASONAL FLU.

and these statistics are for the US alone.

EVERY YEAR there are potentially 236,000 cases much like you just described, from the SEASONAL FLU... yet, we don´t hear about those 236,000 people.
 
  by: HAVOC666     11/03/2009 06:09 AM     
  Edya  
 
You asked for the sources that confirmed it, I´m sorry that it wasn´t enough. Johns Hopkins and the others are the ones who ran all those tests and determined that the cause was the vaccine and I don´t believe she has let anyone see her records or any tests not that she should be expected to since it is the news that has kept coming to her. If she went seeking them out I might be more cautious. That and this is about the Seasonal and not the h1n1.

You are right I am the one that keeps saying research and you are asking questions instead of just claiming it is fake or saying it is the h1n1 like others. Dystonia seems to be such a unknown disorder to the outside world, and probably quite a few Dr´s and nurses. I don´t think I have ever heard about it in my town, but I am sure there are a few people who have it.

There might be something more on Desiree and dystonia elsewhere. If it were me I would stick to the offical sites and not deal with the pro and anti places they are both full of extreme bias.
 
  by: TaraB     11/03/2009 06:59 AM     
  possiblity  
 
Perhaps her previous flu shots (as well as the many environmental toxins which accumulate in our bodies) contributed to her development of dystonia. Unfortunately the adjuvants, preservatives and other chemicals included in vaccines are toxic to the body.

Repeated flu vaccinations have been linked to a 10-fold increase in Alzheimers as well as the symptoms of ALS and Parkinson´s.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/...

 
  by: rj   11/04/2009 05:44 PM     
  @HAVOC  
 
" and do you have the story for the 36,000 people that DIE from the SEASONAL FLU EVRY YEAR.

or the 200,000 hopitalizations from the SEASONAL FLU.

and these statistics are for the US alone.

EVERY YEAR there are potentially 236,000 cases much like you just described, from the SEASONAL FLU... yet, we don´t hear about those 236,000 people."

Seasonal flu kills sick and dying people, mostly much older people. Swine Flu HAS confirmed kills of YOUNG HEALTHY PEOPLE with NO PRE-EXISTING MEDICAL CONDITION. Those cases are few, but the H1N1 strain is now confirmed the dominant influenza strain in the world, because it can infect "anybody" regardless of what natural supplements might claim. Healthy eating and living helps your response against a virus, but unless your system is familiar with it it will take hold until your immune system develops defenses specifically for that strain.

There´s two ways to build immunity to Swine Flu, the first is to get it and survive it, and the second is to get a vaccine. The latter option is more socially responsible.

Let´s say you decide you aren´t going to get a vaccine because you think you are naturally immune to all flu viruses (you´re not), then you come into contact with it on a surface, or someone coughs or sneezes near u and a single flu particle manages to invade and hijack just one of your cells... it will replicate itself hundreds of thousands of times before the cell dies and those new clones will go and find their own cells to clone themselves.

You wont become symptomatic for a few days, but you will be contagious before that... so you cough close to a sick or old person, they get it... they die... you survive... your vaccination could have saved his/her life. Fact!

You will probably never know that person died however, so you won´t have a guilty conscience, but that´s a fact of medical science that people against vaccinations for Swine Flu are totally forgetting.
 
  by: dela     11/05/2009 08:12 PM     
  Thanks, Dela...  
 
...I was having difficulty putting my thoughts on this into words, your last sentence does it well. When there´s no mass illness because of preventative medicine, people say, "Well, I guess we didn´t need it." When a few extreme adverse reactions become public, people say, "OMG, we shouldn´t have done it!" That´s the no-win situation of modern science, I´m afraid - prevent someone before it strikes and no one cares.
 
  by: MomentOfClarity     11/06/2009 04:42 PM     
  @Havoc  
 
It is not normal for a healthy, athletic 15-year-old to be nearly killed by the flu. The vast majority of seasonal flu deaths are among infants, the elderly or people with complicating conditions such as COPD, etc.
 
  by: Ben_Reilly     11/06/2009 05:08 PM     
  (Being) Cured  
 
Desiree Jennings is now recovering.

The diagnosis was likely WRONG. We´ll see what solid evidence, if any, there is/was linking this to the flu vaccine.

Guess who she´s being treated by? A quack Dr. who practices incredibly flimsy medicine at a huge premium, treating the desperate with methods that are unproven and nonsensical. (The North Carolina Medical Board doesn´t like him, apparently).

I hope that the scientific community can get to the bottom of this. Her rate of recovery just doesn´t make any sense and I´m leaning towards psychosomatic.
 
  by: edya   11/07/2009 02:45 PM     
  @dela  
 
"Seasonal flu kills sick and dying people, mostly much older people. Swine Flu HAS confirmed kills of YOUNG HEALTHY PEOPLE with NO PRE-EXISTING MEDICAL CONDITION. Those cases are few, but the H1N1 strain is now confirmed the dominant influenza strain in the world, because it can infect "anybody" regardless of what natural supplements might claim. Healthy eating and living helps your response against a virus, but unless your system is familiar with it it will take hold until your immune system develops defenses specifically for that strain."

LMAO...

kills young and healthy people, yet they stopped testing for swiner flu in many countries and instead label ANY severe case of flu as swine flu.

and no h1n1 (or more specifically the hybrid version we have, not the flu that exist during the spanish flu, like the media used to claim to incite panic in those that know what the spanish flu did) is not the dominant strain in the world, the dominant strain would mean its the most common... ITS NOT, nor is it more likely to kill as the media and governemnt agencies keeps hyping.

a good supply of vitamin D is a better form of prevent AND CURE than ANY vaccine for flu´s, and for most infectious deseased like that... but they´re not allowed to say that as then vitamin would be classified as a drug and made do expense that people simply can´t afford them... OR they will mandate they they must we weakened in potency to the point where you need a handful to get what used to be in a single pill.

"There´s two ways to build immunity to Swine Flu, the first is to get it and survive it, and the second is to get a vaccine. The latter option is more socially responsible."

the latter option is also indictitive of (and partially CAUSE OF) stupidity, "socially responsible" or not... hey if people want neurotoxin injected into them THEY ARE STUPID. no if´s, and´s or but´s about it... its about as intelligent as punching yourself till you start noticing brain damage... by that point your stupid shoices have already irreversibly adversely affected you on a severe neurological level for the rest of your life... i call that stupid, not "responsible".

on the plus side this is sort of like a eugenic program to weed out the sickly, ignorant and stupid... enjoy the shot, sickly, ignorant and stupid people... the rest of us wont be receiving it.

"Let´s say you decide you aren´t going to get a vaccine because you think you are naturally immune to all flu viruses (you´re not), then you come into contact with it on a surface, or someone coughs or sneezes near u and a single flu particle manages to invade and hijack just one of your cells... it will replicate itself hundreds of thousands of times before the cell dies and those new clones will go and find their own cells to clone themselves."

and oy you have ANY idea how i deal with illness... i came out with a creedo for health about a decade ago "if you baby your body, you´ll have a baby´s body" meaning if you treat yourself like your fragile you WILL BECOME fragile i´m not a fragile person, i handle sickness and pain quite well... when i sick, on the rare occassion i get sick, i double up on vitamins (normally i take 1000-1500mg of C, 1000-2500ui of D, and 1-2 multavins)... most illnesses doesn´t have a chance of holding me down very long... thise a a person that fought through double pneumonia asa a kid, something that can quite commonly kill people that get it, esspecially the young or elderly WHY, because they are ALWAYS the most at risk of getting sick, not because the "swine flu" (in quotes because uit not really swine flu, its swine-avian-human flu) picks on the healthy kids, but because kids are ALWAYS at risk... how the hell can people not know that... do you people not remember being kids and being sick... or maybe you guys don´t remember ... copuld be too many injection, or too much flouride or any number of things we use to neurologically poison ourselves and ultimately destroy brains.... and the other half of my "sick regiment" is working out... if you don´t exercise when your sick your body will actually get weaker... several things a persona SHOULD ALWAYS DO when sick is take vitamins, eats nutritious food/beverages and exercise... if not you may well become bed ridden even by a typical flu or cold; "if you baby you body, you´ll have a baby´s body"

"You wont become symptomatic for a few days, but you will be contagious before that... so you cough close to a sick or old person, they get it... they die... you survive... your vaccination could have saved his/her life. Fact!"

you wouldn´t win me over by making me feel sorry for people who barely have an immune system left... when an old person dies of illness thats normal... not tragic... and to be quite honest i don´t give a rats ass about nature weeding out the sickly and weak; if they were already weak they wouldn´t be at risk, and that applies to EVERYONE, and every animal and plant, for any illness
 
  by: HAVOC666     11/07/2009 03:51 PM     
  @dela @ benreilly  
 
"You will probably never know that person died however, so you won´t have a guilty conscience, but that´s a fact of medical science that people against vaccinations for Swine Flu are totally forgetting. "

i wouldn´t feel guilty to begin with, unless of course i did it deliberately... but why would i do that?

no, no-one´s forgetting this that i´m aware of... we all know how vaccine are SUPPOSED to work... they are SUPPOSED to also not be self-damage, but they are... and thats ALSO A SCIENTIFIC FACT... and the vaccine pusher and promoter have to learn to deal with that and cope with the fact they everytime they vaccinate themselves they are quite litterally poisoning themselves for the rest of their life.

does anyone remeber the plague... the black death... ALMOST EVERY PERSON that died from that, died for a very good reason because they were sickly, weak, and unclean... am i supposed to feel guilt that all thoase dumbasses died too, mostly from lack of hygeine and lack of medicine (which these days we call alternative medicine, though in reality the medicine common to our society in infact the real alternative medicine. the ONLY reason modern medicine is as it exists today and not as so called alternative medicine is because it can be patented and profitted from... NOT because its better as so many people ignorantly believe...

in closing don´t try to guilt trip a person that prides himself on logic rather than emotional reactions as most people... the end result will always be a fail.


@benreilly
"It is not normal for a healthy, athletic 15-year-old to be nearly killed by the flu. The vast majority of seasonal flu deaths are among infants, the elderly or people with complicating conditions such as COPD, etc. "

no, its not nomral, but it DOES HAPPEN, nor has it become normal for healthy to die of any illness INCLUDING "swine flu", illnesses ALWAYS kill off the sickly and weak... we may not have perceived him that way, but the fact that he died from ANY flu proves that indeed he was sickly or weak healthy people simply don´t die from the flu, "swine flu" or otherwise..

and agin for probably the 20th time...

the SEASONAL FLU IS MORE DEADLY, MORE LIKELY TO KILL, and has proven this by its track record... but most peiople seem to have their head´s so far up the media and/or government, and/or the/or part of the heathcare industry that all they know is bullshit.

at the VERY LEAST everyone needs to educate before they vaccinate... but if they actually did that they probably wouldn´t be considering vaccination in the first place, because those people would already know better.
 
  by: HAVOC666     11/07/2009 04:12 PM     
  @HAVOC666  
 
------------------------------------------
"LMAO...

kills young and healthy people, yet they stopped testing for swiner flu in many countries and instead label ANY severe case of flu as swine flu."
------------------------------------------

Unfortunately for people who have succumbed to it, it´s not as funny as you seem to find it. The reason health professionals don´t need to lab confirm every case is because Swine Flu has a different onset of symptoms than seasonal flu. It causes bad body aches in each case for example, whereas normal flu only usually causes what we´d see as regular cold and flu symptoms. It is NOT normal seasonal flu and it is not related to it, any good health professional knows what to look for in a patient. Also another clue would be having people in their 20s and 30s, or every single child in a classroom (as they have had in the UK numerous times, and here in Ireland) coming down with it over a couple of days, seasonal flu is nowhere near that fast when it comes to young healthy people.

------------------------------------------
"and no h1n1 (or more specifically the hybrid version we have, not the flu that exist during the spanish flu, like the media used to claim to incite panic in those that know what the spanish flu did) is not the dominant strain in the world, the dominant strain would mean its the most common... ITS NOT, nor is it more likely to kill as the media and governemnt agencies keeps hyping."
------------------------------------------

When did I say it was Spanish Flu? If i mentioned Spanish Flu, or H5N1 bird flu, then it was to point out how lucky we are that the first pandemic of the century is the swine flu strain we are dealing with. H5N1 kills about 60 percent of everyone it infects, regardless of their medical care. There is no point having a machine breathe for you if your lungs are failing...

And as for your claim that it is not the dominant strain...

http://news.health.com/...

http://fora.tv/...

------------------------------------------
"a good supply of vitamin D is a better form of prevent AND CURE than ANY vaccine for flu´s, and for most infectious deseased like that... but they´re not allowed to say that as then vitamin would be classified as a drug and made do expense that people simply can´t afford them... OR they will mandate they they must we weakened in potency to the point where you need a handful to get what used to be in a single pill."
------------------------------------------

Vitamin D can only help your immune system "response" to an attack, which is the same with any other vitamin that acts on immune cells. However, if the system does not recognize a flu particle as a threat, it still will get its time to attack. I´ll give you an example, Micah Richards, professional footballer for Manchester City, who trains daily and eats healthy as club policy requires.. one of the fittest athletes there is, and he was down for a week with Swine Flu. Never gets any other flu. The same thing happened at Sunderland football club, one person brought it in, it went straight through the team, through the staff, even the chairman got it. The whole club grind to a halt for a week. The lesson there is people with very strong systems come down with Swine Flu as easily as sick people who have no immune system left.

continuing...
 
  by: dela     11/07/2009 04:59 PM     
  Edya  
 
What proof do you have for your claims?

You rejected this source that the summary is based on and anything else that was provided from reliable sources. Instead we are supposed to believe scienceblogs? Yeah it was that easy to find, they are even above the actual news sites on google. A blog that is playing in the middle of a pile of shit just like Operation Rescue which sent the email out(yep I read it and saved it). Both sides have an agenda and can not be used as unbiased sources.

Dr. Rashid A. Buttar is treating her according to a "supposed" email from Operation Rescue that Scienceblogs somehow found(that sounds like Fort Hood comments from yesterday which was all over and rumored). Again, two groups with opposing views and agendas not actually giving a damn if Desiree is getting better or not.
Everyone is so busy trying to prove it was the flu shot or that she is a fake and for some reason Johns Hopkins is in on it. What about Desiree? You mentioned the rate of recovery being too fast and I am going to reply to it in a seperate comment.


Both of the groups above are opinion and neither of them comes from her or her real Dr who is in NC.
I don´t see her leaving Johns Hopkins for this guy instead of someone they might refer her to. I might be wrong, but even Scienceblogs have acknowledge that Johns Hopkins was the ones that diagnosed Dystonia. I think I will believe Johns Hopkins over both sites and their "Dr.s"

It is funny though because after this comment "And, making the rounds on various quack discussion forums" part of the email states "Desiree is the Redskin Cheerleader who 10 days after receiving the flu shot became neurologically impaired with a diagnosis of Dystonia.
***John Hopkins as well as another hospital had confirmed this was indeed induced by the flu vaccine she recently received.***
Generation Rescue is the one sending that according to Scienceblogs including the part you said about quack Dr. and the ´supposed´ reversal.
 
  by: TaraB     11/07/2009 05:26 PM     
  @HAVOC666 (2)  
 
------------------------------------------
"the latter option is also indictitive of (and partially CAUSE OF) stupidity, "socially responsible" or not... hey if people want neurotoxin injected into them THEY ARE STUPID. no if´s, and´s or but´s about it... its about as intelligent as punching yourself till you start noticing brain damage... by that point your stupid shoices have already irreversibly adversely affected you on a severe neurological level for the rest of your life... i call that stupid, not "responsible".

on the plus side this is sort of like a eugenic program to weed out the sickly, ignorant and stupid... enjoy the shot, sickly, ignorant and stupid people... the rest of us wont be receiving it."
------------------------------------------

The Swine Flu vaccine is the SAME as a seasonal flu vaccine, the only thing different is the strain. The seasonal flu vaccine has an extremely clean and safe record, even if the media sensationalize stories like Desiree Jennings (who by the way is being treated as a case of psychogenic dystonia because her symptoms aren´t indicative of dystonia - while she has had a doctor confirm she has dystonia, neurologists disagree, her symptoms subside when she is distracted, thats not normal).

The seasonal flu vaccine has been administered millions of times, and reports of reactions are extremely rare in reality, but there is an anti-vaccine lobby that is generally populated by lawyers and people who claim to have had reactions from flu vaccines... all of course with ongoing litigation that is likely to be thrown out of court because it relies on fictional information and hearsay instead of the results of clinical double blind trials, and the story that medical records tell about its safety. Do people have reactions to flu shots? sure, some people... but people also have conditions that give them reactions to light and water. I guess they should sue the sun or the earth.

As for your eugenics comment, this is so typically you. Anyone who disagrees with you is ignorant, even though you declared on this very website that the "Illumati", unprofessional Internet-made mock-up documentary was the "Best Documentary Ever Made" and went on to say how you had learned so much about world history from it. A lot of us don´t go to conspiracy theorists for our information, we rely on evidence, we rely on reality instead of made up myth and crap that has been debunked years ago. So don´t talk about other people as being ignorant, especially since the only reason you are doing it is that you are sitting safely behind your computer screen where you feel safe enough to be foolishly smug.

------------------------------------------
"when i sick, on the rare occassion i get sick, i double up on vitamins (normally i take 1000-1500mg of C, 1000-2500ui of D, and 1-2 multavins)... most illnesses doesn´t have a chance of holding me down very long"
------------------------------------------

Exactly, you double up on vitamins WHEN you are sick to help with fighting it off, they don´t prevent illness, especially not a virus your immune system hasn´t dealt with before. Why do you think ebola is such a threat? It´s a result of deforestation, it escapes from the rain Forrest and inhabits bats in africa, an outbreak is absolutely lethal because when we get it, we have NO immunity to it. The only thing the body can do is drive up fever extremely high to attempt to halt the spread of the infection, and so far the only thing doctors can do is attempt to keep a patient stable while he/she develops their own defenses. Sadly, in almost all cases, the patient dies.

------------------------------------------
"something that can quite commonly kill people that get it, esspecially the young or elderly WHY, because they are ALWAYS the most at risk of getting sick, not because the "swine flu" (in quotes because uit not really swine flu, its swine-avian-human flu) picks on the healthy kids, but because kids are ALWAYS at risk..."
------------------------------------------

Firstly, it´s called Swine Flu because it is traced to pigs, it is genetically predominately a Swine strain, but yes it has genes found in humans and birds, which is common with pigs, they have systems that mix and match disease and the way we hoard pigs together doesn´t help. So again, it´s not a lie, it just got its name in the early days when we knew its most likely source and then when genetics confirmed it was predominately a swine strain. As for your other comments...

If you had pneumonia then you should understand the danger posed by Swine Flu. A number of cases have been fatal because the virus moved from the upper respiratory tract where seasonal flu attacks and moved down into the lungs very quickly.

Continuing...
 
  by: dela     11/07/2009 05:29 PM     
  @HAVOC666 (3)  
 
-----------------------------------------
"not because the "swine flu" (in quotes because uit not really swine flu, its swine-avian-human flu) picks on the healthy kids, but because kids are ALWAYS at risk... how the hell can people not know that... do you people not remember being kids and being sick... or maybe you guys don´t remember ... copuld be too many injection, or too much flouride or any number of things we use to neurologically poison ourselves and ultimately destroy brains.... and the other half of my "sick regiment" is working out... if you don´t exercise when your sick your body will actually get weaker... several things a persona SHOULD ALWAYS DO when sick is take vitamins, eats nutritious food/beverages and exercise... if not you may well become bed ridden even by a typical flu or cold; "if you baby you body, you´ll have a baby´s body"
-----------------------------------------

Interesting how you tried to engineer something there... you said that Swine Flu doesn´t target kids, its just that kids are always sick. Actually the biggest effected group are young and middle-aged healthy adults who do not generally become sick by a seasonal flu strain. Interesting how you left those people out. And as for kids, it is normal for kids to spread illness in school, you can even remember bad flu years where maybe up to 5-10 kids would be out, but in the UK, Ireland and U.S. for sure, entire schools have closed because so many kids have been diagnosed with Swine Flu, and unfortunately, kids here and there have died as a result of the infection, something a vaccine WOULD HAVE PREVENTED.

And btw, exercise while you are sick? That depends on your illness. If you get up and run with a high fever, ro do anything taxing on your heart with a high fever, you are putting yourself in serious risk. The only way to to deal with that is to let it pass. Swine Flu also causes muscle aches, exercising won´t make you feel any better with it.

As for your vitamins comments, its funny how the CDC, WHO etc. all recommend the same thing, yet you don´t attack that recommendation from them.

-----------------------------------------
"you wouldn´t win me over by making me feel sorry for people who barely have an immune system left... when an old person dies of illness thats normal... not tragic... and to be quite honest i don´t give a rats ass about nature weeding out the sickly and weak; if they were already weak they wouldn´t be at risk, and that applies to EVERYONE, and every animal and plant, for any illness"
-----------------------------------------

So I see you have no grandparents to care about or sick parents. Self-centered nonsense. People who have no immune system left include people living with disease who may one day get better. That isn´t just old people, that´s people who have gone through cancer treatments, that´s children, that´s mothers and fathers, sons and daughters.

Let me tell you how I see it. When you are old you won´t be putting yourself up to the culled for the good of society or whatever your ridiculous point is, but as far as I´m concerned, people like my grandparents worked their entire lives to pay taxes and build a society that we enjoy benefit from, including medical science that has extended human life.

Our difference to animals and plants is we are aware of ourselves, we can cure ourselves of diseases that killed billions like it was nothing now. All of that is because of generations passed, I´m sure it makes them all feel so good that people like you will be happy to throw them on the bonfire when the time comes to make yourself feel more like the dominant male.

By the way, I know why you say it like that. You think I´m impressed by your comments? No sir, I´ve dealt with fascists and egomaniacs before, you are no different.
 
  by: dela     11/07/2009 05:47 PM     
  AT: dela  
 
"Unfortunately for people who have succumbed to it, it´s not as funny as you seem to find it."

no what i find funny is the hype and the level of tupidity and ignorance about things thats are so basic in life.

"The reason health professionals don´t need to lab confirm every case is because Swine Flu has a different onset of symptoms than seasonal flu."

from a LIGHT case of seasonal flu yes... but not severe case which are MORE DEADLY THAN this version of H1N1..

"It is NOT normal seasonal flu and it is not related to it,"

well let me just stup your ignorance right there... as it IS relations to it its 25% human flu... this is exactly the ignorance about the flu and vaccination i`m talking about.

this is not some super flu as its being hyped as.

``When did I say it was Spanish Flu? If i mentioned Spanish Flu``

i never said you said it... i said the MEDIA said it.

Vitamin D can only help your immune system "response" to an attack, which is the same with any other vitamin that acts on immune cells. However, if the system does not recognize a flu particle as a threat, it still will get its time to attack.``

oh bloody hell!... how do you think a HEALTHY immune system developes

``The seasonal flu vaccine has an extremely clean and safe record, even if the media sensationalize stories like Desiree Jennings (who by the way is being treated as a case of psychogenic dystonia because her symptoms aren´t indicative of dystonia - while she has had a doctor confirm she has dystonia, neurologists disagree, her symptoms subside when she is distracted, thats not normal). ``

because most of the adverse reaction are ACCUMULATIVE... not instantious...

bloody hell! they are neuro-toxins, not nerve gas..

``As for your eugenics comment, this is so typically you. Anyone who disagrees with you is ignorant, ``

when people don`t know information, THEY ARE IGNORANT.

``even though you declared on this very website that the "Illumati", unprofessional Internet-made mock-up documentary was the "Best Documentary Ever Made" and went on to say how you had learned so much about world history from it``

because how much history they covered that isn`t covered in textbooks, news coverage about history, or many mainstream documentaries...

so lets see you`ve tried ignorance based on hype, emotional pleas, and not taking previious threads out of context in a vain attempt to prove that you weren`t just spewing ignorance by attempting to discredit me.

``A lot of us don´t go to conspiracy theorists for our information, we rely on evidence, we rely on reality instead of made up myth and crap that has been debunked years ago.``

any good conspiracy theory IS based on evidence otheriwse it couldn`t stand the tests of time as they do. the government and media saying its obsurd is far from a dunking.

``So don´t talk about other people as being ignorant, especially since the only reason you are doing it is that you are sitting safely behind your computer screen where you feel safe enough to be foolishly smug``

do you actually think i`m any differnet is person... i`m not a two face either... i`m brutually blunt to the point of not caring about the feeling of other... information is infitately more important than an emotion response.

``Exactly, you double up on vitamins WHEN you are sick to help with fighting it off, they don´t prevent illness, especially not a virus your immune system hasn´t dealt with before.``

to help MAINTAIN my health and strength my immune system.. and quite simple ... and LOGICAL...and more importantly, ITS WORKS and has no negative side-effect.

``If you had pneumonia then you should understand the danger posed by Swine Flu. A number of cases have been fatal because the virus moved from the upper respiratory tract where seasonal flu attacks and moved down into the lungs very quickly.

If you had pneumonia then you should understand the danger posed by Swine Flu. A number of cases have been fatal because the virus moved from the upper respiratory tract where seasonal flu attacks and moved down into the lungs very quickly.``

maybe it BECAUSE i had just a illness that i understand the need to BUILD the immune system rather than to agument it for something you may not even need, while being posioned by it, and you can deny it a poison all you want but those are medical facts... and that poisoning does have accumulative long term effects... you can deny it all you want it it can`t change the fact that the vaccines and ALL vaccines (aside from ones without ``perservatives`` and adjuvant) are neuro-logically poisonious...

all the ignorance and denial in the world can`t change that..

and people wonder why i don`t like people very much... because even the smart ones (i know you aren`t dumb, so don`t take it the wrong way) are incredibly ignorant.
 
  by: HAVOC666     11/07/2009 06:01 PM     
  @HAVOC666 (4)  
 
------------------------------------------
"i wouldn´t feel guilty to begin with, unless of course i did it deliberately... but why would i do that?"
------------------------------------------

Sorry, I mistook you for someone who gave a damn about other people.

------------------------------------------
"no, no-one´s forgetting this that i´m aware of... we all know how vaccine are SUPPOSED to work... they are SUPPOSED to also not be self-damage, but they are... and thats ALSO A SCIENTIFIC FACT... and the vaccine pusher and promoter have to learn to deal with that and cope with the fact they everytime they vaccinate themselves they are quite litterally poisoning themselves for the rest of their life."
------------------------------------------

Scientific fact huh? Care to cite the research papers on that one? A warning shot to you too, I could cite peer-reviewed studies for you that came to a conclusion that you did, but then I can also show you the response from peers. Its always the same, the research comes form anti-vaccine groups involved in litigation who try to pass it through as evidence at trial. I already got into this exact argument with someone on a different site, so I´m willing to bet the paper you cite to me I´m already aware of... but go ahead... do your best.

------------------------------------------
"does anyone remeber the plague... the black death... ALMOST EVERY PERSON that died from that, died for a very good reason because they were sickly, weak, and unclean... am i supposed to feel guilt that all thoase dumbasses died too, mostly from lack of hygeine and lack of medicine (which these days we call alternative medicine, though in reality the medicine common to our society in infact the real alternative medicine. the ONLY reason modern medicine is as it exists today and not as so called alternative medicine is because it can be patented and profitted from... NOT because its better as so many people ignorantly believe..."
------------------------------------------

No, alternative medicine is "alternative" because it is not medicine. GO ahead, throw it all at me, tell me how Amygdalin cures cancer, or electricity cures HIV... but make sure to cite a non-biased peer-reviewed studies to prove it and don´t ignore contrary evidence OK? Ad for the plague, the people weren´t stupid, they lived in a different time to us. Calling them dumbasses to feel better about yourself? What is your problem?

And once again, everybody is ignorant but you. Little Internet soldier on your crusade, please, you don´t impress me by being a di*k.

------------------------------------------
"in closing don´t try to guilt trip a person that prides himself on logic rather than emotional reactions as most people... the end result will always be a fail."
------------------------------------------

I could care less whether you get a vaccine or not, I just care about the people who might die from your misinformation. So you "pride" yourself on "logic", but you are as anti-Science as a creationist, you ignore evidence, you believe illogical conspiracies that could never happen are true, you get your information from Internet phony documentaries instead of research, etc. you are as logical as a parrot, just reciting nonsense for your overlords.

Meanwhile, I´ll stick to judging by the actual facts, the proof, the evidence. I won´t close my eyes and scream "BLAH BLAH BLAH, I CANT HEAR YOU" when someone has a different opinion to me, and I sure as hell won´t call everyone else ignorant but me when in reality this is just a personal exchange of conflicting views that have little or no relevance whatsoever, nobody will see these comments only a few big ShortNews users, its pathetic in fact that I have spent so much time replying to somebody with so much misplaced pride, and a such a large ego, that he has to hijack a small news blurb site for his own agenda.
 
  by: dela     11/07/2009 06:14 PM     
  AT:dela  
 
``you said that Swine Flu doesn´t target kids, its just that kids are always sick.``

are you even reading what i`m typing... is there a point to contining a conversion if you can`t understand it...

i said kids and elederly a few time in my post, quit cherry picking (other people might actually notice this to) are ALWAYS an at risk group ... AND THEY ARE.... thats a facts.

``for sure, entire schools have closed because so many kids have been diagnosed with Swine Flu,``

no they been diagnosed with FLU... they stopped testing MONTHS AGO abad case of seasonal flu is now called `swine flu` thats to the ignorance of society and the hype of the media and irresponsible of the CDC (and equivelent groups in other coutnries)

``and unfortunately, kids here and there have died as a result of the infection,``

as with seasonal flu...

``something a vaccine WOULD HAVE PREVENTED.``

*CAN* prevent, doesn`t always, and often does make people sick, sometimes for over a week, i work with an aremian lady that got the flu shot and had to take over a week off work as a result.... and does have VERY SERIOUS long term conseqeuences due to the neuro-toxin accumulation for vaccines through a lifetime (not usually ferom a single shot).

``And btw, exercise while you are sick? That depends on your illness. If you get up and run with a high fever, ro do anything taxing on your heart with a high fever, you are putting yourself in serious risk. The only way to to deal with that is to let it pass. Swine Flu also causes muscle aches, exercising won´t make you feel any better with it.``

yes i absolutely work out when i``m sick if i can phyiscally get out of bed i exercise when i`m sick, ironically i execise more seriously when i`m sick then when i`m healthy.

and YES it does make me feel better... perhaps you might try it, it might work for you too.

inactivity also casues muscle aches.. esspecially when your body is in a weakened state.

``As for your vitamins comments, its funny how the CDC, WHO etc. all recommend the same thing, yet you don´t attack that recommendation from them.``

if they recommend vitamins why would i attack them for it... my artguament is based on logic not emotion remember... you`ve on several occassions in your post resorted to emotional pleas in a logical arguemet, they simply have no merit... logic on the other hand is never without merit.

``So I see you have no grandparents to care about or sick parents. Self-centered nonsense.``

nope 3 strokes and a fall, my fathers usually in good health as far as illness goes, my mother not so much, but thats here own fault, and i have told her that several times that it a result of an unhealthy inactive lifestyle...

i don`t hold my elders in my family as `gods` they are just people, i just happened to be directly related to them, i suppose that`s a consecquence having a logically bound life, rather than an emotionally bound life...

i don`t have kids, but if i did if they got sick, they get sick, i`ll do my best to get them better using everything i know to do it, i certianly would never get them flu shot of any kind... knowing what i know thats just irresponsible.

``Let me tell you how I see it. When you are old you won´t be putting yourself up to the culled for the good of society or whatever your ridiculous point is``

i really don`t care how you see it at every turn in the conversation you`ve demostrated incredible ignorance... thats like me taking business advice from bush jr... it would be utterly foolish.

hopefully i would be as unhealth in my old age as most people as a result of my life choices

and yes you might live longer... but not healthier... atleast not in terms of mental health... whats the point of having a functional body without a functional mind... thats not a life i would want... thats no life at all.

``Our difference to animals and plants is we are aware of ourselves,``

LMAO... no thats a similarily all animals and at least most plant are aware and even communicate.

`` we can cure ourselves of diseases that killed billions like it was nothing now.``

we did they long before modern medicine... modern medicine ONLY emulates what happens in nature already, the reason for this is profit... always has been.

and as a result mental health is falling dramically, and old age mental disorder or occuring much much earlies even in their 20`s.

``´m sure it makes them all feel so good that people like you will be happy to throw them on the bonfire when the time comes to make yourself feel more like the dominant male.```

i`m niot throwing no-one anywhere... if you want ot inject a cocktails of neuro-toxins into your body go for... just don`t expect any sympathy from me when you have severe mental disorders as a result... you want get nor nor will you deserve any, nor will anyone else that makes those choices.

 
  by: HAVOC666     11/07/2009 06:33 PM     
  AT: dela (continued)  
 
``By the way, I know why you say it like that. You think I´m impressed by your comments? No sir, I´ve dealt with fascists and egomaniacs before, you are no different``

LMAO... more ignorance... no i don`t care if your impressed or not, nor anyone else for that matter, i`m not here to make friends or impress people, i`m here only for information and informing others anyone that doesn`t fit that criteria is useless to me... truth be told i couldn`t care less if most people are alive or dead for that reason... facist and egomanic are words to describe me... indifference on the other hand suits me just right in most cases... but esspecially when the people involved exhibit ignorance or stupidity, or a slew of other negative traits.

``Sorry, I mistook you for someone who gave a damn about other people.``

give me one good reason to care about stupid or ignorant people... *cue jeopardy music*

``Scientific fact huh? Care to cite the research papers on that one?```

quite being such and ignorant douche... and just look up the ingredients and their biological effects.

``No, alternative medicine is "alternative" because it is not medicine.``

again quit being such an ignorant douche... alternative medicine is in most cases better... it just can`t be patent and sold for exorbant profit... do some bloody research.

``tell me how Amygdalin cures cancer,``

i never said it does... hyperbaric chamber treatments on the other hand do... but they are not allowed to advertise that because its ILLEGAL to say you can cure an disease by such means... cheerios has a similiar heinous act going on agianst them.

``or electricity cures HIV``

again i never said it did...

not every claim of alternative medicine works... but many do.

``Ad for the plague, the people weren´t stupid, they lived in a different time to us. Calling them dumbasses to feel better about yourself? What is your problem?``

they were f**King stupid... they didn`t wash themselves because they didn`t want to remove ``god`s dirt``... thats just plain stupid.... FOR ANY TIME.

what my problem you`ve spewed ignorance non-stop for 90 minutes... that might be it.

``I could care less whether you get a vaccine or not, I just care about the people who might die from your misinformation.``

bullshit... against do some bloody research as i encourage EVERYONE to do.

``So you "pride" yourself on "logic", but you are as anti-Science as a creationist, you ignore evidence,``

like hell i have... i just weigh it and it comes up short... you on the other hand have adamently and openly proclaimed your ignorance on the subject

``you believe illogical conspiracies that could never happen are true,``

like what actually is happening in the medicine profession whether incidentally or by design.
you get your information from Internet phony documentaries instead of research, etc. you are as logical as a parrot, just reciting nonsense for your overlords.``

``you get your information from Internet phony documentaries instead of research, etc. you are as logical as a parrot``

``just reciting nonsense for your overlords.``

please quit your ignorance i swear i`d have hit you out of frustration in person already, you are either vastly ignorant on thsi topic, or i was wrong and you actually are stupid... two thing i cannot tolerate are stupidity and ignorance... both need to be eradicated.

``I won´t close my eyes and scream "BLAH BLAH BLAH, I CANT HEAR YOU" when someone has a different opinion to me,``

thats EXACTLY what you did... you younot even remeber what you wrote...

``and I sure as hell won´t call everyone else ignorant but me when in reality this is just a personal exchange of conflicting views that have little or no relevance whatsoever,``

thats one of many differences between us, when i see ignorance i call it out, i douldn`t care less if people get offended by the truth.

`` nobody will see these comments only a few big ShortNews users,``

i don`t much care... i`m not an attention whore.

`` its pathetic in fact that I have spent so much time replying to somebody...``

in this particular case that might well be true... you have no interest in learning anything on the subject only denying it and repeating the government and media hype.


so if you have nothing further AND LOGICAL to add i don`t see a point to this converstion continuing... atleast until you actually trying and get some facts about vaccines... and for that matter just about every topic you`ve mention since commenting to me; alternative (natural) medicine, the plague, susceptibility to illness...ect
 
  by: HAVOC666     11/07/2009 07:01 PM     
  Fearmongering and recovery rates  
 
Desiree Jennings is suffering from Dystonia according to Johns Hopkins Dr.s it is caused from getting a flu vaccination in August. Just because the CDC hasn´t accepted this yet means nothing really. How can I say this?!?

AIDS in the 1980´s. One of the worst times of the CDC and the rest of the government denials and flat out lies. First with denials and once they realised it wasn´t a few people here and there that they claimed it was something else, that it was only Gays that got it and you could get it from anything, don´t believe me? Let´s see what was said about it, shall we?

http://www.virusmyth.com/...
"That toll still makes AIDS a horrific tragedy, of course, but the disease never caused the widespread plague prophesied by so many activists, journalists and researchers. In their zeal for attention and money, they didn´t let facts interfere with fearmongering, and not many public officials had Dr. Joseph´s courage to stand up to them. The campaign began on the cover of Life magazine in 1985: "Now No One Is Safe From AIDS." Federal officials said that AIDS could be worse than the black plague, and they conducted national television, radio and direct-mail campaigns aimed at heterosexuals. The officials wildly overestimated the number of AIDS cases, although they were more conservative than Oprah Winfrey, who warned that a fifth of heterosexuals could be dead by 1990.

Masters and Johnson warned that AIDS could lurk on toilet seats. A sex therapist, Helen Singer Kaplan, wrote a book, "The Real Truth About Women and AIDS," warning that condoms weren´t enough and that even kissing was a risk. Magic Johnson´s illness in 1991 was presented as the proof that H.I.V., the virus that causes AIDS, was finally breaking out into the heterosexual population."

The point of this is that when AIDS fist came out the Government and "Celebrity advice" was running full speed with so much misinformation, for such a long time that people are STILL scared and many still believe the lies and mistruths.
FEARMONGERING, ALL OF IT! This is what has happened with H1N1 and that is a FACT, one that we have seen here and on both ´sides´ of the issue.

Back to the healing>Oh she can´t be recovering that fast, she had to be faking it! There is no way in hell this young lady could pull that off, if she did she needs to win every award there is for acting. It is real and if she is healing at a steady pace that is great! It doesn´t mean she has fake anything at all, and I don´t understand the anger towards a person that got sick from a vaccination when we all know there are side-effects and some that we never saw before, WE ALL sign a sheet stating that at time of the vaccination.
Many medical conditions have a ´timeline´ to heal for best results, we all know about the golden hour, it is the same thing. My Right leg has permanent and chronic damage because the didn´t do surgery in 6 months, now as it gets worse there isn´t anything to do to bring the feeling back to it. Reading what I have about Dystonia this is the same type of thing with how much she recovers within a certain will be important, and God love her if she is healing, the time frame of it doesn´t matter. You can pick any condition and someone can name a disease or disorder that someone made a miraculous recovery, why isn´t this a good thing?

We should be glad that she is getting better because that means we can study her case and know what to do next time someone else gets this reaction. The CDC will never accept the diagnosis from Johns Hopkins and they are already "specialists" claim they know what is causing this and it wasn´t the vaccine it was the psycosomatic since the treatment, which is the same treatment they give to others with Dystonia, is working which is what we should all want to see.

All this talk about facts, there are a few that people might not like but it´s still there.
#1 Desiree Jennings had an adverse reaction to the Seasonal Vaccine.
#2 She was diagnosed with Dystonia but Dr.´s at Johns Hopkins.
#3 This was confirmed by Dr.´s at Johns Hopkins.
#4 According to reports Desiree is reacting well to treatment.
#5 CDC is not saying it was caused by the vaccine.(My guess is to avoid panic,too late)
#6 The media and each side of this debate has done little good,all they are doing is causing more fear and panic.
#7 Everyone who gets h1n1 will not die, this includs children.

Last thing for this post is it doesn´t matter which side of the debate you choose to take or listen to it is your duty to do the research and come up with the decision you feel is best for you and your family. Research and then research some more.

Instead we unleash over dramatic crap like the FACT if you don´t get the vaccine you die, let´s be reasonable.
 
  by: TaraB     11/07/2009 07:01 PM     
  @HAVOC666  
 
------------------------------------------
"no what i find funny is the hype and the level of tupidity and ignorance about things thats are so basic in life."
------------------------------------------

No your "LMAO" came in response to me trying to make you understand the difference between seasonal flu and this H1N1 strain. It is FACT that H1N1 has killed young healthy people, it is NOT contested by anybody (when they die btw, it will be lab confirmed as death as a result of Swine Flu, its not misdiagnosis) and it has happened to people who were very young, in their 20s for example. Your "LMAO" comment came as a response to that, don´t re-write history just because your "documentaries" do.

------------------------------------------
"from a LIGHT case of seasonal flu yes... but not severe case which are MORE DEADLY THAN this version of H1N1.."
------------------------------------------

You are just clutching at straws now, but for the umpteenth time, seasonal flu does not kill young healthy people, Swine Flu has, even if it is in small numbers, it still has. If you attributed all of these cases, or even half of them to "severe seasonal flu", it would be the strangest flu season for decades. Swine Flu presents differently, it presents immediately, it doesn´t start with a small sore throat and an urge to cough and a growing headache like normal flu. Patients report being hit with symptoms suddenly, from feeling perfectly fine to being in bed within an hour. That´s NOT seasonal flu, that is a much more agressive attack and it is because.. as I tried to explain to you so many times... there is a lack of familiarity in the immune system, the body has to build its defenses designed for this strain, and that can take days to do.

------------------------------------------
"well let me just stup your ignorance right there... as it IS relations to it its 25% human flu... this is exactly the ignorance about the flu and vaccination i`m talking about."
------------------------------------------

That was your response to me saying it is not related to seasonal flu strains? Just because it has 25% genes associated with flu found in humans doesn´t mean it is the same as seasonal flu at all. You say that is ignorance? Hey, mice share 85% of their genes with humans, fruit flies share 60% and a banana shares 50% of their genes with humans... so how come I can´t fly, squeeze through tiny gaps and peal myself? Please!

------------------------------------------
"oh bloody hell!... how do you think a HEALTHY immune system developes"
------------------------------------------

Again, I never said that vitamins and supplements don´t help to build defenses, they are good for production of immune cells, but... once again... your immune system works on the basis of familiarity, we are an evolved species, this works exactly as it would if we evolved among pathogens. We are invaded daily by viruses we come into contact with and pathogens but thankfully, we have inherited immunity from past generations to most of the common bacteria etc. that we come into contact with. But when we come up against something where there is little or no immediate immunity, we have to wait for our immune system to develop its own response to a disease... this is WELL understood... it takes up to five days before your body will be flooded by your own produced defenses that will seek out and destroy flu particles (and your immune system will also terminate infected cells, this unfortunately is what kills a lot of H5N1 victims, the strain is so virulent and spreads so quickly that the immune system can literally put holes in your lungs by responding).

So I agree that healthy eating is a good form of defense to any illness, but it will NOT prevent a virus from taking hole that it is NOT aware of.

------------------------------------------
"because most of the adverse reaction are ACCUMULATIVE... not instantious...

bloody hell! they are neuro-toxins, not nerve gas.."
------------------------------------------

Do you eat fish? Do you drink water? You have ingested more heavy metals and toxic substances than you´ll ever get from vaccines. The safety record, wherever it is examines, is on the side of the seasonal flu vaccine everywhere it is administered.

------------------------------------------
"when people don`t know information, THEY ARE IGNORANT."
------------------------------------------

OK Professor.

------------------------------------------
"because how much history they covered that isn`t covered in textbooks, news coverage about history, or many mainstream documentaries...

so lets see you`ve tried ignorance based on hype, emotional pleas, and not taking previious threads out of context in a vain attempt to prove that you weren`t just spewing ignorance by attempting to discredit me."
------------------------------------------

To any onlookers -->

http://www.shortnews.com/...
 
  by: dela     11/07/2009 07:06 PM     
  @HAVOC666(2)  
 
link was broken there...

http://www.shortnews.org/...

I´m not taking anything out of context. This is how you admit you got your knowledge of history on the thread. You admit it yourself.

----------------------------------------
"any good conspiracy theory IS based on evidence otheriwse it couldn`t stand the tests of time as they do. the government and media saying its obsurd is far from a dunking."
----------------------------------------

Wrong again. If it is backed by evidence then independent inquiries will back it up, but in almost every single case (JFK, Pearl Harbor, 9/11 etc.) any unbiased independent inquiry carried out by experts in the related fields dismisses the conspiracies.. that´s why they remain conspiracy "theories", the word theory in use for conspiracy does now have the same meaning as the Scientific context of the word.

----------------------------------------
"do you actually think i`m any differnet is person... i`m not a two face either... i`m brutually blunt to the point of not caring about the feeling of other... information is infitately more important than an emotion response."
----------------------------------------

I agree that information is vitally important, but without emotional response human beings would never have survived this long. Again, you are not impressing me, and for the record, you are dodging the vast majority of my points because you have no response. The only person being misleading here is you.

----------------------------------------
"to help MAINTAIN my health and strength my immune system.. and quite simple ... and LOGICAL...and more importantly, ITS WORKS and has no negative side-effect."
----------------------------------------

Wow. There is such a thing as overdose of Vitamin D, don´t get confused by the word "vitamin" (VITAl MINeral), or "supplement", anything in enough dose is toxic to humans, even water, even oxygen is remarkably toxic even in the doses we get it in. One person died in the United States of overdose to Vitamin D in 2004, that´s not exactly an epidemic, but to say that loading up on vitamins is always good for you is wrong. Esp. if you apply that to Vitamin A, which has been removed from many supplements because of the thinning effect it has on bones in excess doses. Moderation is always the key, we are after all a delicate balance of chemicals.

----------------------------------------
"maybe it BECAUSE i had just a illness that i understand the need to BUILD the immune system rather than to agument it for something you may not even need, while being posioned by it, and you can deny it a poison all you want but those are medical facts... and that poisoning does have accumulative long term effects... you can deny it all you want it it can`t change the fact that the vaccines and ALL vaccines (aside from ones without ``perservatives`` and adjuvant) are neuro-logically poisonious..."
----------------------------------------

I guess you are mainly referring to their Mercury content, which is so low (if even present) that eating fish would be suicide if your anti-vaccine claims were true. And drinking water (including bottled water) contains heavy metal and other toxic substances that can have a negative effect on the brain too.

----------------------------------------
"and people wonder why i don`t like people very much... because even the smart ones (i know you aren`t dumb, so don`t take it the wrong way) are incredibly ignorant."
----------------------------------------

Everyone has their own thing that they are good at. President Obama is a smart guy in terms of the law but I wouldn´t trust him to wire my house, do my plumbing or teach me piano lessons. That doesn´t mean I have to excessively describe him as ignorant...

continuing...
 
  by: dela     11/07/2009 07:23 PM     
  AT: dela  
 
``No your "LMAO" came in response to me trying to make you understand the difference between seasonal flu and this H1N1 strain. It is FACT that H1N1 has killed young healthy people, it is NOT contested by anybody (when they die btw, it will be lab confirmed as death as a result of Swine Flu, its not misdiagnosis) and it has happened to people who were very young, in their 20s for example. Your "LMAO" comment came as a response to that, don´t re-write history just because your "documentaries" do.``

dela, grow a brain, or use it, which ever applies to you...

i was laughing at your ignorance... and i made that very clear

as did i that healthy young people also die from seasonal flu, i just doen`t get the same media treatment.

as i said about the doumentaries that cover history that most people aren`t even awre of simily for the fact the gocernment, schools sysytem and media don`t say it so many people ignorantly believe it doesn`t happen.

"Do you eat fish? Do you drink water? You have ingested more heavy metals and toxic substances than you´ll ever get from vaccines. The safety record, wherever it is examines, is on the side of the seasonal flu vaccine everywhere it is administered."

yes i do eat fish, and yes i do know its got ethyl-mercury in it, thats one reason i donèt eat it daily despite it being the best type of meat you can possibly eat.

i however require food... i donèt require vaccination from the flu.. not many things that i was vaccinated for before i understood the dangers of vaccines, you clearly havenèt got to that point and have even outright denied it.

"OK Professor."

another LOL moment... that actually is a nickname that was given to me by a coworker, though that was from discussions of economics and politics.

others have some up with the name "book of useless information" for my sharing of information that most people dont care about, or often dont even know about (hence ignorance).

so again in failure of logically meeting my arguements on any level youve resorted to emotional pleas, hypes and attempts at ridicule...

i how your not this bad at your job, whatever that might be.


so like i said if you have noting logical to ad thsi SHOULD be about the end of our discussion like, as youve said ive wastes plenty of time doing so, which wouldnt bother me so much had you learned something... rather than deliberately being an ignoramous about it... its not like your incapable of researching about this you just have no inclination to do so.
 
  by: HAVOC666     11/07/2009 07:30 PM     
  @dela (final reply)  
 
since you have no intention of learning anything on the subject and no intention of stopping the spewing of ignorance ièll just let you continuing... just know that from hence forth your talking to yourself in this thread... perhaps you can PM IF and WHEN you do some research and want to continue a discussion under logic rather than ignorance...

as morpheus said in the matrix "i can only show you the door, your the one that has to walk through it"
 
  by: HAVOC666     11/07/2009 07:36 PM     
  Seems she´s getting better..  
   
  by: Kaleid   11/07/2009 07:40 PM     
  @HAVOC666 (3)  
 
------------------------------------------
"are you even reading what i`m typing... is there a point to contining a conversion if you can`t understand it...

i said kids and elederly a few time in my post, quit cherry picking (other people might actually notice this to) are ALWAYS an at risk group ... AND THEY ARE.... thats a facts."
------------------------------------------

I´m cherry picking? You didn´t respond to most of what I said, and for the record, here are your own words...

"not because the "swine flu" (in quotes because uit not really swine flu, its swine-avian-human flu) picks on the healthy kids, but because kids are ALWAYS at risk... how the hell can people not know that... do you people not remember being kids and being sick... or maybe you guys don´t remember ..."

You dismissed the evidence-backed assertion that Swine Flu is in fact striking roughly at children and said it was because they are always at risk, and went on to ask if we don´t remember being sick as kids. And further for the record, I pointed out that you focused on kids because you had no explanation for young and middle aged adults who are turning up to their doctors in record numbers because of flu. If you don´t have a reply for something, that´s fine, but don´t try to make it look like I´m cheery picking or misunderstanding, in case you didn´t notice I try to reply to everything you say.

------------------------------------------
"no they been diagnosed with FLU... they stopped testing MONTHS AGO abad case of seasonal flu is now called `swine flu` thats to the ignorance of society and the hype of the media and irresponsible of the CDC (and equivelent groups in other coutnries)"
------------------------------------------

Seasonal flu does NOT cause school shut downs because so many kids are out sick there is no point in opening. Especially not in the United States, or the UK or Europe. The diagnosis is given based on the symptoms and how they presented, which is differently to seasonal flu. Again you are clutching at straws, the only thing you can do is speculate that somehow the qualified physicians that are treating these kids are ALL wrong.

------------------------------------------
"as with seasonal flu..."
------------------------------------------

How many kids have died from seasonal flu this year?

------------------------------------------
"*CAN* prevent, doesn`t always, and often does make people sick, sometimes for over a week, i work with an aremian lady that got the flu shot and had to take over a week off work as a result.... and does have VERY SERIOUS long term conseqeuences due to the neuro-toxin accumulation for vaccines through a lifetime (not usually ferom a single shot)."
------------------------------------------

Funny how a guy who claims to base everything on logic and information would think there is weight to anecdote. Always seems to be the case... "I know somebody who this and that, blah blah blah".

------------------------------------------
"yes i absolutely work out when i``m sick if i can phyiscally get out of bed i exercise when i`m sick, ironically i execise more seriously when i`m sick then when i`m healthy.

and YES it does make me feel better... perhaps you might try it, it might work for you too.

inactivity also casues muscle aches.. esspecially when your body is in a weakened state."
------------------------------------------

When you are sick, you might feel like you are doing nothing, but that´s not the case. Especially with a flu infection or similar, your heart races to pump up a fever to slow down the infection, your immune system rapidly develops countermeasures when it has succeeded in doing so, your brain activity sky rockets (that´s why you have such vivid dreams with flu), you burn off far more calories lying down sick than you would on an average day, that´s why you sweat, why you stink of.. well... human. Again, your points is relative to the illness, I don´t get flu very often so I don´t know how exercise would help me (last time was 2004 and it was very mild, gone in 2-3 days, before then it must have been around year 2000). Or if you had cancer and you weren´t incapable of doing so, exercise can really boost chances of survival.

But anyway, my point was if you have a high fever, that means your whole body is heating up to fight off infection, if you drive up the heat further you are putting yourself at risk. A high temperature can be extremely dangerous. So I´m not saying you are wrong, I just think it depends on the illness.

------------------------------------------
"if they recommend vitamins why would i attack them for it... my artguament is based on logic not emotion remember... you`ve on several occassions in your post resorted to emotional pleas in a logical arguemet, they simply have no merit... logic on the other hand is never without merit."
------------------------------------------

continuing...
 
  by: dela     11/07/2009 07:41 PM     
  @HAVOC666 (3)  
 
So, show me this appeal to emotion. Was it when I showed the consequences of large numbers of people deciding not to get vaccinated from a social point of view (we are, after all, a social species)? Or when I attacked you for showing that you don´t care if sick or old people die, I think you called people dumbasses for not having the information they needed to survive the black death. I don´t need to appeal to emotion _at all_ with you, because you don´t deal in facts or evidence, you deal with anecdote and assertion, and the fact that you keep avoiding my points and can´t come up with anything to reply to the vast majority of what I say, show you have not done any of your own research on this issue. Once again, you did what you did with the illuminati documentaries that you called "The best documentary ever made", you heard it, you repeated it, you didn´t check the literature on it, the controversy surrounding it, you stayed on one side of the fence and throw garbage over it to the other side. Logic? Ye right.

----------------------------------------
"nope 3 strokes and a fall, my fathers usually in good health as far as illness goes, my mother not so much, but thats here own fault, and i have told her that several times that it a result of an unhealthy inactive lifestyle...

i don`t hold my elders in my family as `gods` they are just people, i just happened to be directly related to them, i suppose that`s a consecquence having a logically bound life, rather than an emotionally bound life...

i don`t have kids, but if i did if they got sick, they get sick, i`ll do my best to get them better using everything i know to do it, i certianly would never get them flu shot of any kind... knowing what i know thats just irresponsible."
----------------------------------------

Three of my grandparents are alive. One died from infection resulting from surgery that she couldn´t fight off. I don´t think of them as just people, I owe the fact that I´m alive to the fact that they played a roll in that. They raised my parents in extremely tough times and the first thing they should get is respect. If you can´t scrounge that up, then I´m sorry for you, but I have no problem admitting that I am happy for what they did for me and I know that they EARNED their right to a quiet and easy retirement. Respect for generations past is not mental weakness macho man...

----------------------------------------
"i really don`t care how you see it at every turn in the conversation you`ve demostrated incredible ignorance... thats like me taking business advice from bush jr... it would be utterly foolish."
----------------------------------------

My information comes from Science, mine matches the facts, yours does not. But that´s not surprising with you HAVOC, at every turn I see you spew stuff you learned from Internet documentaries and scary websites (infowars fan? prisonplanet maybe?) as if its the actual fact of history, all of those THOUSANDS of historians got it dead wrong, some kid in his bedroom who spliced together a bunch of crap and called it a documentary is correct? Logic? please!!

----------------------------------------
"LMAO... no thats a similarily all animals and at least most plant are aware and even communicate."
----------------------------------------

Animals and plants have self awareness? It´s getting even worse with you, now you think plants speak to each other.

----------------------------------------
"we did they long before modern medicine... modern medicine ONLY emulates what happens in nature already, the reason for this is profit... always has been."
----------------------------------------

Oh ye those greedy damn capitalists making money like that, how dare they. Straying off the Science again I see.

----------------------------------------
"and as a result mental health is falling dramically, and old age mental disorder or occuring much much earlies even in their 20`s."
----------------------------------------

Source?

----------------------------------------
"i`m niot throwing no-one anywhere... if you want ot inject a cocktails of neuro-toxins into your body go for... just don`t expect any sympathy from me when you have severe mental disorders as a result... you want get nor nor will you deserve any, nor will anyone else that makes those choices."
----------------------------------------

Thanks for the advice, now don´t drink water or eat fish, or breath oxygen.
 
  by: dela     11/07/2009 07:59 PM     
  it is H1N1  
 
Here I thought I was the only one writing long-ass posts the last couple of months. Just a few more FACTS(since everyone else is capping the word I wanted to.)

Scienceblogs, like I said in one of my replies to edya is not a reliable source when it comes to this because they are as bad as they are claiming Operation Rescue is. Both of them are each writing and sending e-mails to further their own agendas. Neither of them really care about Desiree, hell it seems like very few actually care about her unless they can use her to make their argument for their agenda.

Another thing is becoming a huge pet peeve for me is when someone calls it Swine Flu. We are being asked to call it H1N1 because Pig Farmers have seen a drop in prices because so many people think you can get it from eating pork. I think H1N1 is a better thing anyway just like Avian is H5N1.

The CDC will not confirm this case not because she didn´t get it from the vaccination, but there is already enough people are scared of it after this made national news and so many are confusing the Seasonal Flu with H1N1 in Desiree´s case. I am sure someone will want to tell me that isn´t true and the CDC would say something. I will remind them to look at what happened with AIDS and all the MISinformation they gave out for so long that people today still believe the lies, instead thinking the gov´t is lying about it now.

I have seen so many comments made about what will happen to everyone with H1N1 and half of them are full of shit! The only thing that is 100% other than a fever is, you never know what will happen next or not happen at all.

There HAS been schools closed from H1N1, despite what some would like to say. The school my daughters went to last year was closed for a H1N1 outbreak for a week after having 65% of the students one day and 70% the next. The Health Department and the CDC came in because of the high numbers in such a small school. The teachers were told they had to leave when the students did and to grab anything they wanted for the week or it stayed there. It was told to the teachers, several of whom I have a friendship with that the CDC and health department said it was H1N1.

Too much more to get into and enough shit is coming from both sides that you need waders anymore.

Desiree was diagnosed with dystonia caused by a seasonal flu vaccination. This diagnosis came from one of the most respected hospitals in the US, Johns Hopkins, whos Dr.´s have NO reason to risk their reputations along with the hospitals by forging this young womans medical records. They could very well have told her she had Dystonia and end it at that, the reason they didn´t is because with all of her medical records(which we are not privvy to)and what she presented to the Dr.´s led them to the link. Instead of being excited so many went on the defense instantly because it might frighten people already leery about vaccinations. I think that this case should be studied and check other patients with the specific dystonia she has to possibly find how this could cause it and to find out which part of the vaccination ingredients either on its own or when mixed is responsible.

 
  by: TaraB     11/07/2009 10:37 PM     
  @TaraB  
 
I don´t doubt Desiree had something wrong with her, whether it was real or not, I am sure she experienced it, but automatically attributing it to the flu shot is NOT the same thing as diagnosing it. There could be any number of things that caused her this problem, considering this doesn´t generally happen in any frequent manner with the seasonal flu vaccine, and going by the numbers, the seasonal flu shot is remarkably safe.

But Tara a lot of us don´t have a problem with Desiree at all - our problem is how her story is being used. Considering she is now apparently on the road to recovery with what can only be described as a downright quack, I think we can safely discard Dystonia now as what was wrong with her. It just wreaks of suspicion at this point and I hate to have to say it - but I have to.

Anyway, about the name Swine Flu. I actually think H1N1 is more misleading, all the H1N1 refers to is the subtype. H=hemagglutinin, N=neuraminidase, where hemagglutinin binds the flu particle to the cell, and this is what the vaccine intends to build immunity to.

Swine flu is Influenza Type: A. Subtype: H1N1/09. Its actually referred to now not even as H1N1 as its official name, but "Pandemic H1N1/09". The 09 is added because that´s the difference in strain from other A/H1N1 variants, like Spanish flu in 1918. The seasonal flu vaccine also includes hemagglutinin from influenza H3N2 and H1N1 strains.. but that doesn´t mean it is the same thing as the Swine Flu vaccine.

But ye, it doesn´t really matter what its called as long as everyone is talking about the same strain :-)
 
  by: dela     11/07/2009 11:31 PM     
  Dela  
 
I think both sides are using Desiree in this stupid tug-of-war over vaccinations. Most people think I am anti-vaccine because of the strong stances I take like I never had my girls get their 18 month injections until they were 24 months old. I also will not give my daughter the Gardasil vaccination at this time, both reasons are below in a little more detail. I´m not getting into the child vaccination debate, I am just posting my opinion and my personal reasons. I know I´m mean, my kids tell me that daily. :-p

I can´t release much info on the #1 reason because of patients rights. I was in need of some Christmas cash 12 years ago and I picked up a job with a respite agency and I was sent to a family who´s 5 year old had autism. He was a fun and happy kid from all the pictures and videos that they played and he had a little sister. He had gotten his 18 month vaccinations on a Monday after a physical and by Friday he had signs of Autism. Both of his parents were well educated and were making 6 figures, one was even highly educated in medicine so these weren´t some poor people trying to ´scam´ anyone. The government pays his medical care and the respite hours. I had a Dr. argue with me over postponing the 18 month shots to 24 months, I told her what respite company I had worked for and funny thing is she never mentioned anything about a delay again if I decided that. If moving shots from 18 months to 24 could stop a majority of people feeling afraid then why doesn´t the Gov´t change it? It will be easier to tell if a child is autistic and safer to say it isn´t the vaccines. As you read I simply moved the timeframe instead of not giving them, that is because of reason, research, and remedy.

Second one I got in a heated discussion about a few months ago, again, and I still stand my position and that is Gardasil. I am not giving my child the vaccine that has not been out long enough to know what possible side-effects will be showing up other that the usual suspects. I also don´t have to right now since my daughter isn´t sexually active or plans to be for quite some time. When that time does come I will take another look and see what once again is the best for her at that time. Another decision based reason, research, and remedy.


Vaccinations can be a great thing, the problem is we have a public denial of any side effect that pops up because it is going to scare some people, well yeah it scares people without side effect warnings because we have quit trusting our government blindly. I don´t believe the numbers of those claiming autism is a true count, but we will never find out because we were and are too stupid to make simple a 6 month change and allay parents fears, fears that the government has no one but themselves created. The number of actual vaccine reaction is small, but the denials have made parents not want the vaccine, which is another shame because the number of kids who will not be getting vaccinated continue.

It went off track in a way and I apologize, but this is something I am passionate about, I hate someone that just gets a vaccine because a Dr says it is a good idea.
 
  by: TaraB     11/08/2009 01:42 AM     
  @HAVOC666  
 
------------------------------------------
"since you have no intention of learning anything on the subject and no intention of stopping the spewing of ignorance ièll just let you continuing... just know that from hence forth your talking to yourself in this thread... perhaps you can PM IF and WHEN you do some research and want to continue a discussion under logic rather than ignorance...

as morpheus said in the matrix "i can only show you the door, your the one that has to walk through it""
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I´m the one with no intention of learning anything on the subject? Please! I´m not the one who thinks that vitamins and supplements can give you immediate immunity to viruses and other pathogens that your immune system has never encountered before.

I´m not the one who has to suggest that hundreds of thousands of doctors and other University-educated medical professionals are simply misdiagnosing seasonal flu as Swine Flu, and dodging the question of why so many 20-somethings are coming down with Swine Flu symptoms, or top athletes are coming down with Swine Flu symptoms.

I´m not the one ignoring the evidence that has shown Swine Flu as the cause of death in a number of healthy people with no underlying medical condition, or calling people "dumbasses" because they didn´t have the appropriate information to protect themselves from disease.

I´m not the one who has to cry "IGNORANT" any time somebody disagrees with me either. I´m not the one who clearly does not understand the definition of "logic". I´m also not immune to Reason and Rationality like you are, and I´m not nearly as paranoid.

Closing with a quote from the Matrix?

"i can only show you the door, your the one that has to walk through it"

This is proof of what I said about you in a previous dust up about a different subject; you are under the impression that you have secret information that the rest of us don´t have. You get off on the idea. That´s right, in your head, you are Morpheus, but in reality, you are just a guy who makes outlandish claims on a (relatively) small news blurp website and resorts to screaming "IGNORANT" at anybody who dares to challenge you on them. This is the second time you have decided to stop replying to me without providing an answer for the vast majority of what I have said too.
 
  by: dela     11/09/2009 09:36 AM     
  wow  
 
there trying to cure a problem and yet they create one... mark this in the books people cure = problem = new cure
 
  by: BAD   11/10/2009 01:24 AM     
 
 
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