Canada: Several Cases With Bad Reactions to Swine Flu Vaccination
In Canada six people who got a flu shot showed allergic reactions. The World Health Organisation calls this "an unusual number".
Due to the vaccine, these people suffered breathing problems, blood pressures, and swelling of lips, eyes, etc. Although they feel better now, this could have been fatal.
Health officials are now investigating the case to find out what happened exactly, because with most of the vaccines used, there were no bad reactions.
these are all IMMEDIATE biological reactions... not even the result of acculumation of a lifetime, as they been associated with on the neurological level.
and i know many people like to play the denial card and think its safe,... and thats fine... if someone wants to eat/drink or in this case inject themselves with biological/neurological-toxins albeit in small amount, i wont stop them... but i certianly wont have any sympathy for the result of their ignorance, gullibility, and sheer stupidity... infact give them all a mini-darwin award upon death instead of a tombstone.
all give everyone that hasn´t figured it out yet, this allegeric reaction wasn´t caused by the actual vaccine, but some or all of the additiives in it, nor would the often denied neurological effect of the vaccines... or more accurately the additiives in the vaccines.
someone here was even in such a level of denial that they ignorantly labeled me anti-science (me... anti science...LMAO) for not supporting vaccines as they currently exist; with a load of biological and neurological toxins, often called persevatives or adjuvants which aren´t even necessary has they have given out clean vaccine to some politicians around the world; noteably in germany.
preservative free vaccines: http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/ though the vaccine in the link above probably do still contain the adjuvants (as its not mentioned at all), which is the other half the vaccine problem, but atleast its a step in the right direction.
and then there´s this one: http://cnews.canoe.ca/ some vaccines (1.8 million) here in canada are being made without the adjuvant though this version probably still has the perservatives in it (as its also not mentioned in it´s link), not date is mention in the article (instead its in the adress bar), its from november 13th 2009, it also contains h1n1 death statistics (globally and nationally [canada]), and this is an article supportive of the adjuvanted vaccines. and says that kids under the age of 10 cannot be give the adjuvant free vaccine (meaning parents only have a choice between a potentially dangerous vaccine or no vaccine at all).
if i were to get a flu shot it would have to lack both adjuvant and perservatives... otherwise labelling it safe is like labelling a pack of cigarettes safe... safe in that it doesn´t kill you immediately.
hell one person even stupidity said that these additives in vaccines are as dangerous as salt, which isn´t true, at relative same amounts salt is safer, the stupidity part comes into play when you consider that 2600 people die from heart disease in the US alone each day, one such cause is too much salt in their diet which causes high blood pressure or in serious cases of too much (or even too little salt; the same wouldn´t apply to vaccine additives as you can be in perfect health and never have received a vaccine in your life whereas if you never had salt in your diet at all you would die) electrolyte disturbance/inbalance... and some of those people DO die even from the neurological effects of salt even above and beyond the biological effects.
I always shop organic for my vaccines, I want organic vaccines extracted from free-range bacteria with no growth hormones and/or artificial RNA used to speed up their growth process. Now give me a tree so I can start hugging.
Not because people should get it--but because they shouldn´t. WHY has this drug been authorized when so many people are having reactions? And not just flu-like symptoms but SERIOUS MAJOR problems! Thanks for your protection big Gov. Hope you´re comfortable on your fking mattresses stuffed with dollar bills.
Look, if you´re not sick, you don´t need to see the damn doctor. PERIOD. If it aint broke, don´t fix it!
Seriously Havoc-- this is being called out by WHO. Give me a real reference like this more often and I´m not going to argue or deny anything outside of what I´ll admittedly declare as personal speculation. Outside of speculation I will give one fact that these side effects are NOT apparently neurological in nature. These were hypersensitivity reactions mediated by the immune system or a systemic toxic response which as of right now is unidentified. Maybe.. due to a contaminant or a human/manufacturer error. I´m willing to speculate without checking that the ingredients in the vaccine are not exclusive to that particular vaccine-- and that other vaccines of the same make have not been outed like this batch... that is unless this batch was completely new in some shape or form... otherwise I think we would be seeing more than just this batch being recalled.
To instantly attribute these reactions to the adjuvant aka "neurotoxin or your now more broad term biotoxin", when WHO hasn´t even identified the problem is purely speculation and is far removed from scientific thought since you already ruled out the possibility of an overly aggressive immune response due to the actual antigens contained in the vaccine which is possible. Bias has no place in science which is why although I have formed my own opinions about your references in the forums, I can say that I did eventually objectively review the sources that MIS-referenced ´JAMA´ and ´Vaccine´ publications and concluded through other scientific research-- that right now, no significant concerns have been identified, especially considering the benefits over contracting a powerful strain of flu that DOES have the potential to kill. Don´t think so? Come talk to the patients that almost died from it.
I´m going to conclude with an actual JOURNAL reference to demonstrate good scientific form. This journal references that reactions with the PURE immunogenic ARE possible, and have been seen to be more exaggerated due to adjuvant inclusion. By application of this knowledge, it would be unwise to rule out that these reactions were multifaceted in nature until proven otherwise. Luckily the governments you folks don´t trust have taken the trouble to compile the statistics needed to identify poor reactions, and are taking the action necessary to remove and identify the potential danger--- because prior to your previously unbiased beliefs- we don´t care, we don´t think these reactions are at all serious, or potentially fatal... even if it is staring us in the face.
Vex Where are the "so many people (that) are having reactions"? These stories get sensationalized and lead people to believing that there´s something wrong with the vaccine in general.
I find it interesting that a common egg allergy can cause skin inflammation, swelling of eyes and lips, allergic asthma or anaphylactic shock. It´s interesting that these are the same symptoms listed and attributed to the vaccine... which is grown in eggs.
Havoc, No vaccine is 100% safe, they all have risks and they all list those risks on the packaging. People need to weigh the risks and decide for themselves.
i never said THESE reactions were... and as you well know i have posted lengthy links about such toxin, both biological and neurological.
BTW, according to the WHO the intact of mercury and other such toxic elements was deemed safe... its more than apparent safe is a very relative term to them... and thats giving them the benefit of the doubt they aren´t like agencies like the CDC who are influenced from government lobbying, which they probably are, at least to some extent.
but by all means keep listening to what the public officals are saying... its not like they could ever lie, or even merely be ignorant themselves, or have been lied to.
and by all means you get your flu shots. infact anyone that thinks vaccines are as safe as we´re told so go get every vaccine they can think of... oh wont the health care industry boom neurological deteritive illness ... oh wait it has... and more over it happening earlier and earlier and autism has been on the rise to... often being discovered a few days or week after vaccination... they can deny it all they want but there is a correlation, that doesn necessarilly means causation, though it is a very likely answer given neurological disorders on on the rise in an age where were given dozen of vaccination throughout our lives each countianing neurolgical toxins, above and beyond things that are just merely toxic.
and again you are far MORE likely to die from seasonal flu... not that the media ever tells people that or these goverment agencies ever tell you that... are they trying to encite panick for corporate profit? or do they really not know the the seasonal flu is more deadly?, in which case they are just incompetent.
and PS... i´m sick of people saying some talk to a person thats had it... i had double pnuemonia as a kid... i probably went through far worse then they did... and guess want i never complained about it other than having a hard time breathing to the point where the doctor actually had to come to me...
people get sick, its a fact of life, usually if a person dies for any flu or cold, or even pnuenomia its because they were weak in the first place and suspectible to illness... infact thats why people get sick in the first place.... it they died or almost died from h1n1 they would´ve died from the next not previously exposed strain though maybe not the regular seasonal flu as thats just a single generation of mutation from a known flu strain... but said people would have died (or almost died) if they were exposed to say, bird flu... which actually DOES have a high fatality rate in the countries thqt have been unfortunate enough to be exposed to it its death rate in those countries (combined) is about 60% which is a far cry from less than 10%...
infact infact the global CONFIRMED infection is less than 45000, the US alone has 36,000 annual seasonal flu deaths and thats to a familar (albeit a generation of mutation difference) strain; globally its between 250,000-500,000 seasonal flu deaths.
ironically a country (the US) with a 20th (5%) of the global population also has 7-15% of the annual death from it.
i´ll take swine flu more seriously "deadly flu" when it get to lets say triple the seasonal flu deaths... or even infected.... rather than just a SMALL fraction of both.
sounless the seasonal flue statistics are dramatically altered from what they really are (which some people contend as they says thats number was achieve by " A mathematical model was applied to estimate flu-related deaths by using death certificates where the cause of death was listed as respiratory or circulatory disease.", reason being to cause people to be panicked enough to get vaccinated) this h1n1 is really nothing to worry about... at least not any more than the seasonal flu.
This is the SAME flu shot with the SAME ingredients that millions get every year with few side effects. The only difference is that it contains the H1N1 strain. The regular flu shot is 100% safe for all people except those allergic to the ingredients. The same risks can be said for ALL drugs in the world. Also, the Obama family got the SAME shots everyone else gets, before someone brings up those lies again.
"No vaccine is 100% safe, they all have risks and they all list those risks on the packaging. People need to weigh the risks and decide for themselves."
how many tiem have you seen the packaging for vaccines... never in my life have i ever seen the packaging first hand... and the doctors they´ve never told me any of the side effects of any of the vaccines i got before i stop getting them.
how can the average person weigh the risks before they are actually informed about them?
i´m not even so worried about these reactions i´m more concerned about the correlation to long term mental disorders, namely autism in kids and higher rate of mental deterioration... as well as it happening earlier in life than was previously known... but since they can´t prove its the direct cause people tend to simply deny it outright... which is esspecially convienent for the 20 trillion dollar vaccination industry (a small part of the 3/4 of a trillion dollar pharasauetical industry; you the pharmasuetical don´t have their hands in the government and even the media around the world?
we hear alot of people saying these are sensationalized cases, though we don´t nearly as much hear about how h1n1 is being over sensationalized... infact the thing i see being over senationalized by most people lately is the need for the vaccination in the first place, beit the seasonal flu or this h1n1.
It doesn´t matter what makes you sick or kills you from this vaccination, it is the risk. And the difference is that a hell of a lot more people are being influenced to get this shot, thus a higher rate of bad side effects.
...a conspiracy nut or anything even remotely close to that. I suggest reading these with a grain of salt, but here´s some interesting stuff about flu vaccines.
AGAIN I´M NOT A CONSPIRACY NUT. The lawsuit pdf is pretty lulzy, too.
from the swine flu shot, don´t say i didn´t tell you so. of course, a 30 year soft kill will be hard to prove. and of course, you can´t sue the drug companies anyways even if you could prove it. all tied up in a nice little package. they are brilliant as much as they are evil.
"how many tiem have you seen the packaging for vaccines... never in my life have i ever seen the
******************************** "how many tiem have you seen the packaging for vaccines... never in my life have i ever seen
the packaging first hand... and the doctors they´ve never told me any of the side effects of
any of the vaccines i got before i stop getting them."
I have seen the packaging for varying vaccinations . If you want to see the packaging ask them to show you the insert that comes with the medication it really isn´t that hard of a thing to do. I can not in no way believe that the Dr or his assistant never told you of any side effects from the vaccine. EVERY single time my girls, me, my husband and my parent´s have went to the Dr, we were told what the side effects are, special note to those that aren´t the common one which are; always possible ones of nausea, feel lightheaded, dry mouth, constipation, diarrhea, redness at the site of injection and other possible side effects. To get the flu vaccination you have to sign papers saying that tyou understand the risks involved or you as a parent signs on behalf of your children.
"how can the average person weigh the risks before they are actually informed about them?"
Ask to see the inserts or have one copied off of their database before you sign the form(s) that
would be a good place to start. Patients should be proactive and read up on anything they will
be mentioning or think will be mentioned at the visit. If you don´t ask you will neverfindanything else, but packaging first hand... and the doctors they´ve never told me any of the side effects of any of the vaccines i got before i stop getting them."
how can the average person weigh the risks before they are actually informed about them?"
More people probably have adverse reactions to peanuts in a year in any given country.
Vex, flu shots are preventative, it doesn´t do any good to go to the doctor only after you´re sick because then it´s too late. In fact, that´s pretty dangerous advice considering how many afflictions can be worse if not caught early.
". I can not in no way believe that the Dr or his assistant never told you of any side effects from the vaccine."
believe it or not... and that covers many doctors too, no leess than 3 plus however many i received throughout school not a 1 ever mention any side effects, and certianly not whats actually in it... otheriwse i would´ve refuse shots even before middle school... i knew about mercury even in my childhood.
also i´ve never been told of side effects from antibotics (i´m sure there are at least a few, and i only ever even use those unless i absolutely have to, otherwise i usually just let it run its course), or inhalers when i use them back in early childhood... or ritlin when i was on that (nor were my parent told; the doctr was a pillpusher so drugs were his answer for everything despite that they only ever made the problems worse, and i had some pretty harsh side effects for that, nor was the school i was in informed that i was on it; doctors request, i must of look like one really high kid on crack that month or so)... or was i told of any possible side effect from being put under for a root canal and partial tooth extraction (broken root), nor was i informed of anything about freezing on the two occassions i´ve needed it (both different doctors)
i have had a non-stop string of totally incompetent doctors; maybe my standards are too highly but its gotten to the point where i only go to a doctor when i need something prescribed (since i can´t perscribe it to myself), i´ll go in and tell then what i need and what kind of infection i have (doctors HATE this) then eventually after taking up time from people who actually need a thorough analysis as opposed to me a person that could quite litterally self-prescribe and self-medicate if it were for the rediculas control of the pharmasuetical industry and their products.
"Ask to see the inserts or have one copied off of their database before you sign the form(s) that"
this only applied to back when i was younger infact my last vaccine was in 2002 (i was 17) and that would only because i head my head split open that day and wasn´t quite thinking straight, after i was stitch up they reviwed my vaccination record and found i was out of date for tetnis... i´ve had tetnis... you don´t even need a shot for it... but i wasn´t thinking clearly... now that i know more precisely what´s in them i don´t even take the risk.
china is actually taking an intresting natural remedy approach based on eating garlic which has great healing and immune system boosting properties, and thats just one type of food that can be used a a broad preventative or even cure (of course here in the west you can´t say that because then garlic would become a drug), just goes to show a healthly lifesytle is better and safer than lazy, poor eating, vaccinated lifestyle... and provides a much broader protection range than any vaccine likely ever will, not to mention it keeps you strong both in body and mind; both of which come under attack with every vaccination that has perservatives and or adjuvant (i´d be all for even the flu shot if they had them readily available without either or at least one were those things aren´t toxic in one form or another), even if only in small amounts (if you get hit in the head it usually doesn´t have a noticible effect, if you get hit in the head repeatidly throughout life you can expect brain damage, like i´ve been trying to point out for a long time is the effects i´m most concerned about are accumulative; the kind that most people refuse to even consider).
We (in Canada) had this happen in a meningitis vaccination campaign as well (more adverse reactions). I don´t remember reading anything about the cause if it was ever figured out.
It´s hard to tell what´s going on. It´s possibly that Canadians and their health-care workers simply report these more often, perhaps including minor reactions that don´t get reported elsewhere. Or it might be time for the Canadian gov´t to find a new supplier of vaccines.
Sorry that I didn´t reply sooner, I have been busy with preparing and then serving Thnksgiving dinner. Between cooking for the family and helping others have something nice and warm on their plates.
I can attest to the reaction that some people have when you are informed and aware of what you are there for. The first time my neurologist and I met I think he wanted to show me to the door. I showed up with my own copies of my test results and films(more like CDs of them anymore) and was prepared a little more than he was, after that first visit we have a really good relationship and he has been my #1 advocate to have my insurance cover a neurosurgeon since the Detroit Dr refuses because of the distance affecting my back before and after surgery. I want to thank you for explaining about your age of the vaccinations and not having the forms to sign or to print out.
A Dr. that has a prescription for everything and will even ask you what you need is not someone I would go to once I knew. I believe that natural remedies and letting one´s body heal on their own, when possible, is better all aruond. We have been able to see what the misuse of antibiotics is causing, I see antibiotics as the last thing after letting things run their course and still not going away. As for vaccines I think you need to look at each one, what it does and what possible side-effects can occur. If I don´t feel there is a vaccine not on the market long enough to know enough about the long term side-effects(Gardisil) I will not have my children or myself take it. My youngest has h1n1 a few weeks ago and I was truly frightened because there is so much fearmongering and propaganda on both sides of the issue you never know what is actually true or not. I did not go to sleep unless my husband was awake until I knew her fever had not only broke, but stayed at low-grade fever for 24 hours. So if anyone sees me with a short temper when I hear it WILL do this or that and such, it is because I have seen it first hand.
Two other things I wanted to mention were the adjuvant and the Dr.s office explaining the antibiotics or such. The adjuvant they say they were going to use in the US vaccinations but held off because of the controversy and skepticism was an oil and water mixture. They also said that by adding this we could have had up to 3 times the amount of vaccines than we did, and even paid over $700 million for the adjuvants they now have no intention of using.
The Dr.s office not explaining antibiotics really comes down to who they are and who you are. My Dr. know I will not just take anything or give something to my family without knowing enough about the medication. The side-effects that most Dr.s and staff will tell you about is of course the most common like nausea, vomiting, upset stomach, diarrhea and I feel like I just sang the Pepto Bismal song. The time we DO get the full sheet of meds and their side-effects from the smallest thing all the way up to include death in same cases.
Havoc. I was reading your first response and before ever seeing your name, I thought, "Wow what an insane nerd rage. It must be that havoc666 guy." Like I guessed none other. There was no alternate possible guess. Just you and your rants.
Call me out by my name, not "someone here". Once again, you display total and utter disregard for the facts since you rely on ground beliefs dreamed up by doomsayers and conspiracy theorists, or in this case, research groups populated and funded by people who are involved in vaccine-related litigation.
But ye, we´ll do this AGAIN, since YOU are the only who always backs off and resorts to cuss words, ill also include links to our past conversations for anyone interested in why I´d label you "anti-science".
---------------------------------------- "these are all IMMEDIATE biological reactions... not even the result of acculumation of a lifetime, as they been associated with on the neurological level." ----------------------------------------
Cite the research and researchers who have successfully linked the use of ANY of the ingredient in the Swine Flu vaccine (hint: the Swine Flu vaccine is the same as the seasonal flu vaccine just with a different strain of flu) to neurological disorders, and then cite the peer-reviewed journal it was published in and any reference and/or rebuke made to the research by peers in the field. If you can´t do this, then don´t make assertions. If you don´t believe the peer-reviewed method using scientific journals is reliable, then you are in conflict with the very basics of the scientific method itself.
---------------------------------------- "and i know many people like to play the denial card and think its safe,... and thats fine... if someone wants to eat/drink or in this case inject themselves with biological/neurological-toxins albeit in small amount, i wont stop them... but i certianly wont have any sympathy for the result of their ignorance, gullibility, and sheer stupidity... infact give them all a mini-darwin award upon death instead of a tombstone." ----------------------------------------
There is nothing better than an arrogant elitist who sits on a small news site calling other people stupid. As I said to you before, you would need countless vaccines to even get near the dose of Mercury you´d get from eating fish, and the type of Mercury found in fish is far more toxic - yet look at that, there´s no mass hysteria surrounding fish... and that is only if the vaccine actually contains any mercury (such as a multi-jab vaccine). Do you drink alcohol? Put yourself down for a Darwin award based on ur criteria
---------------------------------------- "all give everyone that hasn´t figured it out yet, this allegeric reaction wasn´t caused by the actual vaccine, but some or all of the additiives in it, nor would the often denied neurological effect of the vaccines... or more accurately the additiives in the vaccines." ----------------------------------------
Those "additives" you are referring to are there to protect the patient. The regular vaccine (as opposed to one you take up your nose) contains flu particles that have been "killed" (technically not killed, because they were never alive to begin with) so they cannot cause an infection, and its the introduction of that into your system along with another compound that would provoke an immune response quickly (not always the case) that actually is there for your immune system to work with.
The rest of the ingredients are there to prolong shelf life since vaccines are not exactly easy to make.. take millions of eggs and a long time.. and to kill any bacteria that might make it into the vaccine or might be present on the skin where the needle would be pushed in. People having reactions to vaccines is nothing new, its like injecting anything into yourself, and as you can see with this article, the WHO takes it very seriously if there are a number of incidents close together, such as from the same batch of vaccines. So far pretty much all claims of reactions and other problems with the swine flu vaccine that has been investigation by WHO turned out to be false alarms. That tends to happen when millions of people are getting the same medical treatment, if a number of people fall ill, it causes a scare about the treatment but more often than not, it turns out to be the result of something else completely.
---------------------------------------- "someone here was even in such a level of denial that they ignorantly labeled me anti-science (me... anti science...LMAO) for not supporting vaccines as they currently exist; with a load of biological and neurological toxins, often called persevatives or adjuvants which aren´t even necessary has they have given out clean vaccine to some politicians around the world; noteably in germany." ----------------------------------------
Vaccinating politicians is protocol, they´d be on the front line, therefore they´d get a vaccine not long after production, otherwise you have shelf life to worry about. I´m not sure who got what vaccine but I would be very surprised if you think politicians are any smarter than the rest of us when it comes to medical scienc
Vaccinating politicians is protocol, they´d be on the front line, therefore they´d get a vaccine not long after production, otherwise you have shelf life to worry about. I´m not sure who got what vaccine but I would be very surprised if you think politicians are any smarter than the rest of us when it comes to medical science. If they believe half the crap they can read in the tabloids they probably would demand a vaccine without anything extra in it (not smart since bacteria on their skin can be pushed into the injection site) and get it considering they make the decision on who the vaccine is bought from.
Besides that point, they are on the first line of people likely to be vaccination as most states have protocols to uphold government in the event of any crisis. Otherwise, failure to include ingredients to prolong the shelf life of a vaccine could have terrible consequences medically and economically and you have no idea when the vaccines will actually be used.
---------------------------------------- preservative free vaccines: http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/ though the vaccine in the link above probably do still contain the adjuvants (as its not mentioned at all), which is the other half the vaccine problem, but atleast its a step in the right direction.
and then there´s this one: http://cnews.canoe.ca/ some vaccines (1.8 million) here in canada are being made without the adjuvant though this version probably still has the perservatives in it (as its also not mentioned in it´s link), not date is mention in the article (instead its in the adress bar), its from november 13th 2009, it also contains h1n1 death statistics (globally and nationally [canada]), and this is an article supportive of the adjuvanted vaccines. and says that kids under the age of 10 cannot be give the adjuvant free vaccine (meaning parents only have a choice between a potentially dangerous vaccine or no vaccine at all). ----------------------------------------
http://www.newsweek.com/ (Innoculation Misinformation -> Claims that the swine flu vaccine is dangerous range from overblown to false.)
There is plenty of information in there that is mostly about the Swine Flu vaccine but it contains more information on Thimersol --> which has NEVER been successfully linked to autism or anything similar. The only people left making any such claims are those who could FINANCIALLY BENEFIT from them... and quacks.
---------------------------------------- "if i were to get a flu shot it would have to lack both adjuvant and perservatives... otherwise labelling it safe is like labelling a pack of cigarettes safe... safe in that it doesn´t kill you immediately." ----------------------------------------
You do realize you live in a world dominated by microbes? Even the cleanest of clean rooms, such as where they produce microprocessors, cannot keep microbes away. This is their kindgom. They live all over you regardless of how often you shower. Your mouth itself and your nose are polices by your immune system because you constantly have all kinds of pathogens living on you that you put into your mouth when you eat etc.
If you were jabbed with a flu vaccine, you must realize that the needle itself would be FAR larger at its tip than bacteria or virus particles. These can be injected into your arm or another area of your body where there is no "first line defense", and that´s why measures have to be taken to stop another infection taking hold. People experience violent reactions from contamination, so no I would not take an unprotected vaccine unless it was a life or death situation.
---------------------------------------- "hell one person even stupidity said that these additives in vaccines are as dangerous as salt, which isn´t true, at relative same amounts salt is safer, the stupidity part comes into play when you consider that 2600 people die from heart disease in the US alone each day, one such cause is too much salt in their diet which causes high blood pressure or in serious cases of too much (or even too little salt; the same wouldn´t apply to vaccine additives as you can be in perfect health and never have received a vaccine in your life whereas if you never had salt in your diet at all you would die) electrolyte disturbance/inbalance... and some of those people DO die even from the neurological effects of salt even above and beyond the biological effects." ----------------------------------------
Heart disease is not just a result of salt, its a combination of blood pressure and LDL cholesterol that is the real problem at the center of heart disease, so I think you are being a bit "easily pleased" with your comparison. For salt to drive up your blood pressure you need to consume it in fairly high amounts (unless you have a genetic predisposition to high blood pressure, which i do, so it wouldn´t take as much salt for my blood pressure to rise as it would for yours for example).
The key difference you seem to have totally forgotten is people do not get vaccinated daily. You consume salt daily. That´s why I keep pointing out to you that an average sea-caught fish would be remarkably more toxic than a flu vaccine if you were to compare the toxins, but we eat fish all the time, some of us eat it more than others and we don´t have any major medical emergency over this fact. If you drink water from municipal supplies, then you would be consuming all kinds of contaminants and heavy metals (even rust) on a daily basis that in a side by side comparison would blow a vaccine away even if it had all of the things commonly brought up by people like you; thimersol, squalene, aluminum salts etc.
The research has always come down on the side of vaccine safety and its not due to bias or money because research comes from independent sources, is commissioned by charity or health boards and/or is submitted to a peer-reviewed scientific journal where it is scrutinized and mulled over by experts the world round... and still even with that, the only voices in the field that raise concerns over vaccine safety pretty much ALWAYS are "dirty" - in that they have some way to gain from vaccines being bad - or they are not qualified in the necessary fields at all, they are just perpetuating a myth.
i didn´t rember who said it... not that the name is important... but hell if you want to expose yourself as the ignorant person i was talking about, so beit.
"Once again, you display total and utter disregard for the facts since you rely on ground beliefs dreamed up by doomsayers and conspiracy theorists, or in this case, research groups populated and funded by people who are involved in vaccine-related litigation."
neurologically toxic chemicalselement and compound are just that neurologically toxic... i´m not the person constantly denying that toxic chemicals, compounds and elements aren´t toxic.
"But ye, we´ll do this AGAIN, since YOU are the only who always backs off and resorts to cuss words."
i didn´t back off, i told everyone in there after I almost got banned for lashing out against the collective ignorance and stupidity being displayed in the thread, and worse point it out... since pointing out stupidity and ignorance are unforgiveable sins apparently.
"Cite the research and researchers who have successfully linked the use of ANY of the ingredient in the Swine Flu vaccine"
i already have on no less than a half dozen occassion people like you keep ignoring it... if you want to be ignorant of my efforts at imforming than go inform yourself as i also kept telling people... which they obviously haven´t and still refuse to.
"There is nothing better than an arrogant elitist who sits on a small news site calling other people stupid."
i´m far from an "arrogant elitest" but judging by the people around me, i´m clearly one of those people ahead of the curve... and quite frankly i´m getting really sick of banging my head against a wall of ignorance.
"As I said to you before, you would need countless vaccines to even get near the dose of Mercury you´d get from eating fish, and the type of Mercury found in fish is far more toxic - yet look at that, there´s no mass hysteria surrounding fish."
ANY mercury is actually too much mercury... there is no such thing as a healthy amount of a toxic compound/element. yet they call it safe... they say the same about aspartame and its not safe either... though i´m sure you´d defend the toxicity of that too as "safe".
"Do you drink alcohol?"
rarely and not in the last two years at all.
did almost all of my drinking before i was 19/20 after that it lost all appeal and do anything for me; well nothing positive anyways... nor do i smoke cigarette... why don´t i do either anymore...BECAUSE they are (in common usage; as opposed to actual moderation which doesn´t produce a drunken state, or even a buzz usually) ONLY negative to people health... if people want to poison themselves dgo for it but i do warn people about both of those two.... i´m not picking on vaccines i´m "picking on" the toxicology of certian ingredient... which given an INFORMED debate cannot be denied, nor can it be denied that any toxic compound should be avoided WHEREVER possible; including vaccine, for which they are not ABSOLUTELY needed...
and moreover mercury in fish is heavily the result of industrial pollution which i am VERY vocal about, though not necessary of mercury in particular.
"and its the introduction of that into your system along with another compound that would provoke an immune response quickly (not always the case) that actually is there for your immune system to work with."
or adjuvant for people that know the terminology... which SHOCKS the immune system this shock can stimulate the immune system or it can also severely weaken it, one reason why people can get sick from vaccines (which is also often denied), these adjuavants (and there are several different ones) are also neurologically toxic.
the other additives which are toxic are the chemical/element and compounds used as perservatives which are also USUALLY neurologically toxic, and always overall toxic (bio-toxin)... which as i said aren´t necessary aside from the fact that they make them when there isn´t a need for them and hence can´t have a natural shelf life..
FYI, perservative in general bad for health, ironically sugar is one of the safest perservative and they thats the most under attack perservative (and sweetner) on the market.
"Vaccinating politicians is protocol, they´d be on the front line, therefore they´d get a vaccine not long after production, otherwise you have shelf life to worry about. I´m not sure who got what vaccine but I would be very surprised if you think politicians are any smarter than the rest of us when it comes to medical science"
when it comes to IQ they usually are which would be the noticable effect of many neurologically toxic things, memory and the other primary effect would be increased frequency or severity of mental disorders.
part of that might be from vaccines though that would more apply to at childhood, and of course healthly lifestlye and intellect building education (like math).
only a few point most of your second post is you trying to talk to me like a child and doesn´t aready know these things. and hence not worth a direct reply.
"Heart disease is not just a result of salt, its a combination of blood pressure and..."
salt causes a rise in blood pressure *palm to face*.
and a "high intake" of salt is anything over 2500mg even a liter of apple juice has 1% of that, a single SMALL can of tomato soup has over 40% of that.
MOST people have a high intake of salt (never even mind adding salt to food)... given how the industry has change that is inevitable unless you make and grow most of your own food.
its even openly recommended that to counter the effects of salt have more potassium in your diet asnd always keep hydrated.
what we consider average salt intake now also used to be considered high, but this changed with the food industry, salt now, is in almost everything we eat and many things we drink (above and beyond the normal content in fresh water)
``The key difference you seem to have totally forgotten is people do not get vaccinated daily.``
no i`ve not forgotten.... but i don`t intentionally consume ANY amount highly toxic chemical, compound or element... anything over 0 nanograms is too much; alittle overkill using nanogram but you get my point, or at least i hope so.
BOTTON LINE... i wont be getting vaccine for anything minor (anything short of a vaccine for cancer, or HIV or something genuinely seriously like that that to me would justify the risk) until they make vaccines ACTUALLY safe; safe meaning healthy, as opposed to safe meaning non-lethal... clearly we have different standards on medical safety... and vaccines don`t meet the grade when they have toxic perservatives and-or adjuvants.
if you actually think vaccines are safe and good for health then you get your, and i wont get mine (infact you can have mine too) because i am more then willing to stake my health (or more accurately from my point of view; not stake my health) on vaccination... the way i see it, vaccines for simple things aren`t worth potential (if not likely) risk, and as i`m said many time its not the short term affects which i`m concerned about so much its the long term effects from neurological toxins that i`m concerned about, and you can say their no proof of any impact but notr can you LOGICALLY say there neurolicall toxic elments wont have a neurological effect... its simply not logical to assume such.
any BTW if you want to talk to people like uninformed children at least make sure you`re more informed than the person your talking to.
Once again, you are ignoring most of what I said and inventing straw man claims.
For those that don´t know, a straw man claim is an invented claim. For example...
"i´m not the person constantly denying that toxic chemicals, compounds and elements aren´t toxic." --> this is what HAVOC said back to me, regardless of the fact that I never claimed Mercury is not toxic.
But let me reply anyway...
---------------------------------------- "i didn´t back off, i told everyone in there after I almost got banned for lashing out against the collective ignorance and stupidity being displayed in the thread, and worse point it out... since pointing out stupidity and ignorance are unforgiveable sins apparently." ----------------------------------------
No. Every single time we get into a debate over anything you back off. Every time, without fail. You do so after you fail to answer any of my points. Instead you selectively quote bits of sentences (compared to me replying to every single word you type) and attack little points. You think that people reading your posts will be too lazy to check what I actually said. And by the way you nearly got band because of the bad language you were using, nothing else.
---------------------------------------- "i already have on no less than a half dozen occassion people like you keep ignoring it... if you want to be ignorant of my efforts at imforming than go inform yourself as i also kept telling people... which they obviously haven´t and still refuse to." ----------------------------------------
Then go ahead and cite exactly what I asked for... just to help, I´ll quote it again... in its entirety.
"Cite the research and researchers who have successfully linked the use of ANY of the ingredient in the Swine Flu vaccine (hint: the Swine Flu vaccine is the same as the seasonal flu vaccine just with a different strain of flu) to neurological disorders, and then cite the peer-reviewed journal it was published in and any reference and/or rebuke made to the research by peers in the field. If you can´t do this, then don´t make assertions. If you don´t believe the peer-reviewed method using scientific journals is reliable, then you are in conflict with the very basics of the scientific method itself."
---------------------------------------- "i´m far from an "arrogant elitest" but judging by the people around me, i´m clearly one of those people ahead of the curve... and quite frankly i´m getting really sick of banging my head against a wall of ignorance." ----------------------------------------
I think everybody who comments or contributes to this site should take a note of that comment. And you are the sheer definition of an elitist.
---------------------------------------- "ANY mercury is actually too much mercury... there is no such thing as a healthy amount of a toxic compound/element. yet they call it safe... they say the same about aspartame and its not safe either... though i´m sure you´d defend the toxicity of that too as "safe"." ----------------------------------------
"They", "they" and "they". It´s always "they". The level of Mercury in a vaccine simply is not enough to cause a condition like autism, and the medical records spanning all industrialized nations proves the safety and effectiveness of vaccines, and that´s just the fact that you cannot grasp.
---------------------------------------- "and moreover mercury in fish is heavily the result of industrial pollution which i am VERY vocal about, though not necessary of mercury in particular." ----------------------------------------
It doesn´t matter whether you are vocal about it or not, the fact of the matter is that Mercury is present in a lot of seafood in doses that trounce vaccines yet you are eerily silent on the dangers of eating fish....
---------------------------------------- "or adjuvant for people that know the terminology... which SHOCKS the immune system this shock can stimulate the immune system or it can also severely weaken it, one reason why people can get sick from vaccines (which is also often denied), these adjuavants (and there are several different ones) are also neurologically toxic." ----------------------------------------
It doesn´t "shock" it, it is guaranteed to trigger a response which will boost the effectiveness of the vaccine. Once again, the evidence is on the side of vaccines in safety terms.
------------------------------------------ "when it comes to IQ they usually are which would be the noticable effect of many neurologically toxic things, memory and the other primary effect would be increased frequency or severity of mental disorders.
part of that might be from vaccines though that would more apply to at childhood, and of course healthly lifestlye and intellect building education (like math)." ------------------------------------------
I think you totally misunderstood my point here. Although I would like for you to show me where you discovered that politicians have higher IQs than the general population because I don´t believe that for a second.
I am unsure of what point you are trying to make. Are you trying to say that their "alleged" high IQs are a result of a lack of vaccinations as a child, or are you just rambling? In any case, I challenge you to go ask as many MENSA members as you can how many times they have been vaccinated, I don´t know the results because I have never done it, but I suspicion you´d find they got the same childhood vaccinations as everybody else etc.
---------------------------------------- "only a few point most of your second post is you trying to talk to me like a child and doesn´t aready know these things. and hence not worth a direct reply." ----------------------------------------
Say it like it is, you don´t have a reply because you don´t know what to say. Don´t make alternative excuses Alex Jones! If you assert something, always be prepared to back it up.
---------------------------------------- ""Heart disease is not just a result of salt, its a combination of blood pressure and..."
salt causes a rise in blood pressure *palm to face*." ----------------------------------------
Now why did I include your quote from me with that? Because I wanted to show how you make it "appear" like you have an edge in a debate. You know that I never said that salt DOESN´T cause high blood pressure, it is common knowledge. However, when I went on to comment about my predisposition to high blood pressure, I mentioned that it would take less salt for my blood pressure to be too high than it would for a person without my genes. My point, that you arrogantly tried to turn into a "mistake" by me, was that salt is NOT the only factor in heart disease, I said that it was high blood pressure with the level of LDL cholesterol in a body that is the core problem when it comes to heart disease.... my point was simply that salt is NOT the entire story so your original comparison was B.S.
However instead of simply replying to that, you quote mine me just like your heroes Alex Jones and the rest of the Addams Family and attack something I NEVER implied. Sorry, but I couldn´t let you get away with that bull.
---------------------------------------- "no i`ve not forgotten.... but i don`t intentionally consume ANY amount highly toxic chemical, compound or element... anything over 0 nanograms is too much; alittle overkill using nanogram but you get my point, or at least i hope so." ----------------------------------------
Again, ignoring the point I made. You compared salt to ingredients of a vaccine. You made the comparison, and I simply pointed out a giant hole in your comparison of relative amounts of salt and relative amounts of mercury... people don´t get vaccinated every day.
If you don´t want to use vaccines, that´s your prerogative, but you are here attacking vaccines as these dangerous weapons of death forced on people when in reality the medical science doesn´t support your claims, the evidence doesn´t support your claims and anybody who is truly informed and don´t get their information from folks like Alex Jones (THEY PUT CANCER VIRUSES IN YOUR VACCINES!! *he actually said that*) can see through the claims too. So ye, don´t like vaccines, don´t get it, but don´t try to misinform, which you do ALWAYS on this website. And of course, anybody who dares to stand up to you, you label them ignorant, like the elitist you are. Any point they make that you don´t have an answer for, you simply IGNORE it, or you quote a few words from a point and attack those few words.
---------------------------------------- "BOTTON LINE... i wont be getting vaccine for anything minor (anything short of a vaccine for cancer, or HIV or something genuinely seriously like that that to me would justify the risk) until they make vaccines ACTUALLY safe; safe meaning healthy, as opposed to safe meaning non-lethal... clearly we have different standards on medical safety... and vaccines don`t meet the grade when they have toxic perservatives and-or adjuvants." ----------------------------------------
The safety record of, for example, the seasonal flu vaccine, speaks for itself. Only you won´t actually look at the safety record at all.
Considering what cancer actually is, a vaccine would pretty much be impossible (though you can vaccination against third party causes of cancer, like HPV), whereas HIV is possible but complicated due to the fact that it attacks and thrives on immune cells. So I wouldn´t hold my breath. Vaccines only teach an immune system how to kill something in a safe way (compared to actually being infected). Vaccines are just a method of exposing a person to something without them actually getting sick from it.
Now about what you said here --> "clearly we have different standards on medical safety... and vaccines don`t meet the grade when they have toxic perservatives and-or adjuvants"
Well that´s just out of reality altogether. Modern medicine is amazing, no doubt about it. But really how safe is it? The vast majority of drugs you take, as we all know, can kill you if you take too many, so you take in a controlled dose, but even a controlled dose can make you sick and cause lasting damage, it just usually comes down to a case of the lesser of two evils (cancer & chemo for example). The vast VAST majority of all people who receive, for example, the seasonal flu vaccine, do not get sick from it (perhaps they will get a red inflammation at the injection site for a while) but it is known to happen to extremely rare cases that something can go wrong. Even the WORST CASE for a vaccine for flu hit people on the very tiny sliver of a margin. 1976, the swine flu scare that resulted in a vaccination program in the U.S. led to 25 deaths from GBS. The records show about 500 experienced GBS symptoms (the claims made were in the thousands, but the reality is if you had GBS symptoms you would seek medical attention, only around 500 did).
So 500 people experienced a very bad illness from the vaccine. But how many were actually vaccinated? 40,000,000. ye, that´s 40 million people. That´s 0.00125% of people who received the vaccine. Of all the people who received the vaccine, that would be a 0.0000625% death rate. It is worth also mentioning that no flu vaccine currently administered and since the late 70s has ever been associated with GBS... ever. And that is the worst case for a flu vaccine in history.
Nowadays, the WHO takes reports of vaccine problems VERY seriously, and still recommends that patients with a history of GBS be monitored even though it hasn´t shown up as a result of a flu vaccine since the 70s, not to mention the advancements made in the technology used to produce vaccines in three decades.
All in all, the vast majority of medicine is not safe in the way that you expect vaccines to be safe. If you drink a whole cough bottle, you might die, especially if you are a child... but then again, if you drink a few gallons of water really quick, you will also die. Everything in medicine is "controlled", and the levels of mercury and other contents of vaccines have been scrutinized for decades, by researchers all over the world, by experts who studied medicine, who have experience in the field and the result is... as I´ve said before and I´ll say again... the evidence falls flatly in favor of vaccine safety.
---------------------------------------- "if you actually think vaccines are safe and good for health then you get your, and i wont get mine (infact you can have mine too) because i am more then willing to stake my health (or more accurately from my point of view; not stake my health) on vaccination... the way i see it, vaccines for simple things aren`t worth potential (if not likely) risk, and as i`m said many time its not the short term affects which i`m concerned about so much its the long term effects from neurological toxins that i`m concerned about, and you can say their no proof of any impact but notr can you LOGICALLY say there neurolicall toxic elments wont have a neurological effect... its simply not logical to assume such." ----------------------------------------
Like I said, if you don´t want your vaccine don´t get it. I´ll get mine when I´m offered it by the health service executive here, even though I know from looking at the statistics its VERY unlikely that I will die from Swine Flu. I do it because it is socially responsible. I am often in contact with children in the family, with grandparents, with people who have cancer, people are pregnant etc. and the clear fact is the more people immune to swine flu, the less chance vulnerable people will pick it up.
Now, if you want to talk logically, you cannot ignore my recurring point about seafood, you are taking statistically a higher risk eating seafood than being vaccinated and you could make a point that you are also taking a higher risk just eating food that you did not see prepared with your own eyes. We all know that toxins build up in our systems, its just a fact of life we can´t do much about yet. Then again, we are bombarded from all angles every single day with stuff that is bad for us. We breathe it in from emissions, from household appliances, we are bombarded with radiation from all around us, our breathing of oxygen is keeping us alive but is killing us slowly in a vicious cycle, we come into contact on a daily basis with deadly bacteria (I have a friend in his 30s who got bacterial meningitis due to cuts on his hands.... meningitis... in his 30s) and so on and so forth. Vaccines are really low on the list of things likely to hurt us.
---------------------------------------- "any BTW if you want to talk to people like uninformed children at least make sure you`re more informed than the person your talking to." ----------------------------------------
Oh on this subject I have no problem believing I am more informed than the person I am talking to. But take your words, look in the mirror and repeat. Try not to be such an elitist and maybe then we could have a friendly discussion.
HAVOC ignored quite a lot of what I typed and also decided to help himself to getting out a scalpel and cutting away whatever he didn´t like and attacking me based on the words that are left.... A side by side comparison to what he replied to showed that clearly.
However, since he uploaded two news sources which I read and thus decided to respond with a 6 page article put together by newsweek with the co-operation of medical experts (as in not people who sit on a site like this arguing over vaccines, like myself and HAVOC, but people who actually "are" experts in the field) to counter the growing misinformation being spread by anti-vaccine sources that he decided simply to ignore....
``NO. Every single time we get into a debate over anything you back off. Every time, without fail.``
no you MORON (sorry admin but i hate stupiity and ignorance esspecially when done intentionally), me getting sick of being a broken record player for your ilk and being being threated for being banned for pointing out the stupidity and ignroance is why i left that can all my efforts are worthless to most of you people.
`` You do so after you fail to answer any of my points. Instead you selectively quote bits of sentences (compared to me replying to every single word you type) and attack little points.``
most all of the point i didn;`t reply to aren`t worth a reply and much more of this and you wont be worth replying to at all (like COG).
``You think that people reading your posts will be too lazy to check what I actually said. And by the way you nearly got band because of the bad language you were using, nothing else.``
oh my bad i said panzy too for peopel that THINK they NEED a flu shot... and btw i stand by that.
``Then go ahead and cite exactly what I asked for... just to help, I´ll quote it again... in its entirety`
i already posted the ingredient informations NUMBEROUS times if thats not good enough for you tough shit, do your own research your not a child and i`m not your mommy and daddy so don`t expect me to do EVERYTHING for you... i`m here for INTELLEIGENT discussion and news... NOT YOU.
``I think everybody who comments or contributes to this site should take a note of that comment. And you are the sheer definition of an elitist.```
oh yay just want i always wanted to HAVE to explain simple words to people: ``Elitism is the belief or attitude that those individuals who are considered members of the elite — a select group of people with outstanding personal abilities, intellect, wealth, specialized training or experience, or other distinctive attributes ``
unless you consider my 119 IQ to be `standing intellect` i am in no way an elitist.
``and the medical records spanning all industrialized nations proves the safety and effectiveness of vaccines, and that´s just the fact that you cannot grasp.``
only when you have a lower standard of what safe is... as i already pointed out. which i`m sure as per usualy you either didn`t read or ignoraned outright.
``It doesn´t matter whether you are vocal about it or not, the fact of the matter is that Mercury is present in a lot of seafood in doses that trounce vaccines yet you are eerily silent on the dangers of eating fish....``
and i`d rather it not be in fish either... your arguement is flawed from the start. toxic is toxic even in small amounts is the arsenic in cigarettes safe... how about the fomaldahyde (which is also in vaccines btw).
``It doesn´t "shock" it, it is guaranteed to trigger a response which will boost the effectiveness of the vaccine. Once again, the evidence is on the side of vaccines in safety terms.``
then go inject yourself with adjuvant all you want.
``I think you totally misunderstood my point here. Although I would like for you to show me where you discovered that politicians have higher IQs than the general population because I don´t believe that for a second.``
IQ doesn`t actually represent intelligent actions... for instance bush hada much higher than everage IQ but was quite dumb... infact even obama`s IQ is lower but how many people think bush is actually smarted than obama; i certianly don`t.
and i`m not sure its an average but yes in terms of IQ people in politics tend to be higher much like that of scientists, economists, doctors, business managers and the like...
``Are you trying to say that their "alleged" high IQs are a result of a lack of vaccinations as a child, or are you just rambling?``
to some extent at least for some politicans and their families that would be true... and sort of, my point was that politicans (and usually their families) do get vaccines that are TRUELLY safe (biological and in this case also neurologicall)... not just medically safe, which means not having a high number of immediate adverse reactions.. its almost impossible to prove or dissprove beyond all doubt that it causes neurological problems but logically ANYTHING neurologically toxic does (even the mercury in fish).
and you can call this walking away if you want to but i have no intention of wasting as much time on you this time around as i did last time. its not worth my time; i`d get further banging my head on a litterally wall than with you... and thats not worth my time either... and about the same pay-off.
---------------------------------------- "no you MORON (sorry admin but i hate stupiity and ignorance esspecially when done intentionally), me getting sick of being a broken record player for your ilk and being being threated for being banned for pointing out the stupidity and ignroance is why i left that can all my efforts are worthless to most of you people." ----------------------------------------
Moron? haha, I can smell the fury off you. What´s wrong? You don´t like anybody disagreeing with you? Once again, and I´ve told you this before; HAVOC, you think you have information that none of the rest of us have - whether it is the ridiculous conspiracy theories you broadcast through this site from your documentaries or something else - but I promise you, you don´t. You are made to feel like you are special and know better than the rest of us by your heroes, like Alex Jones, and I can say that safely because I used to believe the kind of stuff that you do now. Been there and back again.
---------------------------------------- "most all of the point i didn;`t reply to aren`t worth a reply and much more of this and you wont be worth replying to at all (like COG)." ----------------------------------------
That´s code for "I don´t have a reply". Because you don´t, so the safe thing to do is just ignore it.
---------------------------------------- "oh my bad i said panzy too for peopel that THINK they NEED a flu shot... and btw i stand by that." ----------------------------------------
Actually I don´t even remember that, I was referring to the time you declared the Illuminati to be the best documentary ever made and went on a big revealing rant about how you learned so much about history in a couple of hours... until I had the audacity to go to the forum thread (since you TOLD me to) read it, and reply to it. And you FREAKED out, you went crazy in such a revealing way.
---------------------------------------- "i already posted the ingredient informations NUMBEROUS times if thats not good enough for you tough shit, do your own research your not a child and i`m not your mommy and daddy so don`t expect me to do EVERYTHING for you... i`m here for INTELLEIGENT discussion and news... NOT YOU." ----------------------------------------
INTELLEIGENT????? Intelligent!
Now, here you go again. Here is the fact. You made an ASSERTION... here it is....
"these are all IMMEDIATE biological reactions... not even the result of acculumation of a lifetime, as they been associated with on the neurological level."
to which I replied...
"Cite the research and researchers who have successfully linked the use of ANY of the ingredient in the Swine Flu vaccine (hint: the Swine Flu vaccine is the same as the seasonal flu vaccine just with a different strain of flu) to neurological disorders, and then cite the peer-reviewed journal it was published in and any reference and/or rebuke made to the research by peers in the field. If you can´t do this, then don´t make assertions. If you don´t believe the peer-reviewed method using scientific journals is reliable, then you are in conflict with the very basics of the scientific method itself."
I have NEVER seen you cite any peer-reviewed article, only news media sources. In fact, I could actually help you, I could cite the name of a paper and the researchers of it that attempted to make this link, just say the word. And then of course I´ll show you how the research was debunked... again.
---------------------------------------- "oh yay just want i always wanted to HAVE to explain simple words to people:" ----------------------------------------
So you give me the definition of elitism. The word "elitist" is commonly used to describe somebody who believes like you do, that they are above everybody else (who you call the ignorant) more intelligent, more informed etc. Why do you think Barack Obama was being attacked as an elitist? It´s obviously not because of his political philosophy, going by the definition you just gave that would be the other side. I have no problem using the word with regard to how you conduct yourself when somebody disagrees with you.
---------------------------------------- "only when you have a lower standard of what safe is... as i already pointed out. which i`m sure as per usualy you either didn`t read or ignoraned outright." ----------------------------------------
In one of my last replies I already addressed your definition of what "safe" is with regard to vaccine and then compared it against the medical field as a whole. I don´t need to repeat myself.
---------------------------------------- "then go inject yourself with adjuvant all you want." ----------------------------------------
Oh wow, fantastic reply there again, in pure HAVOC style. Ignore the points, just be a smart-ass.
---------------------------------------- "and i`d rather it not be in fish either... your arguement is flawed from the start. toxic is toxic even in small amounts is the arsenic in cigarettes safe... how about the fomaldahyde (which is also in vaccines btw). ----------------------------------------
With relation to the Swine Flu vaccine, formaldehyde is listed as present in one of the approved vaccines in the U.S. It is on the ingredients list due to regulations, it is not added as an additive. It is used in the production of the vaccine to inactivate the virus and therefore trace amounts may be present in the vaccine. Formaldehyde has been proven safe in human trials in doses up to 100 mcg, which is the cut off point for vaccine production.
This is basically the same thing as "warning, may contain nut traces". It is used at the manufacturing level, and the amounts it is present in have been scientifically and statistically proven to be safe for human beings. But of course you wouldn´t say that, you just blurt out "(which is also in vaccines btw)", being intentionally misleading.
As for your "toxic is toxic" claim. You really should look into what toxicity means, and you´ll see that almost everything is toxic to some degree depending on exposure. Like I already said, the entire medical field is based a lot on a "balancing act".
---------------------------------------- "IQ doesn`t actually represent intelligent actions... for instance bush hada much higher than everage IQ but was quite dumb... infact even obama`s IQ is lower but how many people think bush is actually smarted than obama; i certianly don`t.
and i`m not sure its an average but yes in terms of IQ people in politics tend to be higher much like that of scientists, economists, doctors, business managers and the like... " ----------------------------------------
I didn´t need a lesson in IQ, I know full well it doesn´t represent a measure of intelligence, but I was asking you how you knew they had higher IQ and how it was actually even relevant to say so.
---------------------------------------- "to some extent at least for some politicans and their families that would be true... and sort of, my point was that politicans (and usually their families) do get vaccines that are TRUELLY safe (biological and in this case also neurologicall)... not just medically safe, which means not having a high number of immediate adverse reactions.. its almost impossible to prove or dissprove beyond all doubt that it causes neurological problems but logically ANYTHING neurologically toxic does (even the mercury in fish)." ----------------------------------------
OK, so don´t eat fish and don´t drink water from a municipal source. You might want to lay off oxygen too, that´s deadly stuff, makes you age, combines with your mitochondria to leak free radicals all over your body that damage the DNA in your cells etc. Like I said before, don´t want to get vaccinated? Then don´t. But don´t call it logic when you know full well that environmental pollutants and other factors of normal life damage us more than a vaccine could ever hope to.
I´m going to take a new comment to reply to your last point to me....
------------------------------------------ "and you can call this walking away if you want to but i have no intention of wasting as much time on you this time around as i did last time. its not worth my time; i`d get further banging my head on a litterally wall than with you... and thats not worth my time either... and about the same pay-off." ------------------------------------------
Yes, you are walking away. You are because you failed again to give a reasonable response to simple points that I made back to you. You failed to cite absolutely any research published in a peer reviewed article and accepted by the scientific community (not the medical industry - the scientific community) as evidence that vaccine use is associated with neurological problems. Instead you attempted to say that you had already given such information and won´t do it again (awfully convenient).
Now I don´t like wasting my time here either. I work hard enough not to be getting stuck in stuff like this when I have time off. But the fact of the matter is, my account here is pretty old, and I used to use this place quite regularly, I even submitted news for several months. Back then however, the place wasn´t hijacked by people and used to spread their own agenda. I caught you doing it with 9/11 and NWO conspiracy theories and confronted your information, and you walked away. Several news items related to the recent wars I also got into a back and forth with you about.
When Swine Flu came along, I knew this place would be a hotbed for misinformation again so I wasn´t surprised to see you leading the charge. However, just like everything else, I disagreed and wrote why I disagreed.
You responded by doing what you always do; quote mining, inventing straw man claims to attack me, calling me ignorant, calling me a moron, ignoring points that I make entirely and now again, walking away. You do it constantly.
I don´t like this as much as you don´t, but of the two of us, I´m not making assertions I can´t backup with evidence, you are. Now you have admitted on this very site, I can give you the forum link, that your sources are a bunch of documentaries that are dominated by Alex Jones and the like, and you declared you got your knowledge of history (particularly related to Jews from what I´ve noticed) from the Illuminati documentaries. Now, I get some of my information from documentaries too, I happen to have over 350GB of them in fact spanning back since 2002. But when it comes to something like this, when I saw Swine Flu in the news, I followed it, I followed the efforts to fight it, the vaccine development for example, and the (slow) mutation of the strain (there are drug-resistant strains but without significant changes otherwise). When the question was asked about safety, I checked myself online about it. I was willing to read over all of the medical advice, all of the facts about the use of thimersol and other ingredients of the vaccine. I ALWAYS self-inform, especially when it can affect me personally, such as a flu pandemic.
So I have no problem debating the Swine Flu vaccine, or heck I´ll even expand it to vaccines in general, knowing full well my knowledge is coming from Scientific research, from the realm of peer-review, of double-blind trials, from statistics of decades worth of use of vaccines. If I saw something tomorrow coming from a legitimate research effort into vaccines that showed that the Swine Flu vaccine was actually dangerous (relative to medicine in general) then I wouldn´t take it. Then, we´d agree.
But we don´t agree. And yes we can agree to disagree, but if you start asserting stuff that I don´t think is true from what I´ve read, or if I research something you say and find that its not true, I have every god damn right to call you out on it. This is a public website, and I won´t shut up just because it would be convenient for you, and no amount of calling me ignorant, or a moron, will change that.
nothing personal but talking to you about religion is a futile effort unless said person already agree with you... hence why i don´t do it any more. nothing against you personally but on certian topics people are just thick headed with what they been raised to believe and what they´re told everyday to believe by a variety of sources to the point were 90% of people aren´t even actively thinking anymore and hence logic in discussion with such people is virtually impossible (at least on those topics for those people), and unless were discussing art, logic is the first and foremost characteristic that should be in any discussion.... at least any discussion i want to be part of.
don´t take it personal , it wasn´t meant to be but that was the easiest way to give reference.
Well said-- I don´t waste my time in simple disagreements.
I waste my time discrediting those propagating the bullshit that is making people with legitimately open minds looking for the REAL good and the REAL bad about vaccinating their children.
I think when someone comes in pushing information that panders to the scared and the people that don´t have time to do hard research themselves, or those that can´t understand the research available, someone needs to discredit outrageous unsupported information.
I just simply don´t get why it´s so hard to expect REAL proof when throwing these claims.... I mean we read journals EVERY DAY that tell us things we don´t want to hear... why not about vaccines?
Man, now that I think about it, I haven´t seen a good winter in a LONG time. I´m literally from hillbilly country, where we´ve had feet upon feet of snow during a winter.
And now, since I´ve been in the England, it´s like "wtf is this." I thought it´d be worse, being further north in the world!
Canada though. Nah. My triceps and me just talk a lot of talk. We don´t want any Canada.
