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12/02/2009 05:41 AM ID: 81926 Permalink   

Porn Is ´OK´


Research from the University of Montreal is suggesting that pornography is being overly criticized for its bad effects on those that partake in its treasures.

The study compares the vast number of male individuals that consume pornography, to the actual number of individuals that have shown pathological behavior. So far only 20 men have been interviewed.

"Pornography hasn't changed their perception of women or their relationship which they all want as harmonious and fulfilling as possible," Simon Louis Lajeunesse at the School of Social Work says.

    WebReporter: Luc1dDr3am Show Calling Card      
ASSESS this news: BLOCK this news. Reason:
No shit sherlock.
  by: silentrage   12/02/2009 06:20 AM     
  But what about...  
The people that are used to make porn? How many of them grew up abused and neglected as children? How many of them have lived life almost as a series of rapes, over and over and over? How many of them are forced into "the trade"? What about the effects if has on Those people?

From the source:
"All test subjects report... that they feel victimized by rhetoric that demonizes pornography." Are you effing serious?? People who subsidized the victimization of other human beings feel victimized for subsidizing it?

Not to mention that this study is so small and limited in scope that it´s absurd to try to call it valid research on the subject... which they sort-of admit, at least (in the source).

It´s a good summary though, Luc1dDr3am, just so you know my ire is in no way directed at you ;-)
  by: vlynxy   12/02/2009 07:04 AM     
uh, we´re talking about porn, not prostitution.
Porn is one of the largest industries in america, and it´s a very professional trade with health codes and regulations and contracts, and movie stars even.
  by: silentrage   12/02/2009 08:05 AM     
  negative effects  
Porn in developed countries doesn´t have nearly as many negative effects that it has in developing countries.

Here in Cambodia with the recent access to the internet and mobile phones that can store internet porn, the number of rapes has increased. Now you could say, that is a post hoc ergo proctor hoc fallacy, but a lot of the younger people that are doing the raping say that they did it because they were watching porn on their phones and couldn´t contain their urges.

In a lot of developing countries, sex is a taboo topic. Here there is no such thing as sex education, and even when I tried to do some sex ed at my center, everyone acted like I had asked to show the teens pornography. Most of the teens refused to talk about sex, but then later I found that they knew nothing about it. Grown adults all giggle at me when I buy condoms at the I´m in an old Bevis and Butthead episode or something. They live lives completely devoid of openness towards sexuality and then watch hardcore porn and their hormones and emotions run away with them.
With the internet, there is no stopping the porn though. The answer isn´t stopping the porn, it´s educating the people. That is proving to be a most difficult task though since every time you try to speak to the people here about it, they bury their heads in the sand.

As for porn on the Western side. I´ve read the books about Deep Throat and the bad things that porn makers did in the 70´s and 80´s but I think things have changed since then . My friend used to sell toys at Adult Film conventions and he said all the adult film stars seemed happy in their line of work. What seems to be and the reality of it is not always the same, but if no one is forcing them into it, I don´t see anything wrong with it.

As for the test from the university of Montreal...leave it to a Canadian university to come to a conclusion after only talking to 20 men eh. (playful stab at our North American brethren)
  by: shaohu     12/02/2009 09:01 AM     
uh, we´re talking about porn, not prostitution.
Porn is one of the largest industries in america, and it´s a very professional trade with health codes and regulations and contracts, and movie stars even.
by: silentrage

Uhh do you known much about the porn industry prior to the internet making stars out of everybody? I´m sure you know about Traci Lords and what happened to her and how young she actually was in her famous pornos correct? What about one of the more famous and the most powerful woman in the porn industry, Jenna Jameson? Retired and the mother of twins Jenna is one of the few women that was able to turn it around and both perform in and market porn in a much safer way than when she was in her early years, You are saying that she never once was abused or raped while in the industry? There is still abuse, rape and violence involved in certain aspects of the business. We could talk about Drugs and alcohol that is consumed in copious amount by many of the porn stars then and now.

Why not ask Mary Carey what the porn industry did to her life? Including how her boyfriend/manager was trying to get her to fall off the wagon yet another time because sober Mary doesn´t like porn and drunk Mary will be up for many things. She ran away from home when her mother blamed her for step-daddy raping her and beating her and that pattern has played pretty much over and over in her life until she tried to get sober. She has fell off the wagon more than a few times but if you don´t think someone calls themselves nice Mary and naughty Mary is without mental problems then she might not be the one who needs counseling.

I am not against porn, but I also am not stupid as to what still goes on more than we´d like to admit. The trade is professional and many of the women and men come from broken homes and were abused by someone. To think just because there are health codes, regulations, contracts(like that is either here or there, I guess you mean that people raped and abused don´t sign contracts and f*c* for old glory but then you would be wrong. In fact porn is hurting someone daily and as for the contracts, well there are plenty of people doing it with their lovers, neighbors and anyone else who wants to join in and make flicks left and righ and on top or bottom.

  by: TaraB     12/02/2009 09:49 AM     
  @Mary Carey  
I don´t think the porn industry made her do the things she´s done. She had mentally unstable parents, making her prone to her own mental instability, as well as suffering from alcoholism. I think her addiction to alcohol caused a lot of her problems. Porn was easy money, which is what she was all about, as most alcohol/drug addicts tend to be. I guess in short, I just think Porn is a sort of "symptom" in her case, being secondary to her larger problems.
  by: Dayron   12/02/2009 11:18 AM     
If you´re talking about the byproduct of an industry then we might as well ban rock & roll, rap and movies for the drug abuse, the moshing and the groupie sex.
  by: silentrage   12/02/2009 11:23 AM     
  figure this one out  
When I was living in a certain developing country in central/north Africa, there was a french man that came to the country and paid some of the local women to film some pornography. Word got out around the village about this and next thing you know the men of the village are dragging the froggy out of his home and beating him with large chains. They beat him to death because they said the pornography was disrespectful and degrading to the whole society....
meanwhile most of the men were guilty of raping women and girls, sometimes even their own family. but since everyone in the society knows you can´t talk about rape, and that its common... its "ok". BUT Putting an act of consensual sex on film for everyone to see...that is unforgivable and punishable by death (in their eyes)
  by: shaohu     12/02/2009 12:18 PM     
going to go ahead and, just as a minor note, let you know that porn doesn´t make people use drugs. You know what causes people to use rampant amounts of drugs? Money. Pretty much anyone who has a notable amount of money uses drugs, either a little or a lot. Why? I don´t know, perhaps their wealth leaves them desensitized to the simple things in life. But that´s just speculation.
  by: velger   12/02/2009 01:21 PM     
  @ velger  
Because they can afford it... and by the way, not everyone is cut out to enjoy the pleasures of drug use, some people should stick to the "simple" things in life.

@ Porn: It´s ok for a relationship until the guy gets caught with evidence in hand.
  by: MouseJunkie     12/02/2009 01:44 PM     
I´ve been caught with more than evidence in hand.
  by: Dayron   12/02/2009 02:15 PM     
  Wait wait wait...  
"The study compares the vast number of male individuals that consume pornography, to the actual number of individuals that have shown pathological behavior. So far only 20 men have been interviewed."

How is 20 men a vast number?
  by: jediman3     12/02/2009 03:49 PM     
Are you saying you think you could take on 20 men in hand-to-hand combat, for your life? Or the WCW World Title Belt, cira 1995?



.... Sorry.
  by: Dayron   12/02/2009 03:57 PM     
you mean superstars in the JIZZ?!

.... Sorry.
  by: Zmethod     12/02/2009 04:08 PM     
I´m not arguing against what you said, but I want to elaborate that the point I´m coming from isn´t that I hold the porn industry as responsible for Creating a person like Mary Carey (which is a very good example for this, thank you Tara) since obviously they weren´t the people who damaged her as a child, but I ~do~ hold them responsible for exploiting such a damaged person.

Actually prostitution is a good equivalent, because I wouldn´t necessarily be against legalized prostitution either ~if~, as well as with porn, there was some way to prevent damaged people from further hurting themselves, or being exploited, by getting involved with these things.

Yes the standards in the industry in the US are much better than they used to be, but they could be even better. Add to that, that some other places have ~no~ standards to speak of. How can you tell if the porn you´re watching is "US, grade A, no people were harmed in the production, or pre-production of this film" porn or "third world country, there´s a guy with a gun behind the camera, and the women in this film were bought via human slavery, and they´ll be tutored or killed if they try to fight back" porn, especially with it´s unregulated prevalence on the internet?

I very much agree education is important. Hiding things that are perfectly natural and normal behind cultural taboo´s demonizes things and, to my mind, is probably one of the largest factors in why some people end up victimizing others, and other people end up easily victimized (because of their individual psychological makeups) . If people were properly educated about these things, "what is sex? what is abuse? what is rape? what is good and right about some things, and wrong about others, and why?" then I would expect the chances of having "victimless porn" would go up much higher... but try to go against cultural taboos in some places is likely to get you killed, I see >.<

@ "Porn is OK"
I know there are people that are fine and happy and proud to be of service in this fashion and lead productive lives by doing it. More power to those folks. Just because I find something personally repulsive doesn´t mean there´s something inherently wrong with it.

But there ~is~ something inherently wrong with exploiting another human being because of their frailties. Just because the law allows something to occur doesn´t mean the law is good or complete.

I´ll be satisfied when I have confidence that the only people that are involved in porn are psychologically healthy, stable people that aren´t prone to exploitation and abuse. Until that day, No, Porn is not "OK".
  by: vlynxy   12/02/2009 04:37 PM     
"tutored" doesn´t have the same meaning as "tortured" does it... =P
  by: vlynxy   12/02/2009 04:39 PM     
  But Sex is Better.  
More Porno Please.
  by: Mannyishere     12/02/2009 05:21 PM     
porn has been around for along time,,a very long time,it´s the morals that have changed,the laws that "protect" ppl,there are over 40,000 laws ,but God had only 10
  by: diehard   12/02/2009 05:55 PM     
That´s someones daughter! :p
  by: JayWar   12/02/2009 06:23 PM     
  Interesting, yet not surprising.....  
It´s interesting how the sex business seems to be the only industry that is directly blamed for drug abuse, exploitation, etc.

As for drug/alcohol abuse amongst certain professions, the sex business certainly isn´t at the top of that list. For those of you who think so... I would invite you to show up at your local paint store at 7AM any day of the week and try ton find a painter who isn´t high or doesn´t look completely hung over from last nights bender. Then go to a strip club the following evening and count the sober strippers who are fleecing the drunken, stoned painters you saw that morning.

On the subject of exploitation... of course there have been many women exploited. That is an inherent by-product of prohibition. It doesn´t matter whether the prohibition is in place due to written law or some social moral standard, the results have always been and will always be the same.

In the end, I don´t´ hear people whining that working around sometimes noxious paint fumes somehow causes painters to become drug addicts, nor do I see people complaining that the the textile industry is somehow to blame for the exploitation of child labor.

Yet people consistently blame the sex industry for every conceivable ill effected individual in it.... even when arguing for its existence.

Until that notion can be looked past, there will never be an objective or productive debate about the sex industry. So, in the words of one of America´s greatest champions of liberty, I say:

Relax, it´s just sex. - Larry Flynt

  by: bbeljefe     12/02/2009 06:31 PM     
That´s someones son!
  by: Lurker     12/02/2009 06:38 PM     
  But what is porn?  
You and you partner have sex. Either everybody does it or they want to do it. It is a biological imperiative. Only the religious nuts want to make it dirty and control it. Anyway, you are having sex in your bedroom. Are you the victim of childhood abuse? No, just normally horney. If it wasn´t for being horney, no one would exist on this earth. So it must be OK. Then, you record your actions. Now, is it porn? You put the video on the internet. Now, is it porn? You charge people to see it. Now, is it porn? When does an everyday act become pornographic? When someone deems it so? So, is killing a baby seal pornographic? Is eating a hamburger pornographic? Is typing this pornographic? It comes down to control. Someone wants to label something negatively so that they can exercise some control over that thing. They deem it bad therefore it must be bad. And bad things must be stopped or eliminated. I think that we neede to label less and leave people alone.
  by: walter3ca   12/02/2009 07:11 PM     
  You Don´t Need A Short Novel To Explan...  
The porn industry, in essence, is not a BAD thing, but is a catalyst for corruption and allows bad things to occur.

Much like how government is not a bad thing, because it regulates and polices the masses. But corruption in government is bad because it allows evil to flow into our lives through the massive governmental distribution pathways... like legislation.

Similar to that, porn targets the most primal aspects of our lives, our urges.. which can also easily affect other primal insticts, e.g. rape, and violence.

porn = "good"
corruption = bad
corrupt porn industry = bad
  by: m.i.a.elite     12/02/2009 07:26 PM     
  I told you guys to leave those sheep alone!  
Except on Sundays and holidays.
  by: White Albino   12/02/2009 07:44 PM     
Judging from your other stories about cambodia, i think these rapes would have happened with or without a reason, these people are simply insane. If the slightest reason like watching a porn clip on a mobile phone makes them do it, it could have been triggered by anything really.
  by: evilrat   12/02/2009 08:23 PM     
"Anyway, you are having sex in your bedroom. Are you the victim of childhood abuse? No, just normally horney. If it wasn´t for being horney, no one would exist on this earth. So it must be OK. Then, you record your actions. Now, is it porn? You put the video on the internet. Now, is it porn?"

The thing about words is that they have definitions. When you make material for the purpose of sexual arousal you have made porn. In your hypothetical sequitur situation, when you record your act that is when it has become porn.
I think I understand what you are alluding to and perhaps a better question would be, "Why does pornography have a negative connotation?"
  by: shatteredhand   12/02/2009 08:47 PM     
  If You Substitute Any Subject  
You will get the same arguments and examples.

Instead of Porn substitute Religions.
Instead of porn substitute Alcohol.
Instead of porn substitute gambling.
Instead of porn substitute guns.
Instead of porn substitute anything.

Some people can handle somethings some can´t.

Most arguments about any of these can be made for any other of these. Seems like everything will have victims and profiteers.
  by: ichi     12/02/2009 08:55 PM     
"but sex is ok" ? or "butt sex is ok" ?
  by: shaohu     12/03/2009 03:03 AM     
  by: Mannyishere     12/03/2009 04:23 AM     
"Carey (which is a very good example for this, thank you Tara)"

Thank you. I want to thank you also, because you knew what I was saying in my comments to silent.

" exploiting such a damaged person."
Exactly. There are many porn stars now that aren´t into the drugs or coming from such a bad background but to make porn sound like silent was is just silly. I don´t know how many read about or saw either of Mary´s time spent on Celebrity rehab but my husband likes the show and I started to notice when she was on. While there were several episodes that showed her manager/user/supposed boy friend be a huge freaking dick to her.They way he talked to her and treated her was absolutley disgusting and he is nothing short of a little prick. Those are the kind of freaks that I am talking about and many years ago were even nicer than the norm.

I don´t think that enjoying porn should be frowned upon and many of todays stars are doing things on their terms which is a positive. The differences in what happened to Traci Lords, Linda Susan Boreman and others is nothing like what today´s porn is about. We shouldn´t forget what the early days were like for many of the women and even some of the men so we don´t end up repeating those mistakes.

  by: TaraB     12/03/2009 04:30 AM     
  So what was he Tara???  
A huge dick or a little prick?


  by: bbeljefe     12/03/2009 05:08 AM     
"I don´t think that enjoying porn should be frowned upon..."

That´s good, because I enjoy it immensely. All types. All the day. All the long.

  by: Dayron   12/03/2009 09:20 AM     
  Did i just see arguments...  
Saying that porn is not prostitution?

As any industry expert would know: getting paid to have sex is porn. Paying someone to have sex so you can watch is pandering prostitution.

But as all wise governments have declared: it´s not prostitution if you pay taxes and if (in some states) there´s a camera.

Now, i´m not one to make a judgement on people wanting to make a buck whichever way they want... but this is cutting into my safe space. Call it what it is - don´t hide under the blanket of acting "!?". Prostitution is bad for the communities where it is allowed. Excessive drug and alcohol use is always near, rape, pimping, and slavery is close by. My safe space is as far as possible from those things.

Also, to say that watching a woman who´s sold her body for money doing whatever a man wants with her (to her own detriment and humiliation) while pretending to enjoy it - is not a healthy thing to enjoy to watch. Cause sooner or later, that will turn you on and then what? Will you then say, that turned me on but i will forgo it with my loved one? Oh, the temptation to impose it would be too great.
Call it what it is... don´t get all freedom loving righteous.
Porn is prostitution and learning how to treat women from prostitutes will lead to very bad behavior that is both unsafe and unhealthy.
  by: mexicanrevolution   12/04/2009 05:13 AM     
I usually agree with your posts but you seem to have lost site of reason here.

The act of paying one for sex is prostitution but it is not pornography unless the act is documented on some form of media. To suggest otherwise is purely conjecture. Which, I might add, is clearly what your entire post is based on. For one, you have no proof that legalized prostitution causes an increase in any occurrence of crime. You also make your statements on the blanket assumption that all women do not enjoy sex and would only participate in the act due to coercion.

Newsflash: Women enjoy sex too. Many of them enjoy the act of being paid for sex and being filmed having sex.

Again, your argument takes the same circular path that many others here do... you come back to blaming the industry for the bad things that occur in it. Pornography and prostitution do not cause women to be mistreated. Evil people who don´t respect the rights of others causes women to be mistreated... in whatever industry they are mistreated. Would you blame money for the fact that some people steal from others? Would you blame the automobile because some people commit vehicular homicide? Of course not... but you´ll gladly point out only the bad people in the pornography industry in order to cast a blanket condemnation on it.

Some food for thought: Prostitution and drugs are legal in Amsterdam yet while visiting Amsterdam, your chances of being a victim of crime are about 1 in 600. Compare that to New York, where drugs and prostitution are prohibited and you have a 1 in 200 chance of becoming a victim.

Yeah, that prohibition is working great, huh?

  by: bbeljefe     12/04/2009 07:47 PM     
Yea i usually agree with my own comments too:
Enjoying sex while getting paid for it sounds great... but given the fact that if you are actually paying for sex this usually means that you´re not a lot of fun to have sex with anyway.
So, the chances of getting paid to have sex : like for instance Shakira paying me to have sex with her would be awesome but very, very unlikely. But the reality of the matter is that it´s usually some guy that you wouldn´t even look at for a dollar... let alone kiss for a $100!
add to that the fact that the guy that pays usually wants his money´s worth - and to some men that means some really sick stuff in unsafe ways - under danger of not getting paid or worse hurt. i doubt very much that the rosy picture you painted is the norm in a prostitutes life (picture: guy pays and then asks prostitute/porn actress: so how can i please you? And please, he tells her, don´t worry about mine or the director´s needs or desires?)
I recently read an article that anus to mouth sex during sex in pornography is becoming the norm: Now bbeljefe, I find it hard to believe that in the thousands of women that "act" in porn or millions that prostitute themselves, there are any that would find that dangerous, unhealthy practice enticing or sexy. They do it for money and/or under duress.

Amsterdam has one of the highest crime rates in the Netherlands (first or second, i believe). Again, this proves my point: where ever the degradation of human beings is practiced, crime thrives.
  by: mexicanrevolution   12/05/2009 02:53 AM     
What experience are you relying on for your comments? How many prostitutes do you know? How many porn stars? Or are you still using conjecture as the basis of your arguments? I know a few women who have done porn and I´ve talked with a fair number of both prostitutes and porn stars. My wife and I were a host couple at a swing club for about four years and have been in the swinging lifestyle for about seven years. We´ve been to various adult and swinger conventions from LA to New Orleans and I can tell you from personal experience that there are a lot of female porn actresses, prostitutes and strippers who do the very same things in their private lives that they do on the job for money. These women, like their male counterparts, enjoy sex.

Lastly, of course the crime rate is higher in Amsterdam than it is in the rest the Netherlands. It´s the hub of the most densely populated metropolitan area in the country. Not unlike New York city in the US. Hence the reason I compared NYC with Amsterdam. Gee... NYC probably has the highest crime rate in New England as well...

So again, lets compare like and kind:

New York: Legal drug use? NO. Legal prostitution? NO.

Amsterdam: Legal drug use? YES. Legal prostitution? YES.

Highest crime rate: New York

  by: bbeljefe     12/05/2009 03:33 AM     
  One more thing....  
The sex industry is not, in and of itself, representative of the degradation of human beings any more so than the textile industry is representative of the exploitation of child labor.

In case you didn´t read one of my earlier posts.

  by: bbeljefe     12/05/2009 03:37 AM     
The learned ones, keep ´em cumming. I am getting educated on Sex and it´s depravity.. Short News does not suck, after all..
  by: skcusswentrohs     12/05/2009 07:39 PM     
First... I´ve never known SN to suck.

Second... I didn´t offer my comments in an attempt to be provocative.

Last: Your definition of depravity is clearly biblical. Otherwise, the notion of consenting adults sharing sexual encounters among other consenting adults would not seem depraved to you. ;)

  by: bbeljefe     12/08/2009 03:43 AM     
One last comment - i´m confused with your statements... in that i have to experience prostitution?
or that there are no negative effects, nor is there any coercive action taken against a woman to make her into a prostitute?
And that all prostitutes enjoy sex or even that most do and there are just some bad apples here and there?

If you can clarify these points: it would be helpful. Other than that, what a swinger or porn "actor" does is his or her business. What my argument is really is this: that to get paid for sex is prostitution.
Call it as it is.
  by: mexicanrevolution   12/10/2009 08:47 PM     
Consenting adults and porn are two different issue. Porn is Work, especially if you are getting paid for having sex infront of a camera and Chi Chi Larue is yelling how you should be performing, or where to put in.

That does not stop there either. If you are getting hurt, expect no sympathy from Chi Chi, simply because, you are getting paid, hence service and remuneration.

Not all prostitute are happy prostituting, jsut like not all Johns are happy pying for it, but I am not here to draw a line and compare one to the other. Howeve I will not sternly say, all pornstars are happy, include male performers in that.

Your life style swinging, will deffinitely make someone else cringe at a thought, however they have abslutely no right to judge you in any way, for a good reason that, you and your partner are both consenting adults. But would you go swinging as means of making a living? If you answer, yes! Even at being an adult and a consenting one, your title will also shape accordingly.

You are a father because you have a child, or raising one, unless thee art in heaven, than I will not dare call you hey Father.

Just the way it is with Textile industry infested with child labour, Porn industry is also under scrutiny of human degradation. This is not to say every porn film director and company degrade their stars. Vivid does not hire any performer who uses any illicit drugs, their reputation is impecable, but than how many porn companies can you single out and say, their performers are drug free??

I am not blaming the industry, but then, I am not blaming anyone, but those perpetrators who are bent on delivery of depravation simply because there is a market for it.

Currently the Lollita syndrome has taken this industry at very different level, perhaps you will agree, not all porn is made in America. Do you think there is a way to tell the ages of all consentnig porn stars? Thats abuse which I will say, it is due to demand.

regulated Porn industry = Good Industry

Not being able to regulate all porn = Porn Industry is bad industry for women.
  by: skcusswentrohs     12/11/2009 12:59 AM     
One doesn´t have to experience prostitution in order to define it. You made comments which claim that prostitution brings crime and you made them in a context in which I took you them as a claim that it brings a lot of crime and crimes that didn´t exist at all before it... which is untrue. Prostitution has existed everywhere for as long as humans have been around. The level of crime associated with prostitution is as high as it is because of prohibition. We tried alcohol prohibition in the early twentieth century and all we got from it was the birth of an organized crime network that was at one time, as powerful as our government. Yet we apparently learned nothing from that experience.

Of course there are women who are forced into prostitution. There always have been and their always will be. There are also still children forced in to sweat shop labor even though there are laws against that. Again.. if you´d like to see the number of women who are forced into prostitution drop, make it legal and accept it and the black market will loose its influence.

As for all prostitutes enjoying sex... that´s as absurd a statement as claiming all gas station attendants enjoy washing windshields or all secretaries enjoy answering the phone 500 times a day and I did not make that assertion. I questioned your experience or the sources of your claims because my experience includes having friendly relationships with prostitutes, strippers, etc, and my experience doesn´t match your claims. But... your claims match those of many people who have no experience with the sex industry.

Hope that clears up any confusion.

  by: bbeljefe     12/11/2009 03:31 AM     
First, kindly see my response to mexican as some of your comments are addressed there.

You claim that consenting adults, i.e. swingers and porn are two different issues and to some degree you are correct. Swinging and prostitution are more akin, so if you view porn in the same way mexican does... they are very much alike. Swinging is treated more like prostitution in this country and here´s why..

It is illegal to operate a business wherein consenting adults can come in, pay a cover charge, buy drinks, dance, party and have consensual sex. However, you can own a business wherein people can do all those things except have consensual sex.. and that´s known as a strip club. Laws differ state by state, but for the most part, those are the rules. For instance, in Texas, one can own a "titty bar" and possess a license to sell alcohol. However, if you choose to have completely nude dancers, you cannot get a liquor license. People can still drink in your club, but you have to let them bring in their own alcohol. What possible danger is averted by that law? None that I can find. I do, however, see a loss of revenue on the club owner´s part, simply because he cannot sell alcohol. As for swing clubs in Texas (there are hundreds accross this country), they are forced to operate as a cash business and have to call themselves a house party. In other words.. I can hold a sex party in my home, provide music, hot tubs, dance floors, finger foods, et al, but I cannot charge for them. I also have to make the party by invitation only and have a log of the people who attend. The only way I can cover my expenses is to ask for a suggested donation from each attendee. I can suggest the amount, but I cannot enforce the payment of said donation. The only recourse I have against the people who choose not to donate is to not invite them to another party.

I know that was long winded, but bear with me... there is a point.

Now.. nothing that we, as swingers, enjoy doing has been stopped by these foolish laws. No victims have been saved because, quite frankly, if we did choose to bring unwilling people in for our fun... we are actually more secluded in our derivations than if we were allowed to operate as a legitimate business. Not only that, the state gets no revenue from a liquor license and since it´s a cash business... no income has to be claimed, unless we choose to claim it.

The same goes for prostitution... I can go online and in fifteen minutes I can have an "escort" dispatched to my home for the purpose of spending "time" with my wife and I. What she decides to allow us to do with that time is up to her discretion... unless of course, we decide to chop her head off while spending time with her. Well guess what..... we could do that to the Avon lady and she´s operating a perfectly legal business.

As for me being a father... my wife and I have a son who is 23 years old and is a young man of very sound character and at the risk of bragging, is an absolute genius at programming. He recently started his own business writing software for i-phones and I have no reason not to think that by the time he´s 25, he might possibly exceed my lifetime´s income. Of course.. that´s not a really hard thing to do. :\

I can´t do anything other than agree with your sentiment about the people who take advantage of children. That should go without saying, but then you really don´t know me, so I don´t mind clarifying that. That statement begs the question, however, of what can we do to lessen that desire among (mostly) men in our society?

My answer is quite simple.... Stop treating sex as taboo and stop training your daughters that sex is a tool of negotiation, on top of being taboo. Our society trains females that sex is not to be used for pleasure only. In fact, some of the more fundamentalist religious types teach their daughters that sex isn´t even pleasurable. Imagine is, from the time you were a young boy.. you were told that having sex would be painful and that you should never do it unless you were married and for the purpose of procreation. You´d be scared to death of it. No one wants to participate in something that´s painful, nor do they want to participate in an activity that will cause their friends and family to think ill of them. Yet girls are taught exactly this, or at least some watered down version of it, still today. Boys don´t usually get this indoctrination from their parents. As and example... when I was about fifteen, I had a friend who´s father upon our arriving home on any given Saturday night, would ask us if we got "lucky". But.. at the same time, he would tap his watch and threaten to beat the hell out of the no good "son of a bitch" who had his daughter out ten minutes late. I call that a double standard.

So.. fast forward to marriage and a lot of men find that their wives don´t want to get as freaky as they do. So what do those guys do? They go to hookers or go online and look at porn when their wiv
  by: bbeljefe     12/11/2009 04:55 AM     
  sorry.... continued  
So.. fast forward to marriage and a lot of men find that their wives don´t want to get as freaky as they do. So what do those guys do? They cheat, go to hookers, or go online and look at porn when their wives aren´t around.

Some of them follow the "lolita" links they find and for the most part, those "lolitas" are eighteen or over and the producers of the content have that documented. No doubt, there are others that don´t and there are instances where young women are coerced or children are featured. Those instances are obviously wrong to any person who respects human life and liberty, but there are also people out there who just don´t care about those things. Those people will always exist, but it´s my opinion that when you attempt to suppress human instinct, the result is an increase in curiosity, desire and sometimes even the willingness to participate in true depravity.

Of course.. I´m just a poor, semi literate construction hand, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express one night. ;)

  by: bbeljefe     12/11/2009 05:18 AM     
  The whole Kitchen Sink  
"That´s good, because I enjoy it immensely. All types. All the day. All the long. by: Dayron"

Wow! How did you get so good at typing with only one hand? ;-)

BB-"Newsflash: Women enjoy sex too. Many of them enjoy the act of being paid for sex and being filmed having sex."

Hell yes women enjoy sex, sadly too many still feel they need to supress their urges or afraid to tell their partner what they enjoy because he might be shocked. Sex is a natural part of life, in fact as my Anat & Phys professor once told us "The whole reason for any living thing that ´can´ procreate exists is to create a new extension of themselves." Think I´m full of it? Bacteria, Virus, Humans, Animals, Cells and do I need to go on?

Once a woman has a real orgasm and not one just to make their man to think ´Oh My Gawd you are the greatest, biggest, most fantastic ever!" she will seek wats to repeat that even if it means some solo or some ´help´ by the local Adam and Eve. I should have read further ahead.

"My answer is quite simple.... Stop treating sex as taboo and stop training your daughters that sex is a tool of negotiation, on top of being taboo. Our society trains females that sex is not to be used for pleasure only. In fact, some of the more fundamentalist religious types teach their daughters that sex isn´t even pleasurable."

Damn straight! I am so lucky that my parents were open and honest about any conversation I would bring up and they encouraged me to ask questions and to be independant in life. I only had one relationship when that I somehow didn´t see how my independance and my always known opinion was taken away. Thankfully I married someone who encourages my independance and my bitchy & mouthy attitudes at times. I told him straight up when we first started dating that I hadn´t had sex with anyone other than myself since my oldest was 5 months old. I made myself a promise that I wouldn´t be like many women who bring ´uncles´ in out of the front door like a McDonald´s at lunchtime. I learned a hell of a lot in between relationships and am not going to feel bad for it and no woman should. If you don´t know your own body and what you like or don´t like how the hell are you supposed to truly please yourself, your husband, wife, girlfriend, boyfriend or a combination of them?

Sex is such a scary thing to so many and especially in the US we have some aversion to seeing a nude body and talking about sex is a no-no because that might mean you are a pervert instead of realizing it is normal for girls to check themselves out just like boys do. It is only when you tell them some stupid lie or plant the seed of pain or fear that you are causing more damage than anyone.

I would say that by outlawing prostitution is what really brings about all those problems we get tossed around when the discussion of legalizing prostitution comes up. If anyone thinks it isn´t true can look at Rhode Islands rules on Prostitution or Nevada´s little area´s. If a woman or man that is a prostitute doesn´t have to try and hide what they are doing there will be less of a chance that they will take risks about where they are selling their services.
  by: TaraB     12/11/2009 07:01 AM     
  Damn Most important part of my reply!  
Mexican- "What my argument is really is this: that to get paid for sex is prostitution.
Call it as it is."

The law would disagree with you in the areas that these movies are made, if not then they wouldn´t allow them to have Unions, Strict health regulations including the mandatory testing.

Skcuss-"Porn is Work, especially if you are getting paid for having sex infront of a camera"

I have a question for you Mexican,Skcuss and anyone that feels that paying for sex no matter what is prostitution. Can a husband and wife having sex with each other be prostitution? A Yes or No answer and not some middle teeter totter excuse.

I´ll go and if the answer is yes then I suggest you turn yourselves in please.
I´ll stick with Jenna Jameson since she was so hot before all the plastic surgery. She performed in her movies with her husband most of the time, once they divorced she started dating Tito she wasn´t doing movies anymore.

So does that mean that when she was screwing her husband they were both being prostitutes with each other?
  by: TaraB     12/11/2009 07:02 AM     
  WOW Tara! Thanks for filling in the blanks for me.  
Not much else I can say... except that you´re obviously the Barbie to your Ken. ;)

  by: bbeljefe     12/11/2009 08:36 AM     
I dont think anyone goes out, brings a hooker home, f**ks her and then tells her to bring him coffee, sit down and starts talking about the time they met and how gratefull they are for bringing these blessed children, snuggle and wakeup, to start bickering over, who´s turn it was last night to take the garbage out. I, am sorry, but to ask if we think, or consider husband and wife as prostitutes, is simply a question should not even be contemplated, and in relations to laws.

As for the "if not then they wouldn´t allow them to have Unions, Strict health regulations including the mandatory testing" These are not unions within the confines of trade Unions, these are simple perspicacious agreements amongst those who are involved in this trade. It is not that easy. When porn director wants to have a certain tallent, they have opted to go through agencies, and made it a de facto rule, so that these porn stars can have a record, of who was the last person who hired them, what was their ability to perform, how good were they, and agencies keep pornstars DO´s and Don´t´s, as in do they do BB (Not SN´s BB) or, BG, BBG, or GGB, anal, fellatios, A2M, Gangbangs, Lesbos, creampies, etc, etc.

But there was a Union in the making; which also collapsed, as it had no substance to it. It was the Union of Fluffers against Pfizer makers of Viagra. They were demanding severance package they did not receive.. LOL but it is for real.

Infact if we are to veer the wheel towards LAW, America is anti porn, when 90% of Commercial porn is produced in the USA.
(as defined in section 230(e)(2) [1] of the Communications Act of 1934)
Here you will find all States and Laws pertinent to Obscenity Laws click on state that you reside, or that produces most porn.


Regulations and bylaws are honestly least of my argument, as I had said "but I am not here to draw a line and compare one to the other." One place regulation requires you to have a licenced establishment, with, or without alcohol, other places will regulate it differently and so on.

But as I mentioned, I am not the judge nor, a the jury, these regulations do not meet the standards of all humanity, hence they have no place in me to ponder.

I know pornstars, strippers and prostitutes, have had lengthy conversations with them, have watched many Documentaries, for and against, have watched many porn movies and in the event of chosing favourite directors, Max hardcore is not one of them. Infact I dont even click on anything Max Hardcores name is on. Because it is not my type of porn.

If a county you live in has laws that are against, prostitution, swingers, creeps and gangs, these are things you can take with the government, does not make it right, but surely doesnt make it legal.

I smoke weed, thats against the law, but once I get nabbed, I will argue until cows come home, truth is, I was breaking a law. Is it right to put me in jail because I was smoking weed? Well, we are still fighting to have it legalize and the best part about it, is that, there are politicians and law makers who are listening to our arguments.

Larry Flint said "Relax, it´s just sex." NO! it is Not when it is Porn. It is assimilation of Sex, just like a Ninja Assasins movies are not Assasins, or Saving Private Ryan, does not make Matt Damon a soldier, South African rugby player, or a genius miscreant in The Good Will Hunting.

Prostitution and Porn actors are not the same and not akin either, just like a Vibrator and Cucumber are not akin. One may look like the other, but it doesnt make it the same. One is vegetable/fruit the other one is a prop to be used for certain act.

The usage of analogy and misguided examples will only get us tangled and we may side track to other issues as we go along. Saying that Swingers and 3somes are akin would make more sense, than Pornstars and prostitutes. Because 3,4,5somes, or Gangbangs can be enjoyed by married, or not married couples as long as rules of engagemnet are stipulated and parties envolved are in concert with whats going on.

The moment recording materials are involved, it becomes a different orgy, it bends towards litigation, and if it is sold, revenues will be subjected to taxes. Such achievements are only begotten when cameras, or capturing devices are involved, not otherwise.

And another point that I would really like to stress. Since for some odd reasons that I have given an impression that, my views are resonating religious views, I would like to say that, I am far from that. I do not condemn people who are not harming other people, no matter what they do themselves, including such extremes as taking their own lives. It is not my place to judge your actions against yourself, whether you smooke crack, have cassual sex with multiple consenting partners, organize orgys in your area and participants are also consenting adults, usage of props, living and making your
  by: skcusswentrohs     12/11/2009 06:29 PM     
fantasies a reality, I honestly think, this is the way to live life at its maximum potential. You are not hurting anyone, whose bizwax it is to tell you otherwise!! whether religiously, morally, or simple assertions and looks and ostracising of society, because you are living like Hugh Hefner. Enjoy it as you never know, what might be waiting for you when you turn a corner.
Peace and out.
  by: skcusswentrohs     12/11/2009 06:40 PM     
  Porn is BAD!!  
Let´s go back to the old purtianical days & victorian days.

So I can wack off to women´s ankles exposed table legs that aren´t coverd by a generous tablecloth.
  by: redstain   07/01/2010 11:04 AM     
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