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12/26/2009 07:07 PM ID: 82217 Permalink   

Child Abduction Ends in ´Christmas Miracle´

 

Natalie Flores, 5, was playing with her sisters on Christmas afternoon when a stranger scooped her up and drove away with her in a brown pickup truck. As he was fleeing, he clipped a parked car before entering traffic in Phoenix, Arizona.

Natalie's older sister pounded on a neighbor's front door and trembled, saying her sister had been taken. An Amber Alert was issued and police began searching on foot and in cars and helicopters. Seven hours later, Natalie was still missing.

But Officer Mike Burns saw the suspect's vehicle and began a pursuit that ended with the truck crashed on the roadside and the 45-year-old suspect in custody. Natalie is "alive and well," said a police spokesman. "This was truly a Christmas miracle."

 
  Source: news.yahoo.com  
    WebReporter: Ben_Reilly Show Calling Card      
  Recommendation:  
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  26 Comments
  
  September  
 
And if it had happened in September, it would have been an ´almost end of summer´ miracle?
 
  by: yhwman   12/26/2009 09:01 PM     
  Phew!!  
 
Good ending, this shoudl be attributed to Human beings who did not stop looking.

Miracle!! My left foot and right Nut..
25th December was originally Roman pagans celebration of their Sun God Saturnalia. Christians adopted this day only to form bonds with these pagans. Today we have incorporated this day 25th Dec, which is the exact opposite of Bible and it´s teachings.

Tell a lie once, it is a lie. repeat it often and it becomes the Biblical truth. In this case repeat it for 1569 years..

I am glad and really happy to read that, people did not stop until it came to this end.
 
  by: skcusswentrohs     12/26/2009 09:08 PM     
  My question is...  
 
Why didn´t she go to her parents? Where were they? I can only guess the neighbor´s apartment was closer than her Aunt´s...
 
  by: Allanthar     12/26/2009 10:32 PM     
  @Allanthar  
 
Her parents live out of the state.
 
  by: agnaram   12/26/2009 11:29 PM     
  A child got kidnapped  
 
It is a true christmas miracle. Let us celebrate that the invented christian god is so great for getting a child kidnapped.

Oh he did rescue her in the end. All the other children that never got rescued weren´t obviously important neough.

Lovely made up religion. Fit´s nicely on the same idiot shelf as those Scientology morons with THEIR made up religion.
 
  by: Flutje   12/26/2009 11:33 PM     
  the non-miraculous part  
 
I´m glad she was rescued but if she was with the guy for a number of hours I don´t think she will escape from this ordeal without a good bit of mental trauma.
 
  by: gryphon50a   12/27/2009 12:35 AM     
  I am so sick...  
 
of these evil deviants. I wonder if this guy already had a record, like most of them have.
 
  by: captainJane     12/27/2009 05:35 AM     
  whatever ..  
 
the issue is the child was saved from harm because of unified citizens and that´s all that matters ..

how one tells a story is another matter, they call it writer´s poetic license, and thus is how tribes have invented folklore, for the really cool things that happened and unexplainable things that happened ..

and I like this quote "tell a lie once, it is a lie. repeat it often and it becomes the biblical truth" .. :)

and remember before most people could write, stories was by word of mouth and passed on to the next person .. :)

and everybody wants to add a little something because they like the attention :)

drama :)

what saved the child was unified citizens, and that´s what should be outstanding as example of what to be like .. not monkeys telling magic stories ..

it´s ok to be unified citizens and to pat yourself on the back :)


 
  by: Key2000     12/27/2009 07:59 AM     
  This and that and many comments  
 
"it´s ok to be unified citizens and to pat yourself on the back :)"

Key- I think that is what will be hardest for those citizens to do. They would rather offer it up as a miracle that all of the parts came together the way they did.

As for a miracle of any sorts I don´t think so. They have updated this and gave the mans name and his charges.
"Forty-five-year-old Larry Jon Ladwig was booked into jail early Saturday on charges of kidnapping, sexual molestation of a child, aggravated assault of a police officer and felony flight."

Also
"The Associated Press is not reporting the girl´s name because she may be the victim of a sex crime. The AP had named the girl after her abduction Friday."
Yet they say her name in the same source underneath *THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE*
"Natalie Flores was rescued at about 9:30 p.m. Friday, more than seven hours after she was scooped up by a stranger while playing with her sisters outside their Phoenix apartment building."

"Her parents live *separately out of state* and the girls live with their Aunt."

It sounds like the 3 sisters have already had some hard knocks in life and hopefully once Natalie is home she can heal with her sisters and Aunt and not be taken on the Morning Show rounds or on HLN shows like Jane Valez and Nancy Grace. A simple message of thanks from her Aunt and let it alone people.


I don´t know about miracle to most of us, but it probably felt like one to the officers and the other people that were looking for a little 5 year old. We all know what the usual end result is and if a few people want to think they had someone helping them that just happens to be invisible then what harm does it do? Call it Miracle, Psychic Intuition, Gut Feeling, Lucky Break or maybe even Satan had a hand in it because even he thinks Child Molesters are sick F*cks. In the end it was a police officer, Mike Burns, who saw the vehicle and was able to get little Natalie back alive. You can all say whatever you want but Mike Burns is my hero right now.

I heard about this and started crying because it has been one hell of a year when it comes to little girls missing and either found dead or not found at all. Neveah from MI (Dead), Amber Dubois from CA(Missing 2/09), check out the list of 2009 and how many we never hear about because they are either a teen, not cute enough, or their parents don´t know how to bug the shit out of shows like Nancy Grace who prefers little white girls on her show. If you live in the US please look at this and see if you might be able help http://www.pollyklaas.org/... and I chose this link out of all of them because I know that Mark Klaas has devoted his life to finding missing children like John Walsh has devoted his life to missing children and bringing criminals to face their crimes.
 
  by: TaraB     12/27/2009 11:49 AM     
  @ Key2000  
 
I liked that to it is so true.

@Tara John Walsh, id one incredible man, he turned an horrific experience of his own into something that is helping future generations in these appalling situations.

This is why I am into the tagging of people that REPEATEDLY re-offend they WILL NOT STOP and never will and should not have the right to be with the rest of society because they can never be trusted and will never have any kind of remorse for their crimes.This is what bugs me, from what I have observed the world over most of these abductions are usually done by these people and they never should have be set lose in the first place. Even wild animals throw their repeat offenders out of the pack and here are us human beings are supposed to be more advanced that have not even have the sense to work this simple action out.
 
  by: captainJane     12/27/2009 06:45 PM     
  @Tara  
 
Well, I was decidedly *not* surprised to see people take a common phrase ("Christmas miracle") applied to a rather miraculous event that did happen on Christmas, and use it as a platform on which to play another round of Smarter-Than-Thou Atheist.
 
  by: Ben_Reilly     12/27/2009 07:26 PM     
  @ben  
 
how is it showing smarter than thou atheist? its just a day

by the way in the bible it says jesus was born ib the summer or spring i forget which.

in no way was it mocking a damn atheist
 
  by: groomsy     12/27/2009 07:38 PM     
  @captain jane  
 
Captain Jane - go watch teh movie "falling down" good flick.

you´d really love it. shows how an ordinary man can go to the brink of insanity without even realizing it.


 
  by: TheDeeder   12/27/2009 07:51 PM     
  I have seen it...  
 
and I found it really frustrating. LOL He was a typical narcissist.

What a mess the laws are, lets be real about it. Letting these idiots free knowing full well some other kid is going to suffer for it.
 
  by: captainJane     12/27/2009 08:03 PM     
  @Tara, Ben  
 
Tara: The harm is in the fact that these people believe they only accomplished their feat through divine intervention. I would argue that if, in fact, divine intervention does exist, why is it used for the benefit of the evil when at the same time, a child suffers. And, why is it only on a holiday that a god has time to save a child from imminent danger? Truth be told, (as has been said above) the people who orchestrated this search effort are owed near 100% of the credit for their efforts. The remainder should be credited to circumstance.

Ben: I don´t see anyone as portraying a higher sense of being in refuting your claim that this is a Christmas miracle. Miracles, not unlike Christmas, cannot be proven scientifically. There is no consistency to them and certainly no logic so it stands to reason that, as I stated above, circumstance and diligence culminated in a very wonderful ending to an otherwise horrible event. Nothing more and nothing less.

BB
 
  by: bbeljefe     12/28/2009 06:43 AM     
  Ben  
 
"Well, I was decidedly *not* surprised to see people take a common phrase ("Christmas miracle") applied to a rather miraculous event that did happen on Christmas, and use it as a platform on which to play another round of Smarter-Than-Thou Atheist."

Ben if you want to give thanks to anyone then let it be the officer that saw the vehicle and got the girl back, sexually molested and abused, but alive. I really don´t know if you even bothered to read all of my post or just the parts that let you choose my reply over any of the actual athiests that posted on here. I have been dealing with some doubts about where my religious beliefs lie IF they do but I don´t believe I ever called myself an athiest. I happen to believe in something and if you were to corner me I´d go with agnostic or pagan (still). You have never questioned your faith once in your life? You might need to toss your name in for Pope then.

What I said follows
"I don´t know about miracle to most of us, but it probably felt like one to the officers and the other people that were looking for a little 5 year old. We all know what the usual end result is and if a few people want to think they had someone helping them that just happens to be invisible then what harm does it do? Call it Miracle, Psychic Intuition, Gut Feeling, Lucky Break or maybe even Satan had a hand in it because even he thinks Child Molesters are sick F*cks. In the end it was a police officer, Mike Burns, who saw the vehicle and was able to get little Natalie back alive. You can all say whatever you want but Mike Burns is my hero right now."

I will even show this part again "if a few people want to think they had someone helping them that just happens to be invisible then what harm does it do?"

Is that encouraging another round of Smarter-Than-Thou-Athiest? I´d love to know why that term should mean anything to me since I have said and I feel proven time and again that religion alone does not determine who I spend time with, I don´t however deal with anyone that is shoving it down my throat as the only truth and way. I know you have a strong faith and I can respect that and I would hope that you could respect others opinions when it comes to religion. Some of us have turned our backs to something that was not positive or uplifting as some people have found it to be. You love your religion and thats fine, I personally find Organized religion to be nothing more than a money making machine that uses fear to continue to grow it´s coffers and the individual person doesn´t mean jack it is their job and tithe that means the most.

I am really sad that you decided to ignore the last part which talks about all of the other missing children this year ALONE that we should also be looking for and praying for their families to have their child´s remains if nothing else. I would even walk into your church hand in hand to do so if that is what it takes to bring peace to a mother who can´t sleep or thinks every child that looks anything like hers and runs up to them only to be crushed once again. I am not the evil bloodthirsty person many would like to think and I would guess that you would have to admit that considering our discussions on and off the site.
 
  by: TaraB     12/28/2009 06:53 AM     
  @TaraB  
 
I didn´t mean you, and I did read what you said. I just saw a lot of non-religious people become awfully preachy over a common phrase that was pretty appropriate to the story, and felt like saying something about it.
 
  by: Ben_Reilly     12/28/2009 06:59 AM     
  Jane My dear  
 
I too have nothing but respect for John Walsh and all of the wonderful things he has done to help not only himself heal after the horrible beheading of his beautiful young son, but to help all of us to be a little safer at night and on a lookout for some of these scums.

I don´t know how much you know about mark Klaas, but if you don´t know much I would suggest on reading up on his beautiful little girls shocking kidnapping, rape and murder. The sick bastard that took her was so bold he kidnapped her from her own room while two friends stood there scared and disbelieving. Mark devoted his life to helping find other children that were missing and to get on any show he can to get the word our of a missing child.

Two very brave men that took their anguish and hate and turned it into something positive and a way to help all of our communities if we find that need.
 
  by: TaraB     12/28/2009 06:59 AM     
  @BB (and others)  
 
The word "miracle" does not have an exclusively religious meaning. I usually use it in a non-religious manner, and I would imagine most people do as well -- "It´s a miracle we got everything in place before the party." "The miracle on ice" (U.S. hockey team winning gold in the 1980 Olympics). "The miracle of childbirth," etc. "Miraculous" is often used to mean "wonderful and unexpected," or "a good outcome which defies the odds," which is what happened here. A few definitions I dug up from other sources:

# S: (n) miracle (any amazing or wonderful occurrence)
# S: (n) miracle (a marvellous event manifesting a supernatural act of a divine agent)

http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/...
 
  by: Ben_Reilly     12/28/2009 07:05 AM     
  Ben, BB  
 
Ben- I want to thank you very much for that. I did see what you were talking about and I can understand why you felt that way I was just thrown off at first because I thought you meant I was saying something else.



BB- Hand me a beer because it has been a long week. I don´t begrudge anyone for their belief as long as they don´t force it on me. I do believe that certain people hold something ´special´ in them and if that is a greater peace in their life, the holy spirit, or a bad dinner at Denny´s I am not above them in any way to tell them they are wrong as long as it hurts no one else and gives themselves a good feeling. I meditate and often use different tools to do so, in fact I´d probably be put in jail in several counties for practicing ´Witch Craft" if they were to see any of my tarot cards, runes or my candle collection which is starting to fade. I wish I would have held some money back to stock up on ´Christmas´ candles.

I don´t think that a divine spirit interceded in this case at all and I don´t see the harm that Mike Burns has caused by feeling that he was somehow part of a miracle. Maybe he has a photographic memory or a gut feeling that a lot of cops get after working so long. What I am really happy about more than anything is this little girl is going to be reunited with her sisters alive and not some bones thrown in the dirt and a cold stone placed to remember her resting place.
 
  by: TaraB     12/28/2009 07:21 AM     
  2009: A Year That No One Can Seem to Understand...  
 
What a Christmas Miracle is.

What the heck is with this Christmas Miracle crap? If when the truck had first clipped a parked car, and the girl fell out without any harm, YES...then it would be a ´Miracle´.

But every single time a criminal is caught, this is not a miracle. when I go to my frige, and I see I have one beer way in the back, it´s NOT a miracle. When the Govt sends home troops to be with their families for christmas, this is NOT a Miracle! c´mon people!

Here is the common meaning of a miracle:
1. An event that appears inexplicable by the laws of nature and so is held to be supernatural in origin or an act of God: "Miracles are spontaneous, they cannot be summoned, but come of themselves" (Katherine Anne Porter).

Here is what seemingly all news-worthy stories are using:
2. One that excites admiring awe. See synonym: wonder.
 
  by: vex   12/28/2009 07:50 PM     
  @ Ben, Tara  
 
Tara: Nothing to add to or argue with except to offer that since you believe there is, could or should be some divine being or spirit.. you are a Deist. Certainly not an Atheist or Agnostic, although Agnostic´s do hold that even if there is a divine being, he has no control over or vested interest in humanity. Although I must say, with all the candles and Tarot cards, perhaps you´re Wiccan?

Ben: I understand the various definitions of "miracle". I also understand that using the word next to *any given sports victory* isn´t necessarily the religious use of it and that using the word next to "Christmas" is directly indicative of the religious definition.

You fancy yourself a wordsmith and on that point I will happily agree, so given that, how would you expect your reader to take any other implication from your words? It´s really just a matter of context and I fear you may have let emotion distort your usually keen perception of such both when summarizing this story and when in response to Tara, you preemptively discredited further criticism of your words.

BB
 
  by: bbeljefe     12/29/2009 04:17 AM     
  BB  
 
"Although I must say, with all the candles and Tarot cards, perhaps you´re Wiccan?"

I really dread to call myself Wiccan even though I have called myself Pagan in the past and still often feel that in some broader sense I could hang my cloak up on that for permanent basis. By the way yes I do own a cloak, I made my own several years ago.

The family got me a really nice book that is for a solitary practitioner, I have been reading it a little at a time and while I do like some of the things in it, the author sadly died in 1993. The thing is that his book is actually more interesting and I´d go as far to say welcoming than many of the ´in´ Wiccans that hawk wares today.

As for what I will be when I finally grow up? I´m still undecided I guess. I do know one thing I do not want to deal with any organized religion and it seems to me that Wiccan churches are popping up in many places and many of them along with covens are starting to look to one person only..things that I am staying away from.
 
  by: TaraB     12/30/2009 12:20 AM     
  @TaraB  
 
I´m a pagan. That´s a good book that they gave you, but it is pretty dry reading. That author is best taken in small doses.

You don´t have to belong to a coven, it´s just that some people feel more comfortable doing so. Some people get lonely being a solitary. I recommend that new solitaries find a pagan yahoo group in their area, like ´pagansofmichigan´ or ´HLCWitches´.
 
  by: jbloodthorn   12/30/2009 04:53 AM     
  You´re a diest Tara.  
 
Now that that´s settled, you can enjoy life and social interaction without having to belong to some specific group or club.

Personally, I don´t like groups or clubs because they tend to me constructed of individuals with a narrow range of interests. I prefer gatherings of people of diversified interest.

Not only that, but I decided long ago that I should never lower myself to the level of belonging to any club that would allow the likes of me among its membership. ;)

BB
 
  by: bbeljefe     12/30/2009 08:05 AM     
  Thank you  
 
Jbloodthorn- Thank you very much for the information, I will look into them.

BB- Thank you and I won´t be leaving my house anytime soon.
 
  by: TaraB     12/31/2009 01:14 AM     
 
 
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