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01/31/2010 06:41 PM ID: 82697 Permalink   

How Muslim Invention Shaped The World

 

Most often when people discuss scientific milestones, the Western world is the one that comes to mind, yet, history has a different take on such knowledge, thanks to non-Western cultures which played a great part in shaping the world.

The omnipresence of Muslim culture has been around for many years. Their contribution to the scientific world has clearly shaped the current times as we live today. From toothbrushes to universities, Muslims were the first to introduce many things into our lives.

"There´s a hole in our knowledge, we leap frog from the Renaissance to the Greeks," Said Prof. Salim al-Hassani, who has put together a book entitled "1001 Inventions" which is currently in an exhibition at London´s Science Museum.

 
  Source: www.cnn.com  
    WebReporter: skcusswentrohs  Show Calling Card      
  Recommendation:  
ASSESS this news: BLOCK this news. Reason:
   
  44 Comments
  
  I watched a documentary...  
 
last year and this surprised me, because it was muslim engineers actually develop crankshafts and water turbines. It said in Wikipedia this was around the 11th century. But I thought from the documentary it was even earlier than this.
 
  by: captainJane     01/31/2010 08:34 PM     
  kind of old news to me  
 
before the Renaissance if some one in Europe wanted to find out something Historical, Mathematical, Medical... they´d always go to the "Arab texts"
 
  by: VermiciousG     02/01/2010 01:25 AM     
  This shouldn´t be surprising.  
 
Innovation can has occurred over time under all sorts of rule/religion. Although, I can´t help but think a lot of what is being attributed to Islam actually predates the religion and was merely created/invented by middle easterners.

Universities, for instance, have been around since B.C. times. They may have been formally structured in the middle east and by Islamics to look more akin to what they are today, but institutions of higher learning most certainly predate both Islam and Christianity.

BB
 
  by: bbeljefe     02/01/2010 01:48 AM     
  @bb  
 
That is true somewhat. For instance I was told in highschool that the Arabs invented algebra. Turns out it was invented by th Indians and only codified into algebra-specific texts by the Arabs.
 
  by: VermiciousG     02/01/2010 05:42 AM     
  Nowadays  
 
They invent the most cruel methods to kill or torture somebody. But the US is hard at work at matching them ;-)
 
  by: evilrat   02/01/2010 09:34 AM     
  @evilrat  
 
Your hate is out shinning your intelligence today! O wait nothing new there. SO the actions of a few in your little pathetic mind is justified to condemn several billion people, Hmmm Lets see, in your mind the actions of few radical raciest in America means that all Americans are raciest, or the Actions of Nazi means that "THE WEST" are all Nazi. By the way you might think again, the most cruel methods of torture was applied by us Americans in a systematic way across the world. And Killing, well lets see 3.5 million killed in the illegal war in Iraq, supposedly 2 million have been killed in Afghanistan. Thousands have been killed in Pakistan and the list goes on, All this for the action of a few terroriests and most of them were not even from the country that we are at war with. No country declared war on us and 911 was the action of terrorist and we went to war with lets see How many countries. So before you condemn any group of people consider that your hate could out shine your pathetic intelligence. It doesn´t matter if you speak of Jews, Christians, Muslims, Hindus, ect ect ect or non religious groups.
 
  by: justus4all   02/01/2010 10:23 AM     
  Worthless Propaganda  
 
These people will go to extreme lengths in their efforts to ´redeem´ Islam, in order to turn it into something worthy of the 21th century.

Many of these claims (if not outright lies) have already been invalidated and dismissed.

The basic premise alone of attributing scientific discoveries to a religion is ridiculous unto itself. Many of these so-called ´Muslim scientists´ were:

1.) Not even Muslim, they were Persians, Greeks, Jews, etc. -- individuals of conquered territories.

2.) And when they were Muslim adherents; they were knee-deep in religious/political power struggles. Many of them finding a very ´unfortunate´ fate -- e.g. after being declared a heretic.

3.) Using plundered knowledge from conquered territories. (Which would explain why European scholars used a number of Arab texts, as they contained ancient knowledge from Greeks, Egyptians, etc.

And where were the technological adaptations of these scientific principles anyway?

If we are to believe these Muslim ideologues and Left-leaning Muslim apologists, the ´Muslim world´ would have been a scientific wonderland, where lead turns to gold at the flick of a wrist.

Enjoy:

http://www.wikiislam.com/...
 
  by: Malefice   02/01/2010 12:19 PM     
  Malefice nailed it for me  
 
That´s the impression I was under. In a nutshell, advances from the Muslim world came mostly from assimilation rather than their own research

On top of that, I also thought that most Muslim Scholars were religious rather than academic. Muslim Academic Scholars historically were treated as heretics

More than happy to be proven wrong though (in fact, someone please do).

Regards

The Chimp
 
  by: spacechimp     02/01/2010 01:16 PM     
  @male  
 
Are you done with your load of pompous, sanctimonious drivel. This work is being displayed at a London´s Science Museum. We have been watching this in documentaries and it hs been known for ages.

While some cultures were bathing in perfumes, my ancestors were rolling with the pigs and smelling like one.

And before you continue splish splashing, this is what I read from your wiki-weaklink.
"which in fact either existed in pre-Islamic eras, were invented by other cultures, or both."

Which one of the above proves anything, or nothing? Your wiki-weaklink calls them "apologists", as do all other pompous haters with their borrowed plague like semantics, while the construction of their base is nothing but yet another fabrication of nullification and nothing original.

If this is your way of showing your hate "were invented by other cultures, or both" I think you have royally failed. Because, or both still gives them credit.

I also think other cultures, does not mean Arabs equal Muslims, or Islam.

Now go call your other partner suffering from the "apologist" plague and bring out your best. Unless if you have better pompous anecdote.
 
  by: skcusswentrohs     02/01/2010 03:08 PM     
  WOW  
 
Nice to see how the Christians typical "Holier then thou" gets all fired up. The age old my Religion is better then your Religion pissing contest.
If you want to compare apples to apples start at the "Holy Roman Empire" and what was done by Christians. Then look at the Crusades. How about the Witch hunts where Women were raped, tortured, and brutally murdered. All that done by "Men of God". And on and on.
The Muslim civilization is what,(without looking it up) thousands of years older then Western or even the old Eastern Christian civilization...of course you´re going to be able to trace stuff back to them. Hell. If you look at how every city in the world is designed and supported you can trace that back to the old Pagan Roman Empire...
 
  by: Mavkain   02/01/2010 03:48 PM     
  Common sense...  
 
The best speech is that embodied in the Book of Allah, and the best guidance is the guidance given by Muhammad. The most evil affairs are their innovations; and every innovation is an error.

The Prophet said, If anyone introduces an innovation in the religion, he will be responsible for it. (Good or bad). If anyone introduces an innovation or gives shelter to a man who introduces an innovation (in the religion) he is cursed by Allah, by His angels and by all the people.

If somebody innovates something which is not in harmony with the principles of our religion, that thing is rejected.

Avoid novelties, for every novelty is an innovation, and every innovation is an error.

Whoever sits with the people of innovation is worse than them.

Whoever sits with a person of innovation has not been given wisdom.

That is why the Messenger of Allah said that one learned man is more difficult for Satan than a thousand worshipers.

.......................................

what does common sense say to you when you are practicing innovation under such a system? I would say history would show it. I say, let´s look up these inventors by name and find how they died? If they died honored for their accomplishments and at peace, then Islam did shape the world by invention/scientific innovation.
 
  by: mexicanrevolution   02/01/2010 03:53 PM     
  @Malefice  
 
Amazing how someone can use a hate website to prove there hate.
I suppose you also use Mein Kampf as a reference material/bible to prove your point about inferiority of other group of people and religion.
So what makes you so different then a NAZI in your point just replace "Jews" with "Muslims" and you have the same argument of a Nazi
By the way Islam is not the only religion in the middle east.
@spacechimp Tisk tisk, your hate for a group of people/religion is outshining your intelligence. I would recommend you look at the URL carefully, it is not what you think it is
 
  by: justus4all   02/01/2010 04:12 PM     
  evolution  
 
<< Proverbs 12:2 >>


New American Standard Bible (©1995)
A good man will obtain favor from the LORD, But He will condemn a man who devises evil.
King James Bible
A good man obtaineth favour of the LORD: but a man of wicked devices will he condemn.

American King James Version
A good man obtains favor of the LORD: but a man of wicked devices will he condemn.

American Standard Version
A good man shall obtain favor of Jehovah; But a man of wicked devices will he condemn.

Douay-Rheims Bible
He that is good, shall draw grace from the Lord : but he that trusteth in his own devices doth wickedly.

Darby Bible Translation
A good man obtaineth favour of Jehovah; but a man of mischievous devices will he condemn.

English Revised Version
A good man shall obtain favour of the LORD: but a man of wicked devices will he condemn.

Webster´s Bible Translation
A good man obtaineth favor from the LORD: but a man of wicked devices he will condemn.

World English Bible
A good man shall obtain favor from Yahweh, but he will condemn a man of wicked devices.

Young´s Literal Translation
The good bringeth forth favour from Jehovah, And the man of wicked devices He condemneth.
King James Bible
A man shall be commended according to his wisdom: but he that is of a perverse heart shall be despised

PSSST By the way The Muslim holy book Quran is an extension of the Bible and the old Testements
 
  by: justus4all   02/01/2010 04:28 PM     
  @mexicanrevolution  
 
Above comment is for mexicanrevolution
 
  by: justus4all   02/01/2010 05:14 PM     
  @justus4all  
 
Funny but you could not be more wrong. You know nothing about me. In fact, i have traveled around the world and have friends of diverse religions backgrounds and nationalities. Including Muslims. I just returned to my country yesterday.
 
  by: evilrat   02/01/2010 05:26 PM     
  @Mackain and justus4all  
 
@Mackain

First off, Islam is not older than Christianity. Please see.

http://www.allaboutreligion.org/...

Origin of Islam: According to Secular History
The origin of Islam can be traced back to 7th century Saudi Arabia. Islam is thus the youngest of the great world religions. The prophet Muhammad (circa 570-632 A.D.) introduced Islam in 610 A.D. after experiencing what he claimed to be an angelic visitation. Muhammad dictated the Qur´an, the holy book of Islam, which Muslims believe to be the preexistent, perfect words of Allah.

Secondly, the times you refer to are called "The Dark Ages" for a reason.



Ok, before I go into this any further. Please note I´m not playing the "My God is better than Your God" game). For a start, aren´t they supposed to be the same God? Also, wars fought in the name of religion are simply 2 sides arguing over whose imaginary friend is the best.

However, I think before people start slinging mud, there are obviously 2 sides to this argument. I believe if you feel strong enough, it´s now up to you to go away and research your own arguments.

For example - Bathing.

Islamists believe: Muslims perfected the formula for Soap

Back argument is: Soap has been found in excavation of Babylon dating back to 2800BC as referenced:
"A soap-like material found in clay cylinders during the excavation of ancient Babylon is evidence that soap making was known as early as 2,800 BC. Inscriptions on the cylinders say that fats were boiled with ashes, which is a method of making soap, but do not refer to the purpose of the "soap." Such materials were later used as hair styling aids. Like the ancient Egyptians before them, daily bathing was an important event in the ancient Roman world and a common custom in Japan during the Middle Ages" - And it goes on

http://www.wikiislam.com/...

So, to support the Babylon argument:
http://en.wikipedia.org/...
http://www.pharmj.com/...
http://inventors.about.com/...

There´s certainly plenty of information out there supporting the existence of ancient soap in one form or another. I´m not going to do all the legwork for you but please feel free to make your own minds up. I just selected bathing because I was literally at that point on the WikiIslam page. Confirm or debunk the others as you see fit.




@justus4all

I believe I said: "More than happy to be proven wrong though (in fact, someone please do)." So with that in mind a "Tssk" and accusing me of Hate is a little harsh don´t you think? Besides, it´s not the first time I´ve read claims like this. My comment was posted before I followed the site link and was merely an unsubstantiated observation pieced together from many threads of random general knowledge. I was never going to sit here and "dig my heels in" over an argument about Islam without going away and doing some serious in-depth research.

To be honest though, there´s very little point arguing over religious beliefs with people who have "accepted (their) god into their hearts" Muslim or Christian alike. Personally I prefer to just live and let live and will leave it there :)


Kind Regards

The Chimp
 
  by: spacechimp     02/01/2010 05:32 PM     
  @evilrat  
 
I agree, I do not know you but I do see your post. Sorry if the truth hurts, Please accept my apology if your statement above was a sarcasm else accept the reality that you yourself are bound by the general consensus in the west to hate everything Muslim just as in the past the West hated the Jews and we all know the consequence of that. I my self am not religious but see the daily barrage of hate directed towards groups of minorities and specific religion say Muslims. I am trying to understand what is the difference between this particular hate and what NAZI preached, Have we learned anything from our past or are we going to repeat again? Then who will be next? Is this the best Humanity as a group can offer?
 
  by: justus4all   02/01/2010 05:39 PM     
  @spacechimp  
 
My case in point proven, You are taking http://www.wikiislam.com/... as the source of all information Islam, It is a hate website. Its sole purpose is to degrade Islam and Muslims. I am non religious and I can even see that. You are using that as the main source for your information. http://www.allaboutreligion.org/... is a Christian site (from a quick browsing) of course it will present Christian ideas in a better light and point out the flaws of every other religion. As myself having no specific faith I can see the propaganda from all religion about other religion including within the same religion as one can see the truth. (If Christianity is the only religion then why are there so many denotation in Christianity. If Muslims are correct then why there different sects in Islam) My point is not religion but the FACT US HUMANS USE ANYTHING AND EVERY THING TO DIVIDE OUR SELF AND PROPAGATE OUR HATE. I was hoping that as a specie we have evolved more thin this but it seems that our specie is hell bent for its own destruction. And if there is a god any god any religion then how could that GOD OR RELIGION allow soo much pain and death in its name.
 
  by: justus4all   02/01/2010 06:03 PM     
  @justus4all  
 
Yes i do not like Islam and i do not like most muslims. But that does not mean that i HATE them. I simply do not like the religion and most of their members. I have also muslim friends and i told them that i dont like their believes. They are ok with it and accept it. Islam for me is a backwards and inhumane religion with many nonsense rules. Second, i believe that muslims cause trouble as a group where ever they are. Name me any country with a large muslim population that does not have serious issues. Islam is simply not compatible with modern, civilized life.
 
  by: evilrat   02/01/2010 06:07 PM     
  I love it.  
 
If you don´t fall all over yourself in love with another culture or religion, you are deemed intolerant and accused of hatred and malice simply because you do not like it.
 
  by: gman   02/01/2010 06:39 PM     
  Real Christianity  
 
Is not a religion.
Man has made Christianity a religion.

Religion won´t get you to Heaven, only Christ will.
 
  by: C.O.G.   02/01/2010 07:13 PM     
  @ C.O.G.  
 
"Religion won´t get you to Heaven, only Christ will." - apparently there is also a stairway that only Led Zeppelin knows about.
 
  by: snowztorm29     02/01/2010 07:56 PM     
  @justus4all  
 
You´ve got to be joking... I normally don´t do this because it only ever starts a flame war but ok... Here we go




"My case in point proven, You are taking http://www.wikiislam.com/... as the source of all information Islam, It is a hate website."

How? I seem to have posted links to at least 3 other sites. I only used that page (not the whole site) as a base because it presents arguments to the top 20 claims. I then went off trying to substantiate its findings




"Its sole purpose is to degrade Islam and Muslims. I am non religious and I can even see that."

I´m not a religious person either. My posts are not biased one way or the other. I´ll even QUOTE MYSELF: "Please note I’m not playing the "My God is better than Your God" game. For a start, aren’t they supposed to be the same God? Also, wars fought in the name of religion are simply 2 sides arguing over whose imaginary friend is the best." - nuff said




"My point is not religion but the FACT US HUMANS USE ANYTHING AND EVERY THING TO DIVIDE OUR SELF AND PROPAGATE OUR HATE."

Ok, and my point is DON´T TAKE ANYTHING YOU READ FOR GRANTED AND GO DO YOUR OWN BLOODY RESEARCH. Your point is the problem exists, mine´s an observation geared towards dealing with the issue - Which is more practical? With that in mind you can start your research where ever you want. If the information is correct/incorrect you should be able to corroborate/Disprove it from sources elsewhere. Please tell me if I´m lying




"You are using that as the main source for your information. http://www.allaboutreligion.org/... is a Christian site (from a quick browsing) of course it will present Christian ideas in a better light and point out the flaws of every other religion."

It is also the first website to come up in Google when you search for "Islamic origins" (without the quotes), go-on try it! All I wanted was Islam’s Date Of Birth or have they got that wrong as well?! I think the difference between you and me is, you ignore a source of information if you spot the agenda of the author. Me, I´ll go elsewhere for confirmation. Information is information, it´s either right or wrong, but the really good thing about information is you can usually find more out the more you look into something.




"As myself having no specific faith I can see the propaganda from all religion about other religion including within the same religion as one can see the truth. (If Christianity is the only religion then why are there so many denotation in Christianity. If Muslims are correct then why there different sects in Islam)"

And if there was an answer to this there wouldn´t be a hundred flavours of the same religion now would there? It´s also known as interpretation.




"I was hoping that as a specie we have evolved more thin this but it seems that our specie is hell bent for its own destruction. And if there is a god any god any religion then how could that GOD OR RELIGION allow soo much pain and death in its name."

"God moves in mysterious ways". Don´t you just hate that argument? Personally I prefer "Sh*t Happens" and I´m also a realist. The second you have something I don´t, I want it. It´s just part of the human condition and neither you or I are going to change that. If you insist on trying, please by all means, I genuinely wish you the best of luck.






Please note, I will not answer anything further "off topic" within this thread. I´ve seen these type of posts go on far longer than they should. Please feel free to post, but don´t consider yourself victorious when I don´t reply :)

So to sum up:
Religion for the Religious
Always do some other reading


Kind Regards


The Chimp
 
  by: spacechimp     02/01/2010 07:56 PM     
  @Space  
 
Muslims will beg to differ. They know one thing that makes more sense than any other doctrine. 1st their acceptance of all prophets. 2nd, with this notion, they believe Humanity from its inception or creation, Islam has been passed on in small doses. Meaning it came through divined network of erudition whom we recognise as prophets.

These people, the likes of Moses, Abraham, Jesus, Mohammad etc.etc were messengers of the deity they call Allah. Those messengers did not come with a name for religion, this only happened once, and that is during the completion of the message what they call Quran.

Accordingly it contains messages from all other prophets, including Jesus, Moses and Abraham. Is Islam the first religion, according to this science of theology. I say it makes more sense. And I am a Son of a pastor. Just so you know before you assume I am Muslim.

I am a Humanist, not bound by any religion but humanity.

@Evilrat:
"Yes i do not like Islam and i do not like most Muslims. But that does not mean that i HATE them." Paradoxical Oxymoron. Let me guess you are also not racist because you have Arab friends, right? Did you ever wonder why they appear violent? Can you think of the last 100 years which back yard they probed and claimed theirs with a mighty force, can you name 3, or more current wars and why? Do you know, where was Tony Blair last week and doing what? Which he left the freaking building with people calling him murderer! Do you know why?

If you cant answer any of these questions, I would kindly ask you to take your blinders off. Just like Christianity is universal, so is Islam. There are Muslims from every corner of the World, not all wear Burkhas, not all are violent with/out cause. Now think of the last 100 years dont go too far. How many wars have been conducted in the name of Christianity, by Christians?
 
  by: skcusswentrohs     02/01/2010 07:58 PM     
  @skcusswentrohs  
 
Ok :)
 
  by: spacechimp     02/01/2010 08:11 PM     
  @spacechimp  
 
It seems we have some of the same thoughts but we are approaching it differentially. I was also lost within the barrage of daily propaganda towards Muslims until I saw Schindler´s List . I did some research on how most intelligent people within a society can be persuaded in a way that would blindly kill men women and children. I notice a pattern of hate in that society purposely propagated by there leaders. I see the same patterns now, in our case the news media is not helping. It doesn´t take much for a mob mentality to take control of an every day intelligent person to do horrendous things. I just cant believe that we as Human specie have not learned from our previous mistake.
From an argument perspective I respect your opinion and "You my friend win". If you are religious then please respect all living creatures including Humans because god your god any god created all living things and specifically for Human since we are told that we were created in God´s image. If you are realist/non religious then common sense and Logic dictates that propagation of our species is more prevalent then our self as individual as can be seen in the investments we make for our children and within our family.
 
  by: justus4all   02/01/2010 09:13 PM     
  alot of propaganda  
 
there are some inventions that completely are in error .. and the muslim law like alot of other religions was forbidden way back even to try and be in the sky like God there are many errors .. like check out greek music theory, thats who developed it .. not muslims .. this was all put together with careful structure designed to make the western civilizations accept the muslim (islamic world) .. alot of these things are forbidden in traditions, the very thought of being god like ..

Flying machine for example: the Muslim "inventor" only attempted to fly, putting some feathers on and attaching something that looked like wings. This is no invention! Moreover, the story is described 750 years later(!!) by the Moroccan historian Ahmed Mohammed al-Maqqari. No other known sources refer to the event! (source wikipedia). There are no designs of his "flying machine". Yet Mr. Hassani goes on to say that his designs "undoubtedly have been an inspiration" to none other than da Vinci.

Algebra was invented by folks in India long before Muslims ever appeared. The first hospitals were Greek--centuries before the muslims appeared. Even the Romans had dedicated hospitals. The earliest true hospitals were in India. Surgery was being performed 3500 years ago in Egypt--again LONG BEFORE ANY MUSLIMS. The oldest known surgical texts were discovered in India almost 3500 years ago. Toothbrushes from twigs were used in India for several millenia BEFORE MUSLIMS. The University of Constantinople was founded in 425 AD--LONG BEFORE MUSLIMS. Medicine, law and philosphy were practiced there. The word optics was DEFINED BY GREEKS--NOT MUSLIMS. In 300 BC, Euclid wrote a treatise called OPTICS. This is the most moronic piece of misinformation to come out of CNN in days.

bottom line .. if all this was true .. then how come the big gap in techonology? and how come all the primitiveness in their society??



 
  by: Key2000     02/01/2010 09:39 PM     
  @evilrat  
 
"Yes i do not like Islam and i do not like most muslims. But that does not mean that i HATE them. I simply do not like the religion and most of their members. "
Understood,
I bet that is exactly what every Germen thought of the Jews pre second world war hence the blind eye to the death camps. If you dislike a whole group of people based solely on the ideas of religion or skin color or national origin, they call that Bigotry and Racism just in case you didn’t know. I feel that most intelligent people around the world would consider it wrong and unethical. Also an FYI, you might consider looking into the Middle Eastern culture rather then getting your hate spoon fed by Fox and the likes of Hannady Limba and Beck. Cradle of civilization comes from that area. If you are Christian even your messiah Jesus is one of them, Jesus´ relatives and there descendents are more then likely Middle Easterners, they might have adopted Islam the fact remains there more then likely are some of his descendants/relatives there and you my friend dislike them. So is dislike a PC for openly acknowledging that you are a raciest?
 
  by: justus4all   02/01/2010 09:41 PM     
  @justus4all  
 
Well first i am a German, so maybe i have the "evil gene" in me. Second, i never watch Fox news as it is not shown in my country, we only get CNN int. And third, it is natural to be afraid of different things and people and i am a human. Yes, i find Islam scary and i don´t want anything to do with it, i also don´t want a mosque next to where i life (there is one) and i have prejudices. Does that mean i hate Muslims, or does it mean i want them dead? NO! It is the religion they have chosen and i accept it. But i don´t want them to force their believes and values on others and that is what they often do. I also dont want them to become to influent in the western world so that they can bring sharia law and other such elements of Islam in. I have had a very personal bad experience with Islam, i knew a young girl who killed herself because her parents did not allow her to stay with her non-islamic boyfriend. That and many other bad experiences with this religion has shaped me of course. But what is racist about it? Is a religion a race? No. So how is it racist. Your argument does not make that much sense when i think about it. And also, that you say i would have turned a blind eye on death camps is total nonsense, you know nothing about me, my grandparents fought the Nazis and my grandmother was in a concentration camp and tortured badly by them. Also i have friends who are jews, i have friends who are muslims and i have friends who believe in other things or are atheists.
 
  by: evilrat   02/01/2010 11:58 PM     
  @justus4all  
 
You´re a retard.

Anybody who credits a religion with inventions should go back to their church/mosque/synagogue am I missing anybody? And anybody who kills in the name of their god needs to be shot.

For the record, I hate all religions equally.
 
  by: greatwarrior1   02/02/2010 12:01 AM     
  @great, and story  
 
That´s funny, because I hate all people equally. Well, not really. But it IS the people which make religion corrupt and unsavory to some. Religion doesn´t make religion bad, but people sure have a knack for it.

Come to think it, the human race can take most things good and use it for their own evil, personal gain.

On a side note, and more directly on the topic at hand, I don´t care.
 
  by: Dayron   02/02/2010 12:40 AM     
  @evilrat  
 
"I bet that is exactly what every Germen thought of the Jews pre second world war hence the blind eye to the death camps. If you dislike a whole group of people based solely on the ideas of religion or skin color or national origin, they call that Bigotry and Racism " I did say bigotry, Also racism and bigotry come hand in hand. I completely understand your point but to dislike a whole community of people for the action of a few is immoral and illogical. I actually dislike the idea of religion but if society chooses that idea I do not have the right to condemn the entire society for it. If we as humans do not control our mob mentality the scenario of Nazi Germany could be repeated. By the way my wife is a second generation German American. The idea that Islam will take over your country is not based on reality. In Christianity it is our duty to make sure we spread the word and convert others but not in Muslim that I know off. Personally I don’t like the idea of any religion as I feel SOME of us have evolved beyond the need for mythology. As you being German then you should understand the consequence of dislike of others based solely on there religion hence the reference to Jews and Death Camps. Imagine if Einstein would have stayed in Germany, chances are that he would have been a victim of Nazi and we would have lost one of the greatest mind and that my friend is a consequence of disliking a group of people based solely on there average characteristics (religion, skin color, national origin you choose)
 
  by: justus4all   02/02/2010 02:08 AM     
  @greatwarrior1  
 
ADD????
Let me spell it out for you attention deficit disorder
Shiny object cluttered in your area, didn’t want to read my comments or couldn’t read? I do not like the idea of religion nor do I support any religious idea, my above comments were all about how we as humans love to hate and the consequences of hate. Please try reading or have some one else read and explain the article and my response above to you, slowly I may add, it seems you need it. Your lack of inelegance is shinning brightly through your hate as well. For the record, I never gave credit anywhere to any religion for any inventions. I am not out here defending Islam or defending Christianity. I am only responding to all the hate based solely on religion
Hmmmmm I am having doubts for any hope for humanity long term.
 
  by: justus4all   02/02/2010 02:23 AM     
  Golden Age  
 
It is unfair to call an invention ´islamic´ just because it was discovered within 100-200 years after islam started. At such early time, such inventions are only remnant of the momentum left by the empires (persian/roman) that the islamic armies destroyed and conquered.

For an invention to be truly ´islamic´, it has to have been a result of ´islamic traditions´. As in, once islam settles in, the Science increased, or at least remained the same.

Unfortunately for those in favor of islamic laws, the reality is that once islamic tradition ´settled´ on people, such people stopped producing new Science.

Also the number of scientists deemed ´islamic´ is to be counted on the fingers and even them, are mostly from the far reaches of the islamic ´openings - fotouhat´, like khadakestan and such.
 
  by: kmazzawi     02/02/2010 09:41 AM     
  Now  
 
they are rebelling from them? They hate the Western lifestyle.
 
  by: av8rdav   02/02/2010 10:44 AM     
  Geber  
 
Don´t have the time or patience for a religious debate today but I just wanted to throw my two pence in and remark of all of the wonderful advancements in chemistry and proto-chemistry that came out of the Arab world, such as much of the work attributed to Geber (or Jabir). It is in fact probably where the word "gibberish" gets it´s origin, due to the complex technical terminology employed by Geber and other proto-chemists at the time. Much of our scientific methodology comes from these early Arab scientists.
 
  by: spiggy   02/02/2010 05:19 PM     
  Muslims have invented plenty...  
 
Among those inventions are the "farmer´s goat IED", retail kiosk composed entirely of pirated DVD´s, and really good dental plans for those individuals who are going to be involved in America media propaghanda in the near future.

Muslim´s also invented a religion strikingly identical to Christianity, in all but the most important ways. =P So, they´re obviously not a very creative people. I´d give that one to maybe the Greeks or Egyptians.
 
  by: Dayron   02/02/2010 05:37 PM     
  @all  
 
What dose it matter what the Muslims have invented or what the Christians have invented. What really matters is what Inventions we truly have to show for as a human specie. Unfortunately it seems that these days there are more relevant and visible inventions that relate to death and destruction then there are for Survival of our specie for the long hall. And why are we having this discussion, Religion doesn´t invent anything except for falls promises and mythology. Scientist and general people invent, In the West there are lots of people who are not of Christian faith providing new technical advancement and new technology and in the East there are lots of folks not of Muslim faith providing new technical advancement and new technology , This discussion only proves that our society is more occupied with hate then any thing else.
It is us vs them mob mentality!!!! Sheeeeeshhhhhh GROW UP
I wonder the folks commenting here, who are full of hate, what they have done to further technical advancement or our society or our specie as a whole.
 
  by: justus4all   02/02/2010 08:19 PM     
  @just  
 
"In Christianity it is our duty to make sure we spread the word and convert others but not in Muslim that I know off."

What? Seriously? Am I misreading that? Are you saying that Muslims aren´t told that one of their goals is to convert others to their religion? Wha....?

Honestly, throughout all of this, I think you are just pissed at Christians. Is your dad a pastor and you are just rebelling? Hmm... You find someone who makes a comment that *you* say is purely Christian (DOWN WITH MUSLIMS) and you automatically jump the gun. What amazes me even more is the fact that evilrat clearly explained that he dislikes the religion and does not want any part of it but he will accept you if you are Muslim, yet you cry bigotry and racism.

In all of this, it is clear to everyone with a brain that knows religion has nothing to do with invention. In my opinion, if you build something: you built something. Oh wait, your part of that religion just4all(?) despises? Oh well, nice invention! .....Come on, seriously?

You can´t call me racist or bigot or anything cuz you know what? My white sister is Muslim, married an Arab (whom I 100% glad she found him). Her white friends are Muslim who also married arabs/africans/asians... wait there are more than just arabs? But your posts sayz otherwise: "If you dislike a whole group of people based solely on the ideas of religion or *skin color* or *national origin*, they call that Bigotry and Racism just in case you didn’t know." Little did you know that evilrat was German at that point... And you call racism? Now, does that mean I like Islam? Nah, honestly, I don´t want anything to do with it. I have been educated in Islam and honestly: it really does scare me. In my PoV that you will call wrong, Islam was developed for Arabs. It works for Arab countries. It works for a group of people with the same values and goals and all that good stuff. It just doesn´t work for me, it works for my sisters, but not me. I can´t tell you what it is, but it just doesn´t feel right to me...

So you tell me: are you going to call me racist because I don´t agree with the religion my sister chose? I am Christian, but I accept my sister and her arab husband completely in my heart even though she chose that dirty evil religion Islam. I respect her religion, in my Christian house, she uses my Christian bedroom to do her Muslim prayers. So does her Arab husband.. Oooh.

And how are you going to continue to call people who have religions "non-realists"? Do you think so fully of yourself to believe only you and your group of religion hating pals to be the only intelligent people on this Earth? That atheists are the only people who can see the truth?

You see, the beauty of religion and realists is that you can never know the truth. So you shouting across the world that your beliefs are the only truth, you have made yourself look like an idiot. There is a reason for the term "coexist" and there is a reason for the term "accept", and honestly, you do neither because you cannot accept other people´s beliefs.

I think the only people here with real credible evidence is BB and VG/Verm. In fact, it amazes me that there were any other posts after this one.
 
  by: nimira     02/03/2010 12:05 AM     
  @nimira  
 
guess you dint get my point!!!!

It isn´t about religion or non religion, it is about soo much hate on this forum, Hate for a group of people who are only bonded by a religion. Hate is hate, doesn´t matter if its based on religion, skin color, heritage, origin or for lack of faith. Case in point Your comment reflects hate as well!
First:
I spoke about hate not about religion or lack of religion when I commented to evilrat

evilrat´s comment
´"Yes i do not like Islam and i do not like most muslims. But that does not mean that i HATE them. I simply do not like the religion and most of their members. "

My response
"Understood,
I bet that is exactly what every Germen thought of the Jews pre second world war hence the blind eye to the death camps. If you dislike a whole group of people based solely on the ideas of religion or skin color or national origin, they call that Bigotry and Racism "
I stand behind what I said. If your definition of bigotry and racism is different then we don’t have a discussen. Hate is hate, irrelevant to any religion. I can see from evilrat´s profile that he is German hence stating what the consequence of hate in a mob mentality was. As well as here in America, one can see by the numbers of Native American that are remaining in the US.

Your Comment:
"In Christianity it is our duty to make sure we spread the word and convert others but not in Muslim that I know off."

What? Seriously? Am I misreading that? Are you saying that Muslims aren´t told that one of their goals is to convert others to their religion? Wha....?
Ever wondered how easily one can be persuaded by propaganda? Because you yourself are a victim of such. Proselytism in Islam is considered a sin.
Proselytism means act of converting some one to your way of belief or religion forced in some instance. In Christianity the Moors were given a chance to convert or die many were killed, in America the Native Americans were mostly hunted to extension and the remaining were force converted to Christianity, In Australia there were a force conversion to Christianity, In India there was force convertion to Christianity. Around the world there have been force conversion to Christianity. Muslim and Judaism there is no Force Conversion requirements that I am aware of. So Yes.
http://wiki.answers.com/...
I supose there are other points of your argument I can address but I wont. Only thing I can say there are lots of skeleton in every religions closet and most religion has that us vs them mentality. My argument is not about religion but about Human stupidity called hate CASE IN POINT. YOUR RESPONSE
 
  by: justus4all   02/03/2010 03:20 AM     
  @nimira  
 
Just one more thing to illustrate hate:
You stated
"So you tell me: are you going to call me racist because I don´t agree with the religion my sister chose? I am Christian, but I accept my sister and her arab husband completely in my heart even though she chose that dirty evil religion Islam. I respect her religion, in my Christian house, she uses my Christian bedroom to do her Muslim prayers. So does her Arab husband.. Oooh."

How dose one not have hate in there hart when one uses "dirty evil religion Islam" and "respect her religion" In the same sentence. Truly you don’t have respect for your sister or her religion.
From your comment it seams you are trying or pretending not to be raciest but it is visible. Racism comes in many forms it is not as clear cut as Black or White.
You stated
"Islam was developed for Arabs. It works for Arab countries. It works for a group of people with the same values and goals and all that good stuff. It just doesn´t work for me, "
That just oozes racism, not cus it doesn´t work for you, but the context you developed your statement to state your idea. First one has to think what is Arab countries or Arabs, Muslims are all over the world. You call yourself Christian, I think your religion would be ashamed of you with all that dislike for others.
Peace be with you brother
Peace be upon you brother
Peace be all over and around you brother
May Peace find its way in your hart for humanity Brother (and that’s a realist)
 
  by: justus4all   02/03/2010 03:41 AM     
  @justus4All  
 
"How dose one not have hate in there hart when one uses "dirty evil religion Islam" and "respect her religion" In the same sentence. Truly you don’t have respect for your sister or her religion.
From your comment it seams you are trying or pretending not to be raciest but it is visible. Racism comes in many forms it is not as clear cut as Black or White."

I am being sarcastic towards your views that as a Christian, I automatically assume Islam to be a ditry nasty religion. I know there are ´important´ (not to me) Christians that damn everyone who doesn´t do Christiany things, like the dude with Haiti. But, what I am trying to get you to understand is that not all Chistians hate people for their choice in religion. As far as I am concerned, Islam is right, just not for me. Christianity is right for me. Athiesm works for you, it is right for you. I do not hate you for being Athiest. I could care less if you claim a religion. I guess I am just frustrated that you think you are so right and that everyone should follow your beliefs when you made it seem like (to me) that you do not understand their beliefs.

´"Islam was developed for Arabs. It works for Arab countries. It works for a group of people with the same values and goals and all that good stuff. It just doesn´t work for me, "
That just oozes racism, not cus it doesn´t work for you, but the context you developed your statement to state your idea. First one has to think what is Arab countries or Arabs, Muslims are all over the world. You call yourself Christian, I think your religion would be ashamed of you with all that dislike for others.´

You know what? How many countries in this world hold Hinduism as their main and how many are Indians? (Wikipedia sayz 905 million out of 1billion live in the Republic of India) How many countries do Shamanism, or Buddhism? How far spread are those in great concentrations? Can you tell me that the Christian religion, as a religion, works for Arab countries? No, but you can tell me that Islam works perfectly with the way they live. How about Hindus? Seriously? You see the US and UK and Japan and China holding cows as sacred? Nope! But is it racist for me to say that Hindus works for people who live in India? I guess in your mind it does. Unlike you, I take the true definition of racism: to be able to distinguish between race. I do not hate Arabs, I do not hate Indians. I do not hate Germans, French, etc. So what are you going to say about Italians with Catholics? Or Mexicans? Spanish? Do you get what I am saying? Their culture allows for a certain religion to be prominent. We have seen time and time again that most Arab nations don´t really like Christainity. I am sure they hate it even more because of people like the Haiti guy (who I hate, btw, and hes white and Christian... ooooo) force their beliefs on them.

"Ever wondered how easily one can be persuaded by propaganda? Because you yourself are a victim of such. Proselytism in Islam is considered a sin. ..."

Every religion makes it a requirement, either upfront or behind the scenes to find other people to convert to share your beliefs. If you are seriously that stupid to think Islam is an exception then I feel sorry for you. I am sure they say it is a sin in the Koran, but seriously? I was bombarded by the Muslims my sister hangs around, so don´t tell me they aren´t trying to convert me.

"It isn´t about religion or non religion, it is about soo much hate on this forum, Hate for a group of people who are only bonded by a religion. Hate is hate, doesn´t matter if its based on religion, skin color, heritage, origin or for lack of faith. Case in point Your comment reflects hate as well!
First:
I spoke about hate not about religion or lack of religion when I commented to evilrat"

I am sorry, I reread your comments, and I apologize for jumping the gun. Just please understand that their are people in this world who do not agree and are sometimes afraid of a group of people with similar beliefs but are not being racist towards that group. I am just tired of people screaming racism and downing religions (all religions, well except scientology) and I guess you just hit that button that made me explode.
 
  by: nimira     02/03/2010 04:07 PM     
  @justus4all cont.  
 

´That just oozes racism, not cus it doesn´t work for you, but the context you developed your statement to state your idea. First one has to think what is Arab countries or Arabs, Muslims are all over the world. You call yourself Christian, I think your religion would be ashamed of you with all that dislike for others.´

BTW, how in the world did I say I disliked Muslims? I just said I didn´t want anything to do with Islam...ISLAM (a religion, not a person). At this point in my life, I do not want to kneel down every five hours to pray. I do not want to live by strict guidelines (many of which I should because they are common sense). But never did I say that I disliked Muslims in any way. You think I agree with what is happening in Iraq/Iran/Afghanistan and the many other wars/genocides that the US media doesn´t care about? It rips my heart out to know those people are living in terror everyday. And it hurts even more that our useless leader claimed it was done in the name of God. The other day when that woman bomber ran into a group of Muslim pilgrims and killed 84, my heart screamed for them. How in the world could anyone do that? I don´t look at the bomber as a Muslim, I saw her as "how could YOU do that to them-innocent people, and yourself?" not "how could a Muslim be so mean?"


Also, I understand your statement on Proselytism. I realise that Christians are not at all innocent, in history and modern times, in forcing their beliefs on other people in ways that are horrible. In my life, I have never forced anyone to do anything. I misread this comment in my last post and I just want you to know that I meant Muslims do try and convert you and are pretty adamant about doing so. Just like every religion, they do it because they want more people to share in their beliefs.

I completely agree with your last four lines, I wish everyone would get along and quit downing everyone else, whether out of hate or just misunderstanding. My favorite bumper sticker is the CoExist thing that is made out of all the religious symbols.
 
  by: nimira     02/03/2010 04:37 PM     
  But  
 
they still havn´t made the greatest thing of them all. COLORED SALT. THINK ABOUT ITZ IF WE HAZ COLLURED SALT WE WHOD BE INVI-INCI- umm... UNKILLABLE
 
  by: Torenso   02/05/2010 03:04 PM     
 
 
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