U.S. Considers Confronting China Over Currency ´Manipulation´
Several years ago, Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y. and Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C. co-authored a bill that would have put a 27.5% tariff on Chinese goods over China´s currency policies. They withdrew the bill, but another is planned.
Schumer said he plans to introduce a bill that tries to stop China´s "manipulation" of its currency, saying that there is more consensus on the issue than ever before. President Obama says China should move to a "market-oriented" exchange range.
His administration has about a month to decide whether to formally label China as a currency manipulator in a Treasury report. Many lawmakers say China´s currency is undervalued by up to 40 percent, giving its companies an unfair advantage.
Not so fast. While China may own much of our debt, we are the largest consumer of Chinese goods, up to $2.9 trillion by 2012. We stop buying their goods, they might have some trouble giving us the monetary finger.
The last thing a creditor wants is to collect all he´s owed at once, because then he can´t earn any more interest. China´s self-interest is not only to keep the U.S. paying off debt for centuries to come, it´s also, ironically enough, to allow the U.S. to take the steps to become more economically healthy, at least within reason.
Remember, the U.S. is still the largest single-nation economy in the world -- the second-largest, Japan, is smaller than the U.S. by nearly $10 trillion per year. The last thing China wants to do is mess with its wealthiest customer.
i hope you guys are both aware that by 2020-2025, china will be the global economic powerhouse... and that was determined BEFORE the recession.
in short, the US is becomming economically less significant every year...
which should be evident just looking at your own country, if not the progress of the rest of the world
and FYI, this is just american sabre rattling, in turn of china (and many other countries) being pissed off at the instability of the US dollar (as they SHOULD be holding over 1.2 trillion in US dollar reserves), or in short devaluating their dollar, and threating to replace the US dollar with an international monetary currency as a result... and if that happened it would be the collapse of america as people know it, because one of the first things that will go is oil being traded in US dollars (which many countries are ALREADY against; and this was the real reason iraq was invaded, saddam wanted to switch to the more stable euro), which will cost the US immensely as they´ll have one less artifical pillar supporting their dollar... but no-one is complaining about this.
the US doesn´t care about foreign currency manipulation... for instance whose whining about canada DELIBERATELY undervaluing its dollar to be worth less than the american dollar, but no-one cares about that.
and no ben its not in china´s best intrest to have the US keep paying them over as long a peroid as possible, esspecially not when they´re predicting the collapse of the US dollar... because then they´ll be holding $1.2 trillion in worthless paper/currency.... no, they´re going to want their money back at some point, and they wont (and increasingly already don´t) want it in US dollars, hence the push to an international currency.
the only "intrest" china has in that debt is for use as an economic weapon; and they have said as much by calling it their nuclear option... as a rest them holding that debt is really in no-ones intrest except theirs IF they plan use it for leverage or an economic weapon; which it would be if they dumped all their US dollars onto the market at once, and moreover the US would be economically broken for quite some time as a result of this even in good times, quite possibly not ever completely recovering completely from it (not in a reasonable peroid of time anyways)... much less in a deep recession (realistically a light to moderate moderate depression).
"Remember, the U.S. is still the largest single-nation economy in the world"
and remember HOW they did that... by war and energy industry (which aren´t entirely unrelated), and military enoforcement of their empire... contrary to what many people think the US did become the economic powerhouse they have been by making good products, or having a vibrant economy (no.. thats how china did it, thats how india is doing it)... no, rather they got that way by bombing virtually anyone that had the capacity to compete with them, overthrowing leaders that wont co-operate with them (which often would economically and socially destroy their countries)...
american´s give america WAY too much credit for their importance to the world.... as if somehow it would collapse without them (lol).
China sucks and everyone knows that. Only time I even talk about China is when I go down to main street and order from the chinese restaurant and see those funny posters on the wall with the people in the funny boats not eating any chinese food either, ironic?
china hardly sucks... and more importantly they are on the verge of becomming an economic superpower; within 15 years they will be the largest global economic superpower, and much sooner if the US (and the west) doesn´t recover from this economic catastrophe soon, or succumb to hyperinflation, or have their debt holders drop their reserves and call in their war bonds.
and FYI, western chinese-food isn´t the same as chinese chinese-food, for once its much healthier.
so no its not really ironic to people who aren´t ignorant.
Chinese people have no innovation or imagination. They are mindless and soulless robots working hard for their dear dictator. Everything China manufactures must first be designed in A western country. They have no capability to designed complex microprocessors and must mimic and steal from their neighbors. I was watching a show on American highways and I guess the Chinese decided to copy our highway system right down to each individual road sign.
I have a friend who´s worked with the Chinese medical industry before. They are extremely heavy on stealing equipment from the west that they´ve been loaned, by refusing to return it and then claiming industrial sabotage on anyone who comes to try to recover the equipment through legal channels in China. The government backs up their claim since the government and the businesses are the same economic entity, either by communism or through copious amounts of bribery.
pull your head out of your ass... i garuantee you used chinese INVENTIONS daily...
ever used paper (including paper money; they invented that too)... ever read anything in print, ever used a compass used anything that did, and gunpowder.. and hence anything in histopry that use ANY of those things is inherently based on chinese invention.
i garuantee america (nor the west in general) hasn´t invented anything comparable in global importance to ANY of those invention, which are refered to as "the four great invention of ancient china".
as if roads and road signs are american inventions... oh wait the roman empire were using both... imagine that.
and FYI, the american highway system was intended for MILITARY use, not civillian use, the chinese system on the other hand was explicity for the purpose of accomedating their population...
"They are mindless and soulless robots working hard for their dear dictator."
and evidently so are you... and morover you can´t tell the difference between the chinese and north koreans, so you can add ignorant to mindless and "soulless".
its amazing how much ignorance, hatred and racism (against agianst in general but esspecially the chinese) there is regarding china.
Old inventions are irrelevant. That´s like saying the middle east is still a beacon of education.
Anyway all of the eastern Asian countries started out building and copying our stuff. Especially Japan and South Korea. Now that they´ve advanced economically they are designing their own products that are ahead of some of their American counterparts.
"Old inventions are irrelevant. That´s like saying the middle east is still a beacon of education."
do you still use paper?, for anything... i´m sure you do...
are compasses still used?, of course they are... hell alot of watches have them built in.
ever read anything in print; a newspaper, a book, magazine?, most people do or have.
gunpowder, hell modern militaries STILL use gunpowder, something the chinese invented 1100 years before europe.
"That´s like saying the middle east is still a beacon of education.´
indeed that has changed, but thats was long before most modern countries were founded... since that can shifted to europe and more recently parts of asia
so no, its hardly irrelevant. and thats what they are called the four great invemntions of ancient china... because they ARE still relevent today; hence chinese invention even from two millenia ago IS still relevent.
heres a recent chinese invention that could dramatically change how wind power is looked at: http://news.xinhuanet.com/...
"Anyway all of the eastern Asian countries started out building and copying our stuff"
and the car copied the horse and buggy, which copied the charoit... its a natural progression...
but the west (and esspecially newer countries like canada and the US) certianly didn`t get to where they are now without countries like those in the middle east, and the far east.
Most stuff that americans consider american inventions are really all german inventions. It was all stolen from us in WW2 and many german scientists moved or fled to the US before, during and after the war. Even Einstein was a german! We invented book printing, spring clocks, the computer, the aircraft, the automobile, the phone, The TV, diesel engines, Four-stroke engines, gramophone, microphone, x-rays, electromagnetic waves. the thermometer, dynamo generator, refrigerators, aspirin, modern rockets, running shoe, pregnancy test, electron microscope, MP3, and on and on and on... No country can compare to germany regarding inventions. I find it always funny that americans dont know about that, obama even claimed the car was an US invetion by ford which is wrong.
I said western countries. Not the USA. But if you want to play the invention game their is thing I think its called the internet. But I doubt you use that.
A better word would be ´innovations´, rather than inventions -- most things in our world have already been invented in some form or another, the game now is to refine and improve upon those ideas.
and yet your the one that think the chinese have "no innovation or imagination" and that "They are mindless and soulless robots working hard for their dear dictator."... proving you can´t distinguish asian nationalities apart even when you know the name of their nationality; dear leader is north korea´s kim jong-il.
and FYI, you can do the same thing for china... which i´m sure you haven´t... because if you did you might realize how assine your comments were.
and just how many of those invention would the US have had if they had to start virtually from scratch (which is where countries like china and india started from) and have had to work under oppression for HUNDREDS of years of... china is only a recently independant country, as a result the french´s occupation of china stiffled their invention and innovation.
and also btw aamny invention that american is credited for are patented by other countries... for example probably one of the US´s most significant invention, the transistor is a canadian idea what was patented in 1925, and 9 years later in germany, then 13 years later it was invented made in the US, same forthe airplane basically, MANY were made before the wright brothere plane which is credited as being the first airplane which it wasn´t, apparentl;y even the ancient greek from 400BCE were working on flight which would later become of the basis for the da vinci flying machine and/or Abbas Ibn Firnas´ flying machine would would become the inspiration for modern heavier than air flight... i think you´ll find thats the case in many instances.
not to take anything away from genuine US invention but nor does that nor should it take away from chinese invention (and innovation), which is EXACTLY whats you did by making those comments about them.
@evilrat
indeed, that was all part of operation paperclip
P.S. i can live in a world without beer, but i can´t live in a world where the only beer is that watered down american stuff, even canadian beer is only moderately better, german beer is the only beer worth drinking.... the only north american beer i can stand is "black bull" (which they weakened by 3% since i drank it; used to be 10% its now 7% i think) and corona (mexican beer; great with a slice of lime).
"China sucks and everyone knows that. Only time I even talk about China is when I go down to main street and order from the chinese restaurant and see those funny posters on the wall with the people in the funny boats not eating any chinese food either, ironic" -Wow, what a moron. Quote of the day right there. I´m going to stop you and let you know that what you said is moronic and a poor taste.
@Steme "Chinese people have no innovation or imagination. They are mindless and soulless robots working hard for their dear dictator. Everything China manufactures must first be designed in A western country. They have no capability to designed complex microprocessors and must mimic and steal from their neighbors. I was watching a show on American highways and I guess the Chinese decided to copy our highway system right down to each individual road sign."
Yeah, Steme, as you are saying all "Chinese people", I´m going to say that´s a pretty racist thing to say. TO me it sounds like your projecting how you feel on others. People of Asian decent are fully capable of doing anything that a person of a western country can do, and some times they do it better!
@Velger "I have a friend who´s worked with the Chinese medical industry before. They are extremely heavy on stealing equipment from the west that they´ve been loaned, by refusing to return it and then claiming industrial sabotage on anyone who comes to try to recover the equipment through legal channels in China. The government backs up their claim since the government and the businesses are the same economic entity, either by communism or through copious amounts of bribery"
Then I recommend your friend post about what happened to them not you! I appreciate your story, but unless you work in that industry and have a deent understanding of how international medical industries operate it is unfair to generalize a company let alone an entire country.
@evilrat
Anyone can do anything, I could do some research and I bet I could have a solid argument. But its great to see people who are into history and have that information on hand. I also find it is funny when people don´t know things......not But I get you humor lol, some people just aren´t as fortunate as others.
I was comparing modern society. It´s pretty irrelevant today that someone that likely doesn´t have any ancestors still living invented paper in China. The fact that we´re using it now is irrelevant. (I´m a papyrus fan anyway)
I´m more concerned about what the current population is doing to better society. If they have the economic capacity to invent things I´m pretty sure that they will; just like in Japan and South Korea.
When my dad was living in Japan in the early 80´s he came back saying the exact thing I´m hearing on this board. That they did nothing but copy our technology and didn´t innovate. But now anyone can see where they are. I think of it as a bit of foreboding.
I laugh every time you comment, yes they invented a bunch of everyday stuff , but look at the other fact of china , everything they make breaks within 1 week of use , so picture this , here is the war between china and the usa over the debt in 15 years , RAWR were china we invade....1 week later, This is cnn news report with a breaking news report , china´s tanks have fallen apart , airplanes are falling from the sky.....guess it was made in china also.
Your computer was made in China. How is it you are still typing. By your logic shouldn´t you have fallen apart by now?
Blanket generalisation logic fails everytime. I simply can´t believe the pure idiocy of those that continue to use them as the basis of their arguments.
it Doesn´t matter who invented what, it still was invented by Humans..
so, Humans are good. anyhow, this is about the US thinking of blaming China to use a corrupt system to get an unfair economical psoition on the world market, we should discuss that.
It doesn´t matter how much the US ows China, things should be fair, and the UN should look into this matter ASAP.
"I was comparing modern society. It´s pretty irrelevant today that someone that likely doesn´t have any ancestors still living invented paper in China. The fact that we´re using it now is irrelevant. (I´m a papyrus fan anyway)"
modern invetnion or not the fact that they are still used negates them being irrelevent.
"I´m more concerned about what the current population is doing to better society. If they have the economic capacity to invent things I´m pretty sure that they will; just like in Japan and South Korea."
they haver maglev wind turbine... look them up... they can increase penergy production capacity by 40% by only needing 1.5 meter per second winds, as upposed to about 5 meters per second, via using a frictionless (near frictionless more than likely to be accurate) magnetic motor.
the fact you don´t hear about it don´t mean it hasn´t occured.
"When my dad was living in Japan in the early 80´s he came back saying the exact thing I´m hearing on this board. That they did nothing but copy our technology and didn´t innovate"
so your carrying omn your father´s ignorance rather than educating youerself and accepting the inventions of other countries, which you probably don´t like to begin with (as has been the case of most peopl that have been critical of china in this topic).
FYI, tell you father to quit using chinese inventions if he´s thinks so poorly of them, same to you and good luck living without chinese invention and innovation thats are so "irrelevent" to you.
@daxersic
"I laugh every time you comment, yes they invented a bunch of everyday stuff , but look at the other fact of china , everything they make breaks within 1 week of use "
they invented or invented the basis for much of the the modern world uses today (the same is true of india and the middle east and some parts of north africa like eygpt)
my computer was made in china and has been on 24 hours a day for 2-3 years... so don´t peddle that "everything made in china breaks" bulls***... because thats what it it ... BULLS***.
my HD webcam is also top of the line and guess what its made in china too.
my american weight digital scale is great, accurate to 0.05g, guess what... made in china.
and btw that comparison to north american good was only true 30 years or more ago. its NEVER been true in my lifetime (i was born in 1985).
" here is the war between china and the usa over the debt in 15 years , RAWR were china we invade....1 week later, This is cnn news report with a breaking news report , china´s tanks have fallen apart , airplanes are falling from the sky.....guess it was made in china also."
yes because that happened so much already...LMAO i counted about 6 incidences in history of chinese made airplanes crashes, 2 of which collided which each other (i think in the 70´s)... there are AT LEAST 168 incidences of airplane crashes by boeing alone.
chinese tanks are incredibly well built and are about as secretive in their special features (for instance the armor is known on the m1 abrams but the thickness distrubution isn´t known, whereas the thickness of the chinese armor IS known [up to 20-30% thicker in the thickest areas than the m1-abrams] but the composition isn´t known, and uses the same caliber main turret and machines gun)
and... for 1) china isn´t a war mongering nation (like certian other ones are), hell they even have a peaceful rise policy.
for 2) china has a amazingly modernizing military... but you´re probably still thinking of china in a pre-1980´s capacity as most westerners ignorantly do... but then most of them don;´t even know the military or technological capacity of china in the 60´s and 70´s, much less the 80´s or current time.
so by all means feel free to laugh at me, just know that anyone that knows what they´re talking about will be laughing at your ignorant comments.
"It doesn´t matter how much the US ows China, things should be fair, and the UN should look into this matter ASAP."
is it fair that the US dollar is artifically propped by being used as the current global currency, as its the primary currency used to trade internationally with...
but the US wont be confronting the US over that.
and FYI nations have the RIGHT to regulate the value of their currency, the fact thsi is even considered an issue show the US intent to control the world; in this cases economically... by imposing restriction on the one country expected to overtake them as the global economic supoer power in 2 decades (i predict 10-15 years rather than 20 or more); hence the sabre rattling of the US.
the US has no right to be pissed off by this because its every nations right to regulate their money and thusly in turn regulates its value; esspecially since the US is the single biggest manipulator of currency by artifically propping up their dollar, and even backing their dollar by military force (like when saddam was intended to switch to the euro for trading oil, which many nations wanto to do, and the US s***-lists all of those countries because they are rejecting the american empire by rejecting their dollar; namely because of instability of the dollar)
yreulogy - sorry but almost everything on my computer is made in japan , the one thing that is made in china is the video card which i may let you know that i have had to replace about 3-4 times in the last 2 years , the rest of my system has yet to have any issues(aside from needing more memory for stuff)
Havoc- I agree that china is not war mongering , but look at the simple fact that we are. America always puts its nose into everyone elses business whether it involves us or not , and then if we do want to do something about it , we have s*** in position within 24 hours of first warning, its bound to start a war with someone eventually.
Yes china´s tanks are cool , but w/e , china openly shows there technoligy to there people pretty much and most the world.
HOWEVER, the US is very secretive with about 80% of everything military wise that we have , we have the most mobile military around.
Aside from that , coming from a family that has airforce/marines and army all through out it with about 60% of them being in top secret sections of the military , I know for a fact that the m1abrams is pretty much a sideshow to show that we have something.
About everything i get that is chinese made like i said before , usually breaks easily, not saying it breaks within a week but it breaks really easy compaired to the american made stuff that i still have handed down from my dad and my uncle which i will most likely still hand down to my kids.
So far from my experience ( not counting others) I have seen less and less stuff being produced in america that is actually quality stuff and more cheap crap being produced and sent here from china, i used to not have to replace things on a weekly basis , now that almost 80% of the market is made up of a bunch of stuff that is pretty much ment to break, why would anyone care if we gave china the bird and told them to f off we dont owe you crap.
"Yes china´s tanks are cool , but w/e , china openly shows there technoligy to there people pretty much and most the world."
most countries do... and conversely most country also have many secretive facets to their military.
and i have no doubt that the US can trump the m1-ambrams.
"not saying it breaks within a week but it breaks really easy compaired to the american made stuff that i still have handed down from my dad and my uncle which i will most likely still hand down to my kids."
but thats the key... from your dad and uncle... probably back in their day... back then yes american made was something to be proud of... now americans made might as well say made in china (esspecially since most products made by american companies are chinese).
things made before 1980 were quite good... ever since then there´s been a decline in quality in the US and canada, probably because workers are increasingly paid less to do more.
and i´m all for producing thing in our respective countries, but i have no problem with chinese goods, until you get into about double the price range on the higher end products the chinese good are every bit as good, and again i have many chinese products including my entire computer set-up and truth bee told i´ve had more canadian and american products break then chinese products, though they were different kinds of products.
and in general nothing is built as durable as it used to be... durability isn´t cost effective... plus replacements mean more profits... ever wonder why north american cars break down so often (they didn´t used to before the 80´s), its because they´re made to break, they count on it happening... not because they´re trying to produce a crappy product (that´s incidental), but because its more cost effective to produce them that way, and more profitable to them to make replacements rather than a car, which barring an accident, may never need replacements (other than filters and such).
on another note @ the people that think we are in a recession.
WE ARE NOT.
I lost a job in mortgage , and within a week i was able to obtain 3 job offers and i took 1 of them at a wage of 15 per hour , its not hard to get off your lazy butts and start working , these people at the unemployment lines are wasting there time , they need to be out looking for jobs , my 17 yr old found a job within 2 days of just LOOKING , i keep seeing people at the unemployment office instead of out and about taking the bus and looking for a job , stop blaming everyone else and just go do it.
You want this economy to rise well rise up off your butt and do it. The more people spending money is the more jobs available and it also means the more in demand. My brother sat on his butt for 2 years complaining he couldnt get a job after losing it , i come to realize he just aint looking just like 80% of the unemployed.
If we dont start showing we want to improve then theres no point in complaining that we are in this so called recession.
Perhaps you were unaware of the interesting tidbit, but the term "Made in ......" is amongst the biggest misnomers ever invented. Just because a product has been labelled "Made in Japan" does not mean it was produced in Japan, it simply means the product was assembled together in Japan. In fact, I can assure you that 80% of your vaunted "Made in Japan" computer was ´made somewhere else´ and a significant portion of that ´somewhere else´ was produced in China.
Were the wirings made in Japan? How about the copper cables? The plastic cooling fans perhaps? Metallic tower? Individual screws holding the entire construct together?
The fact of the matter is Japanese production and labour costs are exhorbitantly high. Unless you bought your standard line dual core computer for in excess of US$3000 (and that does not include all the other expensive peripherals) there is no way you can claim said computer was made purely in Japan.
BTW, check your keyboard/mouse. If they are labelled "Made in China" well you shouldn´t even be here on this thread. If "Made in Japan" well....... we all know what that means too.
I did pay 4800 for my system tyvm , i got 3 t hard drives , just changed to quadcore that i had specially ordered from japan, im very selective on what i want on my system , aside from that my system makes the blackbird from hp look like a joke. I love having it even tho im sure i will never really need to use it overclocked. Although i have topped it out a few times on just the video card because well sad to say i have yet to have a videocard that can keep up with the rest of my computer , so it may not be the video card being made by china´s fault , it just might be that someone needs to make a better video card that can handle playing my 10 eve accounts.
